The "nice guy" trope is a defense mechanism which women deploy to divert attention from the fact that they are rejecting a guy based on a lack of physical attraction

MrAnonPoster · 2024-08-19T18:28:14+00:00

Women do not negotiate attraction. At best they negotiate the level of tolerance.

thisaccountaintrea1 · 2024-08-19T15:19:18+00:00

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Muscletov · 2024-08-20T06:51:15+00:00

Rejecting nice guys goes completely against all those cultural narratives of women being the profound gender whose sexuality is sophisticated and beautiful, in stark contrast to men's. So, the question for them is: "how to reject nice but unattractive men without seeming shallow?" Queue the "nice guys" meme: accuse every man who is nice but unattractive of being a sex-seeking asshole, especially when he exhibits as much as slight frustration about his rejection. Continue chasing stereotypical hot jerks because those nice men "are the same/worse anyway".

One major tell is how "nice guys" are always accused of being after sex only, even if they want relationships. A man seeking (casual) sex is considered vile in our western societies, whereas one seeking relationships is not. Thus, to paint him in the worst possible light, the nice guy is always portrayed as a perverted sex chaser.

Mountain-Jicama-3207 · 2024-08-19T16:38:37+00:00

Thought the nice guy meme was a dude who pretends to be nice to have sex.

Overall if a women is physically attracted too you you can be friendly and they will like you off initial meet and greet if they find you decent it will probably take a good conversation to consider if your aren't her type just overall take the L.

Alot of women will passively reject you due too fear of how you respond if you take the L and just move on without being upset or insulted I've seen some women will put you in the decent category due to personality.

untilfurthernotic3 · 2024-08-19T21:05:20+00:00

I see women hating on nice guys more than actual abusers and misogynists

Quiet_Firefighter_65 · 2024-08-19T21:21:28+00:00

It's not a 4d chess move bro, they're just trying to be polite.

No one is going to say 'fuck off you fat, short, balding, broke troll'. They'll use some other euphemism and anyone will real social intelligence will understand it's a soft way of saying they're not into you.

Hahaveryfunnylaughed · 2024-08-19T16:48:10+00:00

I also like to add that a lot of the time “nice-guys” are also just people who believed lies they were told.

The idea that women just date people who are nice has been spread forever and some ppl really think that if you’re a kind person who holds open doors then girls will swoon over you. When the reality is women will gladly settle for men who aren’t kind at all. It just leads to a lot of confusion and the oh so common “I don’t know why girls don’t like me I’m nice”

steinnit · 2024-08-19T21:51:30+00:00

I agree with this in certain circumstances but often it's more because the man isn't confident and/or masculine enough. It's absolutely correct in some situations though.

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2024-08-19T14:54:06+00:00

I don't understand what's wrong with rejecting someone based on a lack of physical attraction?

BeerNinjaEsq · 2024-08-19T16:59:08+00:00

meh. It's kinda like saying "it's not you, it's me," when breaking up. Or "I'm not hungry" when you don't want to eat something you don't like. Its a social nicety. It can be any number of things, but everyone knows its not honest.

CaregiverFlashy4240 · 2024-08-19T15:02:50+00:00

'Nice guy' just refers to a guy acting nice and doing shit for her with the expectation of getting rewarded with sex for it. Crucial here is the absence of any heartfelt kindness or sincerity, the act is performative. You can absolutely be upfront or befriend a woman first and then decide later you in fact would like to fuck her without warranting the 'nice guy' label. The behaviors you described don't really have to do anything to do with it. Also, nobody is obfuscating the existence of physical attraction. If your claim actually is the entirety of women would collaborate on a ruse to dispute physical appearance as a factor in sexuality, then you either 1) play dumb and uneducated in order to build a strawman or 2) are in fact dumb and uneducated to a point I marvel at your capacity to string this post together.

Aiyon · 2024-08-19T17:31:03+00:00

No? The nice guy trope refers to a guy who is only nice to get with you, and then the minute he realises you're not interested, becomes hostile and aggro.

The "fuck you, i was never into you anyway, bitch" types.

"Nice Guys" are different from guys who are nice, in that the former has to keep telling you how nice he is.

Common-Ferret-1435 · 2024-08-19T15:57:29+00:00

It’s more polite than “incel”.

But it means the same thing. “Boring short guys are pretending to be nice so they’re really horrible, but sexy hot guy railing me in the bathroom is actually super nice on the inside. You can tell how he pulls my hair while fucking me, slaps me when I talk, and pushes me out of the car and drives off. Probably because he’s so tall.”

attendquoi · 2024-08-19T16:34:11+00:00

I still have yet to see any woman we don't reject men based on physical attraction. But I've also rejected attractive men (to me) because what came out of their mouths was revolting.

wtknight · 2024-08-19T14:55:32+00:00

I don't think that women are complaining much about the men who approach and then calmly take no for an answer as long as these men do it in an appropriate place. Someone will always post or tell some story about a woman humiliating a random man, but I really don't think that this is commonplace unless the man is overly persistent.

As for the "get to know as friends first" approach, it is understandably frustrating to women to find out that a man was becoming friends for an ulterior motive of sex. If he happened to fall in love with her over the course of being friends with her, then I think that most women are going to be more understanding of that.

Realistic-Ad-1023 · 2024-08-19T15:23:29+00:00

No, a Nice Guy^tm is very different from someone being rejected for “being a nice guy.”

A Nice Guy^tm is the dude who pretends to be nice and then flys off the handle when you reject him. It could be you’re already taken, aren’t interested, no attraction, don’t know him - it doesn’t matter. He will fly off the handle to name call, threaten and become violent, dropping the “nice guy” act. These men typically call themselves “nice guys” when you reject them initially. “Why not? I’m a nice guy!” But again - the mask quickly slips.

They’re men who think manipulating or lying are the best ways to go about getting a date and then get upset when it doesn’t work. So something like walking up to someone you don’t know isn’t intrinsically bad - but most women don’t want you to not know them before deciding to take them out. Because they also don’t know you. So it feels like you only see us as a body to use. And faking being friends with someone in order fuck is also a problem. Being a genuine friend who catches feelings is pretty normal. Genuinely wanting to get to know someone is pretty normal. Pretending to be someone’s friend and when they aren’t interested, you become angry, bitter or violent - isn’t normal.

Just being a genuinely kind guy who approaches an acquaintance isn’t being a Nice Guy^tm. But yes, attraction matters. The bar isn’t as high as the men here think. That is where this “looks don’t matter” narrative comes from. Because, yes, we need to be attracted to you in order to date you. But no one else needs to. You do not have to be conventionally attractive. Just attractive to me specifically. The best way to approach women is through a warm approach. Acquaintances, women you meet at clubs, volunteering, different hobbies - that’s who you can and should be asking out. It’s why a robust social network is so important to dating. Most of us aren’t one of the beautiful people who can hop on tinder and get 100 matches in a day. But most of us can fall for someone in our auxiliary groups.

harmonica2 · 2024-08-19T14:49:27+00:00

It seems the second point is contradictory, as how can a guy be a nice guy on a weasel at the same time, unless they can?

Immediate-School-952 · 2024-08-19T15:57:09+00:00

I was, and to some extent still are "the nice guy©". I can say that because I've gained enough self awareness to realize that yes I might be kind and caring but those things are the result of a sickening need for approval and a lack of courage to deal with confrontation and negative feedback, (and those things aren't good, and definitely not sexy.) For so long I've felt resentment towards women for preferring men that I saw as complete a"holes but now I kinda see why they we're attracted to them, they didn't give a fk about what anybody thought about them and lived being themselves, and I respect that, so I'm trying to be more myself and learn to not be kind because I feel like I have to but because I want to.

maruthegreat · 2024-08-19T17:22:42+00:00

Many overlook how ‘social desirability bias’ plays into mate selection, affecting both ‘nice guys’ and the women they pursue. It’s not just about a lack of physical attraction—people are more nuanced than that. Sure, attraction matters, but it’s simplistic to think that’s the sole reason ‘nice guys’ often find themselves in the friend zone.

Factors like personality, resource access, lifestyle appeal, and social-emotional intelligence also shape human mate selection. If you’re labeled a ‘nice guy’ and only want friendship as a stepping stone to more, it’s time to reassess. Be honest with yourself, communicate your intentions, and if it’s not mutual, focus on self-improvement—therapy, fitness, personal growth—just remember, there’s no guarantee it will win over the woman you’re aiming for.

TL;DR — Mate selection isn’t just about attraction; social desirability, personality, and lifestyle also matter—so if being a ‘nice guy’ isn’t getting you where you want, be honest, move on, and focus on self-improvement, but don’t expect guaranteed results.

SOwED · 2024-08-19T19:00:04+00:00

If he approaches a woman with the upfront intent to ask her out, he is a "nice guy" who treats women as potential romantic prospects instead of getting to know them as "regular people" first,

I reject this. I've only seen the "nice guy" thing used in the second example, never in the first moments of meeting.

Ambitious_Campaign34 · 2024-08-20T07:35:56+00:00

Don’t think cuz women just demands a gut to be 6 feet tall and handsome and drives a Ferrari and has like 4 million Instagram followers ( mostly women ) that’s it and he can relax now cuz he’s top 1% nah! He can still get rejected or get cheated on lol the nature of the game is incalculable. So the best thing to do is get what you can and then opt out.

classicslayer · 2024-08-20T16:30:05+00:00

It's just women gaslighting themselves into believing that unattractive men are worse people than the ones they sleep with.

LimpJongUn · 2024-08-19T16:41:07+00:00

Once again the biggest shit test is listening to what women say they want. What they say is rarely what they mean, think of it as weeding out the weak. If youre a man who can be swayed into not “bothering” women instead of listening to your billion year evolutionary desire too, you are someone they wont respect on a primal level anyways (ignore all the virtue signalling).

Always shoot your shot regardless of how hot your relative levels are

obviousredflag · 2024-08-19T16:04:32+00:00

Men use the niceguy trope as well. Because nice guys exist, and they are so unattractive, even men get the ick.

Fun_Breakfast697 · 2024-08-19T18:12:12+00:00

That's not what the term "nice guy" (derogatory) means at all.

It very specifically refers to a man who believes he is deserving of sex/romantic attention because he is a "nice guy" even though he takes rejection poorly, ranting at the object of his affection about how women always choose douchebags and she should give him sex instead because he's so "nice."

Slyfer_Seven · 2024-08-19T15:52:32+00:00

"Nice guys" have to do with how the guy responds to rejection in either scenario. The scenarios themselves, or getting rejected, doesn't make someone a "nice guy.

Ultimately, It's not a defense mechanism, just an observation...

mobjack · 2024-08-19T16:24:51+00:00

A woman can be physically attracted to a man initially, but is later turned off by his behavior.

KikiYuyu · 2024-08-19T17:56:59+00:00

So all the accounts of encountering a "nice guy" is just bullshit? Because your little theory doesn't cover that at all.

Queen_BW · 2024-08-19T14:51:31+00:00

Nice guy = boring af

Eschew_Sloth-232 · 2024-08-19T15:11:17+00:00

They vilify the nice guy to protect their need to always have the moral high ground. So, they reject the guy not because he is unattractive (the real reason) but because there is something off with him and they can sense it with their supposed female intuition. The same intuition that curiously fails them when dealing with fuckboys and abusers.

What it reveals is that morality means nothing to women, if a guy is attractive and high status enough he could pedo, neo-nazi and they will rationalize it somehow, until they are on the receiving end of some bad treatment and they claim they were manipulated.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-08-19T15:41:00+00:00

Nah the “niceguy” is an act and everyone knows it. Even the guy doing it.

Downtown_Cat_1173 · 2024-08-19T15:06:34+00:00

You’re allowed to not be physically attracted to someone. The question is why you think women are obligated to be sexually available to you because you want them?

Nobody rejects actually nice guys for being nice. Most guys who claim to be rejected for being nice aren’t actually nice

sad_asian_noodle · 2024-08-19T15:29:57+00:00

As long as you're in the pants, does it matter the route? 🤔

I don't think going the friends route is a weasel-y way, since it's based on something more substantial and less likely to change + the risk is the friendzone. People underestimate how much it takes for someone to like you enough to genuinely become your friend.

"Nice guys" don't actually become your friends. They are just exchanging politeness for brownie points. They feel entitled. There is a difference in strategies here.

JadeGrapes · 2024-08-20T02:55:42+00:00

Nah, sometimes it's a bad personality fit.

I have personally rejected a physically attractive guy who also had a good job, because he just seemed too "meh" about everything. Nothing got him excited or passionate... neither good or bad.

His personality was very much like a "LITE FM" smooth jazz channel. Just kind of sweet, and relaxed, and beige.

I am a person will no chill. I readily join excitement to a festive level. I will happily join anyone in their passionate dislike of ___ too. I'm passionate about work, and about a dozen other things.

We went on a few dates, but I drifted away because I honestly thought my intensity could easily steamroll over his mild ways. Like I could easily always pick for us, and kind of make him wither... he didn't deserve to get withered by my trampling large personality.

He was just too nice for that.

hearyoume14 · 2024-08-19T15:48:58+00:00

I have enough “Nice Girl” tendencies that people have called me out on them.

Part of it is because I was a raised to believe that if you are nice (never kind) people will see that, be drawn to you and reciprocate.

It is more about a guy’s negative reaction and passive aggressiveness. I don’t think expect someone to be happy when they are rejected but going on about what a bitch I am and how I’m too ugly for you anyway isn’t making friends.

Lower-Director1043 · 2024-08-19T16:09:50+00:00

Women shame the nice guy because they feel guilty for rejecting him.

shonenhikada · 2024-08-20T01:14:39+00:00

The nice guy trope is not so different from when women label their ex as being "abusive". Both are forms of character assasination to prevent the woman from looking bad. In case of nice guys, its meant to remove to social stigmatization of being seen as shallow and maintain the status quo that women care about personality over looks. In case of her ex, its meant to absolve her of any responsibility of the relationship failing and to continue the status quo of men being abusers while women are victims. Both scenarios also help fulfill female role of trying to ostracize the person from social groups, which is often women's go to method to deal with people that are much stronger than them (aka men) that goes all the way back to prehistoric time.

krackedy · 2024-08-19T14:56:59+00:00

The first example isn't something I ever gear associated with nice guys.

The defining characteristic of a "nice guy" is a guy thinking he can earn sex by being "nice".

toasterchild · 2024-08-19T15:25:33+00:00

People constantly make assumptions about the motivations of others, just like you are doing with assuming the motivations of the women. Most of the time when you assume nefarious intentions about another person you are wrong. The whole Nice Guy thing was originally about guys who would lash out after being turned down but so many people never put the effort into getting the difference that it just became a big old pile of shit that doesn't really mean anything anymore. It mostly just seemed like a cutsy description for dealing covert narcissists.

People might get the wrong ideas about your actions, it happens all you can really do is move on. In your life some people will think you are great and others will think you are shitty. If you live your life scared of what others think you will probably end up a hermit. If someone makes a bad assumption realize that they are an idiot and move on.

SaBahRub · 2024-08-19T15:01:42+00:00

Nope, it’s when a man gets angry at that fact

Also, attraction is not just physical, as we all know.

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BananaB0yy · 2024-08-19T22:39:14+00:00

Agree, but there is more then physical attraction, thats way to simplistic. Aside from the edge cases -where the guy is very handsome or hideously ugly,- womens attraction is largely based on the way a guy carries himself (how he speaks, moves, talks etc). Just putting it all on looks alone is grade school understanding of female psychology, ridicousky off from the real world, bordering on incel blackpill thinking.

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2024-08-19T23:04:34+00:00

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Brilliant-Rough8239 · 2024-08-20T10:11:45+00:00

Maybe but in my experience a lot of Nice Guys are basically fucking snakes in the grass that try to use covert mating tactics and spew a whole load of ass kissing platitudes at a woman as if she’s supposed to give af

CarHungry · 2024-08-20T12:47:14+00:00

People generally take what they can get in the moment, if you're being rejected it simply means there's someone "better", either presently or potentially, "better" can mean anything it's almost pointless to even really care. It's also crazy to me that people act like women won't date ugly guys when you can prove that wrong just by walking into a grocery store.

The whole "nice guy" thing usually just implies you can be taken advantage of more easily than most and smarter women won't use that exact phrasing. I find when women can't use you and they don't want to date at all they just ghost straight up.

pinner52 · 2024-08-20T15:28:17+00:00

I will just say this. If a girl finds you attractive enough, she will let you get away with a lot of shit when she swouldn’t put up with 10% of it from another man

Clean_Woodpecker_974 · 2024-08-20T15:42:07+00:00

I noticed that "nice guys" are never Chris Hemsworth lookalikes.

Elliejq88 · 2024-08-20T22:13:11+00:00

Agree!... except I could have some attraction and I'm rejecting due to incompatibility.

Difficult_Falcon1022 · 2024-08-21T00:50:58+00:00

Nah. I've got an active situation like this.

He is a pleasant man, actually quite good looking. But I'm not attracted to his specific personality which therefore makes me unattracted physically.

He's trying to befriend me quite aggressively, is clearly into me and trying to nudge the situation in that way, but hasn't actually made a move.

The term "nice guy" isn't really meant to be a description. It's an iykyk, this is what women say when telling each other about a situation like the above. It's basically "I don't wish to make any allegations of impropriety but this situation is alarming to me on some level". The point is nice is so bland, you shouldn't have to describe someone as being nice.

Nose-Spare · 2024-08-21T03:36:57+00:00

Well in my experience as a man for #1, women don’t see this as a “nice guy” as they are much more upfront with their intentions, but for #2, an attraction can just develop over time so it isn’t necessarily a “nice guy”.

Weakandinsecure · 2024-08-21T18:05:54+00:00

I think the nice guy puts too much obligation on women, while they enjoy their 20's and he has completely the wrong image of how dating actually works. Instead of doing what everyone else does, he seems incapable of being a socially adept guy who. He subconsciously is looking for a excuse and he hides behind traditional values, religion, often also intense RP rage. The moment he comes in contact with trp he uses everything to facilitate his covert contract.

When everything for a nice guy could be solved by doing what everyone else does, (even when they live to say they don’t do it.) enjoy casual sex without focusing too much on one single person. Instead of adapting to this environment he instead decides to go either completely incel, MGTOW or MRA to support his giant cope.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-08-19T16:35:42+00:00

A “nice guy” is someone who reacts poorly to rejection. That’s it.

Let me be very clear: women reject guys for their physical appearance all the time, no different than when men reject women for their physical appearance. But it doesn’t matter why she rejects him. He’s a nice guy if he reacts poorly, regardless of her reason.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-08-19T18:52:19+00:00

Well, two things can be true. She is rejecting him because of looks, and he is interested in her because of looks. Neither is more or less “shallow” than the other, nor is either doing anything inherently wrong by being interested or not interested based on looks. That is, provided that he is not attempting to fake a whole close friendship in hopes of it turning into something more, and provided she isn’t being unnecessarily cruel about the rejection.

Women are reacting to the fact that men react poorly to them caring about looks. The “nice guy” trope is a trope for a reason, although it certainly doesn’t apply to all nice men who get rejected. This then unfortunately means that sometimes guys who really are nice get accused of being “nice guys.”

proffessorCouch · 2024-08-19T19:29:34+00:00

There can be more than one thing that makes a guy unattractive. Lack of physical attraction and being nice are both unattractive on men. You can get physically attractive though, with good nutrition and exercise. Even if you got an ugly mug, you can compensate with a hot bod. Not being nice is the hard part, cause we want to be nice people, but its just not attractive to women. So I try and save my niceness exclusively for men, and be an ass to the ladies. It usually works pretty well. I mean what else can ya do? Attraction isn’t a choice, and thats what they like i guess, lol. I think its cause in the natural world, kindness is weakness, and so women are instinctively attracted to assholes since asshole=tough, alpha male caveman, beats up other caveman, hahaha. Its like how we like boobs. Like whats so great about boobs? Two useless lumps of fat. But instinctively boobs=fertile woman to caveman brain.

James_Cruse · 2024-08-19T15:59:21+00:00

No it isn’t - a woman saying the guy is “Nice” a less confrontational & more pleasant way of saying:

“that guy is weak: not strong and not masculine, predictable & boring, too logical and doesn’t take risks & takes the safer easier route which leads to less success.”

Diamond-Breath · 2024-08-19T20:09:05+00:00

We want well-adjusted, attractive men.

Water is wet.

Fine_Video7691 · 2024-08-19T20:53:06+00:00

I suspect there are differences in the median female psychology that dissuades them from openly indicating rejection because of appearance. They may be afraid of a violent reaction.

It is incumbent on men, with the encouragement of peers, to learn and accept their place. Just go your own way, stop being a try hard, and bitterness won't help either. Or you can lower your standards, again and again; and work harder. And learn to eat the bitnerness of the occassional nuclear rejection.

G0dZylla · 2024-08-19T22:06:56+00:00

Yall should stop c0p1ng with the "nice guy always finish last" shit, a huge variety of guys with different personality from assholes to genuinely kind are getting laid and the reason is because their partner was physically attracted to them. In the eyes of women Personality is negotiable while physical attractiveness is NOT either you go above the looks threshold or it's over.

SandBrilliant2675 · 2024-08-19T22:56:34+00:00

Ok, so what would you all recommend saying if you want to reject someone (a man, in this example) because you are physically not attracted to them?

Just be straight up honest and say "No, I do not want to go on a date with you/date you because I am not attracted to you physically."?

Genuinely asking.

sikethatsmybird · 2024-08-20T04:09:41+00:00

Lol Jesus Christ, some people really are hopelessly daft.

Objective_Ad_6265 · 2024-08-20T05:53:41+00:00

A "nice guys" means that he only pretends to be nice and friendly to get sex and he get angry when denied.

Then there is a real nice guy I'm not attracted to. It means I acknowledge that he he a nice person, we are a good match on paper but I'm just not attracted to him, I just don't FEEL it.

I don't understand what's wrong about rejecting someome based on lack of attraction.

apresonly · 2024-08-19T19:49:34+00:00

sometimes he's just unattractive, sometimes he is unattractive and a "nice guy"

Title	The "nice guy" trope is a defense mechanism which women deploy to divert attention from the fact that they are rejecting a guy based on a lack of physical attraction
Author	Babyface_Bogart
Upvotes	340
Comments	485
Date	August 19, 2024 2:46 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ew3oen/the_nice_guy_trope_is_a_defense_mechanism_which/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-nice-guy-trope-is-a-defense-mechanism-which.1527745 https://theredarchive.com/post/1527745

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