"Just work on yourself, bro" is a polite way of gaslighting men

chancetolive · 2023-01-15T10:37:58+00:00

They don't care about you.

onizuka822 · 2023-01-14T18:09:34+00:00

fucking spot on buddy.

Leather-Creme2611 · 2023-01-14T17:16:42+00:00

As if intimate companionship can be replaced with a "career" or collecting funko pops?

I've always thought like that,

"How folks gonna tell those dudes 'just work a job and buy toys'? Do they think guys who struggle to find GF have lower-functioning brains or something, and that that alone would actually be satisfying?"

gymbro718nyc2 · 2023-01-14T12:50:12+00:00

There are a few things going on here. The most common scenario is that the majority of people don't really understanding dating and therefore their advice is crap. So they repeat meaningless platitudes that help no one.

But as with everything, even in this poorly thought out advice, there are kernels of truth. For example, if you keep telling yourself you need love and sex to be happy, you will always come across as needy and desperate. And needy and desperate people get rejected because they are too easy and unappealing.

It's not that you can't enjoy love and sex or shouldn't want them, but when you give yourself the message that UNLESS you have them you will be UNHAPPY, that's when you get in trouble.

Let's take focusing on your career and hobbies. You interpret that as "work hard and earn money so one day some plain Jane will find you desirable because you are a good provider". My interpretation of this is "have a purpose and life outside of women. Have adventures in your life that don't center around women and certainly don't make THEM your adventure".

Every man who has a purpose and a life is more appealing and attractive to women. Our ancestors were tribal. Women hung out with the hunters and warriors and that's who they bred with. With the guys who were out there doing shit and not with the guys lamenting their lack of dating choices who sat in the cave drawing boobs on the wall and playing wjth sticks and stones.

The last line about the right one coming along also has a kernel of truth. Why is that when you are relentlessly chasing women, they always avoid you. But when you finally stop chasing them and just live your life, women suddenly FIND YOU! It goes back to the fact that as a man you should not be chasing. You should be chased. And the people who get chased are the ones who need less. Again you interpret this piece of advice as "Don't do anything, just sit at home and jerk off and a naked woman will magically materialize in your room".

I take this advice as "I will enjoy my life, have fun, get to know people BUT I will not chase after women and let women chase me. This doesn't mean I won't socialize or put myself in situations where I meet women, but my attitude will be more of I am giving them the opportunity to meet me as opposed to me trying to get them interested in me".

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2023-01-14T14:05:21+00:00

It's additional insult to injury when you realize that women have to do none of this to get a partner.

mugdul · 2023-01-14T13:06:17+00:00

Oh, 'work on yourself bro' and 'focus on your career and hobbies'? How original. Because clearly, a fulfilling career and hobbies are just the same as intimate companionship, right? And let's just ignore the fact that this advice is often directed at men who are deemed 'undesirable' by society's standards. Oh, but don't worry, if you spend your 20s and 30s 'working on yourself' and 'grinding,' the right one will come along...when you're 40 and alone. But hey, at least you won't be 'bothering' those precious women anymore.

Old-Information-5233 · 2023-01-14T12:43:41+00:00

It means if you cant get a woman there is something seriously wrong with you so you need to find out what and improve it, just in a nicer way.

OutOfOranges · 2023-01-14T13:37:06+00:00

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Lysa_Bell · 2023-01-14T12:41:13+00:00

So either we get "work on yourself" in a way to tell men to go away and not even bother women, or we get it in the "looksmax until you can pull young hot girls". The advice is the same. The projection of the outcome varies based on who gives that advice. Manosphere tells men to improve and that is good. But people outside of that area tell men to improve and it's "lying and oppression and filtering out men that are deemed unworthy". But in the same moment we also have people complaining "just be yourself" is also terrible advice.

Idk. It sounds a lot like people complain about any advice they are getting and don't even want to look at themselves. So maybe the advice should be "accept what you have". But then people are also unhappy.

The common situation is that people want to be unhappy and miserable. No matter the advice. They focus on the miserable. So it doesn't matter who or what advice you give. Everyone needs to figure out their own shit.

2023-01-14T13:46:54+00:00

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KikiYuyu · 2023-01-14T19:51:16+00:00

If you decide that only one thing will make you happy and give your life worth, you are making a dangerous gamble.

You are literally deriding and mocking the intelligent and mature thing to do: prepare for not getting that one thing. Have backup plans. Find other things that give you joy.

Every human being on earth should work on themselves.

Latter-Impression-26 · 2023-01-14T20:01:56+00:00

Yeah I have pointed this out a lot I am glad it is being brought up. This is literally PURE gaslighting argument. Convincing men that they are mentally unstable and that's what is causing their issues when that may or may not be the case is literally the definition of gaslighting lmfao.

SpiritualBlob · 2023-01-15T00:24:33+00:00

Also: women never receive this advice. When a female friend and I were just coming from a break up we could cope in different ways:

She could have sex 24/7.
I would have been told I was a fucking loser.

Guess who of us got a self-esteem boost and who just got a kick to the gutter?

PCPToad83 · 2023-01-15T03:01:22+00:00

You see this also with people defending mass porn as the only thing keeping all incels from going on shooting sprees or something, very good post

EvaViaMusic · 2023-01-18T23:49:01+00:00

Ignoring good, actionable advice because you're too insecure and immature to actually, you know, self-improve and do better at the things you're not doing well at, is why you are single.

Women like men who feel agency and accountability, not boys who feel like helpless victims of the world and people around them.

This is great advice. Try to take it instead of having a meltdown and calling me names.

Hosj_Karp · 2023-01-23T11:14:18+00:00

No one wants to confront the brutal unfairness of life in any arena

thisreallyisnotok · 2023-02-03T23:46:08+00:00

Having lots of hobbies is a symptom of loneliness not a solution.

liefelijk · 2023-01-14T12:36:06+00:00

What’s the alternative? What would you prefer people tell unattractive men?

If they aren’t having success with women (or at least not having success with the type of woman they want), then they should work on themselves to improve their chances.

Oli_love90 · 2023-01-14T18:19:24+00:00

I’ve heard all of these as a perpetually single woman. I think people who can easily find relationships or still have hope they’ll get find someone literally don’t understand how these statements make people feel and how demoralizing it feels when no amount of “self improvement” (that they didn’t even have to do) works. I don’t think it’s gaslighting, it’s pure fairy tale ignorance.

SoldierExcelsior · 2023-01-15T00:56:38+00:00

By 40 you won't care about a relationship your testosterone is decreasing and you should be busy with life.Yiu should have money hobbies a stable career you may even be retired and starting something new.

I'm retired back in school running multiple business working on projects I don't have the time or interest to date...I've all ready been everywhere worth going every restaurant, multiple countries,cruises,The Bahamas ,Paris,Monaco,Egypt,I'm even planning to do a Mt Everest summit...it can't be that hard a 12 year old boy and women have done it.

Now I just want to relax watch a non woke TV show play some video games,drink some wine,watch my goals come into fruition and my bank account increase.

When I need a women which isn't often I have a multitude of options for an hour or a night.

Love u wanna see me?

U can come baby

How long you wanna see me for?

These women stay txting I can't keep up..

I look at these miserable married and commited men bound by a womans fickle whims and I would never want that life.

Marriage is dead relationships are dead most men will have to experience abject defeat and be brought to the brink of destruction before they understand this but hopefully you can pull yourself back up..

avarciousRutabega99 · 2023-01-14T13:41:50+00:00

Bro I’m a hard 6.5 maybe a 7/10 (according to people on PPD and IRL) and people still give those responses. Its because you’re asking for help man, it doesn’t mean you’re unattractive or that they’re trying to politely tell you to stop trying, come on now .

The only reason I myself even ask for advice is because my dumbass always tries to get with 7’s and 8’s not because I cant get other 6’s.

ratsareniceanimals · 2023-01-14T14:15:37+00:00

You're a Nissan Sentra. You're fine for people who aren't picky, but most people are picky, so you're not exciting anyone, and you're not getting exciting drivers.

Add a nice career and self-care, maybe you're an Altima or a Maxima now. But the instagram girls you see only want ferraris and bugattis. Then you realize those girls only want sports cars, and you're only a sedan.

Becoming a sports car is no joke, but if you put in the time and hit on a lucrative career, you can move from Nissan to BMW, a select few will even become Ferraris. At this point, it's a different level or driver that is interested in you.

But at the end of the day, different drivers want different things. People in the market for pickup trucks will never consider you. You've probably never even noticed a girl who's interested in Subarus. We don't get to pick what car we start as, but we have some options to upgrade. Most of us will never be sports cars.

Nothing in life is guaranteed, the best you can do is improve your odds.

ZealousidealAd7191 · 2023-01-14T17:44:49+00:00

“Work on yourself bro” is not advocating for replacing a desire for intimate companionship with hobbies and a career. Its an acknowledgment that WANTING something doesn’t necessarily get you closer to it. In terms of relationships the desperate WANTING, actually gets you farther away from it.

The “work on yourself bro” recommendation is actually the last part of a sentence thats starts with: “In order to have a shot at getting what you want in the future you have to give up the desperate desire for it in the present and be willing to commit to becoming the best version of yourself that will attract what you are looking for. In order to do that you need to be willing to….” “Work on yourself bro”

And i KNOW you’re not listening because no one advocates for men getting married in their 20s. Most RP guys agree that a man’s prime in terms or marriage readiness is after 30 years old

megamorphg · 2023-01-14T15:00:09+00:00

Sexual dynamics has never been the same for men as women in all of history and all species. Key facts to think about:

On average, only 30% of men reproduced before modern monogamy became more enforced in order to reduce this natural issue
Women are biologically designed for sex with multiple men
Attraction often works contrary to what is normally considered "good" and "nice" aka maniuplative

AcanthocephalaNew947 · 2023-01-14T13:36:55+00:00

What you quoted was a 40 year old who is by and large unsuccessful yet demands a 25 year old hottie, my God what would be good advise to give him.

As for the rest. You know what, maybe we do need to stop being politically correct. Me personally I tend to be blunt with my advise and let me tell you, it’s not well received.

Truthfully cold approaching is the least successful type of dating strategy for those already struggling, I don’t know why y’all do it and then get mad it doesn’t work, it’s hard for successful men to cold approach, logic says it’s gonna be damn near impossible the further down the line ya get!

Y’all pose questions that don’t have a perfect answer and get mad at it. Do y’all want to be told “damn, you’re fucked” of course not so quit acting like that’s the advise that’s wanted

januaryphilosopher · 2023-01-14T13:49:26+00:00

What are you doing to try to find a partner if it's incompatible with working on yourself? Mass-messaging millions of women to ask them out every day so you can't have other hobbies? Or just sitting around focusing on and complaining about the fact that you're single? You know that working on yourself and having anything interesting about you helps people to actually want to be with you, right?

James_Cruse · 2023-01-14T13:59:29+00:00

First of all, none of the things you “worked on” mean much to women if you haven’t actually approached quantities of women. Otherwise this just sounds like whinging.

How many women have you actually approached in the past 12 months?

toasterchild · 2023-01-14T14:10:52+00:00

Why do people think random advice is supposed to save them? No it's not a conspiracy to hold you down if advice you get from randos doesn't work for you. If random internet advice fixed everything therapists and psychiatrists wouldn't exist.

THHBHStT · 2023-01-14T14:30:01+00:00

We don’t know you, we can’t give you specific advice brother

Green-Quantity1032 · 2023-01-14T14:39:25+00:00

The first one, "work on yourself", is legit.

If you're a scrawny, unkempt fuck with no career prospects - then yes - good luck, work on yourself.

The others are indeed copes people offer to ones they don't think they can help but still want to seem helpful.

Work on yourself, and stop treating people's "bothering women" stance as if it's legit.

Bother anyone you like to bother, the ones who are attracted to you won't see it as a bother but as an opportunity.

I've been told to stop talking to a woman because I'm "bothering" them.

I've also been told to take her home so we can fuck.

The second situation is worth the bad experience of the first.

But no one will tell you to take her home if you don't first work on yourself bro.

jingle_ofadogscollar · 2023-01-14T13:35:05+00:00

Disagree with OP

Take any male struggling with dating. Have that person get jacked fitness wise, not just "above average" but jacked in terms of muscle and body fat %

and

make a serious effort to upgrade your style

and

you legitimately put yourself out there doing hobbies you really like

I 100% guarantee you, you will have very little problems dating, yes... even the ASD OP and so many others on this board.

enbaelien · 2023-01-14T15:34:23+00:00

"working on yourself" isn't only about physical appearances...

HinduProphet · 2023-01-14T22:06:06+00:00

If you believe that the system is rigged them try to change the system, simple as possible.

I would advise you to learn more about other societies and cultures, how they work, their social norms and social structures, etc, also try visiting them if you can.

immalayhandsonya · 2023-01-15T08:21:42+00:00

IMO it all comes down to the argument that there is a special something some men have, and some men don't.

And that is absolutely truth.

But what that special something is. Now that is the mystery.

meteorness123 · 2023-01-15T09:26:12+00:00

the advice is given because it's true for most people. If you socialize regularly and work on your shit, you will encounter women naturally. Given that most people who don't have this happen to them are in fields where there are no women (engineers, etc) and who tend to be more awkward men in general, of course you will think that the advice is useless.

Meaning : For regular dudes, the advice is legit.

For engineers, etc : it is not so legit.

alphasupremacy5555 · 2023-01-14T14:43:43+00:00

You don't get it. For men who has no success with women especially the women they want working on themselves is the best thing for them to do. That all they If a guy wakes up at 40 single and experienced he obviously didn't improve on himself and work on himself at all.

You work on your body and your overall looks so that you can practice flirting seduction and game all the while working on your finances.

The point is to work on yourself with increasing intensity to the point where you create and raise your smv get to a higher station in life and make yourself extremely attractive to the women you find extremely attractive.

Men who can't attract hot women most definitely and absolutely has to put in the work and focus on their purpose which is becoming the best versions of themselves.

trele_morele · 2023-01-14T16:42:48+00:00

Yes and no. Working on yourself, specifically having goals and other shit going on is never a bad thing. It just doesn’t mean shit when it comes from other people. And it doesn’t mean shit if you’re just doing it for validation.

deadBeefCafe2014 · 2023-01-14T19:17:31+00:00

I disagree with the notion that this is gaslighting.

I do think it is an overall dismissive trope which fails to give any sort of actionable advice. Each man is different, and the truth is often hard to hear, as there are very few spaces now that are truly for men.

It depends on the man’s purpose, which each of us needs to find. Work should serve the purpose.

TheSpagheeter · 2023-01-15T00:41:38+00:00

No you’re misinterpreting it. If you get hobbies, make friends, take opportunities, get more fit and become a better person you will do better in a relationship and find it easier to talk to people because you’ll be more of an interesting person. Becoming more of who you are isn’t necessarily “collecting funko pops”. Most people meet their life partners through their careers and hobbies anyways.

my_alt_has_alts · 2023-01-14T14:22:35+00:00

Complaining about an advice that doesn't work for you is like complaining to the horoscope because the description of Sagittarius doesn't match your personality

nemma88 · 2023-01-14T14:21:27+00:00

It's generalized advice that improves chances of getting what they want or living a happier life.

What would you suppose better advice is?

daisydaisydaisy12 · 2023-01-14T14:39:00+00:00

So please tell us what advice you would give. Please be specific.

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Kaminaxgurren · 2023-01-14T17:39:00+00:00

I entirely get where you are coming from, and yeah, the people who just repeat the same, tired platitudes get really irritating. However, I disagree quite a bit with your conclusion. Like many other commenters are pointing out, it's totally unhealthy to base your life and self worth entirely around women. In my opinion, the advice of "work on yourself", at least when it comes from someone with a brain instead of an NPC parrot, means to focus less on attracting women, an endeavor that for the majority of men ends in nothing but suffering, and more on literally everything else that life has to offer.

You have to sit down and ask yourself sometime if spending all this time and energy worrying about women is really worth it, and I can almost guarantee that it isn't. Would you rather throw yourself endlessly against a brick wall until you break down, or go do something where you actually stand to succeed and gain anything?

anon-sucks · 2023-01-14T18:47:32+00:00

I’d use the word patronizing not gaslighting, but they are close contenders.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-01-14T19:59:06+00:00

I ask this in the nicest way possible - what is your suggestion? What advice should be offered to guys who struggle with dating? Yes, there are guys out there who are ugly, short, autistic, super fat/super skinny, they smell bad, they don't like socializing, and they don't have any interest in hobbies that may involve other people, so they just refuse to socialize and try out new hobbies. There really isn't anything that will help these people, but they're also a very small group of people.

What advice do you think would be good for your average guy? Because everyone should work on themselves and try to be a better version of themselves. Not to get dates, but because you do end up feeling better about yourself. That may improve your chances to find someone, it may not. So I'm willing to hear what you'd tell these young guys who are struggling to better their situation.

As for not bothering women: depends on what you mean by bother. If you're at a club or a party, approaching people is perfectly fine. If they're on the bus or at the store just going about their day, that's a bit tricky. If you're polite about it and acknowledge that you're interrupting the person, you'd be perceived in a much better light. You will still most likely be rejected, but at least you won't be talked about as ''that creep in the dairy aisle''.

neetykeeno · 2023-01-14T22:23:28+00:00

You game a lot? Because that's a very gamer-y point of view, that strategic advice is usually intended as a cheat or short cut that means you get to skip a lot of the other normal grind. That's simply not the case for most real world strategic advice. Working on yourself isn't a cheat code. It's a way of systematically improving your odds in all the other stuff you still need to keep doing.

FlyV89 · 2023-01-15T01:10:10+00:00

Just came here to vent because I'm still high from last night.

I went out with a girl and I got approached by 9 gay dudes (and two others actually tried a soft approach) and I only spent an hour on that gay bar.

Like, the first approach happened after give minutes I took seat at a table, dude was like "ffffshhhhh" stright to "hey handsome how are you doing? Can I sit with you for a while?" and I was like "daaamn motherfucker you smell good, yeah take a sit and gimme some flowers" and he was laughing his ass off. Awesome bro.

I'm telling you dude, if you want to feel loved and appreciated and want some ego boost, go to a gay bar. These dudes are awesome I swear, they even bought me drinks! And I wasn't even trying to hide my heterosexuality, how cool is that hahaha.

I'm pretty sure there isn't something wrong with you it's just that girls these days are somewhat fucked up in the head.

So go to a gay bar for some love and fun.

First time ever I swear! But damn those guys are charming and they know how to talk.

Willing_Air_1912 · 2023-01-15T04:39:08+00:00

Ellen Degeneres told women that the perfect man is gonna walk into their life and that a woman need not do anything but just sit there. And that's what they do.Why would you want a woman anyway and risk getting your house and kids taken from you. Or getting convicted of spousal rape with nothing more than an accusation. It's a woman's world now. The majority of consumers are women. It's wise to avoid them.

Nihi1986 · 2023-01-15T05:09:39+00:00

It's certainly a way of gaslighting them, but it's also your only potential chance (though 'luck' plays a role too).

If a below average man wants a relationship, he can only try harder or not try particularly hard and hope he's lucky and meets the right girl at the right time (for her).

Now, if this a waste of time and energy? Time would tell you, it might work and might not work. On distractions, what else could you do? If you can't have something then you try to not obsses with that.

It obviously is gaslighting but technically it's right. There are still many tabus in our society, things that people aren't comfortable talking about... It's like listening to a man who is feeling suicidal, with a ruined life, ruined health, in debt... Technically he can get out of that hell, he might get better or he might accept it and look at whatever bright side there is and enjoy the little things...what would you tell him? That there's hope, technically there is.

What do you tell an ugly and unsuccesful guy? That there's hope, technically there is. There's no other polite answer, we can't blame people for being at least minimally kind and polite.

If you think you have literally no chance at a relationship with a woman who you find attractive (or simply a woman...), You don't want to know how you would feel years later after not trying...at least you could tell yourself you've tried and be in peace with yourself. That's a good enough reason to not give up too soon.

Individual_Fudge6266 · 2023-01-15T05:24:25+00:00

I interpret work on yourself to mean improve your social skills. Looks matter only so much unless you're a woman and even then it ain't getting you a relationship. For most single people it's not finances and looks that has them single. It's almost always personality in combo with level of friendliness and overall people skills like conversational skills to name one. To me it's only gaslighting when the work on yourself advice is hit the gym and make more money. If only it was a looks and money issue and that easy.

seeyouonthelanai · 2023-01-15T09:04:54+00:00

"work on yourself bro"

Why shouldn't people work on themselves? Not just physically, but mentally. Getting in shape makes you feel more confident. Working on any trauma you may have and growing as a person helps you live a more fulfilling life.

"relationships aren't everything"

Relationships are nice. The feeling that you have someone is great. However, being with the wrong person can destroy your life. When you're so desperate to have someone, you run the risk the risk of ending up with an absolute psycho. Then, you'll wish you'd just stayed single. I know it's hard to see other people in relationships, but not all that glitters is gold.

"focus on your career and hobbies"

Yes. When your single and don't have kids, you can focus on yourself. You can switch careers, put in extra hours on a passion project, and go try different hobbies. Take this time to be super selfish and make sure you like what your doing. You can still do these things in a relationship, but once you settle down... it gets harder.

"the right one will come along some day"

This is true. You meet people in the most random of timing and of ways. You do have to be proactive and put yourself into social situations to meet women. But finding that person you click with is also chance.

I do realize that there are men who are douches and still manage to find girlfriends. Well, there are cheating, golddiggers who manage to find quality guys. You don't want the kind of women who go after douches, just like I don't want the guys who like shallow women.

despisedlove2 · 2023-01-15T15:03:52+00:00

Why do you think that women owe any stranger anything?

It goes both ways.

meddit-throwaway · 2023-01-15T23:30:27+00:00

Nah, what you focus on is what you get good at, and getting women is no different. IME what worked was putting everything into it. Working on posture, dress sense, vocal tone, developing better conversation skills, eye contact, being more dominant, hitting the gym...

Without those things no woman was going to magically come to me. Focusing on your career and hobbies is NOT going to get you laid. Go out and approach 50 girls a day.

2023-01-16T00:13:36+00:00

Its still good advice to work on yourself as in improve your character. Good men have higher chance of meeting good women and starting a successful long term relationship.

pua_apprentice · 2023-01-17T19:00:39+00:00

So the clarification around the "work on yourself" advice is that it includes working on your social skills, grooming, hygiene, and social skills. You still should talk to women and date around during your 20s but if a guy is broke, has poor social skills, poor hygiene, and no sense of style, all of these factors will hurt his results, making it hard for him to have dating success or even get dates in the first place.

In my late teens and probably up until I was 21 I didn't have great social skills, style, or confidence. To make matters worse, I still lived with my parents. These factors significantly affected my ability to find dating success. However, I started going out more, improving my style, going to the gym, and learning game. I also worked hard and had a six-figure job at 23. In two years I was a different person and some of my friends were amazed at the transformation, which carried over to my dating life. Now at 25, I am still working on myself but my dating life is much better than it was at 21.

My point is if you are not getting any results, taking personal responsibility for your lack of results and doing what you can to improve yourself is the best course of action. I don't advocate just grinding away at a career and ignoring girls. What I am suggesting is broader self-improvement that includes building a social circle and learning game/approaching girls.

Few_Wallaby_4338 · 2023-01-22T02:49:09+00:00

I don't think this is a problem of they fragile female self. I think this is a male problem about how badly males treat and validate each other

derbengirl · 2023-01-24T12:34:34+00:00

It means, go hire a hooker and leave me alone

DarthMemus · 2023-01-25T18:02:30+00:00

it doesn't take 20 years to better yourself. in one year you can get tremendous amounts of work done. hit the gym

Dog_with_a_vlog · 2023-01-28T13:51:11+00:00

You should want to better yourself though, regardless of whether it gets you sex or not. When you do it just to "get girls", you might end up being disappointed. However when you do it for yourself, any girl that comes along is just a bonus. Shift your perspective my dudes

ProfessorFelix0812 · 2023-01-14T14:26:43+00:00

The term “gaslighting” is waaaaaaaay overused nowadays…

pearllovespink · 2023-01-14T15:09:49+00:00

Disagree. Women get told the same thing.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2023-01-14T15:09:56+00:00

This reminds me of the incel that posts here sometimes asking how to get a girlfriend. He also notes that he’s a middle school dropout who’s never had a job and who lives at home.

Everyone tells him to start by getting out of the house and getting some kind of job to build confidence and grow up and then he complains that that has nothing to do with finding a relationship 🤦‍♀️

You have to start somewhere. If your foundation isn’t good you’ll fail at every subsequent level.

idkmanthisusersucks · 2023-01-14T15:16:15+00:00

what is gaslighting??

IamHere-4U · 2023-01-14T15:32:20+00:00

"relationships aren't everything"

How does this constitute gaslighting? It's true... relationships aren't everything. I think men and women alike should try to grasp this.

KayRay1994 · 2023-01-14T15:36:34+00:00

i think most of this is good advice and not gaslighting at all. Generally speaking, the majority of people don’t end up alone, and while such anxieties are normal, turning down good advice, pouting and giving up cause you’re later down the line ain’t gonna help. Work on yourself, learn how to be happy and try to be the best version of yourself. I guarantee that most people who do this and get mad at failing want instant results and aren’t working deep enough on themselves to see meaningful, intrinsic results. Fact is, some people naturally have it better than others, and others don’t. This ain’t fair, but its life. Sometimes people have to do more work than others and some people have to learn how to be happy themselves first.

Improve your own mental, physical and emotional health - find hobbies that are within your niche but that also have a mixed gender ratio - but more importantly, learn how to be happy on your own as well.

Don’t expect the changes to be exponential, expect them to be slow and gradual, expect it to take years, and don’t expect the results to be easy.

Safinated · 2023-01-14T15:45:30+00:00

Is it easier to change one person or the world?

If the former, it’s not gaslighting. What do you think?

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-01-14T16:28:50+00:00

Sure it might be cliche, but what else is there to say really? “Don’t make any changes, just keeping doing what hasn’t worked for you and wallow in self-pity”? If no one wants to date you, your only options are a) work on yourself to increase your chances, or b) give up. People don’t tell you to improve yourself in order to get you to “stop bothering women,” but to increase your chances of success and overall improve your mental health.

And as a woman I can tell you “Just focus on yourself for now” is probably the #1 advice given to women if we express any frustration with dating too. It’s cliche but well-intentioned. Advice you don’t find helpful isn’t “gaslighting.”

Emotional-Simple-478 · 2023-01-14T16:40:29+00:00

That first sentence described a shit load of dudes 🤣

New_Relative_8709 · 2023-01-14T16:40:44+00:00

Yes, thats the point.

If a guy is so undesirable that he can’t find a woman even after self improving to the maximum, then he is not worthy of having a relationship and being intimate with someone, so we just try pointing them in a better direction in life then just annoying normal people bcs they can’t get laid

Go more to the gym, better yourself in a hobby, travel, idk

Usual-Leopard-9102 · 2023-01-14T16:51:42+00:00

Reductio at Absurdum

You need to do sports. "so i need to make 20 year long sport before im allowed to talk to women."

You need hobbys. "so i should take a lone and get 100k in Gunpla".

The right one will come along someday. "so the perfect 10/10 modell with perfect behaviour will just sit on my lap when im at the bar".

No one is talking about 10/20 year long improvment phases.

LoongWang · 2023-01-14T17:38:40+00:00

That's not it. If you want to attract people, you need to be interesting. If you have nothing interesting going on, why would they want to be with you?

When you work on yourself to be more interesting, you can attract more women. When you have interesting hobbies and/or career, you can attract more women.

Nobody is telling you that you have to do it 1 step at a time. So it's not improving yourself then you hit on women, but it's improving yourself while you hit on women. When you hit on women, you learn social skills, the more women you hit on, the better you'll be at hitting on women.

That's the actual meaning of it. But then again, since nowadays modern women are vapid, narcissistic with social skills of an autist & emotional maturity of 12 year old girl, hitting on them won't be pleasurable experience like back then in the past. Today's women don't know how to flirt anymore. And when they try to impress you, they tell you their jobs, basically they function like beta males.

Early-Christmas-4742 · 2023-01-14T18:20:41+00:00

So what would be better advice? Going to have to either work on yourself or compketely give up.

gate18 · 2023-01-14T22:32:40+00:00

This advice at least when shared on reddit aims at removing "undesirables" with extreme middle-class politeness, to stir them away from ever bothering women again, a new moral panic reminiscent of the narcissistic times we live in, where the fragile female self cannot stand even being "bothered" by men perceived as beneath them.

!!

Many humans, unfortunately, don't want to be bothered by people they perceive as being beneath them.

We love these people, we cry for them - e.g. the royal family. So stop pretending it's just a female thing

Men are hurting!

They think it's because of women, but it isn't.

So for men that are hurting "Just work on yourself, bro" is a great advice.

Those men that aren't hurting shouldn't even ask for online help! You already know generic help is bullshit.

People, men also, should go to therapy, and pamper themselves - because we don't live in a mythological world where taking care of yourself gets you killed. And see relationships as 1. a two way street and 2. not the end all and be all. Hence, if a relationship isn't coming, take care of youself

TSquaredRecovers · 2023-01-14T23:19:31+00:00

This is a friendly reminder once again that nobody is entitled to another person. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what reason a woman gives you (universal "you") for rejecting you. This is something that each person needs to work through on their own. Stop blaming women for your being single. Life isn't fair sometimes. I'm a woman who is happily married but has endured one traumatic event after another during my adult lifetime--some that were of my own doing, and some in which I was a victim or simply drew the unlucky card in terms of health. Do I wish that everything in my life was going well? Yeah, of course. But sometimes it doesn't happen like that. Being single is not a reason to claim victimhood, so let's stop with this nonsense.

magiksissclit · 2023-01-14T23:20:22+00:00

It's not gaslighting just because it's something you don't wish to face. Imagine suggesting that personal investment is an optional factor in seeing your life unfold in a manner meaningful and personally gratifying to you. Maybe you're just gaslighting yourself?

hairhelprequest · 2023-01-14T16:20:48+00:00

You should be working on yourself as a man but also you should be going out trying to get experience at the same time that way you aren't a jacked and rich kissless virgin at 30. Yeah women don't have to do that but life isn't fair and men don't have innate value ( talking about in dating market), whereas women do. A man must become wheras a woman just needs to preserve her value.

m0rbidowl · 2023-01-14T16:31:06+00:00

Why is it bad advice to suggest someone does some self-reflection and figure out things in their life that they can work on? Doing so will greatly increase your chances of finding a partner.

The truth is, if someone has struggled their whole lives in the relationship department, there's probably a good reason and it's worth trying to work past it to try to overcome it.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-01-14T19:02:59+00:00

Some of the people who are advised to do this ARE unkempt, smelly, unhygenic.

Some are hygenic and well groomed but so obsessed with dating that their friends tell them to work on themselves to give their mind a break from the obsession/try to give them some space with another interest if they are being pathologically addicted to trying to get a date, or just destroying their mental health by being on the apps all the time.

When people say find a hobby, they usually mean aside from brooding. They want that person to experience healthy socializing that is not romantic in nature, so that person can chill, get better, get to a better mental space before going at it again.

Also if someone is down on themselves because they can't get a date, getting better at a hobby or health or career related goals can boost their confidence since their confidence won't likely be boosted by trying to date any time soon.

Sure there are some people who say it carelessly or inappropriately, but often it's a response to someone having a seemingly unhealthy sadness surrounding their lack of dating life.

M_LaSalle · 2023-01-14T19:07:00+00:00

Work on yourself is excellent advice. So is focus on your career and hobbies. You need money to live on, and until and unless you meet a woman, you need stuff to do with your time. So this is not gaslighting. If you aren't working on yourself, if you aren't trying to get ahead and living an interesting and worthwhile life, then you're giving up, and frankly that's not going to help you get women.

Relationships aren't everything and the right one will come along aren't gaslighting either, they're mostly just people trying to be nice to someone who has a problem they can't really do all that much about. (They could say something like "Well, Bob, your problem is that you're fat, ugly, broke, and have no social skills or personality and you're going to die alone", but even if that statement is true, most people would look askance at anyone who said it.) No one is trying to gaslight or deceive, but they want to sound encouraging and hopeful, even if neither statement has any truth value. Career and hobbies aren't really an adequate substitute for a relationship, and there is no guarantee the right one will ever come along.

There is no actionable advice anyone can give you, even if the advice is good, that will guarantee a man success in dating and love. The deck is here is very badly stacked against him uness he is blessed with looks, money, or status beyond the reach of most men. But not to try guarantees failure. If you get good advice and work your ass off, you may still die alone. You live in a dying civilization and in part it is dying because feminism has let loose female hypergamy and removed any limitations on female sexual imperatives. Modern women are mostly uninterested in being wives to the men they could actually marry and bearing their children while still young enough to do so. Nothing can be done about this short of a fairly totalitarian political movement (Which we may eventually get!)

Women are what they are, and mostly they are uninterested in you. Nothing can be done about this. Work hard, do your best, be the best man you can be, and be stoic in the face of failure.

1stevercody · 2023-01-14T19:17:55+00:00

Work on yourself doesn't necessarily just mean take a shower and go for a jog. It means work on your self-esteem, work on your worldview. Talk to a therapist or a life coach or something maybe. No, building model ships in a bottle isn't going to replace the need for a relationship. But a miserable person outside of a relationship is probably going to be a miserable person in a relationship. These are the same guys that end up being super needy and controlling, jealous of everything their partner does because they're afraid she's going to "find a higher quality male" or some bs.

generalmanifest · 2023-01-14T20:00:56+00:00

I think they mean develop a sense of self, find a higher sense of esteem, become even more emotionally developed and mature, try to understand women have brains that afford them the capacity to communicate 5x as much as you do, learn how to communicate better.

MisogenesUSA · 2023-01-15T03:06:30+00:00

Lots of women will get with a 40 year old man who’s financially stable. Young women. Agegapersonals is an example. You may need a passport

potato4dawin · 2023-01-15T03:56:31+00:00

It's not gaslighting, it's the honest truth delivered softly and civil but I'm a bit autistic so I don't pull my punches. Let me lay it out for you. You're either

a respectable man and with time and patience you will get a woman who you are satisfied to spend the rest of your life with and who will be satisfied to spend the rest of their life with you or
you're a desperate loser who is never satisfied with their life whether you get 0 bitches or 1000 and will die a miserable death like Emperor Caligula because for people like you, dopamine from sex or jacking off is not a means of building a connection in a relationship that will last but just a drug like crack where the lows gradually overcome the highs until your highs are as high as your lows were at the start and withdrawals are a despondent hell that no amount of debauchery can save you from.

Work on yourself because if you complain about relationships or feel the need to have your lifestyle validated or praised by people on the internet then whether you're an incel or an emperor, you'll be a miserable loser in the game of life. Y'all really should read up on Emperor Caligula's downfall because that's what a lot of you are aspiring to and it's not healthy.

azurix · 2023-01-15T05:21:47+00:00

That’s not true. Working on yourself in any way is always good.

Men simply want a relationship in the same way they want a funko pop in this scenario. If they want it then they want it. No real thought. Just part of the collection.

You want a partner. Someone you care about. And have similar interests not just a person to fulfill a role.

Funko pops aren’t fulfilling. Working on your job is. It’ll benefit you and your partner. Isn’t that worth something?

Men honestly suck at understanding certain things including relationship stuff. While you’re looking for any woman, they’re looking for someone to care for. If they’re looking for a relationship.

As for sex, that can be casual on both ends

Gilmoregirlin · 2023-01-15T07:38:37+00:00

The idea is not to replace intimate relationships with hobbies etc it’s to engage in them so you make yourself more attractive to the opposite sex, so you gain confidence in interacting with others and, this last one is really important , gain social skills. And I would give this same advice to women.

Edit: and it’s not gaslighting when it is indeed your fault.

2023-01-15T07:43:46+00:00

Imagine then a guy spending his 20/30s "working on himself", restlessly improving and grinding, only to wake up at 40 single and inexperienced,

No such thing. If you lift 20 years consistently and manage to stay single I will personally buy you a harem. It might be south eastern asian, but I will do it.

What you intentionally misrepresent is the ideea that career and hobbies make you more attractive. Or enhance your life. They are indeed blue pill trappings but mostly because people do it as indulgences.

If you earn 20 years don't leverage that for liabilities, you can get a home you have for life. (and get the fuck out if you come at me remortage bros!)

Hobbies usually is code for get out there and enjoy life a little. It's not stay at home more and get weird hobbies that just keep you isolated from humankind.

Title	"Just work on yourself, bro" is a polite way of gaslighting men
Author	Johnny_Autism
Upvotes	425
Comments	477
Date	January 14, 2023 12:27 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/10bnahw/just_work_on_yourself_bro_is_a_polite_way_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/just-work-on-yourself-bro-is-a-polite-way-of.1148385 https://theredarchive.com/post/1148385

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Men are hurting!