CMV: In nearly every metric we can measure in the west, the average woman is outperforming the average man

Soggy_Head_4889 · 2023-08-24T01:33:24+00:00

Women aren't "oppressed" in the west, the myth persists because of the apex fallacy. Yes the average woman is doing better than the average man, but the top 20% of men are doing better than the average woman and the top 20% of women which is why people believe "oppression" is real. They see that most CEOs are men and assume it's because of "le oppression" while conveniently ignoring that fact that it's usually only men who are actually willing to grind hard enough to ever become a CEO.

ComfortableOk5003 · 2023-08-23T23:46:53+00:00

This post highlights that society in the west bends over for women at the expense of men

Independent-Mail-227 · 2023-08-23T22:41:53+00:00

I mean when you have the government giving you advantage on top of advantage is not this hard to outperform men.

It's like saying white peoples outperfomed black peoples in the apartaid.

Sabrepill · 2023-08-24T00:31:22+00:00

The west is a gynocentric fertility negative shithole. People aren’t getting married, divorce is through the roof, children aren’t being born, and the sexes are against each other.

What the west is good for is financial opportunity and living standards. When it comes to family, relationships, and birth rates as well “the war of the sexes” the west and also several advanced Asian countries are bottom of the barrel

One solution is to make money and build a life in the west and then find love and create a family in a non westernized country

NoCardiologistz · 2023-08-23T23:03:14+00:00

That's because you chose the metric where women outperform men.

Now choose metrics that men dominate. For instance, making fat stacks of cash, life sentences without parole, life sentences with parole, the number of sex offenders, the number of leading marine biologists, famous rose breeders, best mountaineers, best lion tamers, serial killers, and so on.

Men lead in plenty of metrics.

harmonica2 · 2023-08-23T22:53:43+00:00

I don't think the issue with dating as women are performing in the issue is that women and men have problem with this. When don't want to be the higher performers and they want hypergamy and so do men want to outperform them. If both genders could just be secure with the woman being the higher performer than it wouldn't be a problem.

blebbyroo · 2023-08-23T22:36:13+00:00

Education- recognises buys are falling behind and are trying to fix that. But at some point boys and parents of boys need to start to Take responsibility and pay attention and actually care about school.

College admissions - if more boys were finishing school and caring about going more boys would go. Start lower level intervention in middle schools and high schools to fix this.

College graduation- same as before if you have higher female admission logically you have higher female graduation

Under 30 outearning- same as before. There is a logical flow on. Still would be Interested in seeing your source I haven’t seen this and am curious

Homeless- men constantly say they are more willing to accept harsher and extreme conditions. Why would it surprise you that more homeless are men?

Suicides- huge mental health issues in every country and more needs To be done to reduce stigma and asking for help, but even today when therapy is so widely available and accepted men usually dismiss it as unhelpful before trying or without persevering.

Child support punishment- happens after a long time of no payment. Justice system- Agree than men shouldn’t be judged harsher than women

Reproduction- never will be equal because our biology is different it’s Inherently unequal

Safe havens- for newborns. A man who has custody of the child could do So it could put his kids up for adoption.

Men called creeps around children- so should change but only takes a few to ruin it for the many. And those few are too common unfortunately.

Draft- abolish for everyone.

Police brutality- should be heavily punished Th Scholarships- there are also many for men only. And lots for both genders to Apply. A quick search would have shown you both these facts.

AA- don’t know much about it but why criticise them for that, why not men rally more support for men as well?

Circumsicion - unusual in most countries now a days except the USA and even there it’s usually men still wanting it for their sons because they had it done. Most women will go with whatever the dad wants for the penis

Domestic abuse- this should change and we should all advocate for better protection for men

Abuse shelters- women started most dv shelters for women, why haven’t men ? More support should be given to men regardless, but most men still Out earning women and can afford to Leave abusive situations.

Dating- we all have our own advantages. Men traditionally had more advantages. It evens out eventually most people still end up married and with a family

Creepy-Substance7279 · 2023-08-24T09:17:22+00:00

Can anyone name all advantages Men have?

I would like to do a comparison.

lacuti3 · 2023-08-23T22:43:53+00:00

Women want it to be that way, everything you wrote. It’s women’s nature to use men to make their lives easier. They control society to make it happen.

richard_golbes · 2023-08-23T23:51:42+00:00

Women that can't afford their kids get government support. - Men that can't afford their kids go to prison

This is colossally stupid.

Women have reproductive rights before, during and after pregnancy

This is because women give birth.

Women can be around children without being called a creep

So can men.

There are multiple women only scholarships

There are all sorts of scholarships with stipulations based on identity. There are scholarships for men only too.

Women only business loans are available

Because women are underrepresented as business owners.

Laws protect women from any kind of FGM. Baby boys do not have bodily autonomy

Children in general have limited bodily autonomy. Little girls routinely have the ears pierced for instance.

Women in the dating world have a massive advantage over average men (to be fair, top 10% men have the most power here as most women are fighting for a top 10% man)

This is just nonsense.

In general, you bring up some good points, but sprinkling them into a Gish gallop full of red herrings, false-equivalencies, half-truths, and unhinged “Chad 10%” rhetoric renders the whole thing hard to engage with and comes off as unserious.

lolmastr13 · 2023-08-24T10:24:39+00:00

And yet women still report worse mental health 🤣

dyngladfel · 2023-08-23T22:28:34+00:00

You've conflated the west and the United States. Happy to refute some of these when you learn the difference.

Opening_Tell9388 · 2023-08-23T22:34:09+00:00

"Under 30 out-earning men (funny how THAT wage gap is ignored)"

Do you know what they are referring to when they say age gap? They are referring to the pay for the same job.

"Women that can't afford their kids get government support. - Men that can't afford their kids go to prison"

Incorrect. There are government subsidies for single fathers as well. I was raised by a single father.

"Women can drop their baby off at a safe haven if they don't want to be a mother. A father would be arrested for kidnapping if he did the same"

This isn't true. Unless you keep referring to men who don't have custody of their children. Which you would need to then compare them to mothers who don't have custody or else you're just being bad faith.

"Women are not forced to sign up for the draft and are not denied government benefits if they don't sign up"

We haven't have a draft in a while, also I'm sure every one is against the draft at this point.

Women have been oppressed for the vast vast vast majority of human history. Most of these are the actions to steer away from that path. Perhaps we are over steering but I don't think it's that bad.

ta06012022 · 2023-08-24T02:51:09+00:00

Under 30 out-earning men (funny how THAT wage gap is ignored)

It’s ignored because it’s not real. According to Pew “in 22 of 250 U.S. metropolitan areas, women under the age of 30 earn the same amount as or more than their male counterparts”. In the other 228 metro areas, men under 30 make more.

At a national level, women under 30 make 93% of what men make. That’s a smaller gap than you see in older age groups, but men still make more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/03/28/young-women-are-out-earning-young-men-in-several-u-s-cities/

wtknight · 2023-08-24T00:08:00+00:00

They can't lift as much weight, so men are likely still performing them in physical labor jobs.

When women get pregnant and have to leave the workforce to care for children, they fall behind male co-workers or women who chooose to not have children. This could affect their pay. This may be unavoidable, but is definitely a disadvantage that women have compared to men.

Most men still are in the highest level corporate position compared to women, and there are more male politicians in the positions of highest power than women.

Boys still outperform girls on the math portion of standardized tests.

moosemc · 2023-08-24T00:59:36+00:00

See, this is why nobody should cosplay social science.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-08-24T00:28:23+00:00

Education - Hey this actually sounds like something that should be investigated. Let's add that to the list of legitimate issues that we'll discuss at the end.

Income under 30 - "Men should be making more money than women at every age!" But of course, men under 30 just don't want to work as much or take dangerous jobs like women, right?

Homeless and suicides - Actual issues!

Government support - Lie. Both men and women are eligible for government support.

Arresting and sentencing - Actual issues!

Reproductive rights - An absurd lie. Men's reproductive rights are not violated in away, it's women's rights that are often severely restricted.

Safe Haven - Lie. Fathers are also able to drop babies off at safe havens

Women around children - Men are also able to be around children.

Conscription - I'm not sure how mailing in a card can be called "oppression." But not only are feminists in favor of abolishing the draft completely, but an effort to include women in Selective Service registration was shot down by...wait for it...conservative men.

Police killings - An actual issue! Once again, we see feminists doing more to stop this than any MRA group ever has.

Women only scholarships - There is nothing stopping you from offering one

Women only business loans - I actually can't find anything about this, source?

Affirmative action - So...affirmative action worked?

Duluth model - Ah, the old red pill boogeyman. Is Erin Pizzey going to be mentioned next?

Homeless shelters - Lie. There are many homeless shelters available to homeless men and DV survivors.

Dating - Red pill nonsense

So, I think we managed to tally up like 6 or 7 actual issues! Can I ask why feminism has done more for (some) of these issues than MRAs, red pillers, or other manosphere cult has done for any of them? There are some serious issues here yet if you were to listen to the discourse from these groups, the biggest issue is mandatory DNA testing and who pays for first dates?

And, of course, when you exclude every thing that makes women oppressed, it's easy to argue that women aren't oppressed.

CustomerSeparate949 · 2023-08-23T22:24:43+00:00

Ya, looks like things are getting better for women, yay.

Women in the dating world have a massive advantage over average men (to be fair, top 10% men have the most power here as most women are fighting for a top 10% man)

this claim I don't believe. Do you have any sources for this?

edit: my lazy ass scanned the information and I am completely wrong. There are so many claims here that need sources

BinCestCaLa · 2023-08-24T01:11:47+00:00

Bet OP is dying to experience periods, the sense of impending doom related to fertility (whether through fear of pregnancy, birth giving, or ticking clock), fluctuating hormone rollercoasters and neuroticism. He really is jealous about not having his taint ripped off from front to back, then sewn back while birthing a child. Oh how he longs for cracked nipples and milk-stained clothing!

He's probably very eager to have to spend hundreds on bras for his boobs. He just wishes he had to waste his hard earned money on makeup and hair, just so that he can actually reach those higher-paid positions and be considered knowledgeable.

Hmm yes, how life is sweet when you're a girl.

Uglypostwall · 2023-08-24T00:41:43+00:00

What can we do? God made us as the weaker and inferior gender. So, of course, we will use men

YveisGrey · 2023-08-24T03:22:53+00:00

When I see posts like this blaming “Western society” I have to laugh. Besides education, earnings and “reproductive rights” (which are purely consequential due to the inherent fact that only females get pregnant) most of the metrics you mentioned where women out perform men are true even in the most sexist countries. I’m talking like Saudi Arabia where women can’t even go outside, get a job, drive a car, or travel without a man’s permission. Pretty sure more men commit suicide, are homeless, do more jail time etc… in Saudi Arabia too, don’t think women there are being drafted either.

Equal opportunity doesn’t mean equal outcome, in particular with education I think women and girls would have always outperformed men (on the aggregate) had they been given similar access to it. The environment for learning and the skills required are more prevalent in girls (listening, sitting still, paying attention, reading etc…).

Men still out earn women but I believe this is mostly due to women taking time from work to care for children. Otherwise in a knowledge based economy women will do well probably just as well if not better than men since physical strength and endurance isn’t required.

I don’t think our current society is anywhere near sexist towards men as many want to promote. There are still nations today that actively bar girls and women from education and an independent public existence. But y’all think VAWA = “reverse Afghanistan” (despite the fact that more women are killed by men than vice versa even with VAWA).

The level of delusion is astounding

statsfodder · 2023-08-24T11:16:01+00:00

OMG the misogyny!! Won't someone think of the children!!

Mental_Iron319 · 2023-08-23T22:45:26+00:00

If they didn't major to end up with worthless jobs 3/4 of the time maybe your first point would stand. Having a BA in journalism doesn't make you superior

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-08-24T05:14:26+00:00

*Most people in positions of power are men.

*Men are considered the default human, women are basically considered "2p".

*Men-only scholarships exist for men wanting to be teachers, therapists and nurses.

*Most entertainment is created for men and comes from male perspectives - most cinema of the past 100 years, comic books, video games, pornography etc. Which all have pervasive impacts on culture.

*Men commit 98% of the world's violence.

*Men still dominate industries with weath and influence (like business).

*Men aren't persistently sexually objectified by culture.

*The percentage of females murdered by an intimate partner is 5 times higher than for males.

*Men are less likely to be raped or sexually assaulted.

*Men aren't encouraged to be "innocent" and not know stuff whilst simultaneously being targeting and exploited based on that.

*Men are less likely to be hounded and denigrated for aging.

*Men are less likely to be victims of sex trafficking.

*Men are less likely to experience discrimination solely based on their gender.

*Men don't have to worry about falling behind in work or even being excluded from certain careers because of pregnancy and childrearing.

*Men don't get slut shamed for sleeping around.

*Men don't have to shave their entire bodies or be considered a slob.

*Men's right to vote isn't called into question, even to this day.

*FGM is much more severe for the girl.

*Orgasm gap.

*If women were as responsible for as many gun crimes as men are, there would actually be an emergency government meeting held to discuss whether it is safe to let women own guns 😆

*As men, you'll have the pleasure of finding most women attractive because most women understand what makes them attractive to men. For women, most men make little effort and are ignorant to women's perspectives because we're all raised to see male as default.

*Religion is still very influential to this day and most religion favours men.

God, these "woe is men" posts are common here. It's still a patriarchy my dude. Even if you do have issues. You're not gonna convince anyone observing the facts of power distribution in our society that you're actually the oppressed ones.

Women get the upper hand in anything and you freak out. Patriarchy has always been the same; it benefits a subsection of men at the expense of the rest and it does benefit women in little knock-on ways, like not having to go to war, for example. It's still patriarchy.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-08-24T00:55:59+00:00

What’s wrong with this? Men had the market cornered for hundreds of years. Why aren’t men celebrating the accomplishments of women?

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Safinated · 2023-08-24T02:17:51+00:00

As long as she doesn’t have a kid 🤷‍♀️

The gender pay gap (being paid less for the same job) persists

And women are targeted by men for murder, assault, rape and violence way more than the reverse

YveisGrey · 2023-08-24T03:28:35+00:00

In 2005 Max Schanzenbach found that "increasing the proportion of female judges in a district decreases the sex disparity" in sentencing which he interprets as "evidence of a paternalistic bias among male judges that favors female offenders".[10]

Apparently women get less sentencing because of male judges which makes blaming this problem on “feminism” hilarious.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentencing_disparity#:~:text=While%20the%20gender%20of%20the,suspended%20prison%20sentences%20are%20shorter.

basedmama21 · 2023-08-24T04:45:48+00:00

Women in the west are not oppressed at all, idk who on earth would try to change your view on this or why

Implentofhell · 2023-08-24T04:58:39+00:00

Women have complete dominance over men in the dating marketing. Their is no tbf. Average men and above average wilt before their options and privilege. Only literally the 10% supercede them and it's it not like they can't get something good they just can't have the luxury.

RavenWolf1 · 2023-08-24T05:05:59+00:00

And in many countries men have to go mandatory military service. Men die in war when most women flee from their country.

Ambitious-Knee7586 · 2023-08-24T05:10:20+00:00

So why the f are they complaining? Especially about equality? And being oppressed?

RavenWolf1 · 2023-08-24T05:19:12+00:00

Women have many biological advantages. They live about 7 years longer than men. Women have better senses. They smell are sharper, they see more colors and their touch is more sensitive. Women are more resilient to diseases than men thanks to their XX chromosomes. Women have about double amount more nerve endings at their genitals than man. I'm positive that women orgasm at average is way more powerful experience than mans but it is harder to achieve. There are so many things which tips the scales for women.

Men seems to want to deny these things but I think that females are actually biological default gender while male are actually offshoot of that because that brings more genetical diversity.

Males are actually unimportant and females are what matters and I think that this is core reason for patriarchal. Men's fear of women's superiority thus wanting desperately have control over it.

DzejSiDi · 2023-08-24T08:28:30+00:00

Sorry, this post is plainly stupid, this is just a set of cherry-picked informations that sometimes are linked to the claim in the title... and sometimes not at all, like this one:

Women can be around children without being called a creep

And you have listed so much handicaps, how receiving handicap after a handicap could be called "outperforming"??

No, women do not outperform men in any meaningful way excluding "Under 30 out-earning men", it is the other way around.

NataliaCaptions · 2023-08-24T08:51:21+00:00

And despite all this men are still happier and doing better choices for their lives How do they keep winning,lads?

Short_Record2443 · 2023-08-24T09:02:27+00:00

College is dumb, it's a giant ponzi scheme designed to put young people in debt... People need to stop looking down on trades and blue collar work that make more than most college graduates

Shazoa · 2023-08-24T09:02:41+00:00

Some of these things are quite US specific (circumcision, the draft, positive discrimination schemes, etc.), but many of the rest are prevalent across the west.

Unfortunately, most of those remaining differences are down to men. Suicide, drug abuse, violence, crime, and education - areas where men have awful outcomes. The state does little to help a lot of the time, or even manages to frustrate things, but the underlying cause does seem to ultimately be innate differences between sexes. Men are just more violent on average, and they direct this aggression towards other men a lot of the time as well. For example, on crime, look at the following:

Women are arrested less than men for the same crimes

Women are sentenced WAY less than men for the same crimes

Men are targeted and killed by police vastly more than women

75% of homeless are men

When men are more violent, more likely to abuse drugs, and more likely to engage in crime, all of these things become practically inevitable. A majority of homeless people have some kind of drug problem. In sentencing, men are more likely to receive a longer sentence due to guidelines weighing factors such as 'intention to cause serious harm' highly (for example, during a burglary men are more likely to do so violently). Police primarily deal with male criminals and more likely to encounter violent male criminals than female ones (though the police actually killing people is quite US centric - in the UK for example we had around 25 police killings in the decade between 2010 and 2020).

That isn't to say there isn't any discrimination going on. I bet there is. Especially with law enforcement. It's difficult not to tar all men with the same brush when the vast majority of violent crime is carried out by men. But even if we had a perfect system where everyone was treated fairly, you'd expect to see huge gaps where the innate differences between sexes become relevant.

itsokiloveu · 2023-08-24T09:09:25+00:00

A lot of these aren’t privileges, they’re called working hard. Graduating college? Not committing crimes? Getting scholarships?

Why do you think we need shelters for DV to begin with? Or government support for our children? Oh, because of men’s wrongdoings.

Why can women be near children and not be called creeps? Because statistically 99% of child molesters are men. Men are being shot by police more often because they are responsible for 93% of all violent crime.

Sounds like men should be making better life choices.

Lovemelikeareptile1 · 2023-08-24T10:25:39+00:00

So we outperform women in suicides, homelessness and murder rates? Your post is sus.

lighthub · 2023-08-24T10:53:30+00:00

Who makes the most money/lifetime earnings , pretty sure the data still says men. The data still says men have the top jobs and more money. Most rich people are men, white men specifically. Money is Life Fuel in this world. That is the result that really matters ( other than health.

Better school performance, Degrees, mean nothing without the money end result.

And you cherry picked on what you wanted highlighted. The usual HyperFocus on whats good women have while completely ignoring on the many bad that women face. The Usual bias and Filtered information .

Willow-girl · 2023-08-24T12:07:44+00:00

Well, guys kept telling us, "You go, girl" so we went!

Loveenglishpeople · 2023-08-24T13:06:26+00:00

Most of those rights are there because in the past women had no access whatsoever, no say whatsoever. While men had it all : education, college, child support, jobs, dating options, scholarships…

Captain-Stunning · 2023-08-24T13:28:56+00:00

Hopefully you recognize that many women don't approve of circumcision and believe in bodily autonomy for both men and women.

Also, women only have reproductive rights before, during and after pregnancy insofar as their state allows it. Do you think the women filing suit in Texas have reproductive rights?

Who makes the laws around here?

Odd-Luck7658 · 2023-08-24T18:15:00+00:00

Women make less than men in every age group. You were misinformed.

High_Pains_of_WTX · 2023-08-24T21:09:04+00:00

......aaaaand this is the fault of the women?

Title	CMV: In nearly every metric we can measure in the west, the average woman is outperforming the average man
Author	dotnetguy1032
Upvotes	265
Comments	492
Date	August 23, 2023 10:18 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/15zip3n/cmv_in_nearly_every_metric_we_can_measure_in_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-in-nearly-every-metric-we-can-measure-in-the.1229550 https://theredarchive.com/post/1229550

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