What is so bad about Female Dating Strategy's teachings?

Runoutofideas777 · 2021-11-27T17:20:13+00:00

Oh my god, where to begin. FDS is quite literally the Incel community for women. Blaming men for literally everything, hating every type of male behavior (last I checked they were hating and absolutely picking apart a guy after his girlfriend posted on r/offmychest how she felt so in love with her boyfriend because he stopped immediately when she said their safe word, and they were going off about how safe words are a part of rape culture and basically all men are rapists). They also notoriously defend every type of selfish asshole behavior women have (like they will make excuse for women who cheat and basically spin the whole thing as the boyfriend’s fault). They say stuff like 95% of men are trash, and that men have to prove their value to deserve a woman, meanwhile women are perfect as is (which if you ask me is a literal example of misandry, as is literally every post on that sub). They demand a High Value Man and have insanely high standards (that not even Disney princes could ever fit) despite the fact that most of them are lonely aging women who don’t have their shit together. They demand that guys pay on every date, they say stuff like “his money is for the family, her money is just hers” and more and more shit like that. I’m not even exaggerating, it’s literally the same as the Incel community and it should be banned, not because they offend me or my “fragile masculinity” or whatever, but because that advice is mostly toxic and bad for women. Most of the admins are lonely women (which obviously means their strategy doesn’t work) and I even remember some months ago how one of the admins allegedly quit because, guess what, she realized she was not gonna get a single man committing to her with that abrasive and toxic attitude. I believe that at it’s core, FDS was created to help women not get manipulated and taken advantage of in dating and relationships, which can of course happen (as it can happen to guys as well) but right now it has gone out of control and it has become a misandrist, man hating cesspool. Yikes. I honestly feel sad for whoever subscribes to the FDS ideology (especially the more radical theories). I suggest OP to get out now before it’s too late, or there’s gonna be a lot of lonely nights sobbing and diving into your panties in her future.

nuclearmeltdown2015 · 2021-11-27T15:29:21+00:00

It's like that book 50 shades.

Average, plain Jane who has no skills, experience, or personality somehow catches the interest of this rich, hot, powerful guy who opens up to her and becomes vulnerable with her.

The man has an obsession with her, spends a bunch of his money to get her attention and approval, tosses aside his business and other commitments to put her in front of everything, fights for her, protects her, does everything for her that she can't do for herself. He does so much for her to try to win her over. Puts her up on a pedestal in a way she's never experienced. Gets hotly jealous of other men trying to court her and makes him want her more, makes him put in more work while she stands idly by enjoying the show.

Meanwhile, his attention earns her the envy and jealous scorn of all of the powerful/beautiful/high value women around her. They can't understand why she's so special. Why he wants her instead of them. They try to seduce him, but he stands pat and only wants her.

Great fantasy novel.

Flip the script. Be a normal, plain, average guy. Suddenly a supermodel / A-list actress sees you and obsessed over you. Buys you things to try to get your attention, all of your guy friends envy you, but you don't care. You want to focus on your career or whatever. This girl just wants you more. Tries to seduce you with her beauty that makes all the men go crazy.

Yea yea yea. Keep dreaming. That stuff only exists in books for a reason.

Like, unless you grew up your entire life in a cave unaware that you're ultra attractive to the opposite sex that shit ain't real and aiming for that type of a relationship is bordering on delusion.

Insidious-Sid · 2021-11-26T23:49:57+00:00

Scrap all that.

If you want a high RMV man become a high RMV woman (RMV = relationship market value).

(This is what Red Pill tells men: If you want to get high RMV, BE high RMV).

The criticism of FDS is that it focusses on "demanding the high value man" part and not the "being a woman worthy of a high value man" part.

It also reeks of the feminist double standard of having traditional rules for men while having zero traditional rules for women. In other words, a "modern strong independent need-no-man kind of woman demanding a traditional kind of man".

FDS is the female version of the Manosphere's PUA.

If you want a high-earning high value traditional man, you need to do specific things to attract that man:

If you want a gentleman be a lady. Telling a woman to "be a lady" makes their hair light on fire today, yet we tell men to be "men" and "gentlemen" all the time. BE A LADY. High value men from good families might fuck a trashy hood-rat with tattoos and a partially shaved head but they won't take this gal home to meet the parents. The new "badass girl" persona doesn't mesh well with upper middle class and upper class families. A woman like that will just embarrass him, and he knows this so he won't bring her around.
If you want a degreed professional to marry, you will have to be one yourself. And I mean a GOOD degree. Not, gender studies. A high value man with degree(s) and good prospects for the future has high-value degreed women pursuing HIM. Average women who think they can land a guy like this with "mindset" are deluded fools. Degreed women with good careers are having a hard time finding their alleged equals. These attractive degreed career women who are struggling themselves are your direct competition.
High value men with degrees and good careers often have thin, young pretty wives. Why? Because that's the kind of partners high-value degreed men with good careers can get.

If you're a reasonably attractive woman, get in good physical shape and get a good degree in a good field. Be a mature, respectable, smartly-dressed, funny and pleasant person to be around. Hang out in places where high-value people hang out. Make high-value friends, and meet a high value guy.

(Edit: Note that this is not really gendered advice, now is it?)

Telling women who are average or outright hood rats there is a strategy for landing a high value man is just sad. It's not going to work. These women will keep getting sport fucked by high value guys (who use them for casual sex only) and then come up with all manner of excuses why it didn't work out.

FDS women give off that fake "power bitch" vibe. Trust me. As a man I can tell you that besides a gross face and obesity there is not a single greater turn off.

If you want to be happy, I'd be careful doing the FDS thing.

But, you're welcome to fill your boots, give it a go, and send us a wedding photo featuring you and your high value man and prove us all wrong. It's your life.

yoooooooooooodaddy · 2021-11-26T23:20:24+00:00

The “problem” with FDS is that y’all expect a dream relationship from a HVM when even the average male doesn’t really want your frigid ass that much in the first place

Notice how so many woman on there complain about “mommy mcbangmaid” or some other variation of the term?

You really think that high value woman are picking up their men’s socks and treating them like moms? You really think high value woman have to beg their men for the bare minimum? Nah

but y’all DREAM of having that kind of leverage and power. so your strategy revolves around withholding some men’s sex while having it with others, manipulating your partners for emotional attention, and ghosting upon any mention of anything you don’t like. Basically trying to turn the tables fully in your favor

Imagine if a dude walked into a Toyota dealership, and said he wanted a Corolla. Salesman goes “it’s $25k”, and the dude goes “I have $2000… take it or leave it.. you’re making a big mistake”. When the salesman refuses to sell it to him, the dude smugly laughs in his face and says “I’ll take this money to the Ferrari dealer.. where they’ll REALLY respect me for who I am…”

you’d laugh your ass off right?

That’s literally how you guys act

Anantha1996 · 2021-11-26T22:51:48+00:00

FDS is simmilar to RedPill in that there is value to be extracted. If you can do that without getting radicalized, all is well.

poopiedoodie710 · 2021-11-27T01:33:21+00:00

The issues I take with FDS are that it teaches women to be classist (“My bag is worth more than your car”, referring to people as “peasants”, meanwhile some of the most essential job pay dogshit), racist (use of “pickmeisha”, I’ve seen a lot of them fetishize black men), and that’s not even getting into the rampant transphobia and their obsession with porn induced erectile dysfunction/demonization of sex workers. Moreover, I’ve seen how clique-y that sub can be and how they all dogpile on anyone who disagrees even slightly or deviates from their precious handbook. They tell women how to behave and oddly enough, objectify themselves in taking so much pride in how many suitors they supposedly have. I think incels/MGTOW are the absolute worst and that FDS is such a natural reaction from women who feel the same way as their male counterparts when it comes to dating.

I’ve also tried having discussions with FDS ladies on here and y’all are insanely aggressive if someone disagrees with you. I’ve quoted the handbook, quoted what these women’s arguments were to show them how their logic didn’t work out, and even being polite and responding point by point they’ve immediately gone into attack mode. It’s been my experience that the people who subscribe to that ideology have cultivated a very adversarial relationship with men, wherein you will always find flaw with any man, no matter how close he aligns with you archetypal HVM. It’s also my experience that y’all are hypocritical, like the recent thread where an FDSer tried to argue that it was okay for FDS ladies to go into therapy because they’re a “specific type of women” and therapy works for them, but any man who’s in therapy currently should be approached with caution because that’s a red flag. There’s more I could go into, but it would make little difference.

I also have to say that I actually followed FDS for a bit as a single man, thinking it would help give me some perspective from women’s POV, but the constant negativity and the way they’re always bashing men actually made me start to assume the worst in women I’d talk to through OLD, or even the ones I met in person. I had to stop looking at the posts otherwise I wouldn’t have started dating again.

UrFoodMolestedMyNose · 2021-11-27T02:43:41+00:00

I don’t see a problem with the core strategy of FDS. It works, it’s pretty good advice if you’re a woman just looking for the most financially useful guy.

Some women want that and it is in all honesty every woman’s (once they come to the conclusion chads are unattainable to them as an individual) eventual strategy to just get a “beta bux”. I only disagree with aiming to be married young.

I just don’t like the people there and the way the present this information. They are all so bitter- look I get why, but it’s so off putting when they spin every minor inconvenience into some grand conspiracy by men to fuck them over.

They actually seem the type of person to calculate every dollar you spent on them before deciding what to get you as a birthday gift. Ugh

I just can’t vibe with them. Good information, terrible mindset.

TheOnlyDijaini · 2021-11-27T14:12:03+00:00

Because the advise you are taking is from a person(s) who has been hurt badly and instead of trying again, they created a set of rules that isolate them from being hurt again. Dating Strategy is inherently flawed and designed to keep you single. At any time, any one of those rules could be used to ghost a prospective partner out of fear. Anything that is created from negativity generally results in negativity. In this case, that is fear. I wish you the best and I hope you find what you need.

poppy_blu · 2021-11-26T23:19:03+00:00

I’m just going to say it cuz men here need to hear it.

FDS targets women who’s dating pools are full of low value low class men. Maybe because they grew up poor. Maybe because they grew up in a community where the m/f ratio is skewed as such that they were taught to tolerate the dog behavior. Maybe because they were unattractive when they were younger and exploitative men sense the insecurity and pounce.

FDS is not for the hot 20 yo blond sorority chick from the suburbs who dates the frat President.

Seems to me it’s about helping women who’ve been conditioned to expect and accept shit behavior from men to de-program.

Just like the original intention of TRP was to deprogram men trying to get women by being betas, men with low self esteem and co dependency issues letting themselves get used by predatory women, men who just had no fucking idea what they were doing because they never had a social life, etc.

LackOf_Empathy · 2021-11-26T22:50:55+00:00

5.) Stop lowering standards for ugly and unattractive men.

The crazy part about this is that most women are average-looking. A lot of FDS be telling women that they are prizes when in reality most women are at the same level of attractiveness.

SirTruffleberry · 2021-11-27T19:41:36+00:00

There are legitimate reasons to warn against casual sex, but they are gender symmetric, i.e., they apply to men and women. If you are advising women in particular not to have casual sex, it's because you're teaching them that they shouldn't enjoy it for its own sake--that it is transactional. Why else would you not advise the same for men?

AnonRb6 · 2021-11-28T00:50:36+00:00

FDS?

Because that sub has little to do with actual ''dating strategy'' and is moreso FILLED with misandrist comments and posts.

Yes the word ''misandrists'' seems to be lacking in peoples vocab, yet everyone and their grandmas knows ''misogynistic''.

Also that 'pickmeisha' is the cringiest vocab they have.

baresquad · 2021-11-26T23:58:29+00:00

I don’t think fds is necessarily bad I just find my lifestyle incompatible with theirs (which is ok, we don’t have to date each other) even though there’s a few things I agree with

I HATE “pick me” women, I don’t think women should lower their standards or tolerate poor hygiene and vetting is essential

However their sort of traditionalist approach to sex and gender roles is where we fall off. An fds woman is likely to judge my sexual past and look to me as a breadwinner when neither of those are big deals in my life

AnnOnimiss · 2021-11-27T13:53:51+00:00

Not sure how it is now, but I was there when the subreddit started. Thought it was a good idea to give other woman advice (after plenty of dating and relationship experience, ended up being happily married to a high earning guy that splits the housework with me and thought it would be good to share.) I was immediately labeled a "pick me" for what I thought were reasonable suggestions and banned? Like I was giving actual dating strategies that worked for me (breaking it down short term vs long term) and it became immediately clear that that the people moderating content (at the time) were not the kind of people you'd want to be taking advice from. Again, maybe it's changed and it's not an echo chamber, but relationships are give and take. Be cautious of "one size fits all" kind of advice, and be mindful of the kind of people giving the advice.

over348 · 2021-11-26T23:57:48+00:00

Yall literally had post saying all short and ugly men should be euthanized. Yall are just femcels

ffandyy · 2021-11-27T04:55:32+00:00

Because it’s full of misandrist and straight hateful attitudes towards men

DonBullDor · 2021-11-26T23:29:04+00:00

No problem at all, they are just looking to get the best man they can get just like us we want the best HV woman we can get so why is it ok for us to have tactics and strategy and they don't?

omegaatlas · 2021-11-26T22:54:02+00:00

This advice makes women feel like they’re entitled to the highest caliber of men without improving themselves. Say what you want about rp but at least we aren’t delusional and think we are entitled to women without working for it first. I will say it here like I always say it. If you get pumped and dumped it’s simply because you aren’t attractive enough in both looks and personality. That’s really my only issue that they never ask what it is that that high value men want they just assume that they’re good enough irrespective of their, age, looks, tolerability and in the frequency and quality of sex they are willing to provide.

AreJewOkay · 2021-11-27T06:40:05+00:00

The concepts make sense it just suffers from the same downfall as the incel community. That is the community is just toxic.

If you browse by the top posts you can learn something as there are definitely a TON of shitty men out there. The basic principles make sense to eliminate them but the community has devolved into just hating on 90% of men. The double standards are terrible and you’ll see from the comments that the majority of the sub isn’t there for advice on dating, they are black pill and don’t believe men are worth anything.

wateroclock · 2021-11-27T02:55:27+00:00

Well, FDS reminds me of the sigma male meme. You aren't a lone wolf warrior, you're a loser trying to cope with lack of social skills. You aren't an amazing woman deserving the best men, the kind of men you deserve are exactly those who you get because you're their match, lol

Pablo_el_Diablo88 · 2021-11-27T07:51:55+00:00

You are pointing out FDS gets backlashing but you only want to know what teachings are wrong, hence you are posing a wrong question. The innate hatred towards men isn't a teaching, yet it's despicable in itself and should be enough to refrain from any kind of interaction with that sub.

betabucks666 · 2021-11-27T11:24:05+00:00

The sub is toxic

And the fact that everyone else(men) except FDSers are the problem.

_Oh_Be_Nice_ · 2021-11-27T14:47:48+00:00

I'm repeating myself, but it needs to be said:

Poetically, the women of FDS personify the destructive feminine archetype of goddesses and meta-characters of antiquity. Lilith. Hera. Kali, of my own Hindu tradition.

They embody the anima of the rage-fueled woman who's wrath is so great that it will destroy the world. She will embrace her apocalyptic thirst for vengeance upon man, even at the cost of her own children, particularly her own daughters. The collateral destruction of her offspring by her own hand frees her to commit more wicked deeds from a new-born desire for entropic destruction, rather than her initial desire for retribution.

In reality, their whole ethos can be boiled down to: "In order to emancipate ourselves from the patriarchy, we must dehumanize men."

FDSers ironically trade the prison walls of their perceived or real subjugation for their new self-built prison of unbridled antipathy.

They profess to actually want a man. In practice, no man will ever pass muster.

Not only would I never try to be with one, they would dismiss me immediately as a LVM "scrote". Every man is a LVM "scrote" to them. Because despite what they say, in their damaged eyes, AMALT.

davou · 2021-11-27T14:58:32+00:00

There's nothing wrong with any kind of relationship dynamic ever anywhere IF THE PEOPLE WHO SET THESE EXPECTATIONS LAY THEM OUT CLEARLY AND DONT PREY UPON DESPERATE FOLK.

Don't lie about what you want and need.
Don't lie about what you can provide.
Don't wait till you have someones feelings hostage to be clear with them.
Don't seek out vulnerable people and leverage their precariousness to get them to accept things.

P-o-o-b · 2021-11-27T19:00:49+00:00

Cause we're living in 2021 and women are unironically still complaining about "broke" men as if they don't have the same opportunities men do. As someone else pointed out it's classism. It's sheer entitlement. Then it's the manipulation "seeing how he reacts to saying no" so we're doing token resistance as a grown ass woman? Idk about other dudes but I could sense this bullshit in my late teens and it was a complete turn off. It seems like if they do find a guy it's going to be some poor unsuspecting guy, likeable relationship material women do not have to jump through these hoops

Mark_Freed · 2021-11-28T16:28:04+00:00

Just like Incel communities try to dehumanize women by calling them femoids, FDS uses Words like scrotes to refer to low value men (LVM) which is almost all men. This is a common trait of cults where they have a secret language for members to use, technical jargon is used to contain the shared meanings.

FDS is also similar to Red Pill since they both claim the opposite gender has no sense of loyalty. They warn their members to not try and "fix" their partners. These partners will develop self confidence and end up trading up for a better partner.

Just like Red Pill, FDS tells women not to Trust men, be vulnerable and share secrets. They will use it against you. Don't change to be compatible with him because he will leave you. Focus on yourself and have high standards, don't hesitate to block and move on. By having such high standards they are changing the marketplace and pushing men to do better. FDS is very unforgiving of mistakes, maybe as a pushback to women spending years forgiving and hoping the change will happen until they are drained.

FDS also thinks the emphasis on communication is misguided, these guys are adults and know exactly what they are doing on some level. Wasting mental effort thinking up examples, teaching them, giving them guidance isn't going to change them. They expect HVM to do the right thing with minimal or no direction, else they don't really care.

Just like Red Pill promotes plates, Friends with benefits (FWB), live in relationships, etc trying to get benefits of a relationship without serious commitment, FDS goes the other direction telling women to withhold Sex unless they get serious commitment.

FDS like MGTOW proudly states that being alone is great and there is no issue in such a life, it is better than partnering with most men out there.

I guess you think TRP is toxic, that is why I am drawing these parallels. There are good ideas in both these subcultures and if you can stay in the echochamber that is FDS and not pick up the horrible parts then that is fine but I don't think 99.999% women can.

Swine_Prince · 2021-11-27T02:57:56+00:00

Hm. Aside from the blatant misandry? It's sexist. It champions division between genders, it wrongfully encourages women to be aggressive and needlessly competitive under the guise of 'empowerment', it's toxic and dangerous. We have heard all too often about men's only groups that are supposedly 'dangerous spaces' for innocent men that look for confidence building via camaraderie, but end up promoting toxic masculinity and associated behaviours.

A simplified argument might be this;

//•- if you were to swap the genders around and felt differently about the statements and posts, you will have your answer-•//

• * •

A longer explanation with points would be-

• Deeply conservative and critical of women, placing stark limits on how they can act and what they should expect from a relationship. Feminism did not free women so they could be willingly oppressed and policed by other women.

•It is unhealthy and misguided. Coming from a Conservative and Authoritative stance, it promotes the objectification of women. It shows that such objectification is okay and normalises that women can be treated as objects as a result. https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/ewsp2j/post_your_list_of_physical_nogos_in_men_straight/

•It is shallow and degrading. It encourages aggression and stifles gentleness in women, the chasing of perceived attractiveness and wealth does not lead to healthy monogamous relationships.

•The implication that men only have value if they earn is so off the wall you might be forgiven for thinking it was a satirical belief, it seems to suggest couples that compromise and settle down because they genuinely love each other are inferior. It seems so out of touch with reality and more like a trope on tv or in films.

•Labelling people as 'high-value', and 'low-value' and thereby determining another human being is therefore inferior is morally sickening, and then to use a gender specific insult/moniker as means of identification is concerning. We do not tolerate hate speech of men upon women, why should we allow double standards?

The Good,

• sets practice for boundary setting and dealing with trauma and abuse

https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/eva6ug/this_sub_saved_me_from_a_dangerous_man/

The Bad,

• The sexual conservatism becomes oppressive to women (ie. Anti porn, anti consensual BDSM, anti sex-worker). The sub deletes posts from women that do not follow the rules strictly even if the women themselves say they have preference that they have chosen.

• These dating advice and books FDS offer and advertise have repressive norms about women’s sexuality, but they’re specifically about women policing other women’s behavior in the name of winning a man.

• The idea that a woman asking a man out is wrong and makes her a pickmeisha creates division and bitterness https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/deoi18/psa_femaledatingstrategy_doesnt_believe_in_asking/

The Ugly,

• Transphobic Will not allow trans identifying women to post https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/f108f3/reminder_rfemaledatingstrategy_is_a_terf_sub/

• Will refuse to cooperate with journalists and magazines for comments/interviews unless they themselves are provided with "Government Issued ID" as proof of identity and will not use other forms of validation. (The Verge)

• Lacking in compassion for any issues a partner may have, and insulting the woman for attempting to love and support him through it.

A woman asking in another Subreddit for dating advice on the subject of Erectile Dysfunction, https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/ey79zi/my_bf27_is_self_conscious_about_his_size_and_cant/?sort=controversial

was subject to predatory and judgemental behaviour on FDS

https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/eygu2o/pickmeisha_wasting_her_time_with_small_dicked/

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-11-26T22:44:14+00:00

If it works for them, great, I would just tell any self-respecting guy with your shit together to avoid dating a feminist specifically a FeministDeceptionStrategy user like the plague

The open misandry, the fact that they Advocate lying about body count, having a fuck buddy while making you wait, the fact that they want to be treated like traditional women without actually being traditional women, etc.,

It's kind of like how people View the red pill, in theory it's nothing wrong with it but from a distance even I know that there's a number of guys who have warped the message and infiltrated the space, and while people call the red pill misogynist and there certainly are guys within the space that it would be fair to call them that, at least the red pill/manosphere does not advocate for legal marriage, feminist deception strategy specifically advocates for marriage to the gender that they openly hate, a guy with options who has his life together should want to stay far far far away, and if he chooses commitment he should be with a woman who makes his dick hard in his life easy , not the other way around

TheJim66 · 2021-11-26T22:53:42+00:00

Honestly, my only problem with it is that it simply won't work. Sure, you probably won't be pumped and dumped if you follow their strategy but you also won't be able to get any man you'll be able to stay attracted to. The personality of a man that would pass the fds vetting process is a personality women find sexually unattractive.

It's a low risk, low reward strategy.

ToughAnswers · 2021-11-26T23:23:21+00:00

Demanding traditionalism while offering modernity. Anyone is free to prefer whatever they want, but if you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

Also,

What's so wrong with being a golddigger?

What's so wrong with being a pump and dumper?

Either both are "ok" (whatever that means...they're both legal) or both aren't ok.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-11-26T23:10:57+00:00

They give bad advice to women by telling them to get a man that would never settle for them by making him simp for them, which, let's be honest, if they could get the type of man that they wanted, they wouldn't need to be on FDS in the first place.

Demanding that a man simp for a lesser attractive woman who very likely is mentally and/or emotionally damaged from bad past experiences isn't going to have a hot successful man simping for them.

cccccclairee · 2021-11-26T23:16:10+00:00

If it works for them, power to them. Hopefully it makes them happy. Men who fall for all that shouldn’t complain that this is the person they got into a relationship with though. The writing has been on the wall the whole time.

kawasakiuno · 2021-11-27T10:53:50+00:00

I think that place is full of sad lonely women, that's all

SaBahRub · 2021-11-26T23:33:51+00:00

Their standards are protective, not practical

-Giga- · 2021-11-26T22:59:12+00:00

Nothing.

A lot of these dudes just cannot handle "tone" to save their lives. They don't realize how much communication gets softened for their benefit and neutered so they don't go full sui with the truth

All FDS does is speak unfiltered, old school common sense and also allows shit talking like men have always allowed in their spaces.

Problem is suddenly the manosphere care about virtue and fairness and whatever the fuck bc truth hurts. Men demand the lie.

The blue pill was created by men, for men. They dont really wanna know whats going on, they want to play victim and say no one told them. They dont want to know what women actually value, they want to tell us what to care about and how to feel and try to pull that shit every day.

So them and all the soft women who manage around misoginy just fine but are concerned about FDS being ToXiC just give them free and useful press. That's it. Who in good faith can look at those points and say its bad, especially from the manoshphere and the shit it pushes to the detriment of everybody

Redditors are soft af and making men stfu when women are speaking is revoluntionary to them bc discussion isnt centered around what pleases them.

DannyBostonNetflix · 2021-11-26T23:24:09+00:00

What is so bad about them? They talk about all of these things but don't talk about self improvement. None of them will ever criticize women if they are overweight, lack fashion style, or have oily skin. I've seen posts from women on FDS who talk about being overweight, bulimic, etc and these women get sympathy. Imagine an overweight men posting on FDS about his weight. He would get smacked.

That sub is full of misandry, vitriol, hypocrisy, and frankly hate. I truly get the sense that these women think they are above men. Here's one example from the thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/f706l9/what_are_your_requirementsstandards_for_a_man/

Just read this. The level of entitlement shown in this thread is mindblowing.

''UNAPOLOGETICALLY, my "list" for men is:
Must have completed and graduated with a Bachelor's degree or higher AT LEAST 1 year ago. I just ghosted a man after finding out he graduated December with his Master's degree.
Must make $100,000 or more, either with a job or via a business. No exceptions.
Must be 6'1 or taller. NO EXCEPTIONS.
If there is an age gap, it must be no greater than 5 years. NO EXCEPTIONS.
He must have A COMPLETELY INTACT HAIRLINE, AND ALL OF HIS TEETH. NO EXCEPTIONS.
He must workout regularly and have a visible 6-pack. I WILL NOT DATE FAT GUYS
He must be free of drugs, alcohol, and tobacco. NO EXCEPTIONS.
He must be childless at the time of matching. NO EXCEPTIONS.
He must have NEVER EVER PARTICIPATED IN THE ARMED FORCES OR THE RELATED FIELDS. I swipe left on ALL veterans. I ghost, block, and delete any man I match with, that later reveals that he has served in the armed at any capacity. Same applies for cops, firefighters, EMTs, Guards, or the related professions. Same for the relevant departments (DOD, FBI, CIA, DHS, DOS, etc. etc.). THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS. If he served for even ONE MINUTE, he's ghosted.
He must NOT have access to firearms or weapons. I see a gun in his profile, I swipe left. If we matched and he later reveals that he hunts or shoots for sport, I BLOCK, IGNORE, GHOST, AND DELETE HIM. NO EXCEPTIONS
No misogynistic men, men who use incel language in their profiles, or low-effort profiles.
He must be within 15 miles of where I live, or there is no deal. I'm not waiting more than 10 minutes for a man to pick me up. SOME EXCEPTIONS.
He must NOT be religious. I'm not giving up my sundays or eating any weird shit, or sacrificing anything to any god, or travelling on a pilgrimage anywhere, or doing any weird ritualistic shit, ever. NO EXCEPTIONS.
He must be handsome. NO EXCEPTIONS.
He must match my lifestyle of hedonism, luxury, impulsive spending, and excessive pleasure-seeking behaviors. I WILL NOT BE TAMED, SHAMED, OR CHANGED. If he cannot keep up with my expensive, fuck you-lifestyle, he can go fuck the other rejects in the ghostyard BECAUSE HE'S GETTING BLOCKED, GHOSTED, IGNORED, AND DELETED. I will NOT be made to feel like my success, accomplishments, privileged lifestyle, and tastes are something to be ashamed of.
You would think I'd never find anyone with this list, while being a black woman, but TRUST ME when I tell you, I'm drowning in matches and offers for dates. I have 5 men that I'm dating right now and a 6th trying desperately to court me. Plus 3 exes trying to crawl back. The ONLY infinitely renewable source of anything anywhere is single men. I swear there's an infinite number of matches. I can probably sit here and swipe all night long and wake up tomorrow and still have more matches to get through. ''

My goodness.

yo_dwayne · 2021-11-26T23:40:43+00:00

Oh oh, I got more:

They openly call men “scrotes” but I’d be willing to bet my life that they would say that men who call women bitches or “females” are low value 😂

Final_Ad3299 · 2021-11-26T22:40:19+00:00

I see it as a source of wisdom for women who no longer want to be exploited for sex and maid duties by men.

I agree, and what is so bad about it is that it works too well.

BacanaHeaven · 2021-11-26T23:05:27+00:00

Just my personal take as a guy.

I will highlight my views on some of the handbook. These are just my personal views and do not reflect men as a monolith in anyway.

Although I do find it ironic that they include a book by Mark Manson who happened to write "Models" in their reading list.

But yeah, Ive not read the whole handbook, I just skimmed it to get a general gist. Here are some random views and thoughts on it. If it works, though, it works. Good for you.

If you're morbidly obese, struggling with untreated mental illness, and just got fired from your Wal-Mart job, your energy is probably best spent on bettering yourself and your circumstances rather than dating.

In agreement here. However as far as FDS goes, its probably the same as TRP. Although it pushes for self improvement, not everybody does this and it becomes a whining echo chamber. Both TRP and FDS seem quite good at having this effect.

And I don't think I need to put a disclaimer on FDS, that high maintenance isn't the same thing as a gold digger, but even if you're a gold digger-- so what? Men are used to being in one-sided transactional relationships where they only ever get everything for free/almost nothing. They rage out at "gold diggers" because gold diggers actually demand equality in a transactional relationship.

Actively promotes gold digging and the use of relationships as revenge at men. To me that is not the basis for a relationship but whatever.

When you ask for your coat, instead of taking it from him, give a little smile of thanks, and turn around and put out your arms (behind you, not out to the sides - you're not a 4 year old). He should help you find the armholes then ease the coat up a bit and then you take it from there. When you’re in the passenger seat of his car (obviously this is further down the line!!!), or you are in a taxi and you’re about to get out: wait until the car has stopped and then spend a few seconds straightening yourself out or fussing with your handbag. He might hop round and open your door in this time, and if he does, a brief but beautiful smile looking upward toward him will have him floating on a cloud, and he’ll make sure to do it always. One day - months down the line - tell him that it was something you first noticed in the early stages with him, and that you appreciated it. An HVM will try to build on this and keep finding more nice things to do. In a restaurant, if something is wrong, for example you need another napkin or whatever, always tell him, before you tell the waiter. This gives him the chance to fix it for you by calling he waiter and requesting what you need. If he does this discreetly and smoothly, this is a good sign and believe me, you can get used to this kind of respect. It’s bloody lovely and it permeates through your relationship. As you build on this, there is eventually a subtext that you think highly enough of him to allow him to do things for you, even though you are perfectly capable of doing it yourself.

Sure if your dating a true gentleman. But you had really best bring something amazing to the table. After the crackdown on chivalry and complaints about this sort of behaviour it seems bizzare women are now wanting it. But cool, if the dudes you date treat you like that, then they must obviously see something in you.

If you have jewellery that you received from someone you love, and you like it, wear it on a date. If he comments, just say ‘thank you, it was a present’ and move on. If you have nice jewellery that you bought yourself, say 'thank you, I bought this to celebrate X' (tell the truth). Doing all of the above signals it's not costume jewellery, it's of value, and/ or sentiment. No harm in costume jewellery - as a reminder I'm just talking from my personal style. You can alter it to suit you and your tastes. It could be that you're wearing a treasured band t shirt in which case say 'thanks I got this at the gig at X'. It could be your sense of humour in which case say 'thanks I think it's really important to see the funny side of life' Basically, use certain compliments to amplify certain messages.

Fair one. All a confident person can do to respond to a compliment is say thank you.

Unless he's consistently investing his resources in you, he has no place in your life

Unfortunately this part has been removed from the handbook. But as a guy if I am dating some one, I am getting to know them. If they show me worth then cool. But until they show worth, they have none. Beauty is common, what the f**k makes you so special. And yeah I use that line straight from the mouth. The responses and self qualification I hear is amazing.

Doing a phone or skype interview creates enough emotional distance for you to be objective in your evaluation. This becomes harder with face-to-face interviews.

Ahh the pre-date interview. As a question does this work? If I have met someone and want to see them again, this behaviour would be an instant red flag.

LVM and HVM stuff

A LVM will pick you up from the bar after you go out drinking with your friends. He'll complain about it and whine that he doesn't want to drive them home. He'll ask you if you were hitting on guys and he may blow up your phone while you're out with passive-aggressive bullshit. He'll make it clear that picking you up was a "favour" and you should be grateful and that it won't happen all the time. You'll have to remind him that he agreed to it, and he'll be annoyed that he had to take 30 minutes out of his evening of gaming to come and get you.

Whilst some of that does sound passive agressive and insecure. As a guy, if I am in a relationship or dating, I don't sacrifice my life to become a taxi driver. I may be out myself.

A HVM will pick you up from the bar after you go drinking with your friends. In fact, he'll volunteer immediately when you tell him your plans for Saturday night. He'll want to make sure your friends get home safely. He'll respond if you text him but will mostly encourage you to go have fun. If he's early, he'll let you know that he's waiting but doesn't expect you to stop partying the minute he shows up, or he'll pop in to buy everyone a round, even though he isn't drinking. If you get distracted and leave a bit late, he might be concerned, but he'll be understanding because hey - it happens! He'll want to know if you had fun. He'll make it clear that he was happy to take 30 minutes out of his evening to support you.

Sure if a HVM is someone who does not have a life of their own.

He may not personally care about getting the housework done a specific way, but if it's important to you then he makes it important to him. You're still probably going to do 60% of the housework (or maybe he's a unicorn and you really are splitting it 50/50) but if you ask him he will immediately acknowledge everything you do. He will try to take on other tasks in order to make the division of labour more fair. He'll suggest and happily pay for a housekeeper, because he knows you are not a maid.

If your splitting housework, that does not mean you view someone as a maid. Does a HVM view himself as a maid. Housework still needs to be done. In a relationship, its a split. Or lets split up and you can do yours all by yourself, whatever.

Keep your heart on lockdown until he has demonstrated consistently that he cares about making you happy.

So being cold and uncaring will make a man want to be with you. OK...

How to Avoid Getting Pavlov'ed via Technology

In all fairness this bit would suit me. I prefer talking in person to texting and I am not massive on social media. But kind of ironic that FDS says to limit social media then the community is full of Tik Tok and social media posts.

Drink Dates: Don’t Do Them if You’re Looking for a Relationship

Mehh. Most women I meet are at venues/events involving alchohol. If I met someone at one of these places then they didn't want a drink date, it would seem wierd. Never happened to me though. So yeah... whatever

Stoic_WillToPower · 2021-11-26T22:40:18+00:00

It is often coupled with elements of female superiority and misandry. I don’t really care though. Women gate keep sex snd men gate keep relationships. They will never overcome that dynamic. That is why there is so much anger. No matter what they do HVM are just not going to be interested

relish5k · 2021-11-26T22:53:51+00:00

Men here think it's a rehab program for former THOTs who they would just prefer to disappear or commit to a life of uninterrupted whoredom rather than try something different in order to be happy.

So they don't like it.

Det_Steve_Sloan · 2021-11-27T10:43:57+00:00

Because those using Reddit long enough have seen the pics FDS'ers have uploaded of themselves. Fat, ugly liberals do not get to become arrogant, nasty choosy beggars.

midwestufohunter · 2021-11-27T01:17:03+00:00

It makes it hard for men to manipulate you and extract resources from you.

That’s it.

That’s why they hate it. They wish you would just shut up and accept the poor living conditions men offer.

_HEDONISM_BOT · 2021-11-27T00:02:58+00:00

I’m an FDS strategy coach, and the only reason men hate FDS is because we put names to the bullshit tactics they try on women.

We don’t let them get away with SHIT. We call them out on their bullshit and let women know when their time is being wasted by fuckboys.

Fuckboys hate it when you make it difficult for them to get laid. They’d rather be able to scam, lie, and deceive their way into your pants.

We also label and identify “male authored dating advice” that’s aimed at women and doesn’t have women’s best interest at heart.

Fuckboys love it when women go Dutch and put out on the first date. FDS advises women not to go Dutch or sleep with men until a commitment is obtained. We also teach women to walk away from a man at the FIRST red flag, forever.

We teach women how to avoid getting their time wasted. Men hate that.

Mr_mojo_rising22 · 2021-11-26T23:17:36+00:00

I love reading through FDS posts can’t help but get the vibe that you attract what you are tho. Pretty much 90% of FDS posts are women complaining that every man that comes within arms reach of them are disgusting low life’s that smell bad and won’t pay there bills for them. Then moan that there shortcomings are due to low value men and not there own attitude

Good luck on that high value relationship tho maybe join some actual feminist subreddits for genuine advice and not word vomit from bitter women.

Teflon08191 · 2021-11-27T00:17:55+00:00

The fundamental problem with FDS is it tries to convince mediocre women that they aren't actually mediocre, and that instead of making themselves into something "HVM" would actually want (which they make silly caricatures out of vis a vis "pickme mommy mcbangmaid"), they should just dig their heels into the ground further and wait for a "HVM" to settle for their "perfect as is" mediocrity.

Dependapotamus209 · 2021-11-27T01:42:07+00:00

Idc just follow what they say let me know how it went for you when your around 45 or so

nothatyoucare · 2021-11-27T07:50:59+00:00

I've said before on here that dating between men and women is fundamentally broken and FDS seems to take the broken parts and make them worse.

The problem with modern dating is you got a sex that screams equality equality equality and then does the following: (I'm speaking in generalities so add in the "for the most part in general etc etc in your head)

1) Wants men to go through a process that women refuse to participate in aka approaching and courting

2) Then criticizes men how they do go about going through this process that they refuse to participate in

3) Despite the fact that all things being equal if women DID do the approaching and courting the odds would be better stacked in their favor.

NO ONE likes being held to a standard by a person who won't hold themselves to that same standard. Women are already super bad about that and FDS does nothing more than to amplify those already atrocious habits.

Artsyhipster · 2021-11-26T23:11:44+00:00

This worked for me, except for the hygiene part, but we both have shitty hygiene.

Zerofication · 2021-11-26T23:45:57+00:00

Some of what they tell women is actually a good advice, like not giving up sex without commitment, but that doesn't mean it doesn't come with bad advice as well. My main criticism is that they teach women to go against their nature and become more masculine, and Just like how a man acting feminine makes his dating life infinitely worse, the same goes for a woman acting masculine in a relationship.

SwinginPastMyKnees_ · 2021-11-26T23:53:34+00:00

Some things make sense:

1, 6 & 7) Of course you should make sure that the men you want act in a manner that is conducive to a longer-term relationship. Though I must say that some people don't really know how bad their hygiene is. I once had to tell a woman that and she was surprised. It was one thing in particular, but I won't go into detail since it's besides the point.

Some things invite questions:

3) I never understood why pickmeisha is a negative term. Don't you want to be picked?

Some things require some elaboration (IMO):

4) You only become the temporary girlfriend/wife when he sees you as a less attractive option. If you're always his most attractive option, then he has no reason to stray/leave or even think about looking elsewhere. Meaning, if you become a pain in the ass or gain 30+ pounds or something else that might hinder his attraction for you, then you might lose him. I haven't seen many FDS posts that talk about self-reflection.

Some things might not work in today's environment:

2) In today's open sexual marketplace, not having sex with a man to whom you're attracted might result in him leaving before any sort of relationship occurs. And if you're aiming for men who are on the more attractive side (meaning other women are likely vying for that same guy), he'll have other options who will gladly sleep with him. He's not obligated to commit to you before sex if other women are happily offering him that no-commitment-required sex. This might leave you with fewer and less attractive options. Though, at the same time, you'll keep more of your dignity, which I agree is a good thing.

5) Another thing I don't see mentioned in any FDS posts are figuring out where you lie on the attractiveness scale in order to maximize your success in dating. It's one thing to not lower your standards to ugly and unattractive men, but what if those men are on your same level, relatively speaking? Wouldn't it be a surer deal to choose a less attractive man but who has redeeming qualities, such as a better lover or someone who makes more money than the rest?

Sure, you can "level up" by going to the gym/losing weight and wearing better tailored clothes, but that might only open slightly more attractive options. And you're fighting naturally declining looks/fertility in the process. In the dating world, men play the active role in that they choose who they want to date. They already know they're attracted to the women they approach. Women play more a passive role in that they pick from the men that approach them. Women should focus on making themselves as attractive as they can be and then putting themselves in a position to attract men that they could reasonably attract. Otherwise, they may end up empty handed. I have never seen that point mentioned.

Overall, I don't think FDS strategies are bad. However, some of the approaches might prevent you from finding decent men. And men who are more attractive / more successful will know how to spot leeches and non-genuine women. FDS strategies can make finding those elusive HVM even more difficult, IMO.

Lastly, your mindset in using these principles will greatly affect their efficacy. If you go into dating trying to maximize what you gain while offering little to the men you want, you'll likely fail. If you go into dating with some hidden hatred towards all men, you'll also likely fail.

Plopolok · 2021-11-27T03:08:38+00:00

There's some hypocrisy in how they claim to be looking for a fulfilling relationship, but they only talk about what strategy is optimal for them. A happy relationship is about making two people happy. And usually these two people have some flaws.

They're also way too focused on material stuff: he needs to be so rich that he won't mind paying expensive dates to a girl who might ghost him at any moment. That's not a good way to vet for someone who will be a good father to your children, that's just a way to leverage your dating into a fun luxury experience. You might as well be honest with yourself and go all the way to r/sugarlifestyleforum.

EviessVeralan · 2021-11-27T04:32:56+00:00

If FDS was just about the rules i wouldnt necessarily care, in fact theres a lot of overlap in beliefs between myself and the rules you mentioned. Its when shit like this gets posted and gets a ton of upvotes and rewards is usually why people dont like FDS.

nerojt · 2021-11-27T06:59:50+00:00

No sex before commitment assumes all women want commitments. This seems like an error.

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-11-27T08:34:48+00:00

2.) No sex before commitment/no casual sex

They don't actually follow that but instead split their needs so that they:

Have sex or have had sex with men to fulfil their sexual needs
Delay having sex with men for whom they consider as potential to satisfy other needs.

Beltadowa · 2021-11-27T09:20:51+00:00

I'm female and I've really enjoyed reading FDS and a lot of what they say. Two things that aren't for me though, is the attitude the attitude sex and money.

I have a high sex drive, I don't want to go for months without sex. I shouldn't have to. I fully support women who want to do that but I don't, and I don't think it has harmed my relationships to have sex fairly early on, or to have casual sex between relationships. One size doesn't fit all and I don't think I should have to deny myself an adult human need.

The money thing is weird, maybe because I'm not American. On a first date, I don't want to invest much because you often know in about 3 seconds if you click or not. Why should one person buy the other person dinner in that situation? A coffee date or a walk in the park is fine for a first date. Splitting the bill is totally fine, if you both have jobs which most people do. I don't agree with FDS' standpoint on low effort first dates or insisting that men pay for everything.

I imagine these are totally different to the reasons red pillers dislike FDS, the claim that they are a hate group is absurd. Oh we called you scrotes boo hoo. Women have been called all sorts of names for centuries grow the fuck up.

tryingmybestatm · 2021-11-27T10:05:52+00:00

actually i rlly liked some things they said like not to get pumped and dumped, don't break ur boundaries just becoz the guy looks rlly good.

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-11-27T14:27:17+00:00

It's a good guide for the clueless but it raises the larger question; why the fuck are we so desperate and clueless? Was it always so or is it catastrophically worse? I think FDS is full of bad ideas but for someone who is basically raised almost solely by the internet it's indispensable.

Whynotbebetter · 2021-11-27T14:33:36+00:00

Ow, well I'd say that there's both wisdom and bad ideas in there.

"Only want men who want you", like you can decide what to want. You can't. You can't control what you're into.

"Stop lowering standards" is somewhat true. But it's something you gotta be really reasonable around. Simply: Do you want the perfect boyfriend even though you may never get him, or would it work with a great boyfriend that isn't perfect? Cause there's both the "Settle for less"-disease, and the "Forever alone cause I'm looking for Mr Perfext"-sickness :P

Btw, what's a "pickmei

How he reacts to being told "no", etc." thing I agree a 100% on. Is he all about agreeing with what you say and "sounding good" (generally, is he a politician? xD), or is he actually good?

Megabyte7637 · 2021-11-27T17:09:44+00:00

JacobMoogberg69 · 2021-11-27T21:59:31+00:00

It's a step by step guide to becoming a high value whore. One who exchanges her sex for commitment, money and status.

GaryClarksJuniors · 2021-11-29T01:43:53+00:00

If you look at community overlap FDS is largely just spergy often single 30-50 year old women. Also, at least initially it seemed like a community largely dedicated to the Mods power tripping and ego stroking themselves often bullying the “FDS newbie” posters. A weird place for sure.

Jamless_universe · 2021-11-27T03:15:30+00:00

The only bad thing about FDS is their teachings make it harder for scrotes to use/manipulate naive women.

Obviously scrotes and their pickmes gonna complain about it.

How dare women have any standard and self respect for themselves!

omegajelly200 · 2021-11-26T23:08:32+00:00

5) is what makes it so bad. Ugly and unattractive men are actually decent-looking men if you ask men about it.

FDS does not ever teach women the concept of self-reflection and humility. It teaches women instead that they could never do any wrong and that it's always the men's fault nobody wants to wife them up.

And moral/behavior/lifestyle standards, tied to men's BMI and muscle-to-fat bodyweight ratio? So FDS is saying that Chads can get away with showing flaws? Because that is what I see women do all the time. Halo effect and lookism everywhere. Pure discrimination by beauty. The more handsome, the more flaws are forgiven.

Actually do look at themselves in front of the mirror and accept that without the makeup / filters and photoshops they are Plain Janes. They are not the Stacies and Giga-Stacies that they think they are. The 'ugly men' that they disparage so much are really their true matches led by the invisible guiding hand of the dating marketplace.

7) also, lol. How about they vet themselves first before they let anyone into their lives? What makes they think they deserve a 666 man? A bunch of filtered photos with empty bios on Tinder? No, women are not the table. If a man wants a table he would go to a furniture store.

cautionTomorrow555 · 2021-11-26T23:08:59+00:00

Blatant man hating, advocating for mistreating your partner, double standards for your behavior that you would get angry if a guy was doing, saying your delusional standards are fine and you don't need to improve, thinking your career/money actually makes a difference and should entitle you to better guys despite guys not caring about that, and tons of other things.

Here are some hard examples

Saying it is fine to have a fuckboy on the side while you make the HVM wait. Why are you making the guy you want more wait and are treating him worse?

Refusing to acknowledge that they prioritize looks over everything else then complaining the guys have bad behavior or bad hygiene. If you are a 2 dating an 8 the only reason he is with you is because he has other downsides such as those two things otherwise he would be dating an 8 not your 2 self. If you want better behavior stop dating guys so far out of your league.

In addition to this stop thinking your shit doesn't stink ladies I have cleaned womens bathrooms before you are all some filthy motherfuckers so stop acting like that and start being more forgiving towards your partner. For a personal example one woman I dated I could tell how long it had been since her last shit based on how it smelled when we were in certain positions. Another had underwear that was crunchy. It is not just guys that can be gross as hell!

If you are ugly you better have a good personality and treat the guy better to compensate for it which is the opposite of what FDS suggests.

edit: another big one I noticed they expect to be waited on hand and foot treated like queens, but do FUCK ALL for their partner and get mega butthurt about being mommy bangmaids it is a massive double standard.

To summarize as a TLDR you think you are better than you actually are, are incredibly entitled, and treat men badly so the chances of any HVM tolerating that are ZERO. They can instead find someone younger, prettier, and with a far better personality than you.

IcarusKiki · 2021-11-27T01:50:02+00:00

its jarring for men bc they are being exposed to “girl talk” for the first time. Like how TRP is just locker room talk but elicits gasps from women hearing it for the first time

YveisGrey · 2021-11-27T03:26:36+00:00

Everyone keeps saying FDS defines HVM as tall and rich. I have never seen that on FDS, HVM are defined more broadly as men who respect and treat women well, aren’t porn addicts, have stable jobs, are independent, and have good hygeine. Again never seen anywhere on FDS that there is a height requirement for HVM or a salary requirement. I think angry bitter men are just building a strawman to attack. And in my personal experience FDS works. I am with a man who is “HV” takes me on actual dates to actual restaurants, is my bf officially asked me out but we still haven’t had sex yet (I still need to vet more), is well educated, has a stable job, and is a generally kind person. It’s still early in our relationship but I am so happy I didn’t settle for some “lesser man” out of fear of ending up single because I would be miserable. I have met some real duds over the years I have had many dudes dump me for not putting out, I have also had to dump men over my deal breakers, I honestly didn’t think I would ever meet a guy like my current BF despite frequenting FDS but I did so idk what to make of it except that for me FDS has worked well for me at least.

sernamedeleted · 2021-11-26T23:10:42+00:00

My main problem with it is I don't see "Comunicate openly and honestly with another human being in an effort to try to find shared interests and common life goals" in the strategies used. And any strategy for human relationships that doesn't follow that is destined for failure.

Kaisha001 · 2021-11-26T23:15:15+00:00

It's a self defeating strategy. If you implement it, you'll get more LVMs and less HVMs.

This stems from it's very premise, that HVM will approach and put up with all sorts of nonsense for these women. Except this is incorrect, they won't.

It's like teaching a course on venture capital investment, to people on welfare. It just doesn't apply...

Taipanshimshon · 2021-11-26T23:57:21+00:00

The difference between fds and trp is that FDS actually teaches women that their vagina is their only commodity.

Trp actively suggests that a guy should have his shit together before even dealing with women.

Fds just assumes that all guys want Is the V and it doesn't matter what package it's in.

Not personality.

Not fitness.

Not ability to provide for itself

Nothing.

.FDS assumes that the value of a woman is solely between her legs

Aldabruzzo · 2021-11-27T00:35:51+00:00

The "strategies" FDS advocates build women who attract beta simp bitchbois whom you'll marry, use, exploit, and then divorce rape. Then you'll wind up at my subreddit, where we'll showcase you based on your Bumble/Tinder profiles.

FDS women are unable to attract high value men for anything other than pump and dumps. You can attract beta males, who will put up with your maltreatment and dysfunction for a little bit of starfish sex.

Ultimately, FDS hurts you more than it hurts anyone else.

Houseoftucci · 2021-11-27T01:14:26+00:00

FDS principles are - prima facie - fine. It's have some self-respect and go for a man who respects you. The rest of it is just The Rules with the serial numbers filed off.

However, like TRP, it gets toxic when you get a critical mass of embittered losers ginning each other up to hate the opposite sex; plus a few grifters trying to make a buck.

Oh yeah - they're hella transphobic as well. They just have to throw a sheet over it these days for fear of getting banned.

Commercial-Engineer3 · 2021-11-27T02:17:00+00:00

Women who follow Female Dating Strategies are bad faith actors. Ditch that toxic movement.

Tequila_Shot_Cigar · 2021-11-27T04:21:40+00:00

I'm a guy and I agree 100%. I think it's horrible that women are often shamed or socialized into doubting themselves and not sticking up for themselves and having standards in relationships, for fear of appearing "controlling" or even worse misogynistic labels that I shall not repeat here. Men are certainly not similarly shamed. Therefore, FDS provides great advice and support to women.

Spigot_AT4 · 2021-11-27T05:15:18+00:00

Dude, FDS literally says it's ok for women to cheat, but not men and that sentiment is so prevalent that it has its own name (scrotation). This in of itself brings up a new point, they have a dedicated slur for men. They hate men. There was a post recently saying that all men are predators and creeps until proven otherwise. Stuff like this is just stuff I came across recently from other subs.

Just spare me with all the "FDS just teaches self-love for women and to have boundaries", are you joking? Of course you're gonna focus on the non-controversial principles and ignore the crazy stuff. Incels do the exact same thing: "we're just lonely virgins venting online, there's no need to hate us". You think using the same tactics as incels will fool anyone? Are you really that naive or are you just hoping everyone else is?

MaliaXOXO · 2021-11-27T09:55:55+00:00

All I know is ever since I stopped dating men my life has gotten significantly less stressful, I'm not as scared getting raped and I'm much much happier. The entitlement and expectations they have for women are beyond unreal to me. Living as a disabled women in a world full of men that expect maid duties while they do nothing is fucked up. My dildo brings me more joy and it doesn't expect me to do dishes .

jesus-worshipper · 2021-11-27T10:28:49+00:00

It’s a female version of MGTOW. That’s all everyone needs to know. And if you think there isn’t anything wrong with that subreddit, God help you.

Hawk1141 · 2021-11-27T12:16:56+00:00

The 2 main problems with FDS is, it overvalues the price of pussy/sex, and overvalues a man’s need for sex.

Fit-Photograph1646 · 2021-11-26T22:44:01+00:00

I agree with mostly everything they say and all but when i was in that sub a while ago where they bodyshame men and then are repulsed by female sex work. That's when I know these girls don't really mean half of what they say. Nor do they deserve as much as they think they're worth.

tls330 · 2021-11-26T23:19:31+00:00

2) No casual sex.

That is just flat out wrong. They are perfectly fine having casual sex as long as it's not with the guy they are trying to date seriously. Any friends with benefits or tinder hook ups are good to go. Sure not everyone there participates in it, but celibacy is not part of their teachings.

And that's my biggest issue with FDS. That the man who puts in the most effort gets nothing (sorry they get the privilege of your presence) while the dudes on the side can have sex for little to no commitment. Literally AF/BB. They complain about red pill guys but then reward those same behaviors. If you spend time and money on her there's a chance she will ghost you down the line for the littlest red flags. But as long as you're hot and cool you're fine for a fling.

OwnerAndMaster · 2021-11-27T01:26:25+00:00

200K members, 2 marriages as "successes", biggest overlap is DatingOverThirty

FDS are the losers of the female population. To attempt it at all places you in the lower half of women, 4s and under in SMV

In the wise words of Kevin Samuels, we judge by outcomes. Women generally don't need "dating strategy", if they take a bath and don't be overweight, dating a man at their level is effortless. What women usually need are expectation management and life coaching

A 6 foot 6 figure 8 pack 8 inch guy is 1 in a literal million, you can't mindgame that guy into monogamy, literally 80% of women are chasing him. If you're a cute but not stunning, sorta in shape sorta not, bust-belly-bum ratio is regular, basically you're average = 5, maybe 4 maybe 6. You qualify for an average type of dude, mid 5 figures, 5'9, 6 pack if he squeezes, 5.5 inches in bed. That's a completely regular man, your proper level as a completely regular woman... and women can't stand hearing that they're not gonna end up with their dream guy. They actually resent their husbands later in life for it. That's why women need expectation management
If you just got serious about looking for a husband and you're 30+, wear a double-digit dress size, have a kid by a man who wasn't married to you, $80K in debt from your degree, etc... that's where the life coaching was needed. Because when you ask where are the good men, they're going out of their way to avoid you as a partner due to how detrimental to themselves it would be to partner with you. Ruining your life and making shitty decisions lowers your SMV regardless of gender, but the baby and weight really hurts a lot of western women, to the point that both single mothers and overweight women are pushing initiatives to normalize dating them in public. Doubly so for divorcees. If you left your husband, you've already shown you're willing to take a man's money via the courts. If your husband left you, exactly what did you do to him to make "cheaper to keep her" not make sense? You've really gotta sell your reasoning for divorce to well-off men later in life

Most women, if they're even somewhat logical and have decent parenting, are capable of achieving a regular, middle class marriage, which means they're able to produce outcomes without any advice. FDS fails to produce outcomes, therefore it's bad advice

Women in general give terrible dating advice to both other women and to men, that's why the opposite rule exists. First of all, being a "Pick Me" = being a "Marry Her, Bro"... meaning those are the exact women that men do pick. It's the stupidest insult on the internet, which is why the morons at FDS use it. Imagine if unsuccessful men saw some other man working out, being social, making money, getting women and said "he's only doing all that for female validation. He's a Pick-Me". Yeah sure, he's a Pick-Me and he's hittin and quittin a whole bunch of dudes' dream girls

The insult makes no sense regardless of gender. A traditional or redpill woman is gonna be a Pick-Me, married with kids and a house while a bunch of salty 30+ women talk smack about their social betters on FDS, get a text message from the one HVM who they know but won't commit, post super-excited about it on FDS, get ghosted, post about men being trash on FDS, repeat cycle until there's yet another internal implosion between frustrated FDS members who just want real results and die-hard staffers trying to monetize that even stupider podcast and merchandise...

Look, FDS is useless to women. But by all means, I encourage its mass adoption, because doing so would mass redpill / blackpill men as well. The more women that use it, the more men are suspicious of women and the quicker western society actually collapses and we can start rolling back, 4th, 3rd & 2nd wave feminism. This slow burn is just letting China pass us while we meander and stagnate. FDS is really just promoting the end of gender-based kindness from men to women, similar to the blackpills. Achieving the desired result is all that really matters

If FDSers think today's dating market is a shitshow, wait until men really get on their "treat women like other dudes, except we can fuck occasionally" shit, with no free meals, no helping you move, no lifting heavy objects, no changing your tire, no fixing your stuff, no lending you money. Not any of it. Chivalry is already half dead but there's still a bit of it around giving women privileges from men, and once that's gone it's gone for good

bananadude19 · 2021-11-27T05:33:27+00:00

FDS doesn’t allow me to have an opinion. It’s a forum for women only. Imagine that, building a community with only likeminds. How is it possible to grow and learn from each other if everyone has the same views?

They also refer to men as scrotes and all feel like they are deserving of a “high value male” without having to bring anything to the table because they are “the table.”

If a man ever wants to split the bill you will be labeled as cheap and your masculinity will be questioned.

dbz19 · 2021-11-27T06:07:00+00:00

Good things about FDS

filter men for a good candidate
be wary of men who just want to have sex with you
don’t have sex until you have a commitment or marriage
it’s okay to expect a man to pay on dates and pamper you
marriage is important and he should be willing to get married , it’s not just a formality

Bad things about FDS

telling women to snoop on his phone (worst one IMO)
saying virginity is just a social construct to oppress women and your past doesn’t matter
saying men who can’t handle your past are “insecure”
generally attacking men below your standard as being LVM or scrotes. It’s fine to have a standard but don’t use that kind of language, imagine if I started calling women below my standard as sluts and whores.
general anger and foul mood
not a shred of self-improvement advice
labelling women who do try to self-improve as “pick me’s”
dating stuff like ugly men should be outed and shamed
man-hatingness in general

Asopaso07 · 2021-11-27T09:55:40+00:00

Even in the most religious and so called conservative countries, women are prostituted and it’s perfectly legal. That’s because no matter what a man says he believes, deep down, they will always be against ideologies that protect women from men’s penises. Men hate FDS because it discourages casual sex and empty dating which only benefits men. They can’t stand female centric ideologies.

statsfodder · 2021-11-26T23:38:06+00:00

It is just TRP with a vagina and it deserves the same ire.

With both the "value yourself, respect yourself and improve yourself" message gets lost in bitterness and thinly veiled hate. Whether it is scrotes or plates both groups need an adult.

Chaos_and_Horny · 2021-11-26T22:40:12+00:00

fds is good. such as trp and other communities. but it happens that they are circlejerks holes too. i think women should persue the ideas fds portray

angels-fan · 2021-11-26T22:46:57+00:00

Do you speak out when you encounter blatant misandary?

DarkSp3ctre · 2021-11-26T23:43:02+00:00

Their general attitude towards men is pretty off putting and they expect the stars and the moon without any reciprocating. I want a partnership, not an entitled dependent.

Edit: to be clear I have the exact same issues with TRP only flipped

Rough_Collections · 2021-11-27T01:46:11+00:00

Imagine your buying a car. No matter what the dealership says short of lying you can't sell a rental for brand new model year prices. All these FDSs are marketing schemes telling you you can get exclusive limited edition pricing when you would be lucky to have someone take you off the lot. The women that typically use FDSs treated their bodies like the frat community car and now want to make the only man entertaining go through 9 credit checks. That's how men look at it. HVM look at a woman's pedigree. Her family is just as important to him as the woman because at some point he will probably have to assist or defend them. Some of your mothers have destroyed your pedigree because they had you out of wedlock. Once a women's pedigree is established HVM will look at her discipline (fitness) and Utility (social intelligence). So most of you have been knocked to a MoV at best because of your pedigree. So focus on get those men unless you want to deal with pookies & Ray Rays the rest of your life.

Edit: MoVs are simple high earning men who don't like games and are not prince charming. They give you an easy life so you give them an easy time.

ruboyuri · 2021-11-27T02:14:27+00:00

It’s not a good strategy for normal women

xcheshirecatxx · 2021-11-27T03:28:54+00:00

It's not all that is wrong

2)problematic if it's about looking down on women who do. I've been called a slut because I have sex early, as I can deal with just having sex, and I don't want to invest if there's no sexual compatibility

3) they call womem "pick me" when you defend men issues

4) it teaches not to invest to show you can be more than that, until there's commitment

5) the problem here is that it teaches that women are of more value than they are. So like if most men are below.

The rest is okay...but:

-men shouldn't be valued by their income. Being a gold digger is seen as fine

Relationships are advised as transactional, but think they are above sex workers

Money/gifts is way too important

-it's unequal as hell. Men aren't below women. Men don't deserve less than women. If they can propose, so does à woman. If they can court, so does a woman

-they just seem to hate sexuality in itself. They don't allow porn or bdsm, which is an individual choice

Finally, the behaviour of those I crossed path with is just agressive and intellectualy dishonest. They ask for sources and will never provide any. They start on personal attacks, even going to our profile to check what we say elsewhere.

The last one argued that mra and mgtow complain about child support and that men just don't go to court. When I explained what happens when they go and how the laws are unfair as they are written, which is what men complain about, she just became agressive and said it was out of subject. So not agreeing with her was out of subject....

Tldr: while fds has a few good advice, it puts women on a pedestal instead of equal to men, and only women who follow their rules. They are also way too materialistic They are also ah, when met on ppd

just_a_place · 2021-11-27T06:25:27+00:00

The teachings are not the issue. It's the propagation of that sardonic and jaded ass attitude towards all men.

Those teaching fall flat because the women there are just too jaded to implement them with a clear head. They are too sour against men so I wonder why the hell as they even there at all?

Also, those teachings do not make a woman more desirable for men. FDS is not a dating strategy it's an avoidance strategy. The whole place should be re-named FAM for Females Avoiding Men. That place does not teach women how to be more attractive or likable at all.

amongthemaniacs · 2021-11-27T08:40:30+00:00

1). Only want men who want you.

2.) No sex before commitment/no casual sex

7.) Vet men before you let them into your lives. Look up records to see if he is married, look up if he has a history of domestic violence, how he reacts to being told "no", etc.

All of that would be great if FDS was made up of mainly younger women in their teens and early 20s but it isn't. The majority of FDS women are older women who have a history of choosing bad men who've treated them poorly and now they're too emotionally damaged, jaded, bitter and angry to have a healthy relationship with a man. The manosphere has been warning men for years about getting involved with women like that because they're not wife material and they'd end up taking their issues with men out on you.

lingualistic · 2021-11-27T17:37:32+00:00

Nothing. Men don’t like to see women figuring out their game and refusing to play.

Coder-Cat · 2021-11-27T03:32:25+00:00

FDS changed my life. Also, PPD is a terrible place to ask this kind of question, most people who subscribe to this sub also subscribe to subs like TRP and MGTOW.

trueorfalsedmitry · 2021-11-26T22:58:43+00:00

I love FDS! It provides the perfect arena for men to see (read) the real, id-based internal monologue of women with respect to men. These "teachings" provide the perfect springboard for women to spew all truth behind all the lies they posture with everyday.

May FDS continue unabated!

yo_dwayne · 2021-11-26T23:34:40+00:00

High value is about looks and money and how the man treats you, with looks and money being the most important. FDS makes average women expect top notch everything. FDS preaches women to drop and ghost men for very silly reasons but get mad when guys do it to them. FDS says women should go after preference but ridicule men for having a type and voicing that.

My MAIN problem with FDS is they leave it purely up to the men to prove meanwhile 3/4 of the women are there are overweight and need much attitude improvement. FDS doesn’t tell women what they should be doing besides vetting men and dropping them for BS. FDS also removes accountability from women. FDS has some backwards ass views, like men should pay and treat and buy but women should work and just be able to save their money. So basically men are providers and protectors and women must be put on a shrine and be taken care of. FDS expects to have women be treated well and like a wife during the courting phase but give a man no special treatment until after marriage

FDS has some things that I agree with but I can go on for days about how it’s just another echo chamber for a seriously regressive mindset

yo_dwayne · 2021-11-26T23:37:37+00:00

FDS also has this serious hate and almost preoccupation with porn. They blame a lot on porn and repeatedly bring it up. It’s funny actually lol. Everything is because of porn and referenced to porn

Wait wait wait, I read something the other day that was preaching that women should dictate to their male partners when they are “allowed” to climax 😂😂. I shit you know this got many upvotes. Like some serious BDSM shit, telling your partner they’re not allowed to cum until you say so. Lol my gosh a lot of those women are in for very rude awakenings

ohdiddly · 2021-11-26T23:51:02+00:00

As I woman and a sex worker, I could never get on board with FDS. They have an extreme disdain for any kind of sex work. They’re just overall very puritanical and sex negative to the point where I would just call them conservatives.

Some of the points they make are okay, but most are just so extreme that I think it’s doing more harm than good.

Devourer_of_felines · 2021-11-26T23:54:35+00:00

Courtesy of u/DjangoUBlackBastard:

Here's the 5 traits of an HVM from FDS' lead dating coach given a few months ago:

A HVM male makes no less than six figures per year and dedicates no less than 40% of his post-tax income towards financing your life.
A HVM is there to serve and caretake for his queen.
HVM is at least 1-3 points better looking than his female. He is at least 6’ and works out a minimum of 3x a week. Men who are under a 8/10 are considered a LVM (low value male) with poor genes.
A HVM commits without any expectation from his woman. He understands any benefit he derives from the relationship is at her discretion and hers only.
HVM will NOT watch porn or fantasize about other women, this is especially true with masturbation. Men who use their 'imagination' about other women while masturbating are LVM.

Bonus: Sex is a REWARD for the male and should be treated as such by both the male and the female.

yo_dwayne · 2021-11-26T23:33:49+00:00

High value is about looks and money and how the man treats you, with looks and money being the most important. FDS makes average women expect top notch everything. FDS preaches women to drop and ghost men for very silly reasons but get mad when guys do it to them. FDS says women should go after preference but ridicule men for having a type and voicing that.

My MAIN problem with FDS is they leave it purely up to the men to prove meanwhile 3/4 of the women are there are overweight and need much attitude improvement. FDS doesn’t tell women what they should be doing besides vetting men and dropping them for BS. FDS also removes accountability from women. FDS has some backwards ass views, like men should pay and treat and buy but women should work and just be able to save their money. So basically men are providers and protectors and women must be put on a shrine and be taken care of. FDS expects to have women be treated well and like a wife during the courting phase but give a man no special treatment until after marriage

FDS has some things that I agree with but I can go on for days about how it’s just another echo chamber for a seriously regressive mindset

Your_Couzen · 2021-11-26T23:50:04+00:00

What’s bad about it is that there are more women than there are men. All men in the world can pair up with a woman and there still be left overs.

So not giving a man what he wants he’s just going to find it somewhere else. Thus making it much harder to secure a man. Because why should a man chose someone who neglects him if he can find someone else who does Moment he finds somebody who will he will dump you or cheat on you. Which is why and what they all have in common. They share negative experiences with men and most on there have become misandrist.

The only advice they have that’s proper is the vetting. Everyone should be vetting both men and women.

mackenzie013_02 · 2021-11-27T00:11:04+00:00

Well, first of all, FDS cannot be criticized nor questioned and that’s my main problem. They believe all women want the same thing and most of the time good chunks of what describes a HVM isn’t of value to me.

On the list of teachings: 2 and 4 are problematic to me. I don’t want marriage and I prefer to to commit before we had sex.

nemporisso · 2021-11-27T00:21:08+00:00

There's a way to understand self respect without referring to other people in such depraved terms. That shit sinks in first.

deste_eloise · 2021-11-27T00:21:17+00:00

FDS mostly appeals to those who have been burnt a lot in the past (and golddiggers).

NoMarriageNoKids · 2021-11-27T00:34:47+00:00

FDS teaches women to exploit men. That about sums it up.

Satan_and_Communism · 2021-11-27T03:00:23+00:00

Did you come here to have your question answered or to argue? Because it sure seems like the second option.

pfizerface · 2021-11-27T03:49:43+00:00

FDS is a joke. A group of miserable Misandrists.

"I am entitled to the millionaire model, that will abide by all these rules, check all these boxes, and serve me. Anyone below that is a worthless loser" . .

"Yet I myself look like a trout, and have the personality of a pancake"

Then post a bunch of threads ridiculing men and everyone repeating their YES QUEEN anecdotes.

SleepingBoomer · 2021-11-27T05:07:59+00:00

I don't deal with them personally because I find them toxic; but I'd imagine it has the same basic benefits/teachings as redpill for Men.

The problem isn't the self improvement or learning how to "not be manipulated/finessed"; it's where you get locked into an echo chamber and then radicalized (and lots of folks never see it coming).

Not just a Gender thing either; this happens in all sorts of groups/forums/philosophies/movements that preach to know "something that society at large doesn't".

What is so bad about Female Dating Strategy's teachings?

Comments

FAQ

200K members, 2 marriages as "successes", biggest overlap is DatingOverThirty

8.4: Women cannot obtain permanent satisfaction from pleasure. Instead, they must find fulfillment. Typically, interpersonal connections are what fulfills women. This used to be families but modern lonely women will substitute in friends, pets or fatherless children

"Yet I myself look like a trout, and have the personality of a pancake"

Title	What is so bad about Female Dating Strategy's teachings?
Author	Ugandabekiddingme2
Upvotes	91
Comments	488
Date	November 26, 2021 10:36 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/r2yln3/what_is_so_bad_about_female_dating_strategys/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-so-bad-about-female-dating-strategys.1086383 https://theredarchive.com/post/1086383