Would things really be "better off" if women were more brutally honest about what they like/find attractive?

ZealousidealAd7191 · 2022-08-16T01:12:05+00:00

If women were more honest would men be happier? No. Would Men be better off? Yes.

supershotmd · 2022-08-16T06:51:14+00:00

Definitely. Because they would have more time to accept and adapt to the reality. Instead, an average or below-average guy takes the advice of women and "has confidence" to go for whoever he wants. As a result, he gets a look of disgust and maybe even overhears an "ewwww" she says to her girlfriends. This happens a lot because the baseline of culture is blue pill. That doesn't help.

You'd be surprised at how many average and below-average young men still think that confidence and being emotionally available makes them a great catch - because women keep repeating it again, and again, and again....and again. You rarely hear a woman tell you what the statistics prove - height/face/race (which is white).

Because of women's lies - some guys don't figure it out until their late 20's or EVEN LATER.

Edokwin · 2022-08-15T23:06:40+00:00

The sort of honesty you're talking about runs counter to the psychology of most people, especially most women. They don't want to be seen as capricious, mean or unfair, even if their actions may be fairly read as one or more of those things by outside observers. Also a person's behaviors are often not consciously understood by said person. This again is why people end up repeating the same problematic patterns in their dating life.

In a hypothetical world where people were more brutally self-aware and explained their actions more honestly/unflinchingly with others, I do think some good would come from the resultant back and forth. That's not the real world though. In the real world, a woman won't, and arguably shouldn't, tell a guy the real, full reason(s) she's unmatching, declining a second date, or even dumping him. At least she shouldn't offer those reasons before he specifically asks and promises not to flip out.

Ok_Yard_1042 · 2022-08-15T22:54:16+00:00

Yes.

But they won't because the whole system falls apart when the majority of men realize that they are and always will be repulsive to women.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-08-16T01:10:36+00:00

Neither gender benefits from being overly exposed to the raw sexuality of the other. Just as female selectivity and desire to extract resources and benefits from men is hard for males to take, most women find raw male sexuality disturbing, threatening and repulsive.

In fact, we all probably benefit from not being overly exposed to the raw sexuality of our OWN gender, either. There is a reason there were so many euphemisms about sex in the past. I'm not saying we can or should dial back the clock entirely, but we have gone too far in the other direction.

Gaycunt453 · 2022-08-15T23:43:43+00:00

Yes

One of the worst things that men are told by women is the as long as you have a kind heart and a good soul a women will love for you who really are. Men are also told that women like men are sensitive and in touch with there feelings. They want that harry styles soft eboy type. Of course all of that is bullshit.

And if are a nice guy and you don’t get girls it just means that you are actually a horrible misogynist person and women can smell the hatred and misogyny off of them. Because women have super in tune senses that can instantly detect when a man is actually a horrible person.

When in reality women are sexually attracted to guys who are hot fun confident and exciting. They are just not going to be attracted to men who are just nice, but not fun cool or exciting. They especially do not like men who are shy insecure or unassertive. M

They also want men with strong emotional control and stoicism. Not some emotional sensitive weak pussy who is “pushed around by his “feelings” and constantly crying over nothing. they hate men who act stereotypically feminine

If men are just told what women want they will not to try to be soft, emotionally, sensitive, and nice. Rather they would focus on being strong, tough, stoic, agressive, and exciting

Edit: Because biologically it is the confident dangerous risk taker who is more likely to risk his life to explore, hunt, and risk death to protect the tribe. They want men who are strong, courageous, and manly. There is more to being a man then just being nice. Nice means nothing if you are a soft weak pussy. In order for your kindness to matter you have to back it up with strength, assertiveness, and having some fucking balls

gabishes · 2022-08-16T04:40:44+00:00

For the sake of argument I will give the brutally honest version of what i’m interested in and y’all can tell me if it’s too much.

Appearance: Taller than me (I’m 5’8) I’ve been told i’m an 8 on average by men so I’d want a man who is in my lane of attractiveness. Physically capable of picking me up (125lbs, I faint sometimes) so whatever body type sustains that. I like indie/alt looking men but thats not a requirement.

I don’t date potential. I am a university student so I expect another university student who is responsible. I expect you to treat women as people. I expect no cheating. I want a partner, not a child. I will not mother you, if i have to i will leave. Splitting bills is fine. I don’t mind cooking and cleaning as long as i am compensated fairly ie pay for all groceries or do equivalent work.

Sex every day or every other day. This one isn’t hard and fast but its a preference. I have rape trauma, so i expect my infrequent no’s to be respected without question.

I want to feel loved. I will do my best to make him feel the same. I want to feel stable and secure in the relationship. I want to feel happy and want the opportunity to make him feel the same. I want someone to care for me and to care for him. The dream is to be happy sitting in the same room doing different activities but just happy with each others company. Like gomez addams.

So what do we think? It was very cathartic to write it out.

GhostofCamus · 2022-08-16T10:39:10+00:00

I think if either gender was hit with a sort of Liar Liar curse, the species would be extinct within a few generations. The week 1 suicides alone would look like a fucking plague hit to the aliens who found our bones.

ohheyhi99 · 2022-08-16T03:03:56+00:00

Some people will always be upset, but there’s a difference between honesty and brutal honesty.

Dishonesty: “I don’t date short guys because short guys are so insecure and mean to women. If short guys weren’t so insecure and mean, I wouldn’t care about their height. Women don’t care about height, men make it a big deal”

Honesty: “I prefer taller guys”

Brutal honesty: insults short guys

Truth_Antisocial · 2022-08-16T04:24:06+00:00

Things would not be better if individual women were brutally honest about what they like and find attractive to a particular man. That would absolutely be dangerous for the woman doing it, and unnecessarily cruel to the man hearing it.

But, things would absolutely be better if society and "the village", for lack of a better term, told boys the ugly truth.

This doesn't happen, because for the past 50 years, to ascribe any negative traits to women in general terms goes against state doctrine.

Simultaneously, it is en vogue to bash and ridicule men for anything you can come up with and get a big laugh out of it, because men in the abstract are the one group that is absolutely safe to hate openly.

We could teach boys to navigate the gauntlet they will face of women's potential for hypergamy, duplicity, solipsism and lack of self awareness the way they prepare girls to navigate men's horniness, potential for deception, violence and generally sexual predatory nature.

This doesn't mean telling boys that "girls are shitty, evil users" (although, basically the equivalent is told implicitly to young girls from an early age without anyone batting an eye - Hi Gillette Ad).

What it does mean, is telling boys to see through the surface level claims and sometimes outright lies and understand what a girl actually means when a girl tells you she "likes nice guys" and other things we currently tell boys to take at face value because /#believeallwomen.

We tell girls to be weary of boys who say shit like "Let's just go park in my car and look at the view". Girls are urgently warned about this before they even hit puberty, but boys are not about the myriad of ways young men can be used and abused until their self respect is a distant memory because "muh misogyny"

Boys have to be told about the fact that their own sex drive can and will lead them down a path of simping, and they will likely have to fight the urge to be "save-a-ho". They should be told that they will almost certainly be used if they do not understand how to separate what women say and what they do.

The people who should be teaching boys this are fathers, brothers, coaches and mentors, but because in 2022 even making one off-comment that is seen as "misogynistic" will get your ass fired or worse, it is up to women to level with the boys in their life.

Unfortunately, due to women's inherent in-group bias, this is very unlikely to happen.

My guess is that a seething resentment will build over the next 5-10 years and we'll see more lashing out, especially in any ways that are anonymous (like voting).

Eventually, hopefully, there will be a movement where we at the very least recognize toxic feminity and how to address it the way we have done for so long with men.

I'll end by linking to this small example - a scene from the movie "Dazed and Confused".

Dawson:

You know that Julie chick? Loves you. You want her? Gotta play it cool, you know. You can't let her know how much you like her because if she knows, she'll dump you like that. Believe me.

Like, if she asks you if you want a ride, you say, "No, I've got my own ride, but maybe I'll see you later." Sounds stupid, doesn't it? It works.

It's so simple and a throwaway line, but if society (and women) would just tell men (or at least acknowledge) this shit without crying about how "manipulative" it is, we'd be much better off.

ChowMeinSinnFein · 2022-08-15T23:20:20+00:00

Yes, because then you know what to work towards. Trying to maximize "being nice" versus "have a six pack" are two extremely different lives.

hari_hbp · 2022-08-16T02:10:31+00:00

I think they are as honest as they could be. It doesn't really matter because even if they lie, their actions won't.

However, I do agree that some men just have a hard time accepting that they never will be what women find attractive, no matter what they do. It'll be "better off" if men accept that they could have flaws that need to be rectified and still would not be attractive to women, if they worked on themselves for their own happiness and not let negative emotions guide their actions.

ZealousidealBird7291 · 2022-08-16T12:27:32+00:00

Women are socially conditioned from a young age to be placid, agreeable and people-pleasers so brutal honesty does not come naturally and this is by design - In my experience a lot of men can't take a "no" or "I'm just not interested" as an answer - they either completely ignore it or react aggressively...and the problem is you never know which guys are potentially going to start some shit, start hurling abuse at you, make a scene...try to follow you out of the bar etc versus those who will take it well, just shrug and walk off - that's why women rebuff and deflect and seldom give engage in brutal honesty and blunt answers - because when male egos get hurt they often direct their anger outwards at us. So no, whether or not it would be better for men or not I'm not sure (I'd guess no) - but it definitely wouldn't be safer for women...

sarkington · 2022-08-15T23:06:13+00:00

I don’t see any women ultimately lying about it. The proof is in the fucking

Flintblood · 2022-08-16T05:16:22+00:00

Yes. A lot of men waste time with the wrong approach or thinking that their partner loves them for what they do for her. She appreciates a provider that’s a good family man, but that’s not what keeps her tingles going. Armed with self-awareness of where a man stands, he can make the best decision for life fulfillment. I truly believe a lot more men would want to stay single if they had complete transparent access to the truth.

techr0nin · 2022-08-16T08:40:52+00:00

I think there would be less anger but more hopelessness for the bottom-tier men who now know for a fact they are bottome-tier.

But there would probably also be more anger from the middle-tier men, who now know they’ve been settled for.

Top-tier men would be far happier though and pump and dump way more from a much earlier age when they understand their true value.

On the balance I don’t know if it would be “better”. It’ll just be a more extreme version of what we currently have.

wtknight · 2022-08-15T22:50:48+00:00

I think that it would be better because men would know truthfully what kind of things they need to improve. I don't think that this will ever happen, though. The best thing that men can do if they want honesty is to read/watch romantic media catered towards women. Women can mislead men, but they aren't going to mislead other women when they are trying to make money off of these women's attractiveness preferences.

AutomaticMeaning3844 · 2022-08-16T00:32:24+00:00

Yes.

Society uses women's dating standards as a barometer of men's virtue and status in society. If a man can't get women, then he's shamed as a loser untouchable like nerds were in high school. If women's standards are exposed as shallow and vain, and are overindexing on genetics + zero sum, winner takes all features that optimize for gluttony, then people would stop caring what women think about men.

Women love to feel like they are the ultimate judge of men's character, so they keep up the lie that they have reasonable standards.

Alvorek94 · 2022-08-16T03:39:45+00:00

Would things really be "better off" if women were more brutally honest about what they like/find attractive?

If women were more blunt and "brutally honest" about their dislike, then men would probably be more likely to suffer from low self esteem after getting rejected by a woman.

If some woman was like "I don't like you because you're ugly, fat, and dress like a hobo" to a guy, i'm sure his self-esteem would suffer.

darkmoon09 · 2022-08-16T03:14:39+00:00

ive been brutally honest about how i care about d size and neither the internet nor real life can handle it. the only ppl who can handle it are other women.

Stop_Maximum · 2022-08-16T06:24:43+00:00

To a certain extent, because even if they did some people will still choose not to listen. Some people feel like everyone is entitled to love but that’s not the case. Everyone should be able to feel loved but not everyone will experience it. So even if people were clear, some people will still make them feel bad for it.

Compared to years ago, people have been more open to voicing their preferences, the problems are the listeners.

Bikerbats · 2022-08-15T23:01:53+00:00

Zero difference. The problem is check boxes don't actually translate to human relationships. I've had countless conversations over years with both men and women on the phenomenon of meeting someone who lives up to your every ideal mentally and physically, but paradoxically this is no spark, no chemistry, so it goes nowhere. While on the other hand, both sexes are often smitten by people who checked very few boxes, but kept them up at night thinking about them anyway.

PreparationWorried33 · 2022-08-16T02:17:23+00:00

Nope. Men would call it bullying and threaten them. There are already women who are brutally honest. Look in the comments of women who post that stuff on social media now. Men are not happy to hear it. It makes them feel angry and hurt. Especially if her post gets a lot of likes and the men are outside of the listed preference.

In real life some men will yell at you/insult you at best to argue or demean your out of your preferences or they will try to hurt you at worst.

poppy_blu · 2022-08-15T23:01:06+00:00

IRL I’ve always been honest. No one has a problem with it.

On PPD, women are honest and get called a liar, get called names, told they have no empathy and want ugly men to FOAD, blah, blah, blah.

There is no point in ever trying to appease a man on PPD. You will never satisfy them. They’re worse than women.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-08-15T23:36:15+00:00

No. Women are generally honest nowadays, and men generally aren’t handling it well. What we’re seeing is the first time in history where women actually have enough of a platform to express their preferences, and men do not like it one bit. They’ve been judging women like cattle forever, but heaven forbid a woman says she prefers a handsome man over an ugly one all else being equal. Another example of how men’s greatest fear is being treated like they treat women.

Or say you want a guy with some money and they really freak out. Or say personality and they don’t believe you. We’re supposed to be blind to the differences between men and just take the first one that comes stumbling our way I guess.

neolib-cowboy · 2022-08-16T00:48:19+00:00

I doubt it, because being honest would just be women saying "I really don't like 99.9% of men, and I like that .1% for reasons I can't explain" so at the end of the day, no

baresquad · 2022-08-15T22:48:46+00:00

I feel like they already are honest and what we see is the fallout from men immaturely not being able to handle that honesty

Therefore excuses like 80/20, Chad this Chad that, average men, etc. etc. are relied on. Them being more honest might only make those dudes even more mad

warramite · 2022-08-15T23:55:50+00:00

Yes...

Yes it would because men would KNOW simping/being affectionate will never get them anywhere cause they were never an option in the first place due to factors outside their control

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-08-16T01:29:56+00:00

No because if it wasn't exactly what they wanted to hear they'd just say you're lying.

decoy88 · 2022-08-16T03:07:42+00:00

OP have you seen the Invention of Lying? This scene is what your post reminds me of.

Now while this type of world would be perfect for me, I don’t believe most men or women could handle it, it requires an insane amount of emotional resilience not to take commentary super personally.

When it’s expressed here by women, there are male users that often try to clap back as a response. “You can’t handle the truth!” is very real.

suhurley · 2022-08-16T06:02:09+00:00

Just today, we’re dealing with a situation at work where a female is getting harassed after she (politely) turned a guy coworker down a few times. (Um, and he’s got a long term gf at home, but nevermind that, I guess.)

He’s called her “ratchet” to her face a few times, which feels worse by the fact that he’s white and she’s black. Before that, he was bragging to her about how much money he makes, how he owns his own (separate) business, and how his assistant was intimate with him, and how all the girls can’t resist him.

You can’t win with guys like that. They don’t accept “no” and move along with life. Instead it eats at them and they lash out at the woman. One in the news recently killed the girl. (IIRC they both worked fast food and had a large age difference like her 18 / him 40. Was in the past 2 months.)

lilac2481 · 2022-08-16T12:09:10+00:00

I wish, but most men can't handle a simple rejection.

SmakeTalk · 2022-08-16T12:13:16+00:00

There are plenty of men who can handle the honest truth in a rejection… most of them are not on here.

Kronbopulus · 2022-08-16T15:14:12+00:00

Would be a lot of hurt fee fees and the danger of whackos reacting in crazy ways is real but ideally, yea I’d rather brutal honesty. Better than gaslighting with platitudes.

sublimemongrel · 2022-08-15T23:52:51+00:00

When you are honest they just call you liars, so I doubt it. They just get angrier because they assume you’re lying.

2022-08-15T23:55:22+00:00

If women were just a little more honest about the depth and true nature of their preferences, my life would be 1000% better. The amount of effort I expend playing stupid fucking games could be dedicated to almost anything else.

catniagara · 2022-08-16T01:14:33+00:00

Your idea of “honesty” is “saying exactly what you want to hear” and that’s the issue. It’s like that video a while back where the guy was screaming at women just trying to get some bagels because it was his perception that women didn’t like his height (https://youtu.be/PWfRu5YQahs)

Sure, he’s short. But it’s clearly not the ugliest thing about him. Most of the short guys in my friend group find it easier to meet girls than it is for me to meet guys as a tall girl.

There’s obviously a huge difference between this guy and Rob Schneider, who is 5’5” but also funny, quirky and relatable in a way that does attract women (and people in general)

There’s no magic key to attracting people. Just be fun.

700horses · 2022-08-15T23:02:38+00:00

Things would be better if women had an indicator of how many sexual partners they’d had in their past.

Fun_Push7168 · 2022-08-16T00:37:57+00:00

Women are generally honest......from their point of view. The thing is they are generally more apt to be emotional thinkers. A large portion are very much in the moment.

To men they completely contradict themselves because it seems incredibly inconsistent.

" You put your work before your family" / "you need to work overtime so we can catch up on bills"

" You shouldn't hit on women at ______ location" / "omg this really cute guy hit on me at _____ location!"

Defend female promiscuity and say it's not degrading themselves to have nsa sex then turn around and make a statement that implies sex is inherently degrading to women (deriding porn as an example)

Have an ONS with one guy and make a boyfriend wait because " I felt like it that time" but I don't usually.

These aren't complaints I have personally, just some broad examples I've seen from the same woman. They aren't actually being dishonest about these things. We just can't understand how they reconcile within the same person.

There's also some general misunderstanding because they've never experienced trying to date as a man. Even if a difficulty is consciously understood it is not necessarily internalized. This is the same reason a rich person can't understand the way some poor people spend what money they have.

Bottom line, for the most part they are being honest...they're often just in the moment and very case by case.

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2022-08-16T00:41:36+00:00

By reading different posts in Reddits that women post with men clearly going ape shit over them not choosing them or giving them a chance in Dms couldn't imagine having to face these lunatic men in real life . Lol

2022-08-16T01:05:26+00:00

I am honest, and men on these subs don’t tend to believe me when I am. It’s not a lack of honesty, it’s that everyone is extremely attached to their worldview and will tend to discard evidence to the contrary.

Kobe_curry24 · 2022-08-16T03:05:40+00:00

Yes exceptionally, tons of women play emotional games because it feeds their ego and no one ever tells them no so it’s fun and I tell women this Shit all the time “ the worse thing you can do is play with someone emotionally “ this is why guys or women turn psycho and end up doing horrible things “ now some people are just nuts but you can’t lead someone on for months then expect them to not act nuts it’s, this is why most guys go for sex as quickly as possible because women don’t even award guys for waiting lien they did in past years say 50-mid 80s so your stuck in endless game of catch the rabbit and most guys want honesty it’s saves time but I don’t think women really want that at all I’ved scene women players try think that it’s helping them keeping guys around that Shit is dangerous and pot waiting to boil over

2022-08-16T05:34:33+00:00

It's simple what women want. Women want a successful guy with money, or is headed that way, to take care of them. He must also be good looking, stable, liked by her friends and family, willing to sacrifice his time and money for her, and give her a comfortable life.

What do women have to be for men? Good looking, loyal, faithful, trustworthy, kind, agreeable, and good in bed. Most women do not fit that mold today in the slightest.

neetykeeno · 2022-08-15T23:47:09+00:00

I don't feel particularly obliged to go through the process of them being upset with me just for their benefit.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-08-16T00:07:43+00:00

Yes, men would end up wasting a lot less time believing blue pill non-sense.

headedtothetrashbag · 2022-08-16T00:33:13+00:00

In my limited experience, many women find it off putting to have to explain what they want or are attracted to, especially in person directly. Even if a woman explained in explicit detail everything a man would need to do to be attractive to her and he somehow managed to “fix” himself to that particular woman’s taste, she would still not be attracted to him. Why? Because he wasn’t being authentic, he only became that to gain her affection. He would still be a needy, insecure people pleaser.

The cold truth is already out there. For a man to attract and keep a partner of value, he must first make himself into something valuable. It begins with biology, be physically fit and active, maintain a healthy lifestyle, eating right, limiting drug and alcohol consumption, proper sleep habits, good grooming habits, see a doctor regularly, see a therapist regularly to maintain mental health and well-being.

In order to do all of that, he will have to be self-motivated and be able to provide for himself. This builds into the next requirement, having a solid work ethic. A man who can work hard and improve his financial standing in life, will be well educated (degrees in well paying fields of study or through work experience, either can be profitable). He will endeavor to understand the use of money and investments, he will be good at budgeting his finances and managing his credit worthiness. He will have both savings and disposable income. He understands the value of experiences over the value of things.

He must also have some social ability. Ties to family or friends of value. An ability build long lasting relationships is a key indicator of a man’s ability to have long term committed positive relationships. A lack thereof is a giant red flag. In order to achieve this a man must have interests outside the home or office, such as travel goals, sports affiliations, hobbies, volunteer work, etc.

If a man can master these three aspects of his life, Physical/mental health, Financial health, and Healthy social interaction…

He will be the most attractive version of himself, because he will be genuinely happy with his life and secure in his ability to offer the greatest benefits to a romantic relationship. This will open opportunities to meet women of equal value and character. The sooner a young man dedicates himself to this path, the sooner he can hope to find a valuable lifelong romantic relationship.

Yes, all three of these aspects are necessary and inter-dependent. He can not master one without mastering all three.

Is any of this easy… no. Are some men born with advantages or disadvantages… yes. Life is not fair, and there are no guarantees to success. It’s never been that easy.

But all of this is the fucking TRUTH. Deny it all he wants, but a man who can not face this will never find the mountain top he seeks. He will compromise his goals and efforts for less than his full potential. His dissatisfaction will be never ending and he will seek to blame others for his own failings and lack of will.

Zero-WoIfe · 2022-08-16T00:12:45+00:00

Who cares? Why is men’s character being called into question? The fact that our reaction to narcissistic and masochistic behavior is under scrutiny but not women’s bizarre mate selection is what we should be discussing.

WOPR-1983 · 2022-08-16T02:56:59+00:00

Women have a primal directive to be very covert about their real intentions because in ages past, if they were "brutally honest" that honestly would have gotten them brutally killed.

Now, today, their fears of "death from rejection" are probably over-stated, but this is a primordial fear.

I think the only solution is to combine gaming with cybernetic attachements that give undesirable men a "I can't believe I don't actually have a girlfriend" pseudo-sexual experience. The pioneers of this (Try this game and you'll come in 30 seconds) are a laughing stock now, but this is the way of the future.

We need a way for undesirable men to be sexually satiated and keep working, paying taxes and supporting the gynocentric economy.

But, so long as we single these men out and shame them, we can't get them to like their station in life: Keeping paying, but sorry no playing.

Da_Famous_Anus · 2022-08-16T03:36:01+00:00

Replace brutally honest with just honest at all.

dunamo · 2022-08-16T04:00:04+00:00

(*for the most part)

Women want 2 different things at 2 different times.

As a result of this biological imperative and societal expectation, they are left with internal cognitive dissonance. So for the most part they cannot even accurately describe what they want.

And if a women is self aware to this fact, and aware of the attraction mechanisms of both, she still would not disclose it as it would hinder suitors from both types.

Pulloutprince · 2022-08-16T04:25:23+00:00

Highly doubt it. If they were honest with most men, they would just be called liars or the reaction would be a lot more adverse than letting someone down easy

JustSmores · 2022-08-16T04:28:40+00:00

I post in a weird attraction thread and I get a dm calling me a fat ugly lying whore. Do they do that to their dream girls when they say they like nice guys?

Head-Language-2977 · 2022-08-16T04:39:35+00:00

Yes, but why does it have to be women in general. Perhaps these hard life lessons could be avoided if wisdom was given by the woman closest to young men in their lives, their moms.

2022-08-16T04:39:51+00:00

I think it'd probably be the first step to detaching male self-worth from sexuality. Since there'd be very little confusion as to the fact it has nothing to do with one's personal worth.

A lot of men are reacting poorly to the current state of affairs because they put their hopes on the wrong horse and feel burned, but you can't dash hopes that were never there in the first place.

Blakkktruths · 2022-08-16T04:47:32+00:00

Theirs a pattern of some women preference-ing themselves into a corner and consequently complaining about that subset as if it’s representative of the whole. The power to choose something comes with the responsibility to choose wisely.

PrinceBagratoni · 2022-08-16T06:44:03+00:00

I don't think women are dishonest about it. They say they'll like or maybe just tolerate guys who they aren't attracted to because men can compensate with providential traits.

lkjhgfdsaa · 2022-08-16T07:30:05+00:00

Honestly, even if women were honest would men believe them? No.

Women have said repeatedly - the whole “tall, six pack, chiselled jaw line” is entirely the male gaze and not what most women find attractive (Harry Styles anyone?). Women like “dad bobs”. Women like kind, attentive, and emotionally aware men.

But of course. We’re lying. The reason some men struggle to find a partner is nothing to do with their horrible personality but because they don’t look like Chad. That’s much more palatable, isn’t it.

2022-08-16T08:30:08+00:00

I mean, they are all over social media talking about their preferences in men so...

Antonija_Blagorodna · 2022-08-16T09:48:21+00:00

Women being "brutally honest" would just be them echoing Red Pill sentiments.

"Face, physique, attire, personality." That's what brutally honest women would say matters, which is what RP also says matters. RP is just the inner thoughts of women that they don't want to say out loud because they don't want the ire of angry men.

Lamebrain_nz · 2022-08-16T12:06:34+00:00

men simply can't handle the brutal truth of female (human) nature...

Wow, there's a lot packed in there.

So what's worse? Women lie to cover up their nature, we get mislead and end up pissed off?

Or, women are honest about their nature (provided they can even see it) and potentially get much less interest from men that maybe decide "fuck this shit I'm out." You can say that "fuck this shit i'm out" = "men can't handle it" but I'd rather be accused of making an informed decision than being a duped and then called a stupid pussy when I bail out.

I would like to use a personal work story to illustrate.

I started trucking a few years ago. Truckers are pretty much expected to work 9-11 hours a day often many work 10-12. I don't want or need that not than I'm a widower. So when covid was over I applied at a local place that always seems to be dying for new blood. During negotiations I was straight up with the boss/owner - I only want to work approx. 10 hours/day in a 4 on 3 off configuration. That puts me at 40 hours a week. That is a full time job by anyone's standards. I also explained that I know there will be times when i have to push harder and that (in winter) there will be a bit of a slow down. I just wanna make sure I'm clear that after 40 hours I'm gonna start getting ticked off. I'm 47, I can't work like I did decades ago.

So anyway, he agrees. Great. I was honest and he accepted. So, fair deal right?

Well, he didn't tell dispatch about our deal. Seems like every week I'm still chasing that third day off. It's like every week I'm going "So, can I have x day off" and more often than not I'm hearing "not this week".

They've recently had a new batch of drivers and I've been bumped into our worst truck because it's manual and the new guys can't drive standard. I feel like I'm being punished. I feel like the boss agreed at a time when maybe he was desperate. I've been there 10 months, this situation has been going on for a month.

Maybe it's just temporary (that's what dispatch tells me) but it's getting fucking old. I just emailed my concerns to the boss this morning because I took the day off because this truck is kicking the shit out of me physically.

The thing is that, we made a deal fair and square. He could have said no. He could have told dispatch. However, if it turns out that I am being punished/pushed out, well, what the fuck? I could have kept looking? I could have found more suitable employment. Was he just desperate so he agreed to 'just get someone' and 'deal with it later'?

Seems to me women are doing the same sort of shit. They talk like "I want a man that's a good communicator, emotionally and financially stable" and then we see who they are/were fucking and having kids with. The actions don't match the words. And they also deny hypergamy.

Of course they deny it. It sounds awful. Why would they want to admit they want a man that's better than them in socio-economic status and that's hotter too. That's admitting that 1. they're lesser than the guy they're with and 2. they're kinda greedy/entitled/shallow.

So they lie to appear to be a better person. This doesn't do anyone any good. Men get misled and duped and end up failing to meet her standards. She doesn't learn anything about herself, her needs/desires or her actual market value. She's just faking it to get the 'employee' and it's doomed to fail unless HE (of course it's his fault) doesn't 'step up'.

She's changing the deal but it's his fault. It's crap. And it's driven by her selfishness and need to appear as a 'good person'.

If things at my company don't straighten out, I'll have to look for other work, or worst case, I'll get fired. I won't get employment insurance if I'm fired or quit. So basically i'm trapped. Why? Because my employer was desperate? Because he couldn't say no? so I have to suck it up or I must face the consequences.

Gee... what a fair deal. /s

Grassfedlife · 2022-08-16T12:36:08+00:00

As long as anyone externalizes the responsibility of their own emotional well-being, there will be outward violence towards the group perceived as causing the problem. It’s not just a man v. woman thing but in this context us men need to be willing and able to take a damn hard look at ourselves and honestly assess whether we feel good about ourselves or not. If not, be proactive and do something about it. You are the only one capable of making yourself happy so be responsible for your own happiness.

Alvorek94 · 2022-08-16T14:52:26+00:00

Would things really be "better off" if women were more brutally honest about what they like/find attractive?

No, this is what dating would look like if women were brutally honest.

Polite Woman: "Josh, thanks for taking me out to Applebee's last night, that was really sweet of you. I'm not really looking for a relationship right now, but if you want we can still be friends."

Brutally Honest Woman: "Josh, thanks for taking me out to Applebee's last night as i'm broke and need a man to buy me free dinner from time to time. Regarding the date, considering that you're morbidly obese, dress like a 10 year old boy, have a weird and childish obsession with My Little Pony, and make weird noises with your mouth whenever you eat, I have no interest in either a romantic or sexual relationship with you. But you're always welcome to enter my friendzone if you'd like."

AwakenTheSavage · 2022-08-16T16:29:27+00:00

Most men can’t handle it.

InfamousBake1859 · 2022-08-16T16:40:34+00:00

Just ask us. Lol. But half of the time, guys are like “women don’t know what they want” even after we tell you.

GlamSunCrybabyMoon · 2022-08-16T16:41:08+00:00

Women can be as brutally honest as they want but I think that they will not be listened to and be told “no! Women think xyz!” by (some) men. I see so many post here where women describe what they want and what they find attractive and it seems to get ignored. Like obviously women have different tastes in men.

I don’t think (some) mens egos can handle that they’re not getting turned down because they’re 5’8 or they don’t make 100K a year, its easy to accept that women are chad chasers and you’re not a chad, they’re getting turned down for who they are. It’s easier to accept that you’re getting turned down for what you are (what you can’t control) rather than who you are (something that you can work on)

loganmacoy · 2022-08-16T18:56:28+00:00

IMHO, this is how I see it, as a man ...

If a woman dates a man but she finds out "no interest", then pay for your own food.
If women reject men because of their height or money, then it is ok to reject women because of their age or weight.

zerofeetpersecond · 2022-08-16T00:09:01+00:00

..."just be more honest with us guys and we won't be as angry..."

That is not the point. The point of honesty is that all societal illusions about women must be dispelled. The women are wonderful effect must be destroyed. Female privilege must be dismantled.

Why?

Because "equality" and because "fuck em".

Vtridolla · 2022-08-16T00:09:18+00:00

Nah, too much truth hurts.

2022-08-16T00:23:35+00:00

Brutal honesty is always superior to sugar coated lies.

LotBuilder · 2022-08-16T00:42:38+00:00

I think it would be a bumpy transition but at the end of the day it would be better for everybody to be honest. Compassionate, but honest. I’ve done fairly well with women over the course of my life because I had five sisters and they didn’t hold back. If I wore a stupid outfit or got about a bad haircut I was immediately be laughed at and told how to fix it. “You look stupid, go change.” Did you shower? “Shower again , gross” Of course it’s a little bit embarrassing in junior high and high school but it’s better to be embarrassed at home and somewhere else.

FatGimp · 2022-08-16T00:53:54+00:00

I'd rather someone be honest with me than string me along with hope.

In my experience it seems to be women trying to act like they're being nice while using psuedo-compassionate excuses rather than say "Hey sorry, I'm not feeling it and I wish you the best." Trying to be fake nice only leads me to think something fundamentally is wrong with me, when they're just picking the most attractive.

SnooCats37 · 2022-08-16T00:00:22+00:00

Women haven’t got the luxury of being brutally honest. It would be dangerous for women to be like that. When letting men down, women have to be nice about it and they are still likely to be verbally abused if not worse.

I’m sure the men on here will openly disagree with this but you know, truth doesn’t always sit well with people

MickIsBlue · 2022-08-16T00:27:19+00:00

Would things really be "better off" if women were more brutally honest about what they like/find attractive?

Aren't they already? Isn't silence sometimes more direct than aimed words?

NockerJoe · 2022-08-15T22:48:56+00:00

Honesty is fine... if there's a way to navigate it. If theres something people can do they should have that information. But a lot of people treat brutal honesty as an excuse to just infodump with no real organization and a lot of people here will get mean about it specifically to hurt the opposite sex.

CocoBabeNYC · 2022-08-15T23:29:51+00:00

No, guys would still be too lazy and attached to their nice guy persona to actually change for the better. And by better I don't mean morally more wholesome, meaning being more sexually attractive to women.

AlejandroVillegas · 2022-08-16T00:44:22+00:00

In theory, yes. In practice, No. They'd be vilified. Either way, they can't win.

MarBitt · 2022-08-16T05:27:56+00:00

A woman's honesty would certainly be welcome as long as the men could tell if the woman used her mouth or her ass. Honesty shouldn't be used as a cover for shitting on men.

ruboyuri · 2022-08-16T01:01:08+00:00

We already are, but get called liars or are expected to be perfect/speak for all women/be accountable for all women

I’ve never been dumped, and every guy I dumped knew full well why I dumped them. They don’t care to be better

Laytheblameonluck · 2022-08-16T01:05:32+00:00

Things would not be better off for women.

PissBottleRedditMod · 2022-08-16T01:07:59+00:00

lol they are honest, red pilled dudes just aren't motivated enough to change

if they were, they wouldn't be a bunch of red pilled dudes 🤣

SoIlikeMangos · 2022-08-16T01:09:07+00:00

Nah I don't wanna die.

zerofeetpersecond · 2022-08-15T23:56:12+00:00

Guys, do you actually believe the hateful rhetoric wouldn't be as bad if women were more honest with us? If so, in what way?

Yes, I believe that but there is a condition. I am 28 so it was way harder for me to accept and swallow the bitter truth. My hope is that if boys get taught this during puberty they might be more likely to either accept defeat to focus on rather accomplishable things or work on improving themselves the best way possible to attract a woman.

Eh, I'm starting to have doubts about that. As much as guys insist they want honesty it sure seems more and more like men simply can't handle the brutal truth of female (human) nature...

I agree with this as well and I have seen it happening that men lashed out at women who brutally stated the infamous "666" preferences. I suppose the bitter truth is especially hard to accept for us men who are in their 20s and above because at those ages we are pretty much saddled in our believes and world views.

parahacker · 2022-08-16T00:03:53+00:00

Well, the first step is to admit you have a problem. But it's only the first step.

So yeah, honesty would be good, but you're right - it wouldn't fix the absolute nuclear wasteland that is modern dating. You'd have to then change the problematic behavior, once everything were out in the open and the risk/reward analysis made clear.

Then the 'hateful rhetoric' would probably die off some. Worth trying, I'd say, if that's really your goal and you don't just want an easy way to close your eyes and block out your ears to all the complaints happening.

In other words, it ain't enough to admit you're being assholes, you also need to stop being assholes. Pardon the bluntness.

That being said, 'being more honest' is still the first thing that needs to be done.

2022-08-16T00:18:41+00:00

I mean, as a guy, most reasonable men I have seen in person are fine with constructive criticism and appreciate a woman's word and choices, they are empowered to choose and expect certain standards. PPD bros are a different breed

Ian_Campbell · 2022-08-16T01:05:48+00:00

Yes, of course they would. When has lying to maintain a moral image ever done anything good? It is a selfish deceit people do for personal advantage

J-MAMA · 2022-08-16T01:52:38+00:00

OMG

YOU GUYS CANT GET PUSSY BECAUSE YOU GUYS CANT THINK OF WOMEN AS PEOPLE

some girls are attracted to Loki, some are attracted to Thor, the very rare breed might even like Seth Rogan

THESE ARE VASTLY DIFFERANT KINKS MY GUY

VASTLY MOTHER FUCKING DIFFERANT

you don't even see women as having fuckin individuality, personal taste or preference

You guys just don't get what the real issue is

You guys have so little fuckin experience with women you aren't even aware they have different likes and dislikes

I once met a hot ass bitch whose crush was PAULY SHORE

Google Pauly Shore zoomers and tell me where that fits on the lookism

My aunt had a crush on fuckin Adam Sandler and cried when she got a autographed photo of him for Christmas

It's not your looks my guy, it's the fact that you act like an alien whose never even met a bitch

Blaphrodite · 2022-08-16T10:42:45+00:00

False.

Men are angry because they can’t pick a woman off the streets and go off with her and do whatever they want.

They are angry that they need to learn social skills and relationship skills.

They are angry that they aren’t assigned king status and given a harem of willing women.

They can resolve their issues by being better humans but it’s easier to just be angry and frustrated with women/life.

Title	Would things really be "better off" if women were more brutally honest about what they like/find attractive?
Author	darkmoon09
Upvotes	191
Comments	488
Date	August 15, 2022 10:46 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/wpdeaq/would_things_really_be_better_off_if_women_were/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/would-things-really-be-better-off-if-women-were.1127886 https://theredarchive.com/post/1127886

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