Why does it seem when Western women reach their 30s their expectations get higher(not lower) whenever they are met or not that’s a different story? (Challenging the wall narrative)

nemma88 · 2022-08-11T07:51:25+00:00

Some of this is selection bias.

Women with lower standards in their 20's are no longer dating into their 30's, but the women with high standards in their 20's are more likely to be.

TermAggravating8043 · 2022-08-11T10:54:19+00:00

Cause women in their 30’s have built their lives, and don’t want to change it for just anybody.

They have a career, a house, pets maybe, they know if they brought someone into that he would need to be able to improve her life instead of bringing her down.

ImAGhostOooooooo · 2022-08-11T14:19:09+00:00

People who do not offer much always think others have high expectations.

We have this thread once or twice a week, older women are too picky followed by younger women being too flaky, followed by a thread about how the age of consent should be ten.

In general here at PPD most of the participants dislike women's thinking/choices nobmatter what age they are. PPD men want to bang women they just don't like them very much.

ashpr0ulx · 2022-08-11T04:58:23+00:00

it’s normal to have different wants, desires, and expectations at 30 than you did at 20. you have 10 added years of experience to draw from.

Willow-girl · 2022-08-11T11:59:33+00:00

Having a man is optional not mandatory for modern women, and many don't like their options.

Paranoidexboyfriend · 2022-08-11T14:09:55+00:00

As you get older, the idea of being alone as you age becomes less frightening as you see its not that big of a deal. Many of these women would rather be alone than pair up with a guy she's not super into.

Also, there's a selection bias. The women that really want relationships bad and the women with low standards for men they want to commit to already got married in their 20s. So the remaining women are the ones with high standards or that are comfortable alone. Its not a change in the individual women, its just that there's now a higher percentage of the high standards/comfy alone women in the 30s single women demographic since the others got weeded out in their 20s.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2022-08-11T05:49:45+00:00

It depends on the individual woman. Women who are over 30 who are looking for LTR and marriage lower their physical requirements in a partner but raise their financial requirements. Women who are over 30 who aren't looking for serious relationships do not lower any of their standards.

KayRay1994 · 2022-08-11T05:44:20+00:00

women who are single in their 30s and who ask for a more specific standard both don’t have time to waste and are comfortable enough on their own at that point (that being but said, i also wouldn’t call it “higher standards” more just different priorities) - to me this is far more self aware than settling

2022-08-11T10:34:51+00:00

It's experience.

As we get older and have more experience with relationships, men and sex, and we learn what we like and what we don't. We have more confidence to seek out what we want and move past what we don't.

Whenever you see those "What do you wish you'd have done differently when you were younger?" AskWomen threads, a very common one is "I wish I'd have left that bad relationship sooner."

I think a lot of women learn from experiences like that, and refine our tastes accordingly.

hari_hbp · 2022-08-11T11:59:05+00:00

Single women are happier. By the 30s, most women would be mature, with careers for financial stability, friends and family for companionship, FWBs/long-term hookups for sexual needs etc.

Bringing in somebody else into this, especially a man, would feel a bit restrictive. It feels like they lose a little bit of freedom because now, they have to take into consideration another person's feelings and thoughts as well as compared to before where only their decisions mattered.

I think they go by, "If I find an awesome guy, I'll consider a relationship" (when they are mature), not "I want a relationship, so I'll find a guy" (which they followed when they were more naive). Hence, their standards would be really high for a partner.

gladusgates · 2022-08-11T04:57:29+00:00

Women who are 30+ have higher standards with regards to provider traits, which allows men who aren't the best looking to have more of an opportunity with them. But yes, their standards are still high, hypergamy doesn't just go away, it's a feature not a bug.

midwesternMD · 2022-08-11T05:10:20+00:00

The “standards” probably change. In your post-college years, you’re used to eating 3-day old leftovers and living with 1-2 roommates because you’re broke and just starting out. You still look forward to partying on most weekends. After a while, that routine gets old, your career starts to evolve, and you live on your own. At some point, some women might shift their priorities and look for someone who is stable instead of someone who is fun. Some describe this behavior as dual mating. I agree that it seems like a revenge fantasy to imagine women settling down out of desperation.

Put another way: the young are idiots and idealistic. You think you’re invincible and that things will just “work out.” As you get older and see how things work in real life, you start to accept that most people have to put in real work to earn the stuff/lifestyle that they want. And if you begin to put in that real work, you begin to want to date others who also put in that work.

Ok-Map-7596 · 2022-08-11T05:19:11+00:00

Because it's better to not date at all than end up with a low value man. Low value men don't add anything to her life if anything they're a drain.

87AudreyHorne · 2022-08-11T05:51:22+00:00

Well first of all, i think 30 is a very arbitrary age. Maybe it depends on where someone lives but women in their 30ies and 40ies today look great, what do people assume would happen suddenly?

But in your 30ies you're more confident, you're not trying to imitate cool behaviours to impress (be the "cool girl" for example) because you see through it, you know what you like and what you don't, you're knowledgeable and not easy to impress by posers.

I was talking to my friends about this recently, especially since girls tend to date guys a few years older, how when we were younger wed think someone is so impressive and smart for reading certain books and having some kind of philosophy, and then you're that age and it looks so stupid.

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2022-08-11T06:33:36+00:00

Well hopefully you've got your shit together . Guess she doesn't want a build a bear man .

fakingandnotmakingit · 2022-08-11T04:54:14+00:00

Because as we learn more about ourselves, we learn more about what we want.

Like whether we want kids, what lifestyle we want, what kind of person we want to be with

Because things that are acceptable in your 20s stop being acceptable in your 30s.

Like someone trying to start at new business at 25 is different to someone trying to start a new business at 35. Someone broke at 25 is very different to someone being broke at 35. People who like going out to the club every weekend at 25 is very different to someone doing that at 35

agathadusty · 2022-08-11T04:49:27+00:00

Because they’ve spent their time with shitty men already and realized that they would rather be alone than be with someone who doesn’t actually bring more positives than negatives in their lives.

MarBitt · 2022-08-11T07:24:55+00:00

She has no higher standards. Her requirements usually change with age in a direction that a man ten years younger will find it difficult to fulfill. She is looking for a partner to start a family, not just another lover for sex.

Siukslinis_acc · 2022-08-11T04:50:11+00:00

Because they realised that they can be happy/content on their own? They no longer are of the mindset that you have to have a relationship to be fulfilled and happy. So they are searching for one who enhances their lives, gives something that they don't already have. So if you already have a pretty good life, the basic stuff won't add to your life.

Like if you have a tightly knit group of friends who satisfies your companionship needs, a guy who can give you only companionship does seem redundant.

LouisdeRouvroy · 2022-08-11T08:22:05+00:00

It's a survivor sample bias.

You're comparing almost all women in their 20s with the women in their 30s that didn't manage to get paired, probably due to their shitty personality, like unrealistic expectations compared to who they are.

BaiKingu · 2022-08-11T10:21:08+00:00

It is a revenge fantasy and the whole problem with this narrative is the naive belief women in the 20s will just be screwing uber hot conventionally attractive men, which is a male based distortion. Lots of girls in their 20s are out getting their tender hearts broken by men far below what they could get because theyre naive.

Women who are in their 30s are often still attractive but have come to not settle for any man giving them the bare minumum

Vtridolla · 2022-08-11T04:45:14+00:00

I assume the “wall” is just wishful thinking by jaded men.

Especially nowa days there is a lot less pressure to be married and have kids. A lot of people are happy being the cool fun auntie/uncle.

FilmStew · 2022-08-11T06:28:56+00:00

They have less time to screw around with men who may not satisfy their wants and needs.

With the increase in technology and the availability of it, both men and women who stay in good shape can remain great looking well into their 40’s. Women are very aware of this, however, most know their options will get slimmer and slimmer within the decade.

The solution to this is not to just settle for someone who doesn’t meet your wants or needs, the solution is to put in the work and have the leverage to obtain a man who fits your wants and needs.

As you said, whether or not they will do that is a different story.

Diddy_1978 · 2022-08-11T11:14:35+00:00

So you are saying that when a woman is 20, building her life, enjoying freedom and having fun, wants a boyfriend who is the same, and when she is accomplished, with a career, and with her shit together, she wants a partner at the same level. Weird, ain’t it?

Exotic-One3381 · 2022-08-11T05:09:51+00:00

Because in their early 20s college days a girl is impressed by a guy who owns a car and takes them out for frozen yoghurt . In their 30s,the woman owns her own car and home and can buy or cook a decent meal on her own. She expects the guy to be down with adulting a d have his life together, just as she does, as a bare minimum. 20s girls don't have a minimum since they are still living in dorms and have a more casual life.

Illustrious_Wish_383 · 2022-08-11T05:47:16+00:00

They want you to be tall dark and handsome but also with a graduate degree and own instead of rent

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2022-08-11T08:46:21+00:00

More experience on what she likes and doesn't. More confidence so not needing validation anymore.Also there's no reason for her to be desperate s8nce she probably known she'll be fine remaining single.

Fun_Push7168 · 2022-08-11T13:28:43+00:00

You are seeing it from a 20s perspective.

Basically all people have a higher standard when older, it moves up as a group.

If you take a group of 20s women they are absolutely rejecting more than 30s women are. The baseline standard for the age group may have moved up but the women have actually become less picky, though not a ton. That's why a man's desirability is still fairly flat, it doesn't have the opposite curve of women's.

You're basically correct, women's success plummets while men's doesn't reflect the opposing increase. The wall still exists though....it's weird.

This is probably the best study I've found to demonstrate the key things happening.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/08/online-dating-out-of-your-league/567083/

They rank desirability based on messages sent /replied to the quality of replies, who replies ( so if you reply to a less desirable your rank goes down, if a more desirable replies to you it goes up, etc )

Key to keep in mind, desirability here reflects your success, not your overall desirability in society as a whole. Hence why a 50 yr old man is not everyone's ideal but still peak desirable.

The intersection age for desirability is about 32 Men's desirability is fairly flat especially after 30 but climbs all the way to 50

A man will never reach the desirability of a woman about 27 or under for his whole life.

A 20yr old man and a 38 yr old woman have about the same desirability.

At about age 30 women may hit the wall. Their desirability is now dropping below what a mans will be the rest of life.

At about age 40 could be the wall, women are now less desirable than a man is throughout his life.

Women will not experience the disparity between a 20yr old man and a 20yr old woman until age 50. So at age 50, welcome to dating as a 20 yr old man.

Men and women both send the most messages to people about 25 percent more desirable than themselves and almost noone responds below themselves...look at that, we are both hypergamous. It would be interesting to see the stats on women and men responding within their own range though.

I would guess that women experiencing a huge disparity in formative dating years probably effects their outlook for a large part of life and encourages selective behavior.

Tons of insight to be gleaned here. Really explains a lot of people's seemingly contradictory views.

spawnofthedevil · 2022-08-11T16:39:36+00:00

They know better. Plain and simple. A lot of things that wouldn’t be red flags at 19/20 are red flags when you’re an adult.

pearllovespink · 2022-08-11T13:24:39+00:00

Having a low standard woman isn’t anything to brag about. Women in their 30’s have higher standards for a reason. They’re looking for something serious and long term. Sounds to me like you’re not all the way their yet maturely so messing with the 20’s ladies is easier for you.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2022-08-11T04:46:13+00:00

When a woman reaches her 30s, her standards don't increase, they just change. A younger women might prefer a more attractive or exiting person. A women in her 30s has lower standards for these things and instead is looking for financial stability, a good partner, and commitment.

sarkington · 2022-08-11T05:03:55+00:00

People become less dependent and deferential as their competence and knowledge increases

retal1ator · 2022-08-11T08:16:41+00:00

20s or 30s all women respond well to quality. A man should incorporate some alpha traits along with beta traits, be jacked, cool, and also caring and sweet. Just like a quality woman should be a loyal girlfriend and yet be a freak in bed.

itmethrowaway12 · 2022-08-11T09:04:00+00:00

its cuz the crazy girls with insane standards are left over and all the sane ones with more reasonable standards are gone

EnteFetz · 2022-08-11T09:26:36+00:00

In my experience women above 35 are much easier to hook up with than 25 year old women. Don't know about dating though, because I would not date a woman that much older than me.

aspiring-schizoid · 2022-08-11T13:09:50+00:00

Because more women know they are worth more than whether they’re in a relationship/marriage and have no need at all to settle as they are already very happy. They’re also experienced and intelligent and know what not to tolerate.

2022-08-11T13:50:22+00:00

Oh she can have expectations but let's face it anyone looking at a 30 year old who has such high demands knows that she was entirely fine not having any demands in her 20s. It's the concept of expecting people to pay higher than new cost on a car. Who the hell wants to sign up for that deal?

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-08-11T13:58:06+00:00

In my 20s my feeling was dating is for fun, I'm not going to end up with this guy. I'm too young! I don't know where my life is going.

30s you're more settled, you know your trajectory and if a guy doesn't fit that why bother? If you're single with no kids and no ex-husband you're basically gold.

SwaySh0t · 2022-08-11T15:18:35+00:00

For most women I’d argue the standards don’t get higher or lower, more or less, they change to align with new persona they created for themselves in their 30’s. How many born again virgins have we seen? Or party girl women who are now suddenly getting baptized in their 30’s? She’ll claims that she no longer is attracted to alphas/fuccbois/ etc, but that’s mostly because she can’t consistently attract these men to commit to her like she could in her prime years, so she justifies other/beta traits in men as attractive. It’s usually not out of genuine introspection or self awareness but necessity.

HuMMHallelujah · 2022-08-11T19:18:39+00:00

Women realize that it’s better to be single than to be with someone who makes you miserable

g0juice · 2022-08-11T22:05:49+00:00

They get more used to being alone and/or rejected. So they would rather not try harder.

gabatme · 2022-08-11T22:58:12+00:00

I think it's because as you gain experience, you realize that it is both easier and more fulfilling to be single and free than to be tied to someone who drags you down. Especially if that someone expects you to cook, clean up after them, have sex with you whether you want to or not, etc. and barely contributes to your life.

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neetykeeno · 2022-08-11T10:03:24+00:00

Well most women at thirty know a fair amount of the details of how they will be taking care of themselves if they don't partner up. Guys have to offer better than that. Theoretically that would be an easy task. Practically speaking though...these are men we're talking about, poisoned from birth by patriarchy and they've got a bunch of expectations about all manner of things and a tendency to assume women will just naturally enjoy meeting all those expectations. So while she's counting things like shopping for birthday presents for his family on his behalf or sewing buttons back on his shirts as burdens, he's seeing them as natural expressions of feminine love and part of what she will find rewarding to do over and over.

Similarly a lot of thirty year old women see use of a man's income to enable a family to be created as something a man will cheerfully partake in and even be a bit grateful to be given the opportunity. This is not so much the case with men at that age as children are no longer seen so much by society as symbols of all sorts of life accomplishment for men. A son doesn't make a man appear more potent and a daughter doesn't make him appear more of a tough protective figure. Incidentally...I don't think it is feminism that scuppered that. Capitalism did.

Basically a man and a woman aren't putting things in the same columns when we tote up whether the deal is going to be fair. This reads on both sides as pickiness.

AelfredRex · 2022-08-11T11:27:31+00:00

Maturity. They grew up and now know what they want.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-08-11T11:43:11+00:00

People are more likely to know what they want and don’t want in their 30s vs their 20s. Most have had bad experiences and found that the wrong man can have a very negative value in your life. Standards may also simply change rather than getting higher all around. Men in their 30s likely have different standards than those in their 20s a lot of times too. But there’s also nothing magical about 30. Things are always changing, typically quite rapidly in their early 20s and more slowly thereafter.

wtknight · 2022-08-11T12:10:30+00:00

It’s because these get fed up with men, the bullshit of certain men, and they no longer need the social approval that comes with having a boyfriend and therefore compromising on their standards in order to have one. Women by nature have ridiculously picky standards in men compared to men’s standards in women.

tritoneharmonies · 2022-08-11T14:32:40+00:00

The 30-somethings got wise after being screwed over and chasing validation for all of their wasted 20's.

BumblingBeta · 2022-08-11T15:54:01+00:00

Yes I have noticed this too. It seems to be very common among lower socio-economic classes.

Most women now have the mindset that men must reach their standards, and if they don't, they're not going to take a hit to their ego and drop those standards. They'll just remain single, raise any kids in a single mother household, and claim that there aren't enough "real" or "good" men out there.

gofigure62 · 2022-08-11T16:00:53+00:00

The older one gets, the less they're willing to deal with bullshit.

People know what they want and what they don't by a certain age. They're aware of who they are and what they're capable of tolerating.

Same goes for men. People become less flexible as they age because they're more sef assure and self aware.

AbbreviationsHot1200 · 2022-08-11T18:23:56+00:00

Their expectations get higher as a form of cope.

Its not their own fault they can't get a man, its men's fault for not living up to their standards.

LotBuilder · 2022-08-11T18:25:43+00:00

I think it goes both ways but maybe not equally. I’m 44 and divorced with two kids and there were things I would tolerate at 22 that I would not tolerate for a minute now. I have also been with so many beautiful woman that I am no longer blinded by that.

reignoferror00 · 2022-08-11T19:00:22+00:00

I wouldn't say 30+, maybe as a guess 40+ or so, there are those women that don't lower their standards (in fact likely up them) for a man for a relationship, and just do things more things with their female friends and often own several pets. Their interest in sex is very conditional when it exists at all. Casual sex or FWB for the most part aren't considered.

They might make many social media posts where they bemoan they are lonely and don't have a man AND also make posts about how they don't need a man. Those women wanting a relationship seem to want it more for the financial uptick to help pay the bills and/or as a way of going on more trips and things like that. The only man they want is a fairy tale version that they don't work to find but magically falls in their lap.

Stop_Maximum · 2022-08-11T21:03:44+00:00

Don’t think it’s wrong. At 20 you’re likely to live in a fantasy in which you don’t care if the person ticks the right boxes. Until you realise they weren’t what you expected. I think selection should start from early because at the end, it only ends badly.

chingness · 2022-08-11T21:26:32+00:00

People are taught to fear being alone above all else but for a lot of women once they experience it they realise it’s better to be alone than with someone who isn’t right for them so they raise their bar.

vampirepathos · 2022-08-11T23:12:59+00:00

It seems to me online a lot of guys have this “revenge fantasy” where women once they reach their 30’s

They're probably the same guys who thinks only women in their twenties are valuable and they hit on them even if it was perceived as creepy (way too big age gap).

Also as a woman, if somehow my current relationship fails, I still wouldn't lower my standards. Marriage is big life choice, a big commitment. Commit to the wrong person and one will suffer the consequences for the rest of their lives.

IcarusKiki · 2022-08-12T01:18:46+00:00

because dating is more complicated when you have to worry about money and your bio clock is ticking

ImAGhostOooooooo · 2022-08-12T03:36:37+00:00

29 F here ☺️

For me it's because I've lived life and know what I'm looking for (mostly lol). Why would I settle for someone that I'm certain won't make me happy? Normally the older we get, the more we want to find someone to stay with us for the long run. I'm not 22 and looking for a companion to waste time with, I want a best friend and partner to share my life with. I want to make sure I'm doing that with the right person.

When I was younger, I'd see red flags and ignore them. I'd see things I didn't like and think "eh, no big deal", but now that I'm older, I know those signs are there for a reason. We learn and grow mentally, so we set different standards than a girl in their early 20s would, it's a part of growing up.

If you're pushing 30 and your standards haven't changed, you're not learning from past mistakes.

AnotherWildling · 2022-08-12T03:47:11+00:00

Women who have gone through relationships know more and more what their type is and , from experience, which men to avoid completely. For us, better be single than “settle” for the type of men we know to avoid simply because we know it tends not to work out. Sure, we might be wrong about someone, but we know ourselves and we know whom we tend to match well with but even more so, whom we clash with. Mistakes have been made that we do not wish to repeat.

Kizka · 2022-08-12T04:35:24+00:00

I'm in my thirties, been in a relationship since my twenties. Although already being in a relationship, my expectations definitely grew higher and we as a couple grew together. The older you get the less you're willing to put up with bullshit, that's really all there is to it. When you're progressing professionally, deal with aging parents, other stressors of an adult life, then you expect that this one aspect of your life is a positive one and not additional stressor. I'd rather be alone than in a relationship that makes me unhappy and stresses me out. Luckily for us, so far we managed to become better partners for each other throughout the years and we both agree that with what is out there we're not interested in a relationship with anyone else.

upalse · 2022-08-11T07:35:02+00:00

Cat ladies and single moms are preselecting themselves. Meaning most sane women are taken by the time they hit 30, majority of what's left are women who were delusional all their life. This gives the impression that "all old women are high maintenance", while in reality you're talking about a tiny preselected pool.

womandatory · 2022-08-11T13:04:41+00:00

Accurate. Firstly, there is no wall. Second, any wall that applies to women applies equally to men.

Women these days are their own strength and saviour, because most men are weak as piss. We earn our own money, pay our own bills, own our homes and cars and what do men offer us? Mediocre, male-orgasm-centric porn-inspired sex that is unsatisfying and often degrading or painful.

Men don’t offer much, so women are turning off men. What a surprise.

HuckleberryThis2012 · 2022-08-11T15:29:56+00:00

Probably bc their professional life is more in order, and they’ve had experiences with men who don’t have their shit together and it’s turned them off of guys that could be considered a “project.” Their standards actually don’t get higher in terms of looks, it’s just their priorities that have changed. Perfectly natural that.

2022-08-12T05:01:32+00:00

Women who aren't paired by their 30's are mostly going to be shitty options to begin with.

anon-sucks · 2022-08-11T08:11:43+00:00

It’s so much easier to explain why no one wants to be with you by saying “no one can match my standards.”

ElectricBugs · 2022-08-11T10:44:31+00:00

The older women get the less they are prepared to settle. They also get to a point where they probably have had a few relationships that haven't worked out so recognise that men actually don't improve their life ultimately and they can do without men unless they add value.

Prestigious-Law-4059 · 2022-08-11T10:15:11+00:00

Because society now teaches women to be ‘indepent’ and ‘know your worth sis’ when in reality, they are only declining as they get older and their chances of finding something stable are decreasing every year they wait to find a man.

Intelligent-Term · 2022-08-11T12:57:06+00:00

Idk. I suppose women know there is a 'wall' there. And to them there's no difference between 30 years of age and 70 years of age. Meaning that that they just accept the fact that their best years are over (even when they're not, really). I'm a 51 year old retired man, and I had 18 years dating/married with one woman 7 years younger than me, and after my divorce 8 years with a woman who was 23 years younger than me (she was in her 20s). The woman in her 20s was so much more agreeable and fun to be around. There is something that breaks in the brain of most post-30 year old women. I'm sorry but it's true. I'm sure a lot of women blame the standards that men and society put on them. But we all have standards put on us. I am not blind to the standards put on me as an able bodied white man. I am supposed to be a super man who is gallant, hard working, great father, and provider/protector. It's stressful.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-08-11T06:29:10+00:00

Society teaches women you can sleep around and focus on your career into your 30s if you want a family with no repercussions.
Society tells women they are the prize and doesn't criticize them for a combination of unrealistic standards and refusal to self improve.
Some older women are just very bitter and carry a lot of baggage. I've matched with women 8-20+ years older who got offended at the notion that I'd be interested in casual but not dating seriously.

John_Oakman · 2022-08-11T10:14:44+00:00

Wisdom, maturity, and life experiences combining to the realization of the minimal prerequisites required in a partner for a relationship to be the better option in comparison to staying single.

DrinkItInMan11 · 2022-08-11T04:47:50+00:00

Because they have to desperately cling on to the fact that their value is deteriorating by the day and they try to overcompensate for it.

2022-08-11T09:15:15+00:00

Look at it this way “modern women mentality” 20- i just wanna have fun/hot girls summer 30-im looking for something serious/dating with a purpose 40-where are all the good men 50-“walks into store” excuse me… do you guys sell friskies… here kitty kitty 60- “I’m going to die alone…

Massive-Repair286 · 2022-08-13T01:25:51+00:00

maybe because in our 30’s we know what we bring to the table and are happy alone, we don’t need a man, it would be nice but if it doesn’t happen we know we will be fine, that’s my opinion. i love my alone time & having my own space, doing what i want not having to answer to anyone…..

CoyoteCookies · 2022-08-13T02:37:39+00:00

This all seems incredibly obvious. The thirties ladies have more life experience, know what they want and don’t want and won’t string along guys they don’t want. They don’t want incompatible guys, toxic or shitty relationships they might have accepted when they were younger.

Massive-Repair286 · 2022-08-13T15:27:04+00:00

i think men who only date very young women usually have low self esteem and can’t handle that grown woman pressure 🤷🏼‍♀️ & define high value because i’m not seeing that here (imo) that as well is subjective. this whole conversation is actually so shallow im not sure why i inserted myself. probably because i’m so lonely and ugly in my 30’s i have nothing else to do since now no man will ever want me 😂🙄

2022-08-11T14:15:12+00:00

Because men manipulate us in our 20s so we get older and wiser

DestroGamaDx · 2022-08-11T14:46:27+00:00

Its because when they hit the wall they double down to maintain thier power or keep the illusion of it and to avoid any regrets from who they slept with or gave a chance in thier 20s.

The wall doesn't exist though because men are always looking for scraps and women become either less shallow or more shallow with no inbetween. Its not maturity mostly, they already knew what was going to happen, they made that choice and they will deny it but the want to get blown out is still there. When they're afraid of losing the guy they're with it first starts as emotional cheating

beleidigtewurst · 2022-08-11T15:07:18+00:00

Women measurably look "UP", i.e. expect status of theirs or above (Hypergamy).

By 30 they get, well, more of a status.

There were direct studies asking men/women how do they feel about number of potential mates.

Men who were "growing" were saying that their pool of potential partners is growing.

Women in the same position were saying that their pool is shrinking.

Hypergamy is a bitch.

That should be especially bad in a men hating country like US, where boys are lagging so badly, as Christina Sommers predicted in her book "War against boys" 20 years ago.

GlowingAsItDazzles · 2022-08-11T15:34:05+00:00

women in their late 20s-early 30s arent looking for some "boyfriend" to hang around with, theyre looking for a husband and a father. this causes them to attempt to ADD husband traits to their attraction traits and appears to be "higher standards" when in fact, they just are looking for a different kind of relationship now. they are also more likely to be better off withotu a man who doesnt tick their boxes so they can afford to want more because they can afford to not get it

Bunny_and_chickens · 2022-08-12T01:13:35+00:00

Women that have low standards and no ambition get married young and usually either end up miserable or are too stupid to want anything other than what they have. The wall is just another misogynist revenge fantasy

throwedboy · 2022-08-12T23:04:13+00:00

They don’t have higher standards. They’re just so deep in the rabbit hole of the validation seeking hamster wheel they’re essentially on auto pilot.

henryXsami99 · 2022-08-11T09:22:57+00:00

Saying that women have high standards is so vague, what does that even mean? What is the standard? What considered high? What not considered high?

2022-08-11T10:05:06+00:00

Their expectations for trivial things like looks and status go down, but their expectations for other things like personality, chemistry and career go up.

Why? Because they're now looking for father/husband material and they have learned to tolerate less shittty behaviour.

Siegfried66 · 2022-08-11T10:17:58+00:00

Congratulations, you're the 1,035,464th user to post this exact thread topic!

2022-08-11T11:37:35+00:00

It does not seem like it. It IS like it. And it is very normal, to some point. A combination of two reasons:

Women date sideways or up in their social hierarchy. A woman in her 30's with a good career under her belt will of course adjust her standards as her socieconomic status improves.
Experience. We all get it. We all learn as we go. We all find what we like and what we don't like.

>It seems to me online a lot of guys have this “revenge fantasy” where women once they reach their 30’s have to settle down for just any guy. And will settle down as soon as possible. Or at least find a stable boyfriend.

Well, it's not that they HAVE to, it's more that the pickings get slimmer FAST and that's a fact of life. Sure many men feel schadenfreude when they see a tiktok of some crazy lady yelling where are all the good men gone, but that's not far from reality: it does get statistically harder for women to find a desirable partner. Because the game of musical chairs keeps going.

edgyny · 2022-08-11T14:04:06+00:00

In reality it's a frogboil. Everyone's expectations increase with age. You just happen to notice the digit rollover.

2022-08-11T15:17:52+00:00

However, based on my own experience, I’m in my 20’s, the women I’ve met who are in their 30’s have higher standards to the point that, I saw that it was not worth competing. It was actually smarter to find younger women who have lower standards.

And now you see why feminists worked diligently for years to construct a narrative whereby they shame or demonize the man who pursues women younger than himself.

The women you are talking about KNOW they can't compete with their younger competition, so they disincentivize any possibility that younger women would even be an option at all for you.

SmakeTalk · 2022-08-11T16:57:06+00:00

Like so many other things there's not a blanket answer here for how women adapt to the dating world after they hit 30. I'd argue there's simple multiple 'common' directions that women will go which range from "settling" to "digging in":

Settle for effectively any guy they're attracted to with a pulse and shows genuine interest
Decide to focus more on dating while keeping their standards largely the same, more likely to meet someone because of the increased exposure to dating
Realize they don't have the same drive as their peers for marriage and children so they dig in and don't focus any more than before on dating, maybe even less

Men seem to have their own reactions to reaching 30 as well, which similarly range between two extremes: date younger to feel younger or commit and settle down to feel adult.

I'd argue as well these things are largely based on sociological standards for both genders since we see a much wider range of directions within the LGBTQ+ community. I don't think it's sex-based, I think it's based on where someone sees themselves within our society and what their given options are going forward.

For example: if men had a similar age-pressure to women for having children we'd likely see more men around 30 choosing to settle down, and they'd probably spend more of their 20's preparing for that.

YourAverageTurkGuy · 2022-08-11T18:32:37+00:00

Depends on the person. Sure there are some women who simply have unrealistic standards that they themselves can't match and will wait for prince charming forever but if a woman spent her 20's improving her career and herself I think she has the right to have high standards considering that the end goal for both parties is to settle down with a high value person

2022-08-11T19:09:22+00:00

Maybe standards don't change, but the ones who don't settle are the ones who have higher standards.

2022-08-11T21:36:31+00:00

Challenging the wall narrative

Pfff h h hh hh hh h h. Classic.

Nudge it a bit closer to reality and call it "denial".

Ah, well.

It seems to me online a lot of guys have this “revenge fantasy” where women once they reach their 30’s have to settle down for just any guy.

Nope, never seen it happen. Not once have I seen online content claiming that chicks "have to settle down for just any guy".

What are you talking about? Examples? Links?

c4993 · 2022-08-11T22:36:52+00:00

I mean, tbf a 30 year old woman is naturally gonna feel more of a ticking clock (sociologically and biologically) so they have less time to waste. I’m 29 and I’m even feeling it a bit as a guy (even though most of my life won’t change beyond the purely psychological “my 20s are over” feeling people beat themselves up over and any 23 year old on the same level on paper as me being picked over me in most jobs when I begin a new field, but I’m moving up fast so I’m good) so women have it tough in that regard

TheMedsPeds · 2022-08-12T01:12:11+00:00

I’m a woman who is pickier now than I would have been in my 20’s. Before I would have dated a guy that I have chemistry with that’s at least decent looking regardless to his housing/job situation.

Now days, if you don’t have a car and a job, idc if you give me butterflies, go back to Mommy dude. If I wanted to raise a child I’d have one. You are gonna work if we date. Idc if it’s $7.50 an hour. You gonna work and pitch into the bills and I’m not brining your ass there and back.

I’m in a relationship though, so it’s not currently an issue. But I’ve dated one too many man children for this lifetime and I’d just rather be alone than take care of another full grown man.

FancyCocktailOlive · 2022-08-17T19:17:51+00:00

Why? It’s because they found they weren’t happy in the relationships they had with men when they had lower standards, so they raise them to ensure their next relationship is happier and with a more compatible mate. It’s called “learning from experience.”

TheDisasterClown · 2022-08-23T00:16:56+00:00

As any individual gets older, they've hopefully also developed a sense of self awareness with it. With self awareness often comes higher standards in all sense of applications. You hold yourself to a higher standard, your friends, your family, your romantic relations.

I'm a better version of myself in my 30s who is more patient, thoughtful, etc and I have financial autonomy and I've developed a greater sense of health boundaries and how to communicate effectively. I spent my 20s dating men older than me who at the time, I was just too naive to see that they couldn't get a woman their own age because they didn't have their shit together.

I don't think I have higher standards now that in in my 30s but just the same standards that I hold myself to.

I personally don't understand this concept of "the wall" which is new to me as I've never really spent a lot of time on Reddit. If I was a het cis man, I would not have wanted to date the train wreck that I was in my 20s. Not only was I mentally and emotionally all over the map.....I actually look better in my 30s probably because I just have my shit together now.

Comments

That should be especially bad in a men hating country like US, where boys are lagging so badly, as Christina Sommers predicted in her book "War against boys" 20 years ago.