The Friendzone is a thing because the average woman doesn't find the average guy attractive enough

WoodStainedGlass · 2023-04-30T14:39:42+00:00

It’s so important to be honest with yourself and the women you approach in this situation. When I was a college freshman I had a hug crush on a sophomore, our social circles overlapped and one day I gathered the courage to ask her out. She accepted but in a friendly way, so I clarified that I was asking her on a date. She said her schedule was too busy for dating but we could hang with a group of friends. I said “I already have a lot of friends,” and declined to join them. It was really hard to take a stand but it planted a seed of self respect 20+ years ago, and I can always be proud of that moment.

Popular_Accountant60 · 2023-04-30T13:17:00+00:00

The friend zone is a thing because instead of just moving on when someone tells you they’re not interested romantically, you decide to become an orbiter hoping she changes her mind. Any man in the friend zone placed himself there. He could easily not be her friend.

ffandyy · 2023-04-30T12:18:35+00:00

Nobody finds 80% of all women attractive

RRBeachFG2 · 2023-04-30T15:50:30+00:00

I’m sorry but 80% of women aren’t hot

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-04-30T16:29:30+00:00

The friendzone exists because some dudes sit around hoping to change the woman's mind after she's already turned them down.

If just being friends isn't enough for you, you don't have to be friends with her. You can leave that friendship. That's perfectly fine, you should do what's best for you and if that means not engaging with the person you have a crush on/have feelings for, you should do thay. If you don't and still whine about it, that's on you, you put yourself in the "friendzone".

Take some agency over your life and there won't be a "friendzone".

Spyro7x3 · 2023-04-30T17:20:37+00:00

No its because women get hit on so much. If you had 20 girls a day hollering at you, you would move atleast 2/3rds into the friendzone out of necessity thats all there is to it. Male thirst creates the friendzone

thetruthishere_ · 2023-04-30T13:14:32+00:00

Men 'friendzone' themselves. They choose it.

Your real issue is you have a problem with male thirst and they Will F anything. Of course they will be open to more, hoping to get sex not that he actually wants to date her.

DeshaunWalt · 2023-04-30T12:11:23+00:00

Any guy who volunteerily stays in the friend-zone shows they have little self-respect for themselves and attractiveness

When a woman says "let's just be friends"

I take it as a translation of being her pet that gives her attention 24/7

Now some guys stay in friend-zone because they love a girl so much that being around her is enough aka a crush but this is not HS people

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2023-04-30T14:40:35+00:00

This had nothing to do with the friend zone because even if women only find 1% of men physically attractive, the other 99% of men aren't obligated to be friends with women who don't find them attractive. Those men are making a personal choice to be in the friend zone.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2023-04-30T12:11:17+00:00

And yet, more than 20% of men are in relationships… your math doesn’t work out

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2023-04-30T12:21:57+00:00

the friendzone comes from passive men who never shoot their shot, it is not womens fault and it is not womens responsibility. men friendzone themselves

anon018274031 · 2023-04-30T12:12:58+00:00

Men do not find 80% of women their age attractive, they just don’t even SEE the less then average ones as women. So of the women they acknowledge as women then maybe it feel that’s way.

I’m a girl who has been friend zoned by plenty of men. I have a lot of male friends, if men found that many women attractive then I wouldn’t be single because 1 of them would be my partner

learn2earn89 · 2023-04-30T14:39:10+00:00

Most of the friend zoned men I know have always gone for girls out of their league.

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2023-04-30T13:45:47+00:00

I think the friend zone came about as a relatively recent phenomenon. There was once a time when male-female "friendships" were considered different from friendships among those of the same sex. They were generally discouraged for many of the same reasons we're seeing now (because some people catch feelings which, for whatever reason, complicates the "friendship").

Men and women were never supposed to be "friends" (or even "peers" or "co-workers"), yet in more modern times, women believed that they should be able to hang out with guys, to be able to go out with co-workers after work - just like men do.

But some men aren't able to play the "war is peace," "2+2=5," "woman is man" game that other Orwellian thinkers like to play, so they might end up falling in love with a woman they're not allowed to fall in love with under the bizarre, convoluted rules of feminism and male-female "peer relationships" where men and women are supposed to be considered equals and with no acknowledgement of their gender.

I agree with the OP view that women may not find the average guy attractive enough for a relationship, but if people had followed more traditional practices, the issue of the "friendzone" would hardly ever come up, if at all. Because they wouldn't actually be "friends" in the same way that people of the same gender are friends. Such things just didn't happen.

TheSongsInYourHead · 2023-04-30T14:30:51+00:00

If a woman and I work well as friends then the only reason I wouldn't want to date her is if she isn't physically attractive. However what I'm not sure of is :

Do women think the same way? Do they view characteristics of friends different from characteristics of potential romantic partners?
Are most men in the friend zone actually friends with the woman or are they just orbiters ?

geogirl83 · 2023-04-30T14:45:52+00:00

You can’t just make up hypothetical stats to hold up your argument

begayallday · 2023-04-30T16:13:30+00:00

I’ve been put in the friendzone far more than the reverse.

Logical-Confection-7 · 2023-04-30T17:30:20+00:00

First of all, 80% of women attractive as teenage boy? No way. Probably 20%. Younger men are less into women as people think. Is not until probably your 20 than you want to “bang everybody” and that still usually means a very specific type of girl.

In my own case, is with age that I find mower an more women attractive. My estimate is that I now find a solid 50% of women around my age attractive. And WFT, like 80% of young women. Males wonder why people don’t look so good in my days 😂😂.

Second, a solid 50% of men in my school were dating at that time, and by the time I was mod college, almost all men I knew had experience with women. I see a similar pattern for the male friends of my nephew. So, yeah, most men end up in relationships with fiends they meet in high school and college.

The so called “friend zone” is not that common and it usually involves just one woman each men gets obsessed with.

Fourth, is not uncommon for the “friend zone” to come back and forward. I’ve seen it happen with guys suddenly getting a girlfriend and now their crush is after them. Also, most men do not stay there and are happy without retrieving their friendship over a sexual or romantic rejection.

I’ve my self have remain friends of women that weren’t into me. Is just few the ones I actually got a broken heart from.

NoobSaw · 2023-04-30T23:07:44+00:00

The Friendzone's main cause isn't the 80/20 thing, its the man thinking he will eventually have a chance and/or the women leading him on for attention.

To avoid being in the friendzone a man should really pay attention to how the women treats her other male friends cause she definitely treat some of them, who are not in the friendzone, better than you.

I'm someone who view attraction as a straight gradient from friends to lovers, someone who is sexually attracted to you WILL treat you better than others EVEN as a friend. Which means if she put you in the friendzone, the friendship's never going to be as good anyways, have some self respect and find someone else.

There is only a few scenarios where I believe men and women of similar age and attractiveness can share deep and meaningful friendship without the presence of sexual attraction. First, one of them is gay and the other respects that, or both of them are gay. Second, both of them are in committed relationships and respect eachother's SO.

Squidiot_002 · 2023-05-01T00:58:49+00:00

I swear, this whole thing stems from men and women having different definitions of what friendship is.

To men, friendships tend to have little intimacy, men also tend to refrain from sharing their inner-most thoughts or emotions, and men bond more over shared activities.

To women, a friendship is a sustained emotional connection and attachment. Women more freely share their thoughts, emotions, daily activities, and secrets because they bond over those things.

Men view emotional attachment as something for a romantic relationship, where women view that as friendship.

The "friendzone" is just a misunderstanding between the sexes on what friendship entails.

There are outliers, of course there are, and if anyone strings you along for validation or uses you as an emotional dumping ground, then they have no business being in your life.

The sad fact is that most people you go on a date with won't find you attractive. That goes both ways. It's no fault on your end or theirs. It's just how life is. If you can't accept that, you need to grow more as a person before stepping into the dating world.

gymbronyc718 · 2023-04-30T14:15:00+00:00

There is no friendzone if you should up as a guy who fucks and makes it clear that that's what he's there for. The friendzone exists for guys who hide their sexuality in order to sneak in under the radar.

KaleidoscopeEyes12 · 2023-04-30T15:44:09+00:00

And by “4/5 times he is open for something more” you mean that he’s interested in hooking up. Women have to be more selective when it comes to hookups, and most want a relationship with it. They’re unlikely to sleep with a guy if they don’t think he can give them more than that. which most men can’t or won’t. if there’s really a “friendzone” for men, we should talk about the “fuckzone” for women (when a woman wants more out of a relationship but a man just wants to hook up)

CosmicBioHazard · 2023-04-30T14:17:08+00:00

Any time I’ve been ‘friendzoned’ it’s been a woman with initial intentions to sleep with me who lost interest when we got to know each other and I failed to escalate in a timely manner because (allegedly) I’m ONS hot and getting comfortable with me kills the attraction.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve also had women just not interested in me to begin with and we’ve become friends instead but ‘friendzoning’ to me is when sex that would have otherwise happened doesn’t as one party reroutes their intentions toward friendship.

Don’t ask me how any woman has ever had a boyfriend or husband if they stop being attracted once they’re comfortable with you, but know that in my experience, women are pushing for sex earlier than men when what they want is an LTR, so maybe getting comfortable with you isn’t as much of an anaphrodisiac if she at least has a memory of having fucked you when you were still a mystery to her.

Men, on the other hand, either don’t care or maybe have a slight preference for women they feel they can trust, even for casual, which gets them stuck in friendzones when their interest in a woman is piqued not in spite of, but because of their friendship.

Unattractive guys don’t get friendzoned, they get rejected.

SlashCo80 · 2023-04-30T12:13:44+00:00

I think a lot of guys just don't know or care enough to make themselves attractive. Miss me with the blackpill incel jawline, canthal tilt or whatever crap, and tell me honestly how many guys are putting genuine effort into their health and fitness, fashion sense, grooming, and personality and still failing.

Even then, some women won't find you attractive because you're not their type. That's normal. But unless you're Quasimodo, there should still be plenty who do.

TrueNeutrall0011 · 2023-04-30T12:27:46+00:00

A big issue is people don't know wtf they want. It's poor people always wanting to be rich for the majority of us. We think money will solve our problems because in a very real sense it will, but with that comes more problems and many of us realize eventually that we are quite comfortable with having enough to survive and a little extra for security and decent quality of life.

Relationships IMO are very similar for both men and women, though people understand here pretty well that women have it easier than men in this domain for sure.

Imo men and women are different and both lack instinct and Intuition in society. In very rare cases would I consider myself "close friends" with a woman. Once that level of affection and care begins to arise, if we aren't dating or going to the relationship needs to be re-evaluated and distanced. There's a different kind of feeling involved that doesn't co-exist with an actual adult friendship which will be way more lax and usually subject oriented conversation. I just don't think men and women are meant to be "best friends", though there are rare occasions it happens.

Friendzone gets a weird rap but it depends on how people are moving and behaving. If you're a simp in the friendzone for a chick and she's using you then rip yeah you're done. That's what you get for not having the balls to gather some dignity and build yourself imo.

If you're having mature adult friendships with the opposite sex then there's always opportunities to try for something more now and then. You can still be attractive in the friend zone is my point.

In all honesty, I think back to less attractive days for myself and my "friendships" with women were almost always them using me for attention, to look down on me or in some way console my insecurities and lonlieness. I don't think there was ever an actual healthy friendship until mutual attraction developed because that sort of magnetism makes intersexual relationships actually fun and interesting beyond just having sex.

Lolabird2112 · 2023-04-30T14:29:15+00:00

The “women are only attracted to the top 20%” is a myth.

A friendship is more valuable to me than banging one just because he’s cute. I find most of my male friends attractive, some are literally models. Doesn’t mean I’ll have sex with them, though, or want a relationship with them.

bob88c · 2023-04-30T14:41:08+00:00

I loved the friend zone, especially if the woman was less attractive or an emotional train-wreck. Reasons include having more friends to do things with (I love women so much, I love to just hang out), having a female wing-man was always good to approach other women, and best of all…when I finally met my future wife, there was a small (4-5) group of women friends who could not be more positive on me!!! Guys have got it all wrong, don’t hit on the women in your not interested or she is not interested), wait to sleep with them until you can figure them out(worth dating, messed up family, no self-respect) and try to respect yourselves enough to not date the disasters! You have to work to put yourself in front of women worth dating and hormones are the perfect driver (with some level of jerking off) to keep your senses!

Think about it! Do you want to share your toothbrush with a stranger? F-no, especially a stranger who has no respect for herself (because you better be eating at the Y and giving your best effort every time) and who knows where some of these women have been now that social norms are totally pushing women to explore. I am not bashing anyone but self respect(by both partners) is the only thing that truly makes sex so perfect! Otherwise it’s a glory hole! And if you are concerned about missing out…don’t be, my friend slept with ever woman he could but had no sense of connection or even fond memories of the “good old days”. I am not suggesting you wait either…I had feelings for almost all the ladies that I chased but I made two big mistakes with one resulting in STD and both shitty, uncaring sex! Mistakes also help you to move forward positively if you have the right strategy…

Built up your friend zone women, have self respect for yourself, and when those friends come a callin’…and some will most definitely when the “realize how great a catch you are” because you found a great partner…don’t do it!! The reason you had her in the friend zone to begin with is because she is a disaster and she is proving it by trying to break up your relationship! Don’t believe me on this…give it a try!

Some of the women responses here are total power trips and trying to hurt your feelings! Hopefully they figure it out..especially before they hit 30’s! Good luck and be positive…dating is so much fun and exciting!

Irys-likethe-Eye · 2023-04-30T17:31:39+00:00

Dudes that say shit like "friendzone" have created the idea of "friendzoned" because they have "fuckzoned" most of the chicks they've ever met. They think they like someone but really they just want to have sex with them. They don't actually like them as a person and so the concept of being friends is seen as unbearable or some manner of insult because they don't get to dip that wick.

Imagine complaining that someone has no problem hanging out with you and enjoying your company but since you don't get to fuck them too, that you're the one being misused as a person.

AndyBrown65 · 2023-04-30T12:28:40+00:00

Women love the “friendzone” become it means that aren’t seen as the baddie and they have a guy who adores her

neverjumpthegate · 2023-04-30T13:11:15+00:00

The friend zone is a thing because people have different standards on what they want in a life partner.

Lots of people need more than basic attraction to want to date someone.

ChadChasingB · 2023-04-30T15:36:56+00:00

I have several great male friends that are extremely attractive. Do they have quirks, habits, or differing views that would be deal breakers for me in a relationship that don't apply to a friendship? Yes. That's why they're friends and not a partner.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-04-30T12:05:24+00:00

80% of messages sent from women were to men rated as average or lower.

Tasenova99 · 2023-04-30T16:42:50+00:00

Men in a unit, distance from each other. they become rigid with the disciplines toward each other's struggles, and what is weak toward their personality. there are a lot of insults men throw back and forth jokingly knowing they can handle it, but the ego is a very difficult thing.

Every man, when looking to go the extra mile to get to know a woman, is typically inclined to think, "is she attractive, is she not negative, is she healthy, is she someone that I can be vulnerable with"

and then we get into the heart of something. vulnerability in all humans, is what we all want. Men hardwired in their brains, can show vulnerability with women, or help them build up their status.

I barely think about sex always on my mind when at first initiating with a woman, I am not really about it as much as you'd believe. what I am actually attracted to with the few women I've been friendzoned by is that they have an air of "no-negativity". I sit with an old man for work, and he is sexist as it can get. but the viewpoint that a weaker man like him has now when he has lost everything is that the women taking care of him "are all nagative, always sad, always depressing"

He is a bad person, but his ego and mind still have a point. the overall friendzone of why anyone stays a girl's friend, is that they may also be physically attractive, but if you are just not that negative person, or better yet, have a way of phrasing negativity toward fun! there will definitely be men wanting to stay in your circle

I don't really want to date til I can provide a house, but a light-hearted woman will always have that effect on men

Nihi1986 · 2023-04-30T17:40:08+00:00

I honestly don't see how is that friendzoning. It happens because she isn't attracted, sure, but there are many more reasons why someone would end up friendzoned.

Are we now calling it friendzone whenever someone gets rejected? The friendzone or getting friendzoned is a different thing, she might even find you slightly attractive and still friendzone you if she doesn't want a serious relationship yet and you do, wants a serious LTR but you don't, has something non serious with someone else and doesn't feel like doing that with another man, has too many options and can't decide...sure, being very attractive will definitely help you in those situations.

A friendzoned guy is usually a man who didn't really ask her out and keeps trying to attract her wasting his time, and this can be self inflicted or not, depending on how she reacts. Not much can be argued on the subject because most women will tell you they are just being polite, unaware of the interest or everything is in your head... Both men and women do friendzone people, but that's not basic rejection that's rejection+manipulation. (The not so rare 'I think I like you too but it's not the time' and similar stuff).

axob_artist · 2023-04-30T19:02:05+00:00

4/5 times she only wants to be best buddies with me.

Absolutely nail on the fucking head. Then you have women constantly justifying why they are rejecting an entire gender only to go and chase the same man every other woman is chasing.

They literally admit it and are proud of it. Then use it as a tool to get on social media and base their entire personality around shitting on, and hating men.

JustRuss79 · 2023-04-30T19:27:29+00:00

Partly true I guess?

The freindzone exists because low tier guys have no chance and Average guys don't indicate interest early enough or escalate correctly.

Normal situations, women aren't looking at guys for romance and dating. Guys meet them and think they can be friends first and then build to something more, but that is the trap.

Unless you are really really ridiculously attractive, and maybe even because of it, women don't want to risk their friendship with a decent guy for the chance at romance with them.

The saying about buying the cow when the milk is free goes double for men. Don't give her emotional support, time, energy... basically stop doing boyfriend things without the benefits. If you are doing it to be her friend, then do it to be her friend. Don't invest so much time and emotion into someone that is not returning what you want from the relationship.

It's not good for either party, and just leads to hurt feelings when He gets upset she hasn't "noticed him", and Her when he finally brings it up and she realizes he has been her friend under false pretense.

Your mothers lied to you about being nice, being yourself, and the right one noticing you and appreciating you. Those are good things, but in addition you have to indicate interest early and be persistent if that is what you want. Otherwise you are being "just like every other guy", she "thought you were different."

Maybe me having 2 kids calmed my tits, but sex and dating aren't THAT important to a fulfilling life. I've been a happy single dad without dating or sex for almost a decade.

angelicasinensis · 2023-05-01T01:48:29+00:00

Sometimes man/woman friendships are just awesome- most of my long term good friends are men 🤷‍♀️

NoTea4448 · 2023-05-01T03:14:48+00:00

Only mentally challenged men who are hoping for a mosel of chance are dumb enough to be in the "friendzone."

The woman doesn't put you in the friendzone. You put yourself into the friendzone. If she turns you down, move on.

BigVulvaEnergy · 2023-04-30T16:27:21+00:00

No.

You place yourself in the friend zone when you stick around someone who isn't attracted to you.

The average woman doesn’t need to find anyone attractive.

Radiant_Specific6542 · 2023-04-30T14:01:37+00:00

The friendzone is a thing because those guys are too much of a wuss to literally stop talking her. Move on. She's not interested and you want something different. It's not that complicated.

Ironically enough, if more guys did this, women would take men more seriously as male attention wouldn't be so easily accessible.

wtknight · 2023-04-30T14:03:19+00:00

An unattractive woman will find an average man attractive, though, because that's how hypergamy works. An average man can succeed at not being friendzoned by dropping his standards enough to attract women who are actually hypergamously attracted to him.

Men going after women out of their league who have no reason to hypergamously be attracted to them is the biggest reason why the friendzone exists, not because average men can never be attractive to women.

grendalor · 2023-04-30T15:10:51+00:00

No, I am a guy, and from my perspective having watched guys do this my whole life, it's the guys who set themselves up for this by not really wanting to be friends, but wanting something more. 9/10, the guy's interest in the woman is always at least somewhat sexual from the first interaction, so almost all of the time he simply isn't being honest about what he wants, and is trying to bide his time, and insinuate himself by taking the friend role and "seeing what happens". That's a bad strategy, and a dishonest one. The best strategy, if you have a sexual or romantic interest in a woman, is to make it known (if she is available) in an appropriate way, and let the chips fall ... not to try to befriend her to see if it grows beyond friendship, which is what is happening in most of the "friend zone" cases. In other words, it's a problem created by the guys. And it can be avoided not by avoiding being friends with women, but by making romantic or sexual interest known from the beginning, and letting the consequences flow one way or the other, while pursuing friendships with women you do not have sexual ulterior motives for.

Of course there are women who exploit this, knowing full well that the guys who materialize instantly to help her move her stuff or to give her a shoulder to cry on when the latest "douchebag" breaks her heart, are interested in her in more than a friendly way, and that isn't good either, but the behavior is created, in the first instance by men. Women do sometimes exploit it improperly (certainly not all women do, but some do), but they couldn't do that if men weren't sitting there pretending to just wanting to be her friend to begin with.

BullfrogKind5123 · 2023-04-30T16:05:08+00:00

I like how manosphere talks about a lack of accountability for women, and don’t get me wrong, there is a lot of women who are allergic to taking responsibility. But then we read posts like that where grown ass men can’t sort out their social life and communicate what they will and will not tolerate.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2023-04-30T13:57:23+00:00

It’s not just about attraction. Women don’t have the same level of visual sex drive men have so they don’t want to have sex to test compatibility till other forms of compatibility are shown to be there that would form the foundation for a ltr. Women also are viewed negatively for ravers sexual partner they have so there is no reason to test sexual compatibility first when there are negative consequences.

Snekky3 · 2023-04-30T13:22:03+00:00

The “friend zone” is a thing because women see men as people and see no difference between having a female or male friend.

HobbitShaker88 · 2023-04-30T21:26:47+00:00

Funny how most couples are average looking people together.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-04-30T12:49:19+00:00

No, it’s because men believe their feelings override anything a woman feels, they believe they know what is best for a woman despite her having feelings for a different man, and because they aren’t concerned with her desire and happiness at all and would gladly trap a disinterested woman in a romantic or sexual relationship so long as they get what they want.

valleyheartyo · 2023-04-30T15:42:18+00:00

The average guy doesn't know how to arouse a woman with his voice and swagger and mentality... Women aren't like man in the respect that they're not as visual when it comes to getting turned on... They friend zone guys because those guys don't turn them on... AKA so-called nice guys and the nice guys is in parentheses... Because those guys aren't actually nice they just pretend to be.,

No-Chance-8405 · 2023-04-30T14:08:09+00:00

I worked at a big airport of a European capital for about two years and had the chance to see a very large amount of men and women of various age from different countries.

From my observation I can tell that the vast majority of men are not attractive in terms of looks. I casually mentioned that to a female co-worker of mine and she agreed.

In the entire time I remember only two incidents where I saw a male passenger and thought to myself 'Omg, he is hot' and looked after him.

Most of men are also out of shape, and get especially unattractive when they get older (more than women). Women seem to take a much better care of themselves.

On a positive note, IF a guy is working out it's immediately visible and makes a big difference. Looks are not everything, but please, guys, try to stay in shape.

On a neutral note, most people, men and women, look unremarkable. It's very seldom that someone would really look attractive at the first glance. If men find 80% of women around their age attractive (how can they even focus on their work if that's the case? my respect for their ability to stay cool) we really have very diferent standards, which will make men always chase after women, whereas women will only chase after the very few guys who are attractive to them and want to be friends with the left majority.

I know I haven't changed your view, but I thought my experience might be interesting for the overall discussion.

KayRay1994 · 2023-04-30T14:46:13+00:00

the friendzone is merely an attempt at self-victimization, is it possible to be fully giving yourself to someone while they don’t reciprocate? 100% - but you aren’t entitled to somebody’s feelings or attraction so either get over it and be okay with just being friends, or move on if its too difficult

Backas_Before_Work · 2023-04-30T15:38:03+00:00

The “friendzone” is a thing because the guy put himself there and is too scared to let go. The moment he moves on it ceases to exist, meaning it’s not even real in the first place.

The average woman doesn’t need the average guy as a friend, because the average woman has a circle of female friends.

There are 4 billion women on the planet, if you genuinely like someone who sees you as just a friend, there is no zone to be placed in. You either be her friend, not some guy hoping in the back of his mind he will one day be with her, but her friend or you decide you can’t do that and you pursue other women.

There really isn’t much more too it than this.

zerofeetpersecond · 2023-04-30T17:19:57+00:00

I’ve always said the line between harassment and compliment is the line between Danny Devito and George Clooney.

BoopEverySnoot · 2023-04-30T17:51:36+00:00

I can’t get past this idea so many men here have that women go for the top 20% of men. Where did this originate? Who came up with this stat? Why do men in this sub specifically present it as fact? I’m not even being snarky, it’s just so curious to me.

I can only speak for myself but before I met my husband, I was a chronic friend-zoner. It didn’t have much to do with attraction but instead what I know about myself and who I’m compatible with. Some were great men and very attractive too. I genuinely wanted them in my life, just not romantically, so I asked if they’d like to be friends. Some were on board, some weren’t, and that’s okay. I think you might get varying answers that are individual to the woman.

Forsaken_Berry_75 · 2023-04-30T22:47:24+00:00

Hey OP, sorry to throw a wrench in your theory.

I'm a woman and I’ve been on dates with 6'2" literal models. They were paid models at modeling agencies, while also doing various other jobs for a living. I've felt meh chemistry on those dates and then have gone back to their place and saw that they live in utter disarray in their fancy and expensive high rise condos or houses. Their places look completely unkept with random stuff shoved everywhere and zero sense of any order, with slight hoarder vibes. When they would contact me to go out to dinner again, I’d always pass.
I've also been on a date with a 6'6" incredibly handsome man (not a professional model in that case) and he was on his phone checking his flights and business messages on multiple dates while we were at dinner. It was such a turnoff, as well as just displaying how odd and socially unaware he was.
Another guy was a ridiculously good looking doctor. But he pulled up in his Tesla, never opened the car door for me on multiple dates and spoke badly about his female patients and nurses. Could never find myself feeling attracted to him due to all of these things.

I have more of these stories than not. Just wasn't into any of these guys, and on paper you'd wish you could switch places with them on their physical appearance in a heartbeat. I promise you that men's looks aren't everything when it comes to our attraction.

valleyheartyo · 2023-04-30T15:44:06+00:00

Since those women cannot get arousal from those men they friends zone on them to be cucks to get some other benefit

Goyeyo565 · 2023-04-30T21:20:15+00:00

Most dudes that end up in the friendzone do so because they hide their romantic feelings for a woman behind a thinly veiled friendship while expecting her to see though the smokescreen.

The single best way to prevent ending up in the friendzone is to just be honest about your intentions and maintaining sexual tension by keeping your interactions flirty and respectful. If she's not matching your energy then you have your answer and move on. You only get friendzoned if you decide to stay and continue to force an attraction where there isn't any.

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EricFisherNo1 · 2023-04-30T14:30:49+00:00

The friend zone works well if you know how to handle it. If every part of you is friendly, so can your cock be.

APLAPLAC100 · 2023-04-30T17:12:12+00:00

so im supposed to just die gotcha!

doggiedoc2004 · 2023-04-30T19:13:52+00:00

I would just say two important things about the statistics you use:

1.) You (and all the others who tout the 80/20 rule) assume that women want the exact same 20%. This is not true at all. There may be a few men at the very top that most women would go for and there will be some general overlap with the 20% but it is not a 100% match. It is NOT the exact same 20% we are all pining over.

2.) Men may date and want to fuck 80% of women in their general age bracket, but the % of women that a guy would actually form a true LTR leading to marriage with is probably MUCH lower.

These are just opposing strategies because biologically, men and women have vastly different mating strategies evolutionarily. Females: be selective because sex and childrearing are costly to us. Males: dont be selective because fitness is dictated both by spreading your seed far and wide AND by possibly investing heavily on children you are pretty sure are yours.

Just-a-Pea · 2023-04-30T20:13:02+00:00

The argument seems to be based on the premise that there is some kind of universal ranking where you can draw the line for the top 20% of men or at the very least, all women have the same ratio. On that same line, you assume all men like 80% of women their age while some men like 1% and some like 10% and so on. Also they like different things in women. So the pattern here is that regardless of gender, not everyone finds the same traits attractive in others and not everyone likes the same rate of people they meet.

Now, regardless of your gender, it is a good idea to state your feelings when you are aware of them and/or then move on. Friendship is way better when all you want from someone is a good friend to share both their and your ups and downs.

A normal dynamic that I experienced a few times when I was younger and more attractive: 1. A and B meet and we get along great. 2. Within a month B thinks they are becoming close friends. Here I would comment how awesome is to become friends so quickly with someone. 3. A asks B out unambiguously but B doesn’t reciprocate. 4. Then they have a few days of awkward interactions while A moves on and decides if they can see B as a friend or not. Whether they stay friends or not, if A truly moves on they meet someone else and are happy to tell B about this person they just met and could talk to for hours on end etc.

If A and B are actual symmetric friends they may even become friends with their future respective partners. If A choose to not stay close friends, both may feel a loss for a short while but then move on easily.

DapperDan1929 · 2023-04-30T21:17:16+00:00

This is news why? Lol.

Conscious_Ad_6572 · 2023-05-01T00:03:56+00:00

it’s the ice cream that you put back in freezer when you’re favorite flavor runs out

NangKwak51 · 2023-05-01T06:56:45+00:00

Would this person help you move in exchange for some pizza? No? Then that's a friendly acquaintance, not a friend. They like you well enough, but not at the box-lifting level. A lover or potential lover? They would be a beast of burden, or for their REAL friends.

If you'd help her move, but are hoping for more than pizza, then you are still only a friendly acquaintance. Friends give freely to each other without expectation. You are not a real friend. Friends also tell the truth and want their friends to be happy.

Sometimes friendly acquaintances ask non-friends to do friend-stuff. They're not evil, they're just a little boundary-challenged or border-line opportunistic. Just politely don't do friend stuff for non-friends

When the verdict is 'not into you' there is no court of appeals. The odds of going from friendly acquaintance to lover are so minute, and the potential for embarrassment and resentment are so high. Whatever side you find yourself on in a just-friends mess, keep it classy and short.

I had a short relationship with a woman who liked me, really liked the sex, but deemed me not suitably polished for her media-friends to go to brunch with (her words).

After the sex got turned off, we were friendly for a bit. Then she asked me if I wanted to buy her a $600 coat, since I was a very affluent friend and had splashed out for some expensive meals during our brief courtship.

I told her: I might do big gestures like that for girlfriends, friends have to buy their own Starbucks.

She was't a gold digger, she was a confused opportunist. She liked a lot about me, and thought she could keep the happy aspects of that around, without having the less desirable ones in the mix.

After the coat discussion, the fake friendship ended.

RealassNiqqa21 · 2023-05-01T09:58:19+00:00

No one’s dad is telling them this? Like no one’s dad is telling them not to wait around for a woman you secretly have romantic feelings for that isn’t returning them? Or are men not bringing up these relationships to their fathers? Do people have less emotionally available fathers then I thought or are people not listening to their fathers and they have already told them this. Like which is it. How is this a thing that consecutively happens and yet men don’t tell their sons this or maybe peoples in the manosphere statistically don’t have dads or have emotionally unavailable dads and that is why we are here because I’m so confused on how this isn’t a rare thing but a common scenario.

dads please dril this into your kids. And for any teen boys on here start taking to your father or uncle if you have one to avoid this.

solitasoul · 2023-05-01T10:29:52+00:00

Then she's just already decided you're not a compatible romantic partner. What's wrong?

xcheshirecatxx · 2023-05-01T12:56:40+00:00

While I agree with a lot of stuff around the idea that women want hypergamy and over evaluate themselves....

the friendzone is where men put themselves: it's so hypocritical to act like you just want to be friends and then complain that's what will happen

-women don't want the same 20%: my tastes are different than other women

The real issue we have in society is that we tell obese women they are slay queen

NangKwak51 · 2023-05-01T14:18:10+00:00

You need a reason for the friendship to exist beyond that you both spent a little time together. I met an attractive to a woman and felt an emotional connection. And then she uttered the buzz kill: "I only date black men". Oh.

But we've met up once in a while since, exchanged books, had some juicy chats. She even offered to set me up with her friend. Mutual arty interests, shared references, non-grasping -it happens, just not often.

These things have a shelf life, but I still consider her as maybe not quite a friend, but more than a friendly aquaintance. If she comes to town and wants to sleep on my couch, no prob (my wife agrees).

Otherwise, we know someone in common and if I get together with that person (like, yearly), and she's around, we'll hang out together.

Feinstone · 2023-05-01T17:42:12+00:00

The friendzone is a thing because men allow it.

No woman will ever say no to free attention.

Dstar538888 · 2023-05-01T23:55:40+00:00

If you allow yourself to be friend zoned that’s 100% your fault 😬

nicoleberry16 · 2023-05-02T02:27:43+00:00

Yeah I mean looks is what usually makes the difference between potential bf or just friend for me. There's a reason it's called dating instead of friendship.

Safinated · 2023-05-02T08:44:52+00:00

Or, the average guy finds the average woman too attractive 🤷‍♀️

Title	The Friendzone is a thing because the average woman doesn't find the average guy attractive enough
Author	Napo_De_Leone
Upvotes	172
Comments	530
Date	April 30, 2023 12:01 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/133ncuo/the_friendzone_is_a_thing_because_the_average/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-friendzone-is-a-thing-because-the-average.1217221 https://theredarchive.com/post/1217221

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