What is a the bitter truth for men about dating over 30

Head-Language-2977 · 2023-12-13T17:44:47+00:00

(43M) I purposely skipped your description so I can give an unbiased opinion to your question. Dating gets slightly better for men, but it’s still not very good. If a man wasn’t attractive to women in his 20s, he’ll still be unattractive in his 30s. The reason dating gets easier for him is definitely NOT because he’s getting more attractive.

The reality is he’ll begin to attract women who are deciding looks matter less to them as they get older. So a man may have more options, but lust and passion will not be included with those options.

Anecdotal evidence, you may notice men complain on other dating subs that most of their dates feel like job interviews. That perception is accurate. Women are more likely to give average-looking men chances, and these women are literally putting in effort to search for reasons to be attracted to these men.

A last comment on hookups. As a divorced dad, I thought there would be lots of divorced moms who were too busy to date seriously and would be cool with a FWB. Holy shit was I wrong. As an average-looking man I’m finding most divorced moms are even more picky with who they have sex with or date with their limited free time. Just like in our 20s, I think most men will only get to choose between an LTR or nothing.

DJBurpz · 2023-12-13T19:23:54+00:00

There is some truth to what you're saying, and some inaccuracies. I used to feel like you did when I was in my early 20's - hopeless, no woman would like me, ect.

I laid a foundation down in my 20's that helped me become more secure in my 30's. I went to college, worked to get a career, all that. Now I'm in my 30's and I make around 60k a year after taxes and deductions (almost 100k pre-tax/deductions) and I own a house, I'm in the best shape of my life.

Shortly after turning 30 I stopped caring about women. Ironically, I can't find a woman that makes me say to myself "my life would be better with her in it". I'd rather be single and do whatever I want. I haven't found a woman that brings enough value to my life to want her permanently in it.

I like my life now because I spent my 20's working to get better and build a life I want. I no longer require the validation of women, and I think that's what red-pillers say when they say "it gets better". It gets better because if you spent the time building yourself then female validation no longer matters to you and, paradoxically, this makes women more interested in you.

AcephalicDude · 2023-12-13T17:19:48+00:00

I don't agree with redpillers on much, but I would actually agree with the idea that your 30's are almost always going to be much better than your 20's. People who have all of their shit together in their 20's are the exceptions, not the rule. If you keep at it, I am sure that you will find things fall into place for you.

SilentFroggy · 2023-12-13T18:18:27+00:00

You won’t be more desirable. You just have more resources to pay.

The guys who are desirable are the ones women simp for.

SteveSan82 · 2023-12-13T17:23:53+00:00

Dating was better in my 30s than 20s. My best year was 41 years old though

63daddy · 2023-12-13T18:34:18+00:00

It gets harder as you get older but early 30s were still pretty good for me. At that age, I had been in a decent job for a while, had decent place, etc. There were still a lot of mid to late 20s never married women.

As I entered my late 30s, most single women were divorced, usually with young children, often bitter at men due to their divorce, often with no good job looking for a guy to support them and their child or children. It only gets worse from there on.

While the odds may get worse with time, there are always exceptions. Not long ago I started a relationship that is very fulfilling, but finding her was like finding a needle in a haystack.

You can fixate on how biased or hard dating is, or you can focus on what it takes to find someone despite the challenges. The choice is yours and there’s nothing wrong with taking a break from dating and enjoying what independence has to offer.

One thing I would say is never feel pressured to marry the wrong person because you feel you are on the clock and running out of time. Far better to be unmarried than in a crappy marriage in my opinion.

Slipthe · 2023-12-13T17:20:19+00:00

Idk most of your cohorts will be married by the time they are 30. So you are getting people who held out or were unsuccessful.

AnhedonicBag · 2023-12-13T19:05:51+00:00

if you weren't a tall lean badboy type, you will unfortunately be settled for and you will have to bring finances to the table.

KayRay1994 · 2023-12-13T17:32:13+00:00

Is it mediocre? let’s put it this way, at their best, single women in their 30s are far more self aware, mature, understanding and compassionate (of course, at their worst theyre… yikes). Add to this that people are getting married and maturing a bit older than before, so women in their early 30s in particular can still be far better than “mediocre” - we need to stop thinking of people (men and women, cause this very much applies to men with this mindset) who either got a later start, went through a massive change or who live an entirely different lifestyle choice as “leftovers”, cause they’re not - people walk different paths and being snatched up earlier doesn’t make you better or worse

Pacman124 · 2023-12-13T17:20:36+00:00

Women will suddenly want to settle with you and push for it, either you magically become more attractive overnight, or there is some truth to "The Wall" and AF/BB.

Also, women who do not want to settle and just have fun will be more open about it and more direct.

Also your dating pool will be different, you will have the women your age, there will be younger women who want to "experiment" with an older guy.

As you get into your later thirties, you will also have the women who got married young and then divorced, who want to play around a bit.

But.... if you made bad choices earlier in life, fitness, health, finance, etc they are going to be more apparent.

Finally, a lot of guys start letting themselves go at this age, so its not like your competing with Chad as much.

Actually, last of all, single mums. Sorry but your in your thirties. They are going to be more common. If your late thirties, early forties, there may be single mums with mature aged kids, so they are actually looking to have fun, not find a step in dad.

asofiro_ · 2023-12-13T18:00:52+00:00

Don't wait until your 30s to date. Peaking as a man in your 30s is bs unless you suddenly have a business take off or make it through some selection event (ie, making VP at a bank). Physically you'll be at your peak in your mid-late 20s.

A lot of women fall into negative feedback loops when they reach their 30s and 40s, become very set in their careers and generally aren't willing to fit their lives around someone else. You'll have to settle for some very independent women.

Dating is easier and harder as women are more willing to consider dating a greater variety of men but they can be very distrustful of men (rightfully so in many cases). This means going on many first dates that fail miserably with no spark at all.

I'm almost 30 and I gave up on dating any woman around my age or older as they seemed to carry around a list of qualifications for a man. I met my girlfriend who's younger (mid 20s) and is so much more happy and optimistic.

calfshrug · 2023-12-13T17:23:44+00:00

There’s only a population average for this. Some people peak in beauty, learning ability, social life, etc earlier or later. Some may peak at 22 and become homeless, ugly, talentless, and friendless by 30

WilliamWyattD · 2023-12-13T19:59:52+00:00

Modern culture severely limits large age gap relationships relative to history. Since a man's SMV is more determined by achievement and other self-work elements than a woman's, it is possible for non-naturals to climb the male SMV ranks as they age. Also, peak male beauty is probably late 20s/early 30s, as long as the hairline cooperates.

BUT this just means you will have a better pick of women your own age, not that you suddenly get to bang all the 20 year old hotties who ignored you when you were 20. There's no going back. There's no making up for things you missed. Only going forward.

SillyMushroomTip · 2023-12-13T18:22:28+00:00

Personally the bitter truth is that once you hit your 30s in dating your not going to give a fuck as you did in your 20s.

Its honestly fucking magical

AnonymousAgapeLove · 2023-12-13T19:10:17+00:00

Dude, in my 20s I hated myself so much. I fell for superficial things too, and judged myself so harshly for things that really didn't matter.

Also, if you thinking a career or money or anything entitles you to any type of future, well, it doesn't. You can roll the dice a certain way, but there are pros and cons with lots of life avenues. I think when you reach 30, hopefully you will see that you are a human, and so are lots of other people, for better or for worse. When I was in my 20s I judged myself so harshly. Now I'm living my life, and my spiritual journey. The nice thing is that when people show reciprocal interest these days for me, it's moreso because life CHECKED them on their fantasies, and I feel more people i know are humbled and grounded. Of course, some others are not, and caught up in the rat race, feeling entitled to things because they kill themselves for their boss.

I think the bitter pill is that you may be blackpilling yourself. There is a time and a place to do so, but it can easily be a self fulfilling prophecy. The bitter pill may be that you are going to have to determine for yourself what you value in life. Your actions will have consequences no matter what path you go down. In some areas, you are too nice and too mean to yourself, so you will have to try something even if outcome is not guaranteed.

Also, FUCK hookup culture. Lots of people are looking for the next hottest thing. Help your community and be full of love and life. Someone will appreciate that. Check your priorities. We are ALL living life, many with confused senses of hope. Get involved with volunteering and you might see your self worth and how you actually have a lot going on for yourself. Cheers, rant over.

abaxeron · 2023-12-13T21:47:12+00:00

or simply give me your general point of view about the topic

I'm balls deep in my 30s, and have never had to date during this period, because I happened to find the person I'm still with in my late 20s.

But in general, something really weird happened around that age. From somewhere around when I turned 16, and all the way until my late 20s, I found women fascinating. Smiley late 30s shortstacks with a little bit of grey hair and sporting jeans and flannel shirts; 18yo competitive swimmers with flowing blonde hair; cozy late 20s brunette housewives; women wearing old worn-out pajamas, and skin-tight jeans or leather. In cheap winter jackets hiding all of their curves and leaving only their slightly frostbitten faces to observe, and women wearing nothing at all, and dresses, and skirts, and stockings, and all those other wonderful and stylish things. Women in their 40s, with their maternal smiles. Women in their 50s and 60s with their perfectly tuned homemade cookie recipes and laughing with no regrets at their own passed youth. 99% of my playlist consisted of songs by women (Youtube was not that much of interest to me back then, but if it was, I'd be subscribed to every female podcaster on the planet), just for the voices. I liked to hang out with women, I liked classes taught by women, I liked paintings by female artists, posters and photographs with women, books with female characters. My eyes wandering around would stop for just a little longer on women in the crowd.

Then, around 30th birthday, whatever craving caused me to do, follow, and prefer all those things... just kinda got sated. I probably have not listened to a single female Youtube content creator in 3ish years. The last song performed by a woman in my playlist was released in 2012 or so, and I will probably delete it soon because the longer I listen to it, the more I find the pitch annoying. I switch the radio station when the host is a woman. I don't have interest in any female celebrities, and find female-centered fictional stories mostly disappointing. If I had to sort my greatest desires by priority, then health, fat bank account, free time, tasty food, silence, video games, deep long sleep, binge-watching anime and TV shows, not being in debt, and not being under unfulfilled long-term contractual obligations - would all be way above sex, women's company, women's validation, or women's aesthetic qualities, no matter how close and personal and accessible those qualities would be to my face. If the hottest, most desirable woman I could ever imagine appeared at my doorstep in harem top and pants, bowing to me gracefully, calling me master, and saying that she is here to fulfill my every fantasy and desire with no questions asked and no obligations, I'd slam the door in her face and call the cops, because no way in hell it's anything but someone's sick joke or a criminal plot.

What will be a bitter truth that I'll have to accept?

Pussy is a drug that men are born addicted to. What you're feeling is not craving for true romance and love and partnership; it's withdrawal.

Inside-Gur5568 · 2023-12-13T17:27:01+00:00

Mens value also decrease as they age. Red piller makes money telling men that their value increases. But that is only true for a few men. The successful rich man can date the 20 year old waitress. But the average men get it harder too.

This is why most men settle for women their own age.

Fair_Use_9604 · 2023-12-13T17:54:30+00:00

I'm 30 and what I'm noticing is that everyone is getting married, having kids and running out of time. Women expect you to have your shit together and will not be willing to teach you or be your first relationship, other men already have their wives and friends so they won't extend a helping hand either. It's unironically over for me. I have no idea who these people are who keep saying that it gets better in your 30s because it doesn't. I wish they would stop saying that because it's just setting up men for even more disappointment

AloneOnTheStrange · 2023-12-13T22:45:03+00:00

Downsides: Most people have long term relationships, have settled down, and a sizeable chunk are married with kids. Your dating pool is smaller.

Less people are down for casual fun, and usually expect long term commitment.

Finding a woman without kids is hard.

A frustrating number of partners who want to settle down and have kids ASAP.

You will be filtered out of most age ranges of girls in their 20s.

Most women are letting themselves go, and you will find you have to do a lot of filtering.

Upsides: Most men have let themselves go, so you can stand out just by being decently in shape and well groomed.

There are still more than a few girls in their 20s down to date an older guy.

Standards can be easier for you.

Women are more willing to approach and make moves themselves.

Stunning-Spirit5275 · 2023-12-13T18:36:52+00:00

Accept suffering. Embrace pain. Live life unapologetically. Escape prison planet

527east · 2023-12-13T19:07:45+00:00

My dad mom and sisters failed me growing up dating. I was socially conditioned to be the nice guy because women liked nice guys. Took 20 years of dating to finally figure out that's not what women want. They want their sons and brothers to be nice guys in the immediate family but outside the family that advice was crap. Women don't want nice guys. They want the bad boy and they want to change those guys into being nice. There's no challenge with boring nice guy.

lovestocomment · 2023-12-13T20:53:25+00:00

I don't think you understand what men mean when they say men reach their prime in their 30s. It's not about looks. It's about experience and resources. Looks matter but it's not everything, most women don't find most men to be physically attractive. However, it doesn't mean they find men overly unattractive. There is a guy like you out there that falls in the same looks level as you and is not single and or dating regularly. The difference is comes down to hygiene, social skills and resources. Women don't just look at physical attraction, they look at way more stuff when it comes to picking men. At least the ones that are not simple minded and self absorbed.

So your 20s should be used to build up your social skills, confidence and leadership qualities. You should also spend that time actually learning about women. Whether through dating or friendships.

So, the bitter truth is that if you waste your twenties as a man, your options when you are in your thirties will drop even more. Your options are based on your qualities and resources. Focus on those. I'm in my 30s and honestly I find myself turning women down. Some attractive some not so much. Why? It's because they don't have qualities I'm looking for in along term partner. Looks are nice, but when you want more in your life outside of sex, eye candy and partying. Then you have filter people out.

Ohmaygahh · 2023-12-14T15:34:43+00:00

It doesn't get "better".

You are left with a pool of women who have mental health problems, lots of baggage, were the type of women who never would consider you for anything romantic/sexual in their 20s, are poor or woefully unprepared for even older age, somehow have MORE demands and "standards" at an older age vs when they were younger,

Simply put, it's a terrible deal. If you were a wallflower/late bloomer and do manage to make something of yourself; meaning you are top % in multiple hierarchies, it is incredibly isolating. You just become a lonely, learned observer.

After having watched the tv series "Loki", it really does feel like you're that character in the end. You achieved so much, you know so much, you can reliably predict how things are going to pan out, but you have no/one friend(s) that are your "equal" and NO women who brings the level of value you do.

What starts as a supplement to your dating life, you quickly become limited to low quality matches on the dating platforms because finding women in friend circles becomes untenable. And unwise, should the courtship sour.

You're only solace is that all that hard work, to improve body, mind, finances, soul ... you get to reap those rewards but in other areas in life not related to dating and mating. People complain about work, you technically don't have to work another day in your life. People scrimp and save to drive and visit their high school friends two states away, you can go straight to the airport and book a flight to Paris whenever the fuck you want and figure out accommodations once you arrive, with a proper croissant in hand.

Life becomes really lonely when you look out to the endless sand in Egypt and look at the pyramids, it's great but you're not sharing the experience with anyone but yourself. If you ever watch the movie "Benjamin Button", it becomes that portion of the film when Brad Pitts character finally resolves himself from leaving his crush alone. With inherited wealth, you just go on a journey of exploration solo. Motorcycles, boats, travel. Occasionally you'll get "lucky" and meet someone fun and exciting, who will happily and enthusiastically share a bed with you, but it's very fleeting. But it doesn't last long, they have a different life they have to attend to, and they won't be joining yours. And it happens very infrequently, only once every 3~7 years or so.

You have to become content, or at peace, with the idea that you will eternally be alone.

elitelocalpro · 2023-12-13T17:43:40+00:00

all women are either overweight, have kids, or have high body counts

LoFiPanda14 · 2023-12-13T17:55:56+00:00

31 here going to 32 soon, it doesn’t get better after 30 or w/e meme that talks about 30 is your peak as a man. Enjoy your 20s while you can.

Literal_Jesus_ · 2023-12-13T18:41:13+00:00

Nopills Girl my tag doesn't work

My partner is 36 I'm 28 every day he says he feels like he figured himself out at 30. I think men actually have an easier time dating past 30 if they spent their 20's productively.

Pathosgrim · 2023-12-13T19:10:09+00:00

Put in the hard work so you can pay to win later and don't forget to enjoy the decline

pillchangedmylife · 2023-12-13T23:45:01+00:00

Love is a young man's game I'm afraid.

Even if you get hot 20 something's in your 30s it's not the same as both being 20s and on the same wavelength.

It's no longer validational and most probably now transactional.

You either had it or you didn't my friend

Regular_Lettuce_9064 · 2023-12-14T00:10:50+00:00

It gets easier as you get older - for two reasons. First of all you have more confidence. Secondly you learn not to give a fuck if you get rejected. Now women sense a confident guy who doesn’t give a fuck: it challenges them.

That’ll get you to stage one. Beyond that they’ll expect you to have done something to have established a career or assets - forget it if you’re broke, still living with Mom or living in a mobile home.

Now ultimately what women want is to feel safe and looked after. They consume resources in return for giving you some sex. If you find a good one, you might even get some cooking, cleaning and laundry done. But don’t marry them! These days it’s too risky with western divorce laws. Enjoy em but don’t move em in.

Remarkable-Bottle254 · 2023-12-14T06:55:05+00:00

The bitter truth. Two options here.

You didn’t amount to what society expects so you aren’t even on their radar.
You made something of yourself and the only reason they see you now is because of that very reason. You are a more abundant resource and their clock is ticking.

If they didn’t choose you for the right reasons in your early 20s, they aren’t choosing you for better reasons now.

obviousredflag · 2023-12-14T08:25:42+00:00

You cannot take average or general developments for men and expect that this is what is going to happen to you.

Where blue pill is right, is that confidence is absolutely crucial for your dating life. If you get to a point of confidence from work success or body goals, this might turn around your dating life. But only when you are not lacking in social experiences, friends, opportunities to meet people. If you are the type of guy who stays home alone over the weekend, no amount of improving and aging will change your dating life.

There is no need to "wait until you are a finished product". You can date at any stage of self improvement. All the experience you don't make in your 20s will further hinder your success in your 30s.

Redpillers think men hit their prime in their 30s, I honestly don't necessarily agree with it.

ON AVERAGE. You personally might have peaked at 18, or might peak at 50. Nobody gets desirable just by waiting until a certain age happens.

Even being in your prime doesn't mean you get your pick of hot girls. It's YOUR prime, not Chad's prime. You don't automatically get as desirable as other men, just because you are at the average peak years of men's desirability. Waiting for a decade to "start dating" will surely inflate what your standards are. After all, why settle for someone unattractive, if you self improved for 10 years and are in your prime? But that is what is probably in your future. If you are unattractive, your future partner will be very likely too.

At every point in your journey of self improvement, there are women who are on your level and who are willing to date you. There is no "you need to be this tall to ride"-rule.

Date now! There is no point in waiting for what men on average get in their 30s. It might not apply to you.

jha_avi · 2023-12-14T11:28:48+00:00

By 30 you will have better options because of 3 reasons.

Girls would be done with their "exploring" phase and looking for a guy who will take care of them without cheating. They look for normal or ugly looking guys because they know he won't cheat. Otherwise they would have stayed with the good looking guy but they know that sooner or later something can happen. So ugly rich guy is playing it safe.
You would be willing to put up with things because building a good future and career requires sacrifice. You would have sacrificed your love and other desires and would be happy to collect the leftovers she will provide.
She will be coming close to her natural timer. I'm not a fan of the wall but women do have a date where it becomes difficult to be able to give birth. She will want a safe and loving second choice of a husband who will look after his children.

neverendingplush · 2023-12-14T14:16:31+00:00

A lot of people don't realise this because of generational gaps, and they lack enough dating experience to see things for what they are so they take everything at face value. Of course there are people who like each other , reasonably attracted to each other, get married, relationships and so on. But the over arching trend that plagues a lot of men whether they know it or not, as that many are married, in relationships with women especially late 20's early 30's by women who would not have fucking looked in their direction a few years prior.

Naturally the guy doesnt know this, hes just happy to have someone who seems to be in to him, is providing somewhat consistent sex(for the time being lol), and isnt lonely. All you have to do is look at tinder, look at how many guys complain about getting no fucking matches and ask yourself, why are there so many young dudes getting next to nothing and yet magically in a few years the majority of them will be married with kids.

hmmmmm, lets think, because those women who were fucking the cream of the crop , eventually realized that dude aint committing, or is nowhere to be found , and she wants someone to build a nest with at the end of the day. Thats why women's standards get pickier as they get older. They were fucking losers back in the day as long as they were cool, fucked em right, and was attractive. These plethora of standards exists for men who doesnt exactly get off on, because this isnt a relationship built off lost, shes looking to cash out on some hapless dude who frankly doesnt know the game, pop out some kids, and tells society"look at me im not the lonely spinster, sips glass of wine, im a desirable women in a loving marriage".

support_men · 2023-12-13T18:29:53+00:00

Honestly it’s great if you’re in shape and have some money.

I’m 37 average white guy. Moderately fit and a decent earner.

I live in a college city

I casually date lots hot women and have loads of options from ages 25 - 45

I was in a 10 year relationship until I was 26 and after that I thought it was going to suck, but as long as you have your shit together, your 30s are prime time.

33 was my favorite so far

You have so many more choices/options around your age because lots of men are either taken or dead beats

And you have lots of options with younger women because they think men their age are immature

I have noticed since I’ve entered my late 30s the 22 year old hookups are less common, but my age range is still wide enough there are more than enough options,

The other great thing is in a city, like all the women are hot. Like all of them. They work so hard and put so much effort in to look good.

So I feel like I’m living the dream hooking up with hotties all the time.

Get your life right and you’ll be solid.

And if you’re looking for a wife, those women are around too.

I know lots of people say it’s only high body count women, but that’s not totally true.

You’ll find a lot of women who spent years in a bad relationship with sub 10 body counts who still want a family.

There are definitely more single mothers though. That is true. But a lot of them are good women if you’re cool with kids. Which I’m not:

Good luck. You’ll be all good man. Have some fun.

gntlbastard · 2023-12-13T21:40:32+00:00

You are largely going to be meeting women who have mileage on them and you need to be even more picky about wifing up these women. Most will be single mothers or people carrying serious baggage - the "had my fun but ready to settle down" type

boredom4321 · 2023-12-13T17:37:16+00:00

Depends how much you improve. If you go from overweight and broke with thinning hair to properly in shape, finances sorted, properly shaved head + beard (or hair transplant) and start dressing like a successful man then you'll find your dating prospects are going really well. Losers have this idea that post 30 every women is damaged goods and they can only be "betabux" but the reality it's not much different than your 20s and you'll probably start seeing a lot of the women have more substance to them because they have more life experience. It's just a little harder to meet them because the venues you need to frequent will change.

This is as someone in their late 20s so I tend to get a pretty big mix of ages in my dating. Anyone who thinks all women past 30 aren't worth it are just trying to cope because they're the same loser they were in their 20s with no change.

Also, men don't get worse with age unless you let yourself go. If you're working on yourself you'll probably notice that you end up looking better in your 30s than you did in your 20s because you've properly taken care of your health. You also don't need to wait that long. Shave your head, get in the gym and start learning how to actually approach women you'll end up with some success.

LadyLazarus2021 · 2023-12-13T18:09:20+00:00

I don’t know. I don’t understand a lot of the terms used here. I met my now husband when he was 33 and I 28. I had been married before, no kids and no debts. We are still married now 17 years later.

I think dating in your late 20s and early 30s, you find women who want to settle down (not settle for!) and start a family. People will call them bad names or claim it’s because they’ve learned not to chase the Chad.

But i didn’t find a lot of guys that interested in settling down in their 20s either. Most people want to date around, build their careers, and figure themselves out. I saw people pairing up seriously in the mid to late twenties. In my graduate program, I was odd as a married woman.

People build their lives and start look around to get serious in the later twenties. I think you’ll find women who know what they want.

As to feeling bitter that you didn’t ge to have the low commitment dating relationships and sex of your twenties, I don’t know what to tell you. I didn’t get it much either. First, married for some of it, and, second, I’d be what people here call a mid as a teen early twenties. I improved myself quite a bit. Now - for my AGE - I’m probably a 7.

We play the hands we are dealt. I had a mediocre hand in the looks department but a really good brain. You have to accept what you’ve got and play your hand the best you can.

DangZagnutsNewSon · 2023-12-13T22:11:52+00:00

I only fuck guys who are 18-21 age range for free. I'm 35. The other day a 24 year old asked me if I was 21 yet. Men age like milk. There's the bitter truth I bet you already knew.

campskills21 · 2023-12-13T18:43:26+00:00

With this attitude you're going to be a fine betabuck for a boring below average girl looking to settle down by your mid 30s. Looksmaxx, make money, and get a good lifestyle with a nice home and you'll likely get dates from cute young girls. Do it now, you act like life is a long marathon, happens quick.

jaybalvinman · 2023-12-14T15:06:20+00:00

You seem like a pretty rational guy so I will give you my opinion from a women's point if view.

"The hardwork I'm putting in right now even worth it?"

It is always worth it. What else should you be doing right now? If you have been putting your social life to the side WHILE you do work, then that is a huge mistake. You need to work on your social life first. Because when you get older that is the first thing to go.

"Will I find women in my age bracket attractive the same way I do now?"

You might, you might not. It depends on how you view women and what you need them for.

"What will my dating pool consist of? "

In your 30's? Can I ask why you are thinking of your 30's when you should be thinking about it RIGHT NOW. You cannot predict the future.

"Will the difference in life stages dating wise between me and my potential dating prospects cause a lot of problems?"

Most younger women will not be attracted to you, If you are indeed average, short, and balding. You will need to have celebrity or elite status money. You will never reach that level. The women you may be able to pull you probably do not want now in your 20's. 30s you may be so desperate and lonely that you will pull someone you dont even like. That being said, the problems are not going to be about life stages. Let attractive older men worry about that. Its that you wont be able to pull.

"What will be a bitter truth that I'll have to accept?"

See answer above.

" If women don't find me attractive now, why would they later on when I'm older, since I'll be objectively less attractive. Am I going to internalize potential bitterness for being left out all this time?"

Like I said, you are rational and can identify the truth. Dont let this time bring you to bitterness. Dont wait another 10 years because it is not going to end up good. You need to prioritize your social life and dating NOW.

" Can you even start fulfilling and healthy relationships where both parties genuinely desire each other past 30 or am I going to be a beta bucks at best? "

Of course they can! But if one party is so inexperienced and bitter it will not work.

"Should i just stay a celibate if by 30 I'm not seeing any improvements?"

HELL NOOOOO!!!

Being a virgin (or inexperienced) after 30 is a death sentence for your future sex life. Pull something. Anything. Women want experience. You dont have to show future dating prospects pictures of women you laid with previously. Just as long as you have experience. Learn how to spit game or even be a beta bux, who cares, just get that experience.

Lots of experience in your 20s is going to result in a smoother experience in your 30s. Your wisdom and experience with women will show in your future dealings with women.

RepresentativeAide27 · 2023-12-14T16:02:02+00:00

If you're hanging out for your 30s, and thinking about the future as if you'll suddenly be more successful in dating, then you're probably going to be really disappointed when you hit 30. You'll still be the same underlying person and have the same insecurities. It won't be any easier, and the number of available women to date hugely reduces as you get out of your 20s. Unless you suddenly become a multi-millionaire or something, things aren't going to be much better.

basedmama21 · 2023-12-14T17:17:07+00:00

Men have it better as they get older. Obviously don’t get a woman pregnant when you’re an old geezer. But if you’re relatively attractive and charismatic, the wall comes much later for men than women.

Yourstruly777 · 2023-12-14T18:00:43+00:00

For most men dating gets better. Also, some body shapes get more masculine 40+. Like fit example Steve Buscemi.

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Some guys who looked great in their 20's don't look good 40+.

Also, men in their thirties are more desirable because they have more life experiences. The trouble is discerning between hot single moms and less hot women ready to start families.

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-12-14T21:30:29+00:00

Date a woman in your league in you'll be fine.

I know balding, overweight, average income (40k-50k) men with overweight average income women and they love each other. This is especially true if you have a good personality. My advice would to be stop thinking the way you are thinking, because if you do find a woman and she knows you have these views...if she is high quality she will be put off.

emorizoti · 2023-12-15T16:47:18+00:00

It gets better. You no longer see the women you date as crushes, or get obsessed with them. You start to see them as any other human and look beyond their games. You have much better view of life and things that make you have a happier life. And you have a say in wether to settle or just have some fun, unlike in your 20s when you do stuff for women so they can choose you. Believe me but it gets better for you.

emorizoti · 2023-12-15T16:47:27+00:00

It gets better. You no longer see the women you date as crushes, or get obsessed with them. You start to see them as any other human and look beyond their games. You have much better view of life and things that make you have a happier life. And you have a say in wether to settle or just have some fun, unlike in your 20s when you do stuff for women so they can choose you. Believe me but it gets better for you.

NotARussianBot1984 · 2023-12-13T17:25:16+00:00

Have you thought about getting a remote job and moving to the Philippines? I heard dating as a older educated successful guy is much easier there than in USA.

TWCDev · 2023-12-13T18:09:38+00:00

I've had the best sex of my life in my 40s, my hair looks its best (I went very bald by 29, got a hair transplant when I was 43), I'm probably in my best physical shape (still dadbod, but people think I'm thinner than I really am because I carry it well).

I'd say it depends on where you live, and how open you are. I live in Las Vegas, which is a very sex positive city. I know a camgirl 33 who has been pursuing my friend who is 55. He asked if she should go for it. He has no money, isn't tall, but he does have a foreign accent, I told him have fun! She is super hot, honestly I've had a bit of a crush on her for years, but I have 2 partners already. I think if you live somewhere with millions of population, there is enough people that you can decide what you want to do, how you want to live, and if you're honest about your intentions (just sex, poly relationship, monogamous relationship) and that you're not trying to "rush" (if you're trying for a longer relationship) and just enjoying life how it goes, you can have whatever lifestyle you want to have, with as much sex and companionship as you want to have.

Last week I recorded a nerd youtube show with a self described "anti-woke" guy and found out he has a super hot bdsm-leather wearing punk girl as his long term girlfriend. The guy is balding, angry, overweight, and his girl is super hot. These are all nerds though, and nerds seem to connect more for mental reasons (she is super cynical and probably appreciates his super cynical self) than traditional reasons.
You sound like you're on the right track for success though, with the only caveat that if you're in a small population area, I recommend trying to move somewhere 2 million pop+

RahLyt · 2023-12-13T18:03:37+00:00

When you say you're on a road of self improvement does that include approaching? You don't get better at it if you don't practice what you aiming for.

SexySecretsSD · 2023-12-13T18:31:56+00:00

You will meet a lot of great women who are divorced, have kids, or both

MistyMaisel · 2023-12-13T19:36:29+00:00

Probably unpopular take, I think dating in 30s (or late 20s) is probably better for both genders. And this is for a very simple reason: you finally know who you are and what you have to offer and have "arrived" in some sense and so have all the people around you.

Most people aren't still unsure of who they are, what they want, what they like, what is and isn't acceptable, and getting caught up in the chaos and mistakes of being pure potential, low experience, low security, eager to please, and so obviously foolish in myriad ways.

But important in all of this is you know what you're looking for and you go for it. Be honest, and realize when you have contradictory goals (I think this is where most of the older ages get screwed and mixed up).

If you want an easy example, you're saying you wanna settle down, but have some fun first, but you don't really do one night stands. None of this goes together, this is wanting to be like 16 again. But you're not. The women around you will have mostly filtered down to wanting to find the right guy and settle down (this doesn't mean beta-bux, it just means they no longer believe the fuckwits stringing them along are going to shape up into fatherhood and husband material) or they'll want quick easy sex with no or few strings, and they aren't looking to be anyone's practice round. I would highly advise you to pick settling down with the right woman over your chaotic fantasy of getting some miles and then settling down. Your time to get miles is ending basically. Maybe you'll get lucky, but probably not, especially if you aren't willing to lie to another person.

To answer why you'd be attractive now when you weren't before? Are you exactly the same person before as you are now? No. People change. I'll tell you hand to god, I'm way hotter at 30 than I ever was at 18. At 18 I was a late bloomer, gawky, a bit of a basket case from childhood issues and daddy issues, rebellious, deranged personal style, didn't have a clue, didn't have a real direction, riddled with anxiety, and couldn't have nurtured a plant, and most of my relationships were about fighting, stepping on each other's insecurities, and sometimes having a sweet moment. I may have had slightly firmer this or that or been blessed with the glow of new blooming, but honestly, way more dudes turn and look at me now or hit on me than ever did back then, and there were a lot back then. There's no reason the same isn't true for you or for other men.

As for will you be bitter, that's up to you, but I recommend against it. There's no reason for bitterness. Yes, you can have fulfilling and happy relationships past thirty based on genuine desire. Honestly, I think it's more likely. I can't tell you how many relationships I had not based on genuine desire, but just based on insecurity, proximity, and a need for validation.

Tiny_Werewolf1478 · 2023-12-14T01:18:16+00:00

Men spend all their time thinking about how they can save women

Women spend all their time thinking how they can kill men

im_a_little_teap0t · 2023-12-13T17:42:11+00:00

You have no idea how much life is ahead of you; I know 25 doesn’t feel “young” but it really is. And there’s a difference between self improvement and trying to achieve certain things just to be marketable. Balding and short isn’t going to doom you. Being insecure and giving up on love before you’re even middle aged though… I know this comment gets thrown around a lot to be cruel but it’s not my intention whatsoever when I say, maybe you need some therapy. Most people do. And an emotionally intelligent and mature man will find quality women and healthy long term relationships before a self righteous douche bag with a six pack does.

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wtknight · 2023-12-13T18:05:55+00:00

Don’t forget that women age too.

The key is for men to just age better and improve themselves better relative to their competition.

Things get easier for older men because more women want to settle down and have families rather than just have fun or advance their careers, and the socially acceptable age gap to date increases.

Chongsu1496 · 2023-12-13T17:52:50+00:00

It's quite depending really , it mainly depends on what you are seeking from dating , is it to settle ? Or is it for casual things . I'm just about 6 months out of a long term relationship were things ended all of a sudden , 27 years old and I believe I'm old for any sort of relationship especially that I always seek things that start and grow organically because my purpose from dating always was and will be someone I'm going to spend the rest of my life with . But then I'm not getting any younger , I'm not going to suddenly become good looking , girls won't suddenly become interested in me whether that was in my 20s , 30s or 40s . Its still the same criterias , it's still the same conditions . Youth love is irreplaceable, you aren't bound by any sort of responsibility, you have time to experience all sorts of different things without feeling that time to settle completely is pressuring you , you are still in your physical and emotional peak . But all of this is just my opinion

harmonica2 · 2023-12-13T18:28:47+00:00

I'm a guy over 30 and I have had a lot more success compared to in my 20s.

Safinated · 2023-12-13T19:01:16+00:00

The truth for everyone is that you’re no longer a “young adult” and not quite so physically desirable. And most people are in their first marriages at 30

I mean, I really hope you all know this

slazengerx · 2023-12-13T19:02:49+00:00

I can't think of any. Although I don't live in the US/Europe.

Havel68 · 2023-12-13T19:15:44+00:00

I wouldn't put off dating until you think you are ready for it because to me that sounds like an evasion tactic. I saw it a lot with both male and female friends when younger they fixate on a person who isn't available to them for example thinking only they will do when in reality they are just using that as a way to hide. The same goes for those who think they need to fix themselves. Nobody is ever perfect and putting off dating for sex improvement is just another form of deflection. Sometimes a person who does this comes to realise they don't want a relationship and that's fine but mostly they do and who wants to hide all their lives because you will never feel ready or be perfect enough, if you fix one problem something else will bother you, its human nature not to be at peace.

I agree with other posters that most people who are suited to long term relationships are paired up in their 20's, there are just far more available possible partners at that age than as you get older so starting to look for a partner in your 30's will be harder. As you'll encounter other people who have issues with intimacy and relationships.

I think you will still find women your own age attractive as you get older, 30 isn't 20 but it isn't dead either so I think that is less of a worry but I think you really need to get over this idea that you need to make yourself into something more in order to look for a relationship, nobody is perfect and lots of imperfect people still find love and happiness.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2023-12-13T20:05:02+00:00

So, optimistically, if i keep up, what's waiting for me down the line?

Is the hardwork I'm putting in right now even worth it?

It depends on how much you self improve.

Will I find women in my age bracket attractive the same way I do now?

Unless you find 30 year old women as attractive as 20 year old women, then thr answer is no.

What will my dating pool consist of?

Most 30 year old women who are single have issues( kids, being overweight, high body count, mental illness) keeping them single

Will the difference in life stages dating wise between me and my potential dating prospects cause a lot of problems?

No, most women at that age are looking to settle down

If women don't find me attractive now, why would they later on when I'm older, since I'll be objectively less attractive

They have less options in men in their 30's and you have more resources than you did in your 20's

Am I going to internalize potential bitterness for being left out all this time?

Only you can answer this question

Can you even start fulfilling and healthy relationships where both parties genuinely desire each other past 30 or am I going to be a beta bucks at best?

I wouldn't say fulfilling relationships but you can definitely settle down with someone if you can look past their flaws

Should i just stay a celibate if by 30 I'm not seeing any improvements?

Only you can answer this. If you don't go overseas and you can't pull 20 year old women, your only options will be ran through, overweight single mothers. What happens next is your choice.

FutureBannedAccount2 · 2023-12-13T20:17:35+00:00

Not 30 yet but after talking to a few older guys about this, dating gets easier but your options get worse.

Many guys say almost all the same women who rejected them and were still single hit them up to reconnect. Usually they were now more hefty, had kids, baggage or didn’t really move forward past a certain point.

The caveat is that these are all men who took care of themselves

EmbarrassedClient283 · 2023-12-13T20:42:54+00:00

Sorry man, your best bet would be to get a remote job and move to a country in which it is substantially easier to get laid, if you end up doing that I would also suggest to forget about marriage and children if you are able to do that you would have sweet life

CloudsTasteGeometric · 2023-12-13T21:28:41+00:00

Your SMV will fall unless you take care of yourself. The only men who "age like wine" are those who keep up with the gym and lay off the drinking.
Many women in your dating pool will be mothers. Many more will be divorcees. When dating women in your 30s finding a woman who is childfree and has never been married or engaged is the exception: not the rule.
Money matters more. A LOT more. If you can't make enough money to buy a nice house and pay for a nice wedding: good luck landing a serious relationship. You may be able to get dates but if you aren't earning a very healthy income (six figures at least if you're in a major city) you can basically forget about marriage or settling down.

Hoopy223 · 2023-12-13T22:26:29+00:00

Everybody’s the same but older lol.

CryptoThroway8205 · 2023-12-13T23:37:00+00:00

32M here. 23 year old girls don't interest me for LTR and I think I'm pretty childish. Like I know divorce rates are higher in these relationships and a bad marriage is worst case scenario. So 30ish women are more attractive. They also make more and seem more likely to split dinner bills which also means less pressure to provide. I also care what people would think if I told them I were dating someone 9 years younger. And I'm not sure about kids anymore but it feels like early to mid 20 girls are less serious about it and some just want to party and get drunk which I'm not into unless I'm traveling and then only to meet girls at clubs. Holy shit the zoomerspeak is hard to understand too. I think one had daddy issues and was into older guys cuz of that. Another seemed interested in marriage to have kids and be stay at home. Updated my age range after that.

I find dating a bit harder. Everyone is busy or flaky. If they're flaky they're not that interested anyways. People don't lower their standards that much and become jaded after getting experience dating. I was doing ok on the apps in my 20s when they weren't all clones of tinder trying to microtransaction you like a mobile game. I make decent money now but probably did just as well for my age in my mid 20s. I gained weight so now I think I'm near the edge of overweight and normal but work out more and have improved my skin and style.

Another issue is lack of hobbies where I meet girls. I don't wanna do zumba or spin and the women there might on average be much older. Oh yeah, everyone's gained weight.

Everyone has some baggage which is fine.

I avoid single moms which are probably more frequent but hard to say if the young single moms pairing off leaves it the same.

On average I think I'm more attractive and probably get a higher match ratio.

I don't think there's a point to putting "short term" under "looking for long and short term" for me since women interested in me probably want only someone looking for long term to settle down with.

TrailWraith · 2023-12-13T23:37:22+00:00

It’s a mixed bag. If you’ve managed to keep yourself in decent shape and have a decent career, you get some last man standing cred. So you’ll probably see more options, it’s just a question of quality. Lot of women-children looking for a daddy or women your own age who are damaged and so terrified of being alone they’ll “settle” for guys they aren’t into.

You may find yourself saying “no” more than you expect.

Longjumping-Cut180 · 2023-12-14T00:32:28+00:00

Most men over 30 will definitely pine for and settle for a w.hore that was passed around.

And she'll settle for him.

NoidoDev · 2023-12-14T02:31:15+00:00

You might run into issues and risk if you want to date someone young.
Women which are older are not good for marriage, don't fall for it. Look into the arguments of "forever bachelors".

Green-Quantity1032 · 2023-12-14T03:31:26+00:00

I started dating in early 30s (dated/married same girl for 9 years before that).

I think I'd be having easier time if I was 26, but as long as I improve my looks and personality (personality means being fun and outgoing, not nice and complacent) things tend to get better.

EDIT: I'm mainly aiming for casual relationships where I don't have to lie about it - not long-term/marriage stuff which would be more easily available for my age

qunamax · 2023-12-14T04:13:10+00:00

Small towns don't work, like at all.

More-Tax-62 · 2023-12-14T04:22:14+00:00

Dating over 30 can be easy if you are not stagnant. If you stay the same or regress, then you are shit out of luck if you're an average dude.

You gotta pick a struggle 😂 You cant be short, fat, thinning hairline, no personality, no game, broke, depressed. Insofar as you can, you should work to mitigate whatever "weaknesses" you have.

You won't necessarily be less attractive in your 30s. If you're out of shape now and in shape in your 30s, then you will be more attractive in your 30s, more than likely. If your hair is thinning, maybe find products that can solve, or go bald. That's what I did. The women who like it love it. Go to the gym. The amount of confidence you gain by being physically competent is crazy.

Stay on top of your hygeine. Do your teeth look like Kerry Gold's? Get a signature cologne. You can get niche level stuff for Very low nowadays.

You're short. Wear some stylish boots. As a fellow shorty, I have some leather boots that I bought 7 years ago in prestige condition.

Find your lane. What are your strengths when it comes to dating? Capitalize on those. Develop a strategy. I found that being funny and witty works for me. Highly increased my chances if I got them on the phone before any dates. Dinner dates don't work well for first dates, but activities and competition does. Also be unabashed about your quirks and hobbies.

Keep on the self improvement journey for yourself first. You will look back and be so thankful.

Signal_Adeptness_724 · 2023-12-14T04:42:22+00:00

Too many variables to make a blanket statement, honestly. If you were fat and unkempt during your 20s and decide to groom better and lose the weight / get fit, you'll do better in your thirties. To say nothing of more disposable income in most cases

Fit-Television-3088 · 2023-12-14T06:07:58+00:00

I’m on my mid 20s and building my foundation as well. I however was blessed in the looks and charisma aspect so I still get lucky quite often.

But my friends who are in their early 30’s are constantly banging girls my age and younger. In your 30’s you’re more masculine and have more money, and that’s what matters when it comes to attracting women.

Substantial_Video560 · 2023-12-14T08:54:11+00:00

If you were unable to attract anyone in your teens and twenties then the probability of it happening in your thirties and fourties is unlikely (although not impossible) at best.

HODL_monk · 2023-12-14T10:19:43+00:00

Men's sexual peak is 17, but the odds of having any real life accomplishments at that age is very low. As a man, you can beta bucks up your life faster than your looks decline, but you still need to master the social skills, or those bucks are not going to help much. Also, the options fall off to some extent as the years go by, and older women are pickier, unless your social skills are god enough to pull much younger women. If you want sex or relationships with women, you need to prioritize that, or you are going to not take advantage of your best years.

SadDevelopment4813 · 2023-12-14T12:01:48+00:00

The bitter truth is that Gym is a waste of time. Have good inner Beauty. Dont Talk too much. Dont be a Chatter. Its hard sometimes. Stay away from Clubs tik Tok or Instagram College frat culture. Theres Always bigger Fish. So learn Play an Instrument can make you confident as hell.

throwaway316stunner · 2023-12-15T20:50:20+00:00

If you haven’t been on a date by the time you turn 30, don’t even start. Don’t bother. You’re essentially fucked for the rest of your life.

Doubly true if you’re neurodiverse.

giveuporfindaway · 2023-12-17T01:05:06+00:00

As someone in my late 30's I can tell you there's only something to look forward to if you drop your standards altogether and if you can swallow being settled for. Leftover women have a bitter unsatisfying taste.

ThomasPalmer1958 · 2023-12-19T00:56:49+00:00

Well you partially answered your own question. If your trying to improve yourself, it all takes time. Physically obviously improving your physique. I starting going bald and just shaved it all. Height....well nothing practical to do about that. Profession-career? Plenty. Let me give you my story. I had 3 long term girlfriends by the time I was 20. Each one of them dumped me for the bigger, better deal. I self ranked myself a 5 to 7. 5 after a serious relationship of 2 and a half years ended with one of those girls as she mentally took all my confidence for a good year. 7 otherwise. As I neared 20 I realized life wasn't going real well. No real career. Not going anywhere. I was athletic but not anywhere near professional statues. So at that time my older brother had just gotten into law school. For reference nobody in my family had ever gone to college. And I know I was more intelligent than my brother. He was going big places, I certainly was not. So I made a huge decision. Go to college. If my brother was able to get into law school, certainly I could get into medical school. So I applied, took out student loans, took a vow of poverty and set sail. Fast forward 12 years, I'm finished with my residency, my wife and I move back into our home town. And guess who contacts me. All 3 of my former girlfriends who dumped me for the higher statues guys. All 3 want to get back together despite me being happily married. Did it feel good to reject them? Yes, and really felt like I dodged a huge bullet by not being in a relationship with any of them longer than I did. When I met my wife, I was just a poor college kid, she was in college as well but soon to go onto a career. She was attracted to me not where I was but the direction where I was going. So to summarize, hypergamy is real. If your not happy with the girls that you can date now, change yourself. Not a little. A lot. And in the whole scheme of things, a decade or longer isn't that much considering its the rest of your life you will benifit.

Title	What is a the bitter truth for men about dating over 30
Author	Pacman124
Upvotes	67
Comments	373
Date	December 13, 2023 5:10 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/18hlnek/what_is_a_the_bitter_truth_for_men_about_dating/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-a-the-bitter-truth-for-men-about-dating.1240693 https://theredarchive.com/post/1240693

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