Daily Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2021-07-07T23:00:19+00:00

This daily thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc... in...

[–]SliptheWhichbladeN Maiden [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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Sings you're close to divorce:

You stopped arguing (completely): as a rule, this means that people know the result in advance and they do not even try;
There is a desire to win at any cost - the relationship turns into a competition, where everyone tries to prove that they are better, smarter, more adequate, and so on;
You want to provoke your partner (or they provoke you) - to have a quarrel, throw things, and so on;
Being around you partner causes stress (heart rate increases, blood pressure rises, mood gets worse);
You wear a "green mushroom" costume - you hide your real self, do not talk about what is really important to you;
You transfer close relationships to social networks (this is where you have intimacy, love and attention, and not in a couple);
Thoughts about leaving do not scare you, but please. Or they do frighten you, but the idea to stay scares you even more;
You find yourself a place where you hide from your relationship with your partner (children, relatives, school museum, caring for finches) - just to "see them less";
There is "me" and "you", or even the frightening "he" or "she", but not "we". For example, a partner says "let's hang a hammock at our dacha", and you think "this is your dacha, hang whatever you want" or "why is this our dacha? This is my dacha!";
You constantly "retreat": when your partner tries to hug you, get closer, stand next to you - and you unconsciously withdraw;
You do not want (or you can no longer) forgive or seek an explanation;
You always have a hard time in a relationship;
You often fantasize about how you leave, or about how your partner disappears;
You feel a surge of interest when someone talks about their divorce or breakup;
Your therapist asks you bluntly if you want to leave your partner, because you constantly talk about it 🙂

And in conclusion: sometimes we get out of the relationship very easily, and sometimes it is very difficult to do it. Whatever it is with you now, we wish you strength and self-support.
Article: Adriana Leto, Resource Psychology Project

[–]PickleLineSimp for Low N-Count women [score hidden] 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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The fact that you can't provide it means that your claim isn't reliable though and can be ignored.

I'll say it one more time before I block you, it's not my claim. In my first comment on the matter I said I thought I saw it here. I didn't say "but I know this fact to be true!"

And I followed it by saying I'd try to find it and let you know. You harassing me about it is ridiculous.

[You can just ask her. I think that her comment is neutral in terms of responsibility, as there's nothing to indicate "whose fault it was" or what they've tried to do.

That's the issue though. The framing places zero responsibility on herself and made it something that was happening TO her instead of something she contributed in fucking up.

I don't care about her specific situationI'm just wondering why this is always the way women frame bad relationships, as something that just happens to them, not something that contributed in fucking up

Okay, that'll do

Oh really because it's the third time I've said this exact thing at least and you keep bringing it up on completely unrelated threads. Why?

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I don't desire women to take no responsibility I expect it but I desire the opposite.

I was using your comment as a broader example, I wasn't specifically referring to only your comment. I'm sorry if that bruises your ego, that I wasn't only thinking about you.

It's like if I saw an article about a car crash and said "man why are car crashes such an issue" then the victim of the crash called me and told me I didn't have any balls because I didn't directly speak to them.

It's not about the one car crash or comment but about the issue as a whole.

I have never once seen any woman on this sub take responsibility for literally anything let alone a break up or divorce, they all speak about it as you did, as if it were an abstract series of events that happened to them instead of because of (partially or fully) them.

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[–]Historical-Agency334gale-shapley is optimal for the proposing gender. [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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I think going Dutch will get more popular in next years. Although it seems that it's pretty much a norm in some European countries already.

Considering approaching, I'd guess that most women just don't really have to do it. And people are lazy, they won't do things they don't have to and if they don't find them fun/pleasurable.

And women do work in demanding fields, I'm surprised that people here don't find nurses' job a hard one. Maybe it's different in the US, but in Russia they often have to do some heavy lifting, while they take care of patients. I've also seen some female plumbers and electricians in Moscow and that's cool. I'd rather hire a woman to do this job, as it would be safer for both of us. They face lots of sexism though and a lot of people don't believe they can do a good job. I've also seen quite a few female carpenters.

Women also work in farming industry and that's another physically demanding field. Plus, it often gets dirty. One of my distant aunts has a farm with ~20 cows, 2 large potato fields and also lots of vegetables growing. She takes care of it with her 2 daughters, there's no man in the family.

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I don't know why you think these are interchangeable words

Because they are. Most feminists are women. That should be obvious. The only "male feminists" that exist are either neutered men or PC bros who are using the feminist label to crush puss.

approaching men, paying for dates

If women did this it still wouldn't lead to "equality". Men benefit way more from approaching and paying for dates than women do; that's why they do it and women don't

Uh no. Women benefit more from men approaching and paying for dates than men do. If there were ever a valid reason for not doing it, women don't it because they're naturally more afraid of things like rejection and whatever other potential negative scenarios are floating around in their heads. Otherwise, they defer to scripted beliefs like "It's the man's job/women don't approach."

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There were exceptions among certain demographics. Younger women (ages
18-29) were more likely to identify as feminists (39%); as were women
holding a bachelor’s degree or higher (44%); women with no children
(40%); and Democrats (48%).

These stats don't add up though. According to what it says in your source, it sounds like women don't officially identify as "feminists" when questioned on a survey, but take it up on their mantle at other times, which is basically what I'm noting in my post - they're all fake feminists. They want the bennies that feminism and democracy are providing but they're default conservatives at heart when it comes to their personal well-being and interests, which also lines up with the stats.

Men who don't approach will never get laid.

So you're going to jump over the claim that women should approach more just to say that women aren't going to? Alrighty then.

Men who don't get laid have nervous breakdowns and feel suicidal. Source: incels.

Women who don't get validation have nervous breakdowns and feel suicidal. Source: women. Guess men can play the waiting game and wait for women to crack first.

Women only benefit from male approaches when they're the right kind of approach from the right kind of man.

No, women benefit in all ways from approaches. Even if they're not interested, those feelings of validation are like a fuel to women. Women also can simply date and take the benefits while offering nothing back via "sorry, I'm not interested but thanks for the free stuff and entertainment."

Women who approach get fuckzoned.

And men who approach get friendzoned. So what? Women's concerns are not more valid than men's are. We can say "boo hoo" to you just like women say "boo hoo" to us. Y'all are the ones who are trying to reserve the right to not approach or do anything that puts you at a disadvantage though. "That's the man's job."

Men don't value what comes easy to them

Oh? And women do?

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Women get fucked over when they date someone less appealing because plenty of humans are selfish by nature and the other partner ends up acting like he’s the better one because he got with her.

That ‘I’m better than you’ energy was an opposite and equal reaction to the ‘I’m doing you a favor’ energy whether you realize it or not.

You may not have been intentionally broadcasting it before you received what you could feel was the ‘I’m better than you’ energy but you did and he felt it, whether he recognized it for what it was or not.

Humans are selfish by nature, sure. And, no, I don’t know every little particular about your and his history but if you felt like that after you received his energy, you felt like that before; you just didn’t realize you were broadcasting it.

No one should get ever get into something with someone and feel like they’re doing that person a favor. It’s a recipe for disaster.

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 [score hidden] 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Allblackallamerican [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I’m not trying to belittle your “interpretation of the situation”, so to speak. But, energy is energy; you don’t easily manipulate and change your authentic feelings.

You said:

My first impression of the guy was that he was not my type but he was endearing and I shouldn’t be shallow. My last impression was that he was uglier than me, poorer than me, and everyone openly told me that he was below me in every way.

So, he shitted on you in reaction to you shitt in on him. You’re not going to agree with me, but your first and last impressions of this man are two sides of the same coin. They’re Heads and Tails. You said:

My first impression of the guy was that he was not my type but he was endearing and I shouldn’t be shallow.

I shouldn’t be shallow.

You had to pep talk yourself into entertaining someone you don’t normally choose. You had to pep talk yourself into choosing someone you felt was noticeably uglier than what you normally go for. You think he didn’t feel that? You think you were able to truly mask every single piece of that energy? Whether you meant to or not, you broadcasted an energy towards him that he felt slighted upon receiving and set out to show you better, whether he realized what that energy was or not.

My last impression was that he was uglier than me, poorer than me, and everyone openly told me that he was below me in every way.

This, again, is simply confirmation of what was felt in your first impression. It reads the same, just different words.

I shouldn’t be shallow

He was uglier than me.

Below me in every way.

Recipe for disaster from jump street.

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 [score hidden] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Not sure why you’re trying to pin this differently than how I’m honestly speaking it as.

I used to be very egalitarian when dating and as long as they were normal, nice, and educated, they were just as good as a Chad to me. It’s not farfetched that my last impression of someone would be entirely different than my first impression. It’s no different than a guy getting cheated on and then proceeding to say, “she wasn’t that pretty anyway.”

You’re almost painting it as though I deserved to be treated ill, when I came into the situation with him with no intent. I don’t think settling is okay, and I didn’t feel like I was settling at first until he treated me unfairly. You know nothing about the situation. I slept with him the third time I had ever met him and complimented him because that’s what I do to people I’m emotionally attracted to. I’m telling you I felt x way, and you’re trying to tell me no, you felt y way. That’s not really a good basis for an argument. Done with this conversation.

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Not to dismiss your point, but I feel celebrities aren't really a good gauge of such things, as they typically spend fortunes to look good; it's why I always get a chuckle out of manosphere types using George Clooney as an example, as though he hasn't likely spent exorbitantly to maintain his hairline and skin, and on the trainers and dieticians that keep him camera-ready.

That said, I always found the idea of "the wall" as a set age kinda strange, since it seems to just be the point at which someone's lifestyle catches up with them. Personally, one of the hottest women I know in person is in her 40s, and I even knew a woman in her 60s I'd have been into. I'd wager a lot of people that have hit "the wall" could get themselves back into a semblance of good looks by getting in shape, and maybe pursuing some surgical touch-ups.

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That’s a racial issue. Ike and Tina were both black, and doing music at the exact same time, but she took all the glory. No racial politics involved, people just felt like opening doors a for her and closing doors on him.

Just as they opened doors for Justin Timberlake and closed doors for Joey. Or opened doors for Diana but closed doors for The Supremes. Or opened doors for Teddy Pendergrass but closed doors for Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes.

The person with the star appeal gets the glory. That’s how it always works.

Ike is a talent. But he has the energy of producer, not a superstar.

People need to be okay leaning into their gifts.

And not everyone has the magneticism of the star. And nothing can force that.

Him having personal mental health and anger management issues is very unfortunate and not something you should judge him too harshly on.m

It is unfortunate. But my compassion is more visceral for those he abused. Tina also had a very, very rough upbringing. Dad was abusive. Mother abandoned her. And yet she wasn’t abusing others.

[–]Allblackallamerican [score hidden] 5 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Ike is a talent. But he has the energy of producer, not a superstar.

Here’s where I disagree with what you’re saying. It was that way back then because that’s what the industry deemed it to be. But, for the last 30 years or so, producers have been able to be producers and superstars all the same.

Teddy Riley.

Jimmy Jam and Terry Lew.

Rico Wade & Organized Noise

Puffy.

Dr. Dre.

Timbaland

Swizz Beatz

DJ Drama

DJ Khaled

The-Dream

Among a few others as well.

It isn’t that Ike didn’t have superstar energy, producers weren’t allowed to shine in that light in Ike’s day.

There’s a whole slew of superstar producers in today’s game from Metro, to DJ Esco, 40 and Oliver, Wheezy, Tay Keith, and Pi’erre Bourne. That’s because the current industry allows producers to shine as well as the vocalists now.

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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you have to be like Slash

Or you can, you know, be like Eric Clapton. One of the best guitarists in the world, who dresses like the respectable 50+ year old that he is

That star appeal shit is lame

You’ve clearly never seen The Rolling Stones in concert. I never even noticed the other guys, I couldn’t take myself eyes off Mick. He is maybe the best frontman of multiple generations, and deserves every second of success he enjoyed. Same with Tina and Cher (Tennille is basically forgotten)

Talent is talent, and holding the attention of thousands of people simultaneously is a fucking talent

Beethoven was a crusty old dude when he was writing his best stuff

Ed Sheerhan is one of the most unfortunate looking people I’ve ever seen - and a ginger, to boot - yet still has massive success because of his musical talents + star appeal

Prince … had to prance around like a male prostitute to get his career popping

Prince’s fashion was intentional. He gave many interviews talking about how he enjoyed what he wore - he could have given it up when he got famous (like Gaga has), but didn’t

That man was a stone cold musical genius though. No argument there

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[–]Allblackallamerican [score hidden] 5 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

If you’re going to filter based upon strict ass physical requirements, don’t be surprised, indignant or offended when those that you choose to entertain don’t give a fuck about you beyond your physical pleasantries. You’ve already denied lesser physically appealing people who potentially possess a very in depth mental acumen the opportunity to learn more about you on a mental and emotional level, so why should the man that met your strict physical requirements be concerned with your mental and emotional depth?

Understand that just as you believe men who aren’t able to have sex with attractive women aren’t deserving, you yourself aren’t deserving of anymore than what is being presented to you as your options to choose from. There is nothing that says that you’re entitled to some level of men based upon being a woman while men aren’t entitled to being with a certain level of men based on being a man. This is where things equal out. We all have two worths as humans, our inherent worth that no one can take from us as well as our relational worth that is not decided by oneself but the world around the individual. If you’re only being presented the option for commitment from those who you feel are beneath your worth, it’s because you’re unsatisfied with your worth. That goes for men and women.

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Hoes be prudes til it’s a n*gga they like or find attractive

Again this is me being classist, but off bat, he sounds like an idiot. Same way I felt about the chick.

Outside of the “hoes” and “n*gga”, it’s the “be” for me.

I’m Black. I know how “be” is used. We will just have to disagree that he isn’t being bitchy about women behaving differently around different men.

That’s the inference of his tweet.

If he was not being derisive toward women he would have said something like, “Women don’t want to have sex unless she finds him sexually attractive.” Which is fair of her.

He’s getting the responses he’s getting because everyone else picked up on the sub/shade.

The chick you linked replied with that tweet because she’s drilling home the bolded of what I just said.

[–]Allblackallamerican [score hidden] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi [score hidden] 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Well since you’re Black, how you doin, brother/sister?

Yo yo

Anyways, I don’t believe he was speaking out of bitterness, he was speaking out of a general musing.

We disagree here. I think he may have been generally musing, but it was an indictment on female behavior.

Nobody would’ve had an issue with the sentence had it come out of Future or Youngboy’s Twitter account.

Women always have an issue with it lol.

They piped up at him simply because they feel he’s too unattractive to speak on ‘women’s business’.

No. Because he was being bitchy.

As far as the wording goes, niggas use the word ‘hoes’ all the time with no true sense of maliciousness. They actually tend to use it in a more jubilant sense than they are given credit for.

I explained above that “hoes” and “n*gga” wasn’t why the phrasing felt bitter. Thought I highlighted that explicitly?

I did imply that use of “hoes” and “n*gga”sounds trashy. But that’s the inner Denise Huxtable in me being classist. I recognize there’s no true maliciousness with those terms.

[–]Special-Armadillo-99 [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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Half the young male population is not sexless though. Why do you guys keep twisting the stats to push an agenda?

However, two other large surveys, the National Survey of Family Growth (NSFfG), and the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES), also ask about sexual behavior. Their results do not confirm the trends seen in the GSS. However, they also have slightly different questions and slightly different survey populations, so they may not be directly comparable.The NSFG, for example, shows a far higher rate of sexlessness to begin with.

The graph above shows that while there’s some reason to think a growing share of never-married young men is going sexless based on GSS data, it could be that the sexless share among these young men is about stable, as the NHANES shows, or even falling, as the NSFG shows.

The incel account of events thus far is maybe true in the GSS, but faced strong rebuttals from the NHANES and NSFG data. Not a glowing endorsement of the incel narrative!

Even the GSS did not show half of young men being sexless:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/b93x9k/people_are_misinterpreting_that_washington_post/

[–]808randomaccount [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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Basic thinking does not tell us that if you are comparing two different studies with two different populations (us vs uk)

You lack basic reading skills as well as I did not in fact compare two studies. Uk pegged incel rate at over 50% while the commonly accepted one had it at 30% if we take that lower number as true then it is probably higher then that who had sex once but still struggle.

with different sample sizes done at different time periods (pre COVID vs during COVID).

the Uk data set was from 2019 (pre covid) but go ahead and try to discard it anyways.

The social scientists is making that assumption based on hard data he has reviewed from several studies that specifically looked at sexlessness. The fact is two other studies with larger sample sizes didn’t find a sexlessness epidemic and showed sexlessness has either remained stable since 2000 or even decreased.

social "scientists", regardless one study doesn't disprove the others and most would agree that it is rising not decreasing.

[–]SowClips [score hidden] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You lack basic reading skills as well as I did not in fact compare two studies. Uk pegged incel rate at over 50% while the commonly accepted one had it at 30% if we take that lower number as true then it is probably higher then that who had sex once but still struggle.

The commonly accepted number comes from the GSS study which is flawed and results were contradicted by two other studies, that I quoted above.

social "scientists", regardless one study doesn't disprove the others and most would agree that it is rising not decreasing.

That’s not how science you need data to prove your assumptions not your feelings. Reality is the often cited GSS study that used to prove a sexlessness epidemic was contradicted by two larger studies from the NHANES and NSFfG. You not liking this doesn’t change that these are hard facts.

Btw prostitution is perfectly legal in the UK and in other European countries near the UK too. I thought you guys said prostitution would decrease sexlessness?

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Women don‘t like sex as much as men, period.

I am not exactly sure what is going wrong (although I have ideas) but for some reason a lot of women don‘t build a healthy sexual identity for themselves.

Almost all sexual active women have some form of weird psychological trauma which results in fantasies that they are ashamed of but certainly need to live out. There is always some weird psychological powerplay behind it, they can‘t just like sex for what it is.

Women that have a lot of sex with different men are all basically psychologically damaged. Never in my life have I met a woman that is able to have a NSA hookup and not regret it afterwards. Except if the man is immensely attractive AND good enough in bed, then it‘s not seen as a „fail“, although they probably still regret it.

It seems like the only other way women are sexual is if they „love“ someone or they get money through it.

A womans sex drive is a labyrinth to figure out, and the worst of all is women nowadays expect men to figure it all out FOR THEM. Everytime you want to have sex with a girl, find out her childhood trauma, subconscious fears, and dare you do something that’s not exactly her cesspool of fucked up kinks, you are the weirdo not her.

[–]DespondentColorsnot like other girls [score hidden] 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi [score hidden] 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think it’s that deep. It’s simply men and women are different.

On average, men and women do not have the same compulsive drive for sex. That’s science. Testosterone does not lie.
It’s true that when women are turned on, she can crave sex insatiably and want to fuck for a marathon 3 days in a row or something. But I promise you on that fourth and fifth day she’s satiated. Whereas he can likely go for it again. Meanwhile she may not desire sex in that lustful animalistic way for another few weeks or month or several. That’s not to say she won’t acquiesce to him initiating or instigating sex, but that “crave” isn’t there 24/7 like it is for men.

And lots of people have traumas.

Women may have slightly more sexual traumas, relative to men, but that’s because we are continually interacting with ppl who want sex more than us and who want to leverage every manipulation in the book to penetrate us. Women who acquisece to being penetrated when she isn’t in the mood tend to build resentment around that.

Anyway men have lots of baggage and traumas too, but perhaps around other issues.

[–]thelajestic [score hidden] 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]throwthisaway11800misandry is my kink [score hidden] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

But then why are so many women constantly complaining about ONS?

„one night stands suck because men don‘t care about female pleasure…“
„all men just wanna pump and dump…“
„no man wants to stick around after sex…“
„men only want one thing and it‘s fucking disgusting…“
„let‘s withhold sex for 3 months…“ -…

The women I talk to IRL all have the same complaints: hookup culture sucks, ONS is nothing for them, etc etc.

If you actually never regretted a single ONS (even a lot of guys regret ONS)… you are just an exception, that‘s literally all there is to it. But talk to women, what do they think about ONS?

Anyway, your argument is basically the same as „bUt nOT aLl MeN…“. It‘d be nice if you actually tried to argue my points instead of just arguing for the sake of it.

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Yup that is very true. There seems to be a huge discrepancy between submissive men and dominant women. Very rarely you find an actual dominant woman that doesn‘t do it for money. At the very best you’ll find a switch, or a woman who compromises on behalf of her actual desires in the relationship.

I kinda grew up thinking all people are demisexual. Obviously I didn’t know the word though. My parents told me when I was little that a baby only appears in the mothers belly just out of the magic of pure strong love between two partners. This is how I thought babies were made until i was like 12 lmao

Idk demisexuals r awesome but personally don‘t have good experience with em. I feel like there’s no spice, nothing physically enjoyable, it‘s dreamy but without the (for me) necessary fireworks. Maybe it was just the girl. The intellect and interesting conversations were there but the seduction was missing.

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I think a lot of women here have a weird impression that trad guys want an inanimate house slave

That’s not at all what I think. I told a trad guy on here a day or two ago that I’d probably be vocal about it if he didn’t want a trad girl - trad guys should be seeking out conservative, virginal trad girls

That aside, the issue I have with the guys is that they don’t understand what they’re getting themselves into

Women from traditional cultures (as in, different cultures, not American-bred cultures) expect a man to be masculine. Not a “fluffy pussycat.” A fluffy pussycat actually has a better chance with a Western woman who believes in egalitarian relationships

I’m not sure why these guys are expecting foreign women from traditional cultures to be ok with a decidedly unmasculine man. This is why there are so many mail order bride horror stories out there - these guys just broadcast “mark” and are taken advantage of

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I didn’t realize you were one too

I’m not, I’m first gen American. There are a few things that I culturally am more ex-pat about, but they tend to be female or FSM things (like how brutal my female relatives are about weight - it’s part of why I’ve always worked out so much and watch my diet). I’m as American as it comes - hell, I was raised on American military bases lol. I just come from a large ex-pat family

I don’t know what “handling business” implies

Exactly what any Westerner would think “handling business” implies - dealing with salespeople, contractors, doing repairs around the house, dealing with life’s inevitable confrontations, etc. Stereotypically male tasks

have women very interested in meeting them and talking to them simply because they’re American

Yes, and what is it about American men that those women like? Hint: it’s green

Which, again, I have no problem with. I’m more interested in the delusion that these men think the women are into them and the money doesn’t matter

He starts off at 0 with a girl who is already interested

He starts off at 0 if he paves the way with money

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I'm not one of those guys (I don't think there's anything wrong with marrying foreign women, but I think your first concern should be finding fulfilling companionship over someone financially incentivized to be with you), but...

You think she’s going to be giving eager porn star treatment

Most women aren't doing this.

be ok with you maintaining your current porn/stripper habits

We can see from the constant handwringing about men enjoying porn and sex-work (even the pro-sex-work women tend to hold those who partake in contempt) in nearly every online female space that no shortage of western women have a problem with this, sometimes to a deeply disturbed degree.

Are you really ready to pay a dowry to her family or continue to support them after marriage?

Lots of western women looking to bleed men dry too, and I think men would do well to be very cautious about this.

My take is that people everywhere suck, there's no silver bullet that will guarantee you someone who doesn't, and the only thing you can do is maintain hope and keep looking for the ones that don't.

[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Most women aren’t doing this

Because of the popularity of porn and comparative lack of stigma in Western cultures, you have a better chance at finding one here

We can see from the constant hand wringing about men enjoying porn and sex work … in nearly every online female space that no shortage of western women have a problem with this

I literally majored in Pornography in Literature. Plenty of us don’t care, and there are much larger numbers of women not caring in the West than anywhere else

Lots of western women looking to bleed men dry too

Never said there wasn’t. The difference is that their families aren’t in on it, with the blessing and expectation of the larger culture that will demonize you for not doing it

All of that said, I have zero desire to pit western vs foreign women - there are high value and low value women in each group. My point was the delusion of the men you see talking about it

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It is a question of comparison I guess. I cant say for other nations but our women are as bad as any other women. just more cost effective and better quality.

Brazilian women are usually better quality than western counterparts.
Brazilian women are WAY more likely to deliver the services their husband/bf demand compared to western counterparts. -Brazilian women are more sexual than western counterparts.
Brazilian women are satisfied with less than western counterparts.
Brazilian women are about the same risk western women counterparts.

Sure. the price to find a good brazilian chick when you can't speak the language and the risk of scam is big... but so is in the west... so... it makes sense to get the best bank for your buck if you gonna risk it anyway right?

they arent good per say. they are just better cost effective and quality comparatively

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Recent doctoral dissertation about Porn has me shook.

For male participants, viewing violent sexually explicit videos decreased their hostile sexism towards women
The level of sexual explicitness did not influence male participants’ hostile sexism towards women after viewing the sexually explicit material video clips.

No surprise. Here's where it gets fucking bonkers:

For female participants, their hostile sexism towards women was much stronger after viewing explicit and implicit sex video clips

When women watch porn, it dehumanizes and objectifies women for them. No such effect is found in men. Suddenly all the unhinged anti-porn rants from females make perfect sense. They project their perception of porn onto males.

There's larger implications here that I will not entertain yet; but this is a compelling case for how porn actually does harm women, and if confirmed certainly makes good sense for why women should be prohibited from watching it.

Edit: Another link

Edit2: Another link

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So women imagine

No, women don't imagine that porn dehumanizes women, because it literally does dehumanize women for women that watch porn. That's the assertion in the paper.

women imagine the excessive ED for men under 30, etc...

Yes I would say they mostly imagine it. Or what's more likely happening is they read complaints about it on social media from other women and make assumptions that these issues are becoming more problematic than in years past. Which is not clear to me.

find a way to be disrespectful to women

On the contrary, if it turns out that women are affected differently by porn than men (which obviously they are), its not anything that they control on a personal or even cultural level, but rather some innate evolutionary gender difference. "It is the way it is" so to say. Less blame either way. More acceptance.

[–]TakeThePinkPill1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This isn't imagined. First hand recounts from friends all discussion about running into young men with ED is a lot for common. This site that other guy shared collects studies that discuss the spike in ED and other sexual issues due to porn. I've known this 21 year old guy who admit to me he's been gorging on porn since he was 8 so he has trouble getting it up these days. He isn't the only guy who explained some version of this to me.

How does it serve you or any man to dismiss this just bc a woman is saying it. Why would we make this up? So strange.

As for more acceptance -- I disagree. This would mean it's a time for less acceptance. I don't care about blame, I care about outcome.

We already see the men self neutering with the porn addiction. Negatively affecting women too would not make me call for acceptance. In fact, those weirdo lib fems who keep trying to shove porn down everyone's throats already give me pause.

Idk about you but I don't want to see our society keel over in such a ridiculous way.

[–]geyges1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If you did your own research, (instead of lurking obviously biased websites that are selling shit), you would know that looking at porn studies is like digging through trash. There's very few decent ones, and there's as many that find correlations, as there are that find absolutely none. It's incredibly difficult thing to research.

But if you're collecting anecdotal stories, add this one to your book: I've been consuming porn for more than a decade and have way more issues keeping it down than keeping it up. My porn content preferences have not changed over that time; and I consider IRL intimacy way better than any porn ever made.

Idk about you but I don't want to see our society keel over in such a ridiculous way.

Here's an interesting fact you should consider: Rise of sexlessness in men. These are men who's dicks are quite hard, just nowhere to stick them.

And for women, the access to infinity of sexual partners should be proof enough that porn neuters nothing and nobody. In fact, if it did, it would probably be a positive thing for females.

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I’ve mentioned my sister a few times on here, though I keep details and most of the more horrific stories to myself. But suffice it to say that she is one of the more severe cases I’ve ever seen IRL. It doesn’t help that she learned very early on how to manipulate and lie to get her way

For my own mental sanity, I had to put a lot of distance - both physical and emotional - between us. Now, with both of my parents gone, I’m watching her burn through not only her inheritance but her kids trust funds … And I know the clock is ticking until she comes to me with both hands out. I’m dreading that day with every fiber of my being, because I know she’s going to find a way to make my life miserable when I refuse. But all I can do is try to foster a relationship with my nephew (she very clearly favors my niece, so the little man needs someone in his corner) and be there for the kids when the shit hits the fan

My experience with her has made me very, very sympathetic to men who date BPD chicks. There are very few life destroying things quite like a truly BPD woman - and it’s made even worse for the fact that they often come across as charming and passionate at first, not mentally ill

[–]ChibsFilipTelfordd1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Smart to distance yourself from her, i have a BPD or maybe MDD, GAD, Schizo or manic (we don't know) relative, and my dad helped her one too many times, which she of course squandered (expensive inpatient program she left), now the whole family except her amazing sister is absolutely distanced from her as well. My dad will no longer give her a penny, and that's beneficial for me and my sister in the future 😂

But yeah, she definitely will try to get you to give her shit if she's anything similar. I suggest indicating that you're flat broke or in debt, my dad heavily implied both, when he's neither.

And ah yeah. The girl i dated in HS who was super Borderline was very passionate at the start. Risky public sex, making out between classes in school, etc etc. Then she wanted me to do bdsm stuff to her and i felt too uncomfortable to do them properly, which pretty much was the wedge that broke us up, in addition to her mask slipping a bit over the 6mo ish we were together

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Could be.. Idk. Of course, he saw it as her being genuinely regretful. But he has a good heart. He's much kinder and more forgiving and trusting than i am, and always sees the best in people. Little does he know his inconsolable hysterics at finding out contributed to my likely never fully trusting anyone -- additionally because i met the girl, and thought she was a good person. The combination of seeing how he was impacted + my own inability to judge her character made my incompetence in that realm very clear.

Of course most men won't forgive. That's the point. I think she wanted to break up with him but was too cowardly to do it. I would never, ever forgive it.

They're back together now, btw, and i have to bite my tongue and pretend to enjoy the time i spend around her.

P.s.

This isn't "Chibs is a manosphere guy and he hates woman" deal either. I despise RP and I've had a woman even closer to me than him deceived in an even more heinous and damaging manner, by a man of course. The stats show men cheat more, except in one specific age bracket.

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This place is schizophrenic.

Men are tired of being used as resources. Women, ignore your career, marry young and let your husband lead. So I guess we should be sahm’s that live in a box outside our husbands house after we clean it?

Why do women want to assume roles previously dominated by men? Women are worthless to society and women’s work is useless. So we should “embrace our femininity” and accept that we are useless?

Women better never let their n count get too high, but they also better put out on the first date. And women are to blame if they end up with the wrong guy because we didn’t vet well enough. So we should have you throughly and correctly vetted before the first date is finished and decide you will be our first, last and forever dick before dessert?

And finally…it’s fine if men just see us as a wet hole. I mean if we were human beings like men it would be wrong……….but as horrible as we are, utterly lacking in empathy, completely without agency, boring, stupid, (can’t remember all the shit flung just today alone) etc. as long as we are young and hot, you still want to put your dicks in us, and that still makes you morally superior. You men aren’t shallow at all.

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Social media also only works by inference unless she’s written multiple posts openly describing her sexual escapades. For the most part, you’ll be doing the same thing as in real life: judging her as a slut based on what she looks like in pictures, who “likes” her posts, and what kind of clothes she wears. It’s not that you can’t tell anything about a person from their appearance, but it is curated, and you’re probably making some wild guesses based on very little.

And asking her about past relationships— ok, you can do that. It’s a bit of a ham-fisted way to get intel, doesn’t actually tell you about her sexual experience, and you’ll definitely be expected to reciprocate… that last one is an easy way to screw up.

Edit: and you’ll rarely find out for sure if you were right, meaning you aren’t able to test your assumptions most of the time, but rather just assumed you were right about them. So what you’re really choosing for in a first date is women who appear to fit your qualifications, not actually selecting for those qualities.

[–][deleted]-3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men are tired of being used as resources.

Unless

Women, ignore your career, marry young and let your husband lead.

Women better never let their n count get too high,

But if they do (ie, above 0, which odds are in current year that she does)

they also better put out on the first date.

If they've ever done so for anyone (which again odds are in 2021 she did at least once), and they won't do so for the specific guy, well she's free not to, and the guy is free to discard her immediately. Simple

it’s fine if men just see us as a wet hole. I mean if we were human beings like men it would be wrong……….but as horrible as we are, utterly lacking in empathy, completely without agency, boring, stupid, (can’t remember all the shit flung just today alone) etc. as long as we are young and hot, you still want to put your dicks in us, and that still makes you morally superior. You men aren’t shallow at all.

It's fine if women see men as a soft landing spot for responsibility and muh equal dishes after putting out in ten minutes for fun guy. Yes, of course a man should be more than happy to be expected to have a career and be responsible for sex every month or so.

Of course, even though she didn't expect the guy she fucked for nothing to do...well, anything, she's definitely going to hold out on fucking and possibly even leave equal dishes guy should he have the audacity to lose his job.

But of course that doesn't make women shallow because...reasons?

For marriages formed after 1975, husbands’ lack of full-time employment is associated with higher risk of divorce, but neither wives’ full-time employment nor wives’ share of household labor is associated with divorce risk.

Expectations of wives’ homemaking may have eroded, but the husband breadwinner norm persists.

Why wouldn't men beat down the door to be responsibility and dishes guy for some demanding, aging, boring, non-virgin who does not offer traditional roles while continuing to demand them from the man?

It's so tiresome when people, men and women, act so coy.

Relationships are transactional. A husband is a John and a wife is a hooker.

Get over it already goddamn.

As SMBC put it:

Sex!

Money!

We decided to keep our wedding vows succinct

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The definition of alpha widow according to The Godfather himself of redpill:

One of these maligned concepts is the phenomenon of the Alpha Widow. I’ve written extensively on this idea for well over a decade now. I’m fairly certain I even coined the term back in my SoSuave days. Back then Alpha Widow was a designation we used to describe a woman’s tendency to become fixated on an Alpha lover she had in her Party Years and still pined for him into her 30s or 40s after marriage. We didn’t just pull the idea out of our asses back then. We came to it because of the overwhelming number of married or LTR men who reported that their wife or girlfriend were pining for old lovers they thought were “the one that got away” or they left them to pursue a new relationship with an old flame.

Nothing about looks is mentioned.

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I feel that a cat has been let out of the bag.

Growing up, I remember the narrative was that women didn't care much about looks, were difficult to bed and required investment (casual sex was referred to as "getting lucky"). But we now know that this isn't universally true; many women will eagerly hop into bed with only minimal investment from men they find attractive enough (if you've had casual sex even once, this applies to you). So with this in mind, the previous offer of trying to impress a woman and make her feel special, all paid for out of your pocket, now feels like a slap in the face for a lot of men and an admission that they're not that interested in him.

This raises concerns about the quality of the resulting relationship (is it going to be an uphill struggle to keep a happy wife and thus a happy life?), her loyalty (will she just hop back on his dick if he becomes available again?) and even the paternity of any potential children (is she just going to use me to bankroll some bastard offspring?).

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The problem is if we acknowledge this then uncomfortable conversations are going to have to follow.

Not really. It’s time of exposure. If she spent months on end hanging out with the random groper on the bus, she’d be more likely to be beaten by him too, if he happens to be the kind of shitty guy who abuses people.

Likewise, the piece of shit abuser boyfriend probably doesn’t beat the shit out of random women he meets on the bus either, or even women he’s only been dating for a few weeks. He waits until the girlfriend is attached and unlikely to dump him to start escalating the controlling and violent behaviors. Not as some kind of like, plan, but because he gets more comfortable and controlling over her over time.

Abusers don’t show obvious signs of being abusers early in the relationship. And yeah, ugly guys can be abusers too: just being ugly doesn’t make someone automatically a better person, you know.

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There are always men here going on and on about how men aren’t attracted to women over 30, and ALL men just want 18-20 year olds all the time. But when I ask them why a young women would want to marry a man who will lose attraction to her when she turns 30, they are all “I said nothing about wives! You are putting words in my mouth!” Do they think a wedding ring keeps a woman looking young even as time passes?

If it’s love that keeps them attracted to their wives, that would keep them attracted to a romantic partner they meet in their later also. I highly doubt the age you married your partner has a magical affect of changing what you are attracted to. 35 year old men that are not at all attracted to 30 year old women and who marry a 20 year old will probably have a dead bedroom in 10 years.

[–]badgersonice2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Do they think a wedding ring keeps a woman looking young even as time passes?

It’s magical red pill “men are wonderful” thinking. They are so eager to paint women in the most negative way over biology, but if you say anything less than praising about male biology, and they suddenly start spouting blue pill “happily ever after” beliefs. Or they find some way to always blame the woman for the man leaving when she’s older.

I think they just want a young virgin so badly and want “fairness” in dating so much, that they’ve bought their own story that a woman who trades her youth and virginity will get a loyal loving enthusiastic husband for life. And sure, it happens for some women; and other women find out his passionate interest in her only lasts as long as she doesn’t have any grey hairs.

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Why? You think you look the same in your 40s as in your 30s?

No, but it’s closer than to how I looked in my teens! At least if a man is fucking me at 30 I would know he’s not one of these guys only into kids (teenagers).

There are limits of course. In general, age by itself won’t be enough to make the man stop loving you.

This would be true no matter what age he fell in love.

Men regardless of their age find 20yos as most attractive.

Sure, same with women too btw, because everyone looks best in their 20s. But I’d prefer to only marry men who are also attracted to women their own age. I don’t have to be the most attractive person in the world to my husband, but he should be attracted enough to me that he fucks me regularly and enthusiastically and doesn’t want to cheat on me with someone younger.

[–]TheJim660 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

At least if a man is fucking me at 30 I would know he’s not one of these guys only into kids (teenagers).

That's quite the thing to be paranoid about considering how few men only like teens.

This would be true no matter what age he fell in love

The older you are the more likely it is you'll get uglier faster than what's needed for the man to develop wife goggles.Anyway, post wall women lose out because their competition is younger, tighter, lower n, more pleasant women which higher value men prefer. Losing his attraction after getting a dude is secondary to that.

Sure, same with women too btw, because everyone looks best in their 20s

Nope, women consistently find men a few years older than them most attractive.

I don’t have to be the most attractive person in the world to my husband, but he should be attracted enough to me that he fucks me regularly and enthusiastically and doesn’t want to cheat on me with someone younger.

That's most men.

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Here are some direct quotes to me by a man on this sub just yesterday:

Fact any man of value has no interest in a 35 year old career woman he has tonshare with her company. He's interested in the cute younger receptionist.

Here’s some from other dudes earlier:

redpill teaches you to be a masculine man and to avoid post wall (over 30 women).

—

The wall is 25. But men will still pump and dump up to 35.

In response to the question “does every woman become a fat old hag at thirty?”:

Hag? Yes. Fat? No way of telling that, but I wouldn’t doubt it.

—

Also you forget the wall. That hot 20 year old will turn into Karen after 10-15 years. So even guys who win end up screwed in the end.

—

I’m in my late 30s, and it is literally almost impossible to find a woman my age who is physically attractive enough to consider for a date, let alone a relationship.

(There have also been tons of comments that mods removed for being just too insulting.)

If it’s not true that the men here only want 20 year olds, and it’s just a minor preference and they are also attracted to women in their 30s, then why are they always going on about how women will be lonely and unable to find a man if she is over 30? And how all women older are “hags”, “not physically attractive enough for a date”, “no man will be interested in her”, etc?

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Have the guys here gotten more sensitive?

When I first joined PPD I qualified my statements often. I ensured to NAMALT NAWAMLT everything. Do that enough and you get pejoratively called “bloop” and have your statements dismissed.

So many women here adopt the direct style many men of PPD claim to prefer. We casually break down what’s happening without any over-qualification or pleasantries. Many women here have also adopted a less immediately “awww wow ☺️😯” approach because that’s not how the men here interact. I used to use way more emojis and be way more playful but that gets made fun of. Ppl adapt to the environment.

What I’ve noticed is that despite many guys here deriding female-speak and style, they actually HATE when women engage in conversation in-kind with them. They read the female approach as harpy and the male approach as normal. Or maybe they’re just bothered by anything women do lol idk.

I suppose it’s just interesting to me that many guys here pride themselves on being caustic and unflappable, but seem to be very unnerved when it’s a woman.

Just recently guys have been making fun of the new crop of young gals to PPD and how they interact but in 4 months when those women start replying with a blank stare unimpressed tone they’ll be in a fit.

That said, I think the topics here cause everyone to be defensive 24/7.

Edit: we’ve been socialized into forum autism. Pray for us.

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So...a 18 y.o. girl from Dagestan has been living with her parents in Sweden since she was 9. This year she was asked to visit her relatives in Dagestan, as someone was having a wedding. When she arrived it turned out that people were preparing her wedding. Her wedding with a man she's never seen. Her relatives took away her passport, beat her to make her agree to get married and threatened to kill her. She was able to send a message to her friend and he went to the Sweden police.

She was saved, she's in Sweden now.

But...just what the hell? Can you imagine being a woman raised in a secular country and then tried to be forced into marriage with a complete stranger? Stranger who most likely wouldn't see you as a person and would expect you to follow their traditions.

Her relatives invited 500 people on her wedding and got around 500.000 rubles in gifts.

This girl got lucky. There are thousands who don't though.

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The perfect question for me lol.

I was raised tradcon and although I've distanced myself somewhat, if I ever get married it will be to a trad, virgin woman. Before you say I am hypocritical, I'm saving myself for marriage but I've gone past second base a few times.

I have met a decent number of trad women, through church and church groups. Some are obviously interested in me. The problem is I just don't find many of them attractive enough or vice versa.

I also meet them on dating apps. Hinge and bumble have some trad women for example, and there are explicitly Christian dating apps and sites. A popular one is CatholicMatch. The most recent hot trad woman I got dates with friend zoned me after 2 dates. I'm hoping it was because I was nervous but I may have been shooting out of my league there. One trad girl I went on a date with from bumble was literally a billionaires daughter lol. that was my chance to marry a trad heiress. She was also hot.

The problem is most attractive trad women are scooped up by the time they are early 20s. So I am running out of time because I didn't find one in college (they probably think that too).

My family also set me up with a few trad girls but I didn't think they were cute. If I get older w/o finding someone they might go into panic mode and really start trying to find someone idk. Ironically the most beautiful trad women I know are my aunts, I have huge platonic crushes on them.

There is one girl I met last year who is a pastor's daughter who was very into me. We met through family friends but I'm not really into her. She was 18 and her father was definitely scouting me out as a potential suitor.

I will be joining a new church next month where u can bet ill be on the hunt for a unicorn. That church has a great "after-service" reception where you mingle with people.

BTW I was raised in this culture so I am not altering my personality or pretending to be trad at all.

Feel free to ask any questions.

[–]SmurfESmurferson4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Before you say I am hypocritical

I have zero problems with men who are trad (or, in your case, ventured a bit away, but not far at all) wanting a virginal trad girl. I would actually probably try to talk some sense into you if you were interested in non-trad girls

My issue is when male party boys/sluts want virginal trad girls. But even then, who the hell cares what I think, everyone is entitled to want whatever they want - I’d still be curious how those guys were trying to meet trad girls

Hinge and bumble have some trad women

Really? I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, as those apps are the ones where you either have to know friends of each other or the girl has to make the first move IIRC. That does seem more trad-friendly

CatholicMatch

I know I shouldn’t be surprised, given the presence of JDate and BlackPeopleMeet, but for some reason CatholicMatch surprises me. Maybe because I assumed all of New Jersey was basically CatholicMatch in state form

It’s really interesting to me how the process works. One of my long time friends (we met in Jr High) is Mormon and her family was super involved in her love life

I have to imagine you’re Trad Dad approved, though

[–]Historical-Agency3343 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Hinge and Bumble have some trad women, it really depends on the area. In rural areas it's not uncommon at all.

Most explicitly Christian apps like Christian mingle for example are full of less attractive people and also women who have children (instant deal breaker for any trad guy) but some are good looking.

Yes I'm trad dad/mom approved. That pastor girl's mom was all over me trying to talk me up with her daughter she was literally like "wow historical-agency you are so tall and smart..."

I am tall, not horribly ugly, was going to bible camps when I was a kid, and make good money and have a good education so most trad parents would be supportive of me courting their daughters.

the real issue is really just finding someone where there is mutual attraction. I thought I found someone recently but she ghosted me which sucked.

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[–]poppy_blu9 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’m over the incessant and redundant bitching about moaning about what’s been reality forever. None of this is new. If there is anything new, it’s a generation of children raised to be so fragile they crack at the reality that the adult world isn’t Disneyland.

There have always been people who got more or less than their share of sex, dates, relationships and happy marriages. ALWAYS.

At some point you have to stop crying about life being unfair and start deciding what you are going to do to make your own better.

So maybe it is true there are more sexless men today than in the past.* How does knowing that help you improve your situation?

And if you have no intention or motivation what so ever to improve your situation, stop being disingenuous and admit it. You want to wallow, whine, be pitied and have someone tell you it’s ok to check out of life and blame the world.

I just hate to see young people throwing away what should be the best years of their lives to anger, despair and apathy.

You were dealt a raw hand. I acknowledge it and it sucks. I feel for you. Beyond that I can’t do any more. If you want to stop being miserable it’s a change YOU are going to have to make. No one can do that for you.

You’ll be my age before you know it. Half your life will be over. And there won’t be shit you can do to get those years back.

*Side note: I question where the numbers are really that much higher today. Or is it that sexless men in the past kept their angst to themselves and lied about it and did what ever other man did and bragged about their conquests while men today have a worldwide fraternity of men who’ve come together, adopted a moniker and ideology and created a community where their status is normalized, therefore making it easier for young men today to admit they aren’t getting laid?

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So this isn't really focused on getting men laid, but here are my thoughts.

I think I'd focus on fostering a society that's more satisfying to men, encouraging things like risky or violent sports, with a lessened emphasis on safety than is current, and working to deemphasize reliance on law enforcement in favor of encouraging personal armament and self-defense. This would help satisfy men's drives for violence, competition and self sufficiency.

I think then working to reduce male homelessness, reduce male unemployment, get more men through secondary and post-secondary education, researching a mental health care model that men can feel comfortable utilizing (and making it readily available) and working against the legal biases men are subject to would be good goals. Additionally ending gender-preferential practices in university admissions as well as corporate and government hiring (I'm in favor of anonymizing them as far as possible) and harshly penalizing organizations caught doing so would ensure men are competing on a fair playing field.

More broadly, I think shifting the current narrative of social justice back to focusing on class, as well as encouraging a left-libertarian outlook in men would help the majority of men immensely by improving their working conditions without forcing them to rely on governments that have been, at best, passively hostile to the interests of men, many of which are from poor SES backgrounds and have little help because they're overlooked by a progressive ideology specifically tailored to ignore class issues. This would also still help the other interest groups in need.

Men need to acknowledge the zero-sum power-struggle they've found themselves in, in which our elites are quite happy to throw men under the bus if it means looking just concerned enough to hold on to power. This isn't to say that women need to be stripped of power, but that the men losing in our current society need to secure a place at the table while they can.

[–]poppy_blu4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't particularly care if it's problematic. I absolutely fucking loathe the utilitarianism-derived ethic that the sole goal of society should be to ensure that a maximal number of people make it to advanced enough age to lose control of their bodies and minds. It's the ethic of a hospital, creating a society of palliatives; we've discarded our dignity for the thrill of shitting ourselves and developing dementia. Further it's in blatant denial of our being-toward-death, the absolute reality of our existences.

This would be more like encouraging young men to box, wrestle, shoot and the like as a standard feature of growing up as a man.

Literally the only thing I proposed on that was ending the preferrential treatment women receive in university admissions as well as corporate and government hiring; policies which are hurting men by forcing qualified men to lose opportunities to less-qualified women (which would disproportionately hurt working-class men, who won't have the luxury of waiting for other opportunities to come along). This is in fact a zero sum game, since there's only so many university seats and employment offers. But I'd hardly call making it so you can only stand on your own merits, rather than group identity to be hurting women as a group.

[–]poppy_blu1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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A man that was denied entry to a good school or turned down for a desirable position because preferrential standards meant to get more women into these positions meant that a less-qualified woman got it is absolutely being discriminated against. So yes, some men are experiencing worse life outcomes than they otherwise would have if we didn't have such practices in the name of equity.

However the lower rates of men entering and finishing post-secondary education, or being sufficiently employed are not entirely answered by this, which by its very nature focuses mainly on the lives of the bourgeoisie and petit-bourgeoisie that can afford the schooling necessary to compete for the truly desirable positions. This is part of why I think class needs to return as a focus, and why I think the education of men needs special attention (on that note, I think incetivizing men to become educators is important).

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I agree with your sentiment. But I do think that the main thing the blackpill and dark red dudes around here want women to admit is that these same trends that have always existed have been accelerated in recent years, mostly due to how the internet has changed pretty much everything about how society and culture operates.

That, and how the dominant narrative continues to paint women as victims (which historically they were, of course) while offering mostly bootstraps tough love rhetoric to young men, who continue to fall more and more behind.

A good analog would be how the wealth gap and socioeconomic inequality have also widened and continue to widen at an accelerating pace. Capitalism plus the internet equals runaway success for a constantly shrinking few.

I agree that it's still a minority problem, and most people in general are doing alright, so, granted, the doom and gloom tenor here is a distorted perspective on reality. But it still has some merit as a hyperbolic analysis of a real trend.

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It was obviously satire. However, most forms of female genitalia mutilation aren't particular worse than male genitalia mutilation widely practiced in the USA. For instance the forms practiced in the largest Muslims country of Indonesia - which merely consist of a ritual prick to the clitoris at birth.

Denmark earlier this year had a debate about making male genitalia mutilation illegal, but apparently the USA talked with very big letters to the Danish government behind closed doors, and the proposal was scrapped for now. Despite having the support of 70-80% of the population.

It is extremely hypocritical to be so opposed to a milder form of circumcision because it involves girls and is not part of the US cultural history, but against any changes to a worse form of circumcision just because it is widely practised in the USA.

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Saw a Twitter thread that reminded me of the convos we have on this sub.

A guy tweeted this.

Why do people believe everyone’s grandmother is/was miserable in her traditional marriage?

A viral quoted reply:

They told us while we were in the kitchen and the boys were outside playing.

Other replies:

The quotes and replies differences between men and women tell me grandmas really be out here lying to their grandsons 😭😭. They’ll pull you aside real quick to tell you the real tea Twitter

I couldn’t have been even 10 when my nan told me she dreamed of divorce and moving to a small bungalow alone and getting a cat. Twitter

The last reply is the kicker. A lot of guys on social media and IRL seem to, unprovoked, threaten unpartnered women with “you’re going to be a lonely cat lady!”

That threat has always felt like an empty solipsistic projection to me because if he knew women he would know that women would much rather be at peace with her fluff-baby than in an incompatible relationship.

[–][deleted]6 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Why do people believe everyone’s grandmother is/was miserable in her traditional marriage?

I guess because we rarely hear stories about happy trad marriages. Also because we know that during 50's women were the main patients for lobotomy as it promised to make them compliant and still capable to take of the house and because there was such a thing as "housewife syndrome".

Also because we've seen some books from that time (or close to it). I've even read some...Fascinating Womanhood for example. If you read it, you can learn that by working you downplay the proud role of your husband as a provider and you should do all you can in order not to harm his ego too much. Or that you shouldn't do "men's job" around a house, as that makes you less gently and soft. Also that family isn't about democracy and that everyone should comply to the man as that's how the God said it should be. Etc.

[–]NalkaNalka3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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The only content marriages I’ve seen are ones where the couple are actually compatible.

It’s absolutely rare to find that for many folks.

And so, most couples are held together by “needs” glue where the glue is:

kids / someone to help birth and raise the kids / family/ legacy
pooling of resources for better opportunities
sex or potential of sex (seems to be biggest driver for men at least)
familial companionship
social status

Many ppl marry for the above reasons and barely like their partners and definitely aren’t compatible with them. These relationships almost always turn resentful and discontented.

The relationships where there’s at least mutual respect and affection will be much more content.

But again, pairing up is hard. It’s always been. Only a lucky few ended up with ppl they were compatible with, respected, lusted, and loved.

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I qualified intentionally.

Because I think much of it is the difference between someone having an internal vs external locus of control.

If you’re the type who can’t relate to “count it all joy” then yeah you shouldn’t marry.
If you’re the type who needs everything perfect then yeah you shouldn’t marry. It’s never going to be perfect when dealing with someone who isn’t yourself.
If you’re the type who’s absolutely inept at vetting and seeing very obvious giant red flags, then perhaps you should consult your sagest peers and family and therapy before you dive in into a romantic partnership.
If you’re the type who is on either end of the “ppl walk all over you spectrum” or “I’m an inconsiderate unthoughtful narcissistic ass” spectrum then you need therapy before entering a romantic partnership.

I do think many ppl have beautiful marriages. I see them.

I also think many ppl have awful ones. But it’s usually because they didn’t control for one of the above.

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I'm not saying their grandmothers necessarily weren't miserable (many trad marriages sucked out loud) or even that trad marriages were especially good (I think giving someone such a degree of control over your autonomy is to put yourself in a position that enables even the slightest abusive tendency to flourish horribly) but I do also think the trope that everyone or even most people were miserable in trad arrangements is a product of people hyperfocusing on the inevitable frustrations of annoyance and monotony that comes from any long term partnership, interpreted through the feminist outlook that pervades contemporary society, paired up with the belief that a romantic relationship is supposed to be entirely composed of the thrills of limerance, devaluing the slow building of a stable relationship.

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It's not really these tweets specifically I'm talking about, though I do think it's probable that their ideological underpinnings do cause them to put a more negative spin to their memories (the same way for instance Christians historically have been keen to view and portray the ways of their pagan ancestors as foolish and wicked; though that is also not to say they're wrong), but instead the larger social narrative that trad relationships were universally an oppressive, unfulfilling hell for the women in them, ignoring that their decline as a feature in our society required extensive top-down agitation stemming initially from a small handful of academics who couldn't be considered representative of women as a whole no matter how hard you squinted (if nothing else because there's a strong bourgeois and petit-bourgeois undercurrent to much of feminism, owing to its academic underpinnings and the inevitable class bias resulting), shaming of women that wanted to partake in them and (perhaps most importantly) an economy that simply couldn't sustain them; it wasn't quite the spontaneous rejection of them upon hearing "I am woman, hear me roar" that it's painted out to be.

[–]GridReXX3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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I think you're assigning to me a nefarious motive that isn't present. This kind of ideological construction is universal to our outlooks. We observe a reality with a plenum of differentiated substance that we then ascribe qualities, quantities and identity to in a fashion that's really only subjectively valid (consider for instance the differentiation between a random broken stone that then becomes a tool when someone wills it to be so). This same process is applied to the esoteric and abstract concepts of our culture, which are interpreted subjectively and ascribed an identity and character that's determined in large part by the culture and ideology that we've beem instilled with.

My conservative relatives for instance would give you a very different description of the character of trad relationships, who would give a very different description compared to religious fundamentalists. I don't think feminism is an antagonist, just an ideological framework that's formed part of the lens through which individuals in the effected cultures interpret the world. It's not something I'm opposed to, I just don't think it's intrinsically good, just or true.

You also completely overlooked my point that the decline of trad relationships wasn't as organic as its commonly portrayed; a lot of institutional abd centralized cultural power was applied to that end and a worsening capitalist economy sealed the deal.

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[–][deleted]8 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

A comment yesterday actually reminded me that I read "Fascinating Womanhood" as a curious teen. It's a book from 60s, teaching women how to be good wives.

To put it short, just be a feminine doormat who can't do much without a man and you'll be okay. Be soft, be gentle, don't have any masculine traits, praise him all the time, pretend to be far weaker and dumber than you're really are (so he'd look and feel better), don't ask nor give him advice directly, of course don't work, don't talk about sexual issues (it would harm his ego), give him the first place in your priorities (he doesn't have to do the same), don't be better than your husband in things that are traditionally masculine - you humiliate him by doing so, BE SUBMISSIVE.

So all in all, a man can't feel as "the man" without a woman who plays along and does everything for him to keep this "masculinity". I have no idea why people find this variant working for them, but it doesn't look appealing in any way for a person who doesn't believe either in Christianity nor in strict gender roles.

[–]ChibsFilipTelfordd5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And this my comment got downvoted by some angry tradcons who can't get their feminine and submissive wives I guess.

I think most women aren't attracted neither to deeply religious men or to tradcons if they don't really share their beliefs. So I see no reason for them to actually follow any of these advice.

What I find interesting is that most advertised books/courses/whatever that claims to help women with dating fall into two categories:

Become a bitch. And if you get a closer look, by a bitch they usually mean a gold digger/sugar baby who "knows her value".
Submit and serve. This one is also usually deeply religious and they like speculating about true women's nature and stuff.

A few years ago "vedas" got popular, but not real Indian vedas, but what these dudes call vedas. Men and women are inherently different, women are fuel and men are engines, women's place is at home, wear long dresses without any underpants as it helps to get feminine energy from the Earth, work on your femininity, if your husband beats you up - well, that's your karma, women store feminine energy in their hair etc.

And it's...pretty much the same stuff that lots of Christian people preach about just with a different mythology for justification and rationalizing. I find it really peculiar.

[–]WikiSummarizerBot1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

International_Society_for_Krishna_Consciousness

The International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), known colloquially as the Hare Krishna movement or Hare Krishnas, is a Gaudiya Vaishnava religious organisation. ISKCON was founded in 1966 in New York City by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Its core beliefs are based on Hindu scriptures, particularly the Bhagavad Gita and the Bhagavata Purana, and the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition, which has had adherents in India since the late 15th century and American and European devotees since the early 1900s. ISKCON devotees follow a disciplic line of Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya and are the largest branch of Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChibsFilipTelfordd1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Eh. Women are attracted to deeply religious men if they're hot or also religious. People make compromises if they think it's the best thing they're gonna get, as I'm sure you're aware, example being my gf will move to wherever i live once i finish my MBA even though she may not prefer Seattle, NYC, Boston etc ad opposed to places she'd prefer to live like charlotte, austin or Nashville. Hell, I'd prefer those, but you gotta do what you gotta do to make money. I'd move to fuckin Voronezh or Irkutsk (well maybe not irkustsk lol siberia sounds miserable) if i made 200k instead of 100k.

most advertised books/courses/whatever that claims to help women with dating fall into two categories:

Become a bitch. And if you get a closer look, by a bitch they usually mean a gold digger/sugar baby who "knows her value"

"Why men love bitches." The dumbest book I've ever skimmed. Rules 3, 10, 11, 37, 52, 53, and 75 are good rules. The rest are trash. Yes, i saved those in my images lol. Knowing your value is great. Actually becoming impossible to deal with is not.

Submit and serve. This one is also usually deeply religious and they like speculating about true women's nature and stuff.

Some women and men want this, but in the modern day i doubt most do.

I don't know what a veda is.

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[–]AtaCome78211 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What you're saying and what you think you're saying don't quite fit together.

What you've just done is agree to his narrative, if looks are what determines the opportunity then it is looks that determine the relationship, not personality or anything else.

I have to ask, how do ya'll keep doing this? I've only been on this sub a few months and I'm already tired of making the same points over and over and winning the same arguments but these arguments keep coming up repeatedly, like didn't we already agree that yes, looks are what determines whether a girl will get with a guy or not, why are we still having this argument?

And before you say "oh, looks are what get you in the door, it's personality that keeps you around", you do know that's a moot statement right? I mean we aren't debating about how to stay in a relationship, we're talking about how to get into one.

I normally don't agree with u/passper2t but he does have a point, ya'll start sounding reasonable, then you lose the argument and then agree with what's being said and then add on to that to make it seem like you won the argument and that it's what you've been saying this entire time. Example:

So, if your looks don’t measure up, you’re shit out of luck.

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[–]AtaCome78212 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If you are smoking hot, you barely need money/personality. If you have a top-shelf personality, there's probably 10more men with the exact same quality as you that you have to compete with, that dilute the strength of your amazing personality

By: A woman on PPD.

She also said "improving your looks" , so(on behalf of the dudes here) I'd like to ask how does one "improve" their looks? It can't be haircuts and showers because it has been made abundantly clear that's not it and it can't be plastic surgery(for obvious reasons), so what is it?

If you haven't noticed no one cares about any of this, the point of knowing the truth is just that, to know the truth. That way you don't waste any time and energy on pointless pursuits, which is why I advised the dudes here(who complain about it) to spent their time making money or learning how to make money(not necessarily to be rich, obviously) and hire escorts/prostitutes rather than debating online(after they have established the truth for themselves) and trying to convince other people of it.

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Honestly, I don’t think it’s exactly laziness. I think that’s more that they want a simple instruction manual and are terrified of messing up. For the gym, yeah it’s strenuous to lift weights, but sooooo easy to understand what to do. You just have to follow a rigid, low-risk procedure: eat X grams of protein every day, lift Y pounds in this exact motion on Monday 30 times. The actual task requires some discipline and is challenging, but it’s not hard to figure out how to do it, and the risks of messing up are injuries, which can be iced and heal.

But improving yourself socially, when you’re an unpopular weirdo? There’s no instruction manual with broken down day-to-day how-to’s, and when you mess up, you can hurt people’s feelings or embarrass yourself… and there’s no obvious procedure for fixing a mistake either. And the only real way to improve is to observe other people and stick your neck out and try being interesting/funny/charming yourself.

That’s much harder to know what to do, so they focus on the brain-dead procedural advice. And it’s also more appealing, because progress in gym lifting is easily measured. And let’s be honest, it’s easy for men to improve in the gym fast at first. Like, really easy.

Ok, you’re right, it is just easier.

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Men are having an extraordinarily difficult time with the new reality where it turns out women have to like them now to be with them. It was never a cakewalk to be the gender forced to shrink to appease men we didn't like to survive. Now that everyone has some freedom and they are not awarded a whole human just for being male, it's unconscionable to them. They are too good to be providers and too proud to learn the art of charm. So sure, the lazy narrative of blaming looks WHILE UNIRONICALLY focusing on the beautiful women they desire doing it. You even see them furious when a 5/10 has self esteem.

Maybe deep down some of them think there is nothing to like. It's not even true for most of them but whatever, wear misogyny as if it's a personality and make the persecution complex the center of their lives.

Women still love men even the ones who don't deserve it but they need to be likable if they are going to try to be with someone who doesn't need them to live. Which is more and more of us every day.

Oh well.

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If they woke up tomorrow as a Chad and were exactly the same personality they would have way more women interested in them than if they woke up tomorrow looking the same but having the social ability of... [insert group of people who have top 20% social ability]

See, I actually disagree on this. I've known some very handsome, socially awkward men (grad students in tech fields). They were not slaying. And possibly more to the point, when the occasional girl was interested, they didn't realize it or were freaked out by it. They eventually got girlfriends, but they weren't out there banging women left and right.

Meanwhile, in the much more social corner....among the people I know who party a lot and have big friend circles, even the pudgy guys got laid a lot more than the handsome awkward guys.

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We thought it was the flu, he was in bed for a week with body aches and headache and nausea but on Thursday he went down hard: confusion, muscle spasms, labored breathing. The ER revealed extremely low sodium and a lot of organ inflammation, including liver, heart, kidneys, and pancreas. His heart ejection fraction was down to 25% so they called the heart failure cardiologists here at the big hospital and those guys said to send him over.

I’m here with him now and he is in better shape than he was yesterday. Still getting the sodium under control, trying to figure out what caused this. They are leaning towards tick borne illness - we went hiking at Shenandoah National Park before the fourth - but he has some other worrying stuff that is not consistent with that. Maybe it is two things! They’re still waiting for a bunch of other labs to get back. His platelet count has improved, so yay. We will see what the rest of the doc flock has to say when they come by to see him.

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“My pitch for the men is: Patriarchy hurts you, too. You deserve a healthy relationship that makes you happy.” Laughing, he offered another way to put it: “We're trying to teach them how to love.” https://www.gq.com/story/cure-men-who-pay-for-sex-end-prostitution/amp

Fam, they are just tryna get their dicks sucked and go home lol. You making prostitution to be WAAAAAY deeper than it actually is. Now are there some weirdos? Yeah but they not the majority. The idea of selling sex being illegal is stupid and immoral in the first place but John schools are even more funny. Also isn’t one of the arguments against “Patriarchy” is that men are not entitled to women’s bodies(I agree)so how can you then argue men “deserve” healthy relationships and love? No one deserves any type of love or relationship. Heck a lot of those guys are married, it’s not like they’re some anti social weirdos who can’t talk to girls.

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It's not paid because it's unskilled, not because it's not valuable. Keeping children healthy, safe, and loved is the most important thing on the planet

Men's productivity relies on the work women do for free. I know a married couple with the same education, but he makes more than her. He wanted a family, but he wasn't the one who had to show up to work with a pregnant belly and leaking breasts. He didn't wake up in the middle of the night to breastfeed. He didn't take time off work when the kids were sick. His boss liked all of that!

He didn't spend his energy on anything but work. She bought all the groceries, cooked his meals and packed his lunch. He didn't scrub toilets. He didn't argue with the principal about what classes his kids should take. He didn't get his kid switched out of the class with the bad teacher; he didn't even know there were teachers you had to avoid.

If she wanted her career to look like his, she'd have had to hire and pay a surrogate, a wet nurse, a 24//7 babysitter, several personal assistants, a maid, a personal shopper, a prostitute and a chef. What she needed was a wife.

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Because supply and demand doesn't actually reflect the value of a person's work.

Really good football (soccer) players get paid millions. Probably because of supply and demand - the people want really good footballers and these are hard to come by. But their work isn't worth millions. If all football ceased tomorrow the world would be unchanged.

The market has valued them at that because the market works on what people want, not what they need. It's taken for granted that nurses and teachers will always be around. But if they all vanished tomorrow? The world would be an exceedingly worse place. Who would you train to replace them? For nurses not everyone wants to do 12 hour shifts for shitty pay and the significant possibility of having to clean up poo. For teachers, not many people want to deal with kids all day - especially not for shitty pay. But they provide an essential function in society which we cannot do without.

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You're ascribing some mighty big value judgements based on your opinions. Public Teachers as a whole don't actually succeed at teaching their subjects -- after all, something like 50% of Americans can't name 5 presidents or the first amendment. They mainly train people, men especially, to be docile members of society and to sit still and wait until they're spoken to to speak. College and grad school are much better, as is AP/IB/Magnet/Private secondary school, and i had some fantastic teachers, but I've met far more useful to society CFAs and CPOs than teachers.

AutoCADders are literally the backbone of everything you use daily. I'd say they're more useful than EITHER teachers or traders.

Your definition of "essential" is as nebulous as the government's was during covid lockdown. Why is Taco Bell essential and WalMart is essential, when José's tacos and Wong's grocery store are shut down and have to go out of business because their rent is $3k a month and they make 4% margins on the taquitos they sell?

I mean come on, you DO think you're god if you can specifically judge the worth of people.

[–]thelajestic1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're ascribing some mighty big value judgements based on your opinions

So are you.

I don't live in the US, so the atrocious state of their education system isn't my concern. However, at school children learn to read, write, do basic arithmetic. They socialise with other children and learn communication, group learning, independent learning.

Unless you've done decently well at school you can't go to college or grad school, so without teachers we'd be a bunch of illiterate morons and there would be no uni, no college, no autoCAD designers, no stock market traders.

AutoCADders are literally the backbone of everything you use daily. I'd say they're more useful than EITHER teachers or traders.

But there would be none if there were no teachers.

Your definition of "essential" is as nebulous as the government's was during covid lockdown. Why is Taco Bell essential and WalMart is essential, when José's tacos and Wong's grocery store are shut down and have to go out of business because their rent is $3k a month and they make 4% margins on the taquitos they sell?

My definition isn't nebulous whatsoever. I'm looking at cause and effect and the order that things actually come in. Without teachers you have no progress in life so none of the other things you value actually happen.

[–]ChibsFilipTelfordd1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, actually, I'm pointedly making NO value judgements except in response to yours, to specifically illustrate it's an opinion, not a fact.

Why are teachers more valuable than John Doe and his parenting skills/socializing the child that way?

We had no teachers for most of human history. A root digger was more valuable. A hunter.

With the nature of information on the internet, motivated conscientious/industrious people can self teach, if they're just taught how to read first.

It's a stupid argument to have either way because this is way in the weeds about value of teachers! You cannot ascribe objective societal value to teachers -- or ANY occupation-- only the free market does that. Jeff Bezos provided 2-day delivery for all the bullshit you and I order, and so he's incredibly valued by society. Elon musk provides sweet cars and has been incredibly rewarded.

If you only look at cause and effect where the fuck do you start? Without heating or AC we'd freeze or suffocate, are power companies the most valuavle

Without baby formula there would be many more deaths so is Nestle the most valuable company in society?

Your argument is recursive and tries to attribute value using YOUR subjective opinion

[–]thelajestic1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Except you seem to think that teachers have no value based on your own subjective reasoning.

Yes, but that was then and this is now. If you value current society the way it is just now, then you need teachers. Even before then though, there have always been some manner of "teacher" throughout history - it's how learning has been passed down and how people learned things.

With the nature of information on the internet, motivated conscientious/industrious people can self teach, if they're just taught how to read first.

And who teaches them how to read? You need some form of teacher in order to do that. You can't leave it to parents because they might have a learning disability, they might not be literate, they might be dyslexic, they might be terrible at teaching it, or as is most likely, they both have jobs and don't have time to teach their kids how to read. Or they're just bad parents and don't take the time to teach them. You need formal early years education because there is no guarantee children will be taught the things they need to otherwise.

The free market is arbitrary and does not indicate the usefulness of a function or company. Jeff Bezos is valued by society but I could argue that Amazon has been incredibly damaging and we were better off before. Do we need things in two days? We all live in our little boxes and climb into a smaller box to go to a giant box store or stay at home to get boxes delivered. A lot of people can no longer interact with their community, visit shops or do the things they used to because there is no longer the infrastructure to support it. Thus sections of society become more isolated and have objectively shitter lives.

If you only look at cause and effect where the fuck do you start? Without heating or AC we'd freeze or suffocate, are power companies the most valuavle

They perform an inordinately valuable function. As do farmers, fishers, granaries etc.

Without baby formula there would be many more deaths so is Nestle the most valuable company in society?

Well nestle are less valuable than they'd like to make out. Actually what should be more valued and funded are more nurses, midwives and breastfeeding consultants. Infants who are tongue tied often don't get noticed until it's too late and the milk has dried up, because they're too short staffed and busy so don't get the opportunity to notice these things and resolve potential breastfeeding issues before they become major issues. My sister was a BF consultant and helped many women who otherwise wouldn't have been able to breastfeed. This isn't valued by society - it's an unpaid volunteer position. But it should be valued and it is very highly valued by the women who use the service.

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The amount of disingenuousness in the comments of this post is fucking astounding.

Please delete your Reddit account if you did either of the following:

Pretended as though that post merely said "looks matter", when it very clearly and specifically said that looks matter JUST AS MUCH TO WOMEN AS THEY DO TO MEN.
Pretended as though everyone already understands that looks matter just as much to women as they do to men. It is REGULARLY suggested by people here (let alone in normieland) that women care less about looks than men.

-

Edit; Oh, I guess I should mention that the research is specifically referring to college aged women.

That should really go without saying however, because obviously, when arguing about what women find attractive, we mean specifically who women want to have sex with.

Thus it is important to look at the demographic of women who select based on tingles, and not the demographic of imminent wall-hitters who have to sacrifice on what makes them horny in order to secure commitment from something before their fertility runs dry.

[–][deleted]4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Dobersek and her colleagues also found that female students valued independence and generosity in their ideal mates more than male students. Surprisingly, male students did not prefer physical attractiveness more than female students.

“We found that both males and females desire mates that are physically attractive. And given that exercise can alter our body, our body image (and concomitantly our confidence), it is worth exercising on a regular basis for reasons that extend well beyond health — especially if we are single,” Dobersek explained.

Please delete your reddit account if you don't realize how fluffy and bad this is scientifically.

Women said their mate had to be attractive ideally, ok what the fuck does that mean empirically? Because they didn't say its ok if he's ugly doens't mean it actually matters as much as it does to men, it just means they checked a box that looks are important.

And looks seems to be the one big factor for men, not women.

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To be fair it's not just socially clueless internet people. We've got a deeply entrenched narrative inflicted on us by previous generations that women aren't driven by looks and will overlook that for a good-natured provider (the relationship of the Simpson parents comes to mind) brought about of the idea that a man can just be a good enough husband to make his wife desire him.

So for a younger person who has found themselves without the necessary social status and skills to successfully engage in activities like clubbing, in which the attentive would get a more realistic first-hand look, it can be easy to get the impression that when women talk about how they want good men, that they mean being a good man can make someone attractive, rather than that they want the men they find attractive to be good men.

Also I think it's hard for a lot of men to accept that the vast bulk of them won't ever be considered notably attractive by a woman.

The general impression I get of TRP is that it's for late bloomers to avoid getting taken for a ride (for instance the AFBB thing seems to be there to remind you not to let the first woman that gives you attention to take you for a ride).

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I think the main difference is where each gender has the baseline threshold set. I think men have a comparatively wider threshold of women they consider physically attractive but women who are unfortunate enough to fall outside that wide threshold cant do much to elevate their position.

I think women have a much more narrow threshold of men they consider physically attractive but give more leeway for men who are outside that threshold to elevate their position with personality, wealth & status but still won't be as passionate about them as they would someone who did fall in the threshold.

And people who are significantly outside of either genders threshold is going to have a shit time dating although Id say women are still probably better off from the standpoint of something is better than nothing as I think the most genetically inferior men are more likely to die alone than are the most genetically inferior women.

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I don't think looks are all that matters but I think they are the most important and that it will get them in the door with enough women that as long as their personality isnt crazy bad they should be fine.

women have such limitless access to attractive men that they can set up as many arbitrary hurdles and filters as they wish.

For casual sex yes. For relationships they are more limited. As much as they want to deny it they are a hive mind in that they mostly prefer the same baseline traits and guys with those traits are rare. Logistically there just aren't enough for every woman to have exclusive access to one so if they do manage to get one who is willing to commit they can't be too picky about the rest. I'm also a big believer in halo effect in that I think its like a passive +2 or 3 modifier to all personality traits. The attractive guy will be perceived as funnier, friendly, more intelligent, more trustworthy, more confident, charismatic ect. The guy has to really suck in order for his personality to be perceived as bad.

[–]MasterTeacher1237 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I will die on this hill. Most people are not able to pick out virgins. Past a certain age everyone will just assume you’ve had sex whether you look like Brad Pitt or steve buscemi lol. I’ve said for years we have this stereotype of the male virgin being some ugly neckbeard who doesn’t shower and wears weird glasses but you would be surprised lol. Like if you lined up ten dudes and asked women for example pick out the guy who had never had sex the vast majority of women would get it wrong. “But but he’s awkward and weird”, so? my dentist is awkward and weird and he’s married for 25 years lol.

Dudes who are virgins ask for advice online and always be like “I’m this close to having sex for the first time should I tell her im a virgin? What if I’m bad? First off the fact that she’s been talking to you tells you she has no idea you’re a virgin. Secondly if you suck she’s just gonna assume you suck, not “he’s never done this before”. And after that your no longer a virgin so who gives a shit lol

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why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free

Absolutely no idea how that relates to the topic right now.

Sex is the most validating, romantic thing a woman can give a man and if she gives it to a lot of guys its not the same.

Not every sex women give is romantic. And sex can be vastly different between partners. I personally think kissing is one of the best, romantic, affectionate things, but I don't think my kiss with someone is less special because both my partner and I have kissed a lot of people before.

I understand why previous partners and maybe comparison is something that's nagging in one's mind a bit (in both men and women), but I hope people might realise that love and sex is not worth less because it has been given before. And that life is much more enjoyable if you don't let the fact someone else had sex with that person before diminish your actual current (hopefully great) experience with your partner.

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I always liked talking with my girlfriends about our previous experiences, but I'm also a proud male slut that only dates similarly-minded people.

Also, studies show that it's less about gender and more about sociosexuality, and that the insecurity doesn't usually happen if both have similar n-counts.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2016.1232690

For long-term relationships, in contrast, there was virtually no sex difference. Thus, contrary to the idea that male promiscuity is tolerated but female promiscuity is not, both sexes expressed equal reluctance to get involved with someone with an overly extensive sexual history. Finally, participants with an unrestricted sociosexual orientation (high SO participants) were more tolerant than low SO participants of prospective mates with higher numbers of past sexual partners but were also less tolerant of prospective mates with low numbers of past sexual partners.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/97433-more-women-than-men-care-about-a-new-partners-sexual-history-says-new-study-and-over

But while there are those who lie by decreasing numbers, there are also those who lie by increasing numbers. Of those surveyed, 31 percent of men and 12 percent of women actually inflate the number of their past sexual partners as a means to impress the new person they’re dating.

As a spokesperson for Lovehoney explains, “All our research shows that the happiest couples are those who are open and honest with each other, particularly in the bedroom. A significant number of men and women do tell white lies about their sexual pasts, but the overwhelming majority are honest.”

For 27 percent of women a partner’s sexual history has complete and total bearing on whether that person will make a good partner. At 21 percent, men aren’t too far behind women in this thinking.

According to the survey, 29 percent of women and 21 percent of men would be “put off” if someone they're dating had a high “number.”

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5964280_Matching_in_Sexual_Experience_for_Married_Cohabitating_and_Dating_Couples

Romantic partners showed a significant level of matching in the prior number of intercourse partners. Further, among the married couples, a higher discrepancy between men's and women's number of previous intercourse partners was related to lower levels of love, satisfaction, and commitment in the relationship.

It's a minority of men that care, especially among men that have had a sexual past themselves. For experienced men talking about it is a positive bonding experience, and experienced men are more likely to be put off if you have a lower n-count.

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You know, I've mentioned the connection between red pill philosophy and romanticizing (or over-romanticizing) one's teenage years. Today I was just reminded of one of my least-favorite examples of pop culture's infatuation with the teenage years: "Jack and Diane" by John Mellencamp.

Now, we all know "Jack and Diane" as a prime example of the bullshit Boomer version of Americana that never really existed, but everyone secretly yearns for anyway. But I realized the refrain "Life goes on / Long after the thrill of living is gone" isn't a prediction, it's reflection. The thrill of living is long gone for the speaker. I like to think the point of view is an older Jack in his late forties: prematurely aging, working a soul-deadening office job in the hopes of one day reaching middle management, trapped in a loveless marriage with a woman he long since stopped caring about. One day his wife, whom he vaguely resents but can't articulate why, told him to clean out a closet, and he discovers memorabilia from his teenage years he hadn't thought about in ages. Through the haze of day-drinking, he remembers that at 16 he used to date a girl named Diane, and how much different that passionate relationship was to his current farce of a marriage, and he asks himself, "Holy shit, didn't I used to have feelings once?"

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i was reading in a thread about women not being able to do a lot of physically intensive tasks and it got me thinking about how things would be different if we didn't have things that just rely on men being so much stronger than women.

I think a lot of things like packaging and industrial tools are made with the assumption that a man is needed. Yesterday, my wife and I were mounting a new sprinkler system and she was tightening a bolt; she did the best she could with her strength, but some water was still dripping near the bolt. I had to tighten it myself an extra half a turn before it was sealed. Hell, even the packaging in which the system arrived was just a big and heavy box. It was obvious that handling it in the supply chain was done by men and/or machinery, because there was no way my wife could handle that box on her own.

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[–]TakeThePinkPill4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The question is can you do anything about these unfortunate realisations?

Yes. The goal of the pink pill is "never go full retard". This means don't waste your life listening to the siren song of low value men.

Instead, here are the brutal facts. However you choose to proceed, do so with your eyes wide open. Whether you go WGTOW or tradcon, here is how you maximize your choice for ultimate female benefit. Live well, always.

Women cannot change men and since men don't care to check the worst of men, all you can do be extremely aware, do risk assessments, and select what's best for you according to your desires and sexual leverage.

All the dumb shit the black pilled manosphere does bc it doesn't care about wellness and hope is so low IQ but whatever, it is to our benefit that bad men cannabilize themselves.

[–]TheJim665 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]TheJim662 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Low value men is what's most abundant.

Is it? Most men aren't abusers, criminals or assholes yet these are the men that consistently fuck more women. These are the men women choose over other men.

Yeah we are not responsible for men being trash.

You are. If you weren't attracted to shitty behavior, men would be treating you better. I already showed this in my previous examples. When women change what they select for , men adapt.

See my last comment quoting a LVM saying himself how there is no point to having value if he can't get pussy like Chad

But he, apparently, isn't the kind of "LVM" women choose and thus complain about.

You don't get to create and enforce a patriarchy and then blame women for male failures.

Good thing we don't have a patriarchy then. As you said, personal responsibility. Stop choosing the men that are supposedly low value. It's not like women are lacking options.

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Yes we do. Women are extremely brutal and many of them are happy to push other women under the bus. We have internalized misogyny up the wazoo and will sit and defend men good or bad.

Another thing, men as the "protectors" since being the stronger sex are required to keep the trash in check. Men all suffer as a group when their psychopaths make everyone distrust men. So it's not even for us at some point. If men don't check men, who is going to? Women? How? We literally get berated for getting raped. We literally have men using their influence to create a bullshit narrative that men are more oppressed due to false accusations of rape when rape itself rarely gets justice.

Who is going to check the men out of control? At some point, men who don't do shit are complicit. The female sex isn't organizing and sharing information for no reason. We are reacting and protecting ourselves bc its not like we can act like men and do more than that.

[–]Kaisha0013 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes we do.

No you don't. Even on PPD you ladies circle the wagons anytime anyone says anything against teamwoman. Name the last time any woman (apart from Atlas, Cimoernewhatever, and crazy girl) actually called out women on bad behavoir against men.

We have internalized misogyny up the wazoo and will sit and defend men good or bad.

Yeah we know, nothing is ever woman's fault. It's nature, it's patriarchy, it's internalized misogyny... lol, the mental gymanastics is as impressive as it is futile.

Another thing, men as the "protectors" since being the stronger sex are required to keep the trash in check.

Feminism is certainly ensuring that no longer occurs.

Men all suffer as a group when their psychopaths make everyone distrust men.

No.

So it's not even for us at some point. If men don't check men, who is going to?

Apparently no one.

Women? How? We literally get berated for getting raped.

Oh look, more feminist fiction.

We literally have men using their influence to create a bullshit narrative that men are more oppressed due to false accusations of rape when rape itself rarely gets justice.

Non sequitur.

Society has been shaped by feminism... now it's time you ladies take responsiblity.

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You may very well be right, I see two selfish people who got along before because their selfish goals aligned and now they're having problems when they've diverged.

Still, I believe there is a path forward. He wants to fundamentally change their income stream and she's scared for multiple reasons. In that situation he needs to soothe those fears and prove the lifestyle will be maintained regardless. Part time work jumps out immediately or a similar incremental step to get both parties used to such a change. It wont be the "right now" result he wants but he's 32, a year or two isn't going to break him and once she knows nothing will really change, I imagine her demands will cease and he can stop working completely, should he still desire that.

Plus, she's probably on the money about him not having a purpose and the problems that will cause, it's never wise to rule out insight from the person who spends every day with you...

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I was disgusted that men seriously wanna fuck soulless robots over women. But I don't blame them. This is the doing of feminists/postmodernists who brainwashed everyone by spewing shitty papers from university and convinced everyone that everything is a SoCiAl CoNsTrUcT even though it's plainly fucking obvious to anyone with eyes and a brain that men and women are DIFFERENT and we should confront these ugly truths.

Men need their primal need to nut met. So if society demonise masculinity and make relationships and marriage an overall bad deal for men, these degenerate shit will become normalised.

I am optimistic that men will take the red pill and correct this mess, and reclaim our DIVINE AUTHORITY over Earth and mankind as directly seen/implied in virtually every holy scripture and religion around the world.

FYI see all the postmodernist crap that liberals cite when spewing their bullshit? Yeah, all those philosophers were LITERAL PAEDOPHILES. Foucault, Sartre and his feminist wife, the whole fucking lot of them.

/rant

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you can try to make your case.

But I seriously don't see anything wrong with it sexually or economically.

All you need is something which looks enough like a woman (or a woman, in the case of prostitution) in order to have your sexual needs met. Other needs can be met with other things... companionship with friends, validation with work. the only thing exclusive to biological women is sex.

And economically, I don't see the price being that steep. particularly in prostitution. I live in a nation which has high prices and it is legal. But it is not that expensive as to be extreme. I don't think that the technology in the future will be that expensive either.

I do however agree that the challenges in engineering/robotics will take some decades to solve to make something to be as good as a prostitute in an affordable price... But I am fine with that.

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