Attractiveness matters to men so there’s no reason for them to be upset when attractiveness matters to women.

xxTheMagicBulleT · 2024-07-12T22:58:19+00:00

Ok let's play it the same way then.

Women care about money and status. So men should care about money and status too so.

Men should not spend time dealing with broke women. And women should not be upset about it

Lovers691 · 2024-07-12T15:26:17+00:00

Men aren't upset about looks mattering, what men even blackpillers are upset at is people downplaying looks and saying they don't matter in some cases. As for

it is not Mommy‘s job to teach you how to get your dick wet

I am a firm believer in not lying to your kids so if your son asks you how to get girl tell him the truth about looks, I mean people tell girls all the time that looks matter to get a man. As for effort into looks, looks are like 80% just your genes everything else is just minor improvement unless you are obese or disheveled

Funky_hobbo · 2024-07-12T21:00:02+00:00

I'm not upset at women wanting an attractive guy, I'm just pissed at the ones that say that "for me it doesn't matter" and then it does.

Yeah, it also applies to men.

TapZealousideal5974 · 2024-07-12T17:54:22+00:00

Literally all men could gym, diet and otherwise looksmaxx, and all it would do is just raise the bar.

Most men don't do this, which is why individual ascension is possible, but in a world where most women can easily pick out the top 5% to 20% of guys and ignore most of the rest thanks to technology, some men are just going to have to lose. Good bad or indifferent about it, that is the reality.

Plazmatron44 · 2024-07-13T09:51:43+00:00

Men aren't upset at attractive women having standards, they're upset at fat mediocre boring women demanding Henry Cavill.

raisedonthemoon · 2024-07-12T15:07:18+00:00

For a long time a woman's attraction to her husband was considered a non-issue; the idea that a woman deserves/would prefer to be attracted to (much less like) the man she marries or dates is a relatively new priority in terms of dating, I think we're just in a growing period/difficult transition right now. I hope and expect that in a few generations things will settle, men will begrudgingly accept having to prioritize "looks-maxxing" (the way women have done for centuries) a little more, and most people will be fine.

PMmeareasontolive · 2024-07-12T17:04:50+00:00

The disconnect is/was in the DEGREE to which attractiveness matters to women. This perhaps became a notable issue only when online dating became a thing. And even today you will hear blue pillers say "online dating isn't representative of real life!" like those are somehow completely different humans online. Online behavior, on and off dating apps, showed women in very different lights than gender stereotypes had previously depicted.

krackedy · 2024-07-12T15:08:26+00:00

I'm a millennial guy and I honestly don't understand how stupid a guy would have to be to think looks don't matter, regardless of what his mommy told him. You'd need to be mentally handicapped or blind. I really wish someone could explain.

Growing up I always heard women around me talking about cute boys they had crushes on, celebrity men they thought were hot, etc. I watched hot guys date a lot. I watched movies and TV where the hot guy was always desired.

Is it an autism thing that some guys just miss all of that?

Being kind, respectable etc is still decent advice if you want a quality partner.

If someone is choosing between multiple men they are attracted to, those traits matter. Traits like that can also make a guy appear more attractive (funny guys who make women laugh, exciting/interesting guys etc).

Capable_Army2705 · 2024-07-12T15:17:27+00:00

Just stop socializing men from a young age to treat getting girls as a status symbol. Way too many guys get caught up in their own validation with whether or not they get sexual success with girls. It should be based on your achievements, hobbies and on whether or not you're a good person.

Far-Entrepreneur6368 · 2024-07-12T19:10:31+00:00

I think its the fact that men have a more egalitarian distribution of what we find attractive: the average man finds the objectively average woman average, whereas the average woman finds 80% of men below average lookswise.

Yuo_cna_Raed_Tihs · 2024-07-12T22:24:33+00:00

The specific issues people have are

Womens physical preferences are encouraged to be vocalised whereas mens aren't. it's totally okay for a woman to loudly proclaim she wants guys 6ft+, to use short as an insult etc, whereas men aren't allowed to do the same.
The behaviours men (and boys) are told to help get them laid don't actually work lol. it's not just from their mom, but the most prominent source of useful advice is from PUA communities. And most of their advice sucks lol.
The big issue would be the 80-20, or at least the perception that it exists. Men complain that women have high standards for what is considered physically attractive. See, online dating app studies. Importantly, in so far as beauty standards are socially constructed and arbitrary, it doesn't matter if women put more effort into their appearance or not

Toxic_LigmaMale · 2024-07-12T17:58:51+00:00

The problem here is that way more men find women attractive than the other way around. Plus there are more factors to what women consider “attractive”, and the gap between the barrier for entry, and their ideal man.

Another whole separate issue is that women care more about things you simply can’t change. A lot of men will date a women with a “meh” face if she has a really good body. Women usually won’t. Men have a height preference. But it’s usually that you’re average and not extremely short or tall. To anyone commenting, don’t say “weight”, you can always do something about your weight.

In our younger years, we’re also constantly lied to about what women find attractive. Mostly socially, but sometimes physically. Women’s attraction to appearances can also waiver based on behavior.

EveningEveryman · 2024-07-12T23:35:12+00:00

This is someone trying to justify their greed since money matters to everyone. No, not every single woman can have someone extremely attractive.

Remarkable_Rough_89 · 2024-07-13T05:55:36+00:00

Yea but woman think 90 percent of guys are below average, men think about 30 percent are below average

So context matt

izzzy12k · 2024-07-12T15:46:31+00:00

I think a lot of this comes from the double standards that do in fact exist.

For example, body positivity is only geared and acknowledged by and for women.

So, men who put in the effort and get themselves up to par physically can be a lil upset if the best they can attract is women who are not in shape at all or in many cases seen as even obese. Primarily cause that man's height isn't close to 6ft.

biscuitcatapult · 2024-07-12T14:54:09+00:00

Of course attractiveness matters. The issue is that most people overestimate their appearance, and believe their “looks-match” is much higher than it actually is.

qwertyuduyu321 · 2024-07-12T15:23:42+00:00

Attractiveness matters to men so there’s no reason for them to be upset when attractiveness matters to women.

Exactly. I mean this is common sense.

It matters to all of us and those who can (more often than not women) are as picky about it as they can realistically afford to be. Men (the minority who can) behave the VERY SAME WAY.

lolthankstinder · 2024-07-12T18:05:42+00:00

Suppose two companies are strategizing how to filter apples. Consumers like apples that are big and/or taste good. Each company uses machinery that can filter by size, then determine taste quality.

Company A decides to have a strict filter based on apple size. However, they set the filter threshold low so that many apples still make it through to the more in-depth taste quality stage despite the strictness of the initial filter.

Company B, on the other hand, decides to use a high size filter that many apples do not pass, but, some apples below the filter may be let through if they seem decent and go onto the deeper taste quality stage.

B’s size filter seems “less shallow” because it lets some smaller apples through. However, that assessment ignores the fact that B’s filter threshold is also higher and most apples cannot pass it.

In this example, men are companyA and women are companyB. Attractiveness definitely matters to men, but their thresholds are much much more attainable for women. If a woman just works out and eats healthy she will be attractive to a lot of men. Meanwhile, women sort of have to care about other things because they tend to find most guys “medium ugly”. Women already care about attractiveness just as much as men, it just manifests as a different kind of high but fuzzy filter.

Now imagine other companies are grabbing apples as well so the biggest and tastiest apples may already be taken. If companyB aka women turn their high filter to strict, they are likely to end up with a bunch of big bad apples. CompanyB exclaims “all apples are bad!” However, there were many great tasting apples remaining, they were just a little bit below company B’s high filter. This phenomenon is what men get upset about. We’re not bad apples, you just think too highly of yourself and keep filtering for “single for a reason” hot guys that will only ever be into you for something short term and are single… for a reason.

Hi-Road · 2024-07-12T19:47:05+00:00

I wish y’all were half as hard on yourselves as you are with these dudes.. this is like the eighth time this been posted

NeatEngineer5623 · 2024-07-12T22:24:33+00:00

Please compare what men nitpick and what women nitpick. I'll wait.

-Gravebloom- · 2024-07-13T00:41:34+00:00

Low effort rage bait as usual

HossNameOfJimBob · 2024-07-12T22:33:53+00:00

They aren’t upset that it matters. They are upset at women for chasing dudes. Chasing the top 20% and ignoring everyone else is a recipe for disaster for average women. Then when you inevitably get pumped and dumped it’s “all men are horrible”.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-07-12T15:31:45+00:00

I dont find anything wrong with what my mother taught me.

I dont know why people are suddenly hating on their mothers.

I don't understand what they want their mothers to tell them. My mother told me to not run behind girls, period. She literally told me there is a time for everything.

And that's exactly what I see most men doing throughout their teen years. Like what do people want. Dont think about your career and become a pro spor star to get the girls?

Looks are still more dependent on exoressions than anything. No mother will tell their sons anything that will be detrimental to their looks like don't wash your face, or don't shave for a year straight.

My mother literally forced me to trim my beard, keep my hair clean and keep good hygiene when my depression was at the worst phase.

Not everyone is born looking like Brad Pitt, what are people going to do about it by being angry?

Also, what is there to learn in all this. Basic manners, etc is all people need.

Flirting is just being funny, you can't learn to flirt, unless the other person shares your sense of humor, it is just putting up a show which you will be bored of after a few times. Unless transactional one night stands is all you need.

What do even 'hot guy traits' mean? Do you want to chew a grass stem and carry a colt magnum in your hand while on the streets like Clint Eastwood? Or become a vampire? become a son of House Stark and carry a longsword and rode horses in the street? Look like Thor? You know they have hollywood nutritionists, doctors and trainers who are paid millions right?

Like what do you want?

TopEntertainment4781 · 2024-07-12T15:28:26+00:00

Obviously looks matter. I think what a lot of guys take issue with is they don’t know how to attract women with their behavior. And I believe it is a fair gripe that men these days were raised on certain lessons that go against what works in dating.

LovesGettingRandomPm · 2024-07-12T19:33:56+00:00

Its mommies job to care about you, that means caring about your success. She also benefits from it because I bet she'd rather have grandchildren visit her when she's older than not. I'm not saying she should hold your hand just show you how to be a man that women want. Some mothers only care about making their boy into a cute little people pleaser because that's what makes all the other parents compliment you. That's how I grew up. I frequently had to hear about how I'm such a nice boy and how I'm so polite but now this adult life has got me weak and easy to take advantage of. Women notice it straight away and they don't want you unless they're desperate, and I can say this for certain because I've figured it out first hand that the moment I behave more cocky I get more attention and they actually see me as a potential partner. I don't like doing it since its not me but I really feel like I have to. Being nice never works out, I suspect its because they think I wouldn't be able to protect them but its far from me to assume I know what's in their heads. Either way I don't think its fair when your parents make you into something that isn't advantageous to you.

caption291 · 2024-07-12T21:12:20+00:00

Understanding nuance is understanding that men aren't upset women care about attractiveness at all or specifically that his mother didn't tell him exactly how to get his dick wet.

throwaway164_3 · 2024-07-12T14:50:38+00:00

If average men could fuck hot women with the same ease that average women fuck hot men, this subreddit wouldn’t exist lol

That difference in ease of access to sex is what most men are bitter about haha.

They think women are extremely privileged in just how EASY the average woman has it when it comes to sex, relationships and dating. Compared to the average man, she has to put in way less effort

boom-wham-slam · 2024-07-12T15:35:10+00:00

Looks matter. They aren't everything.

Sorry I know this isn't popular but acting like a fucking man is the most important overall skill in dealing with women. Maybe in a night club it matters less but in terms of hookups relationships sex everything. It is number 1.

An ugly ass king is powerful, capable, can protect and provide... he doesn't bow to anyone. You can whine and cry and say it's not fair because he has money... like it's some totally separate concept to attraction (it's not)... and women will line up for that king even though he's got a huge nose and weird chin. You know this is true, I know this is true. He doesn't have to give a girl a million bucks to be with him... she will simply be with him.

2024-07-12T16:27:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

purplish_possum · 2024-07-12T16:55:56+00:00

Perhaps women should stop their virtue signaling then.

Embarrassed-Tune9038 · 2024-07-12T15:28:40+00:00

The problem is men are honest in what we want, women yell and scream at it and often times will give men the illusion that it doesn't matter to women therefore it shouldn't matter to men, which is a lie that women tell to ease their burden of performance.

You even have women making moral arguments against what men find attractive, hence all the arguments about men pursuing younger being based in a desire to have a woman you can more easily manipulate.

MrSaturn33 · 2024-07-12T15:38:06+00:00

Attractiveness matters to men so there’s no reason for them to be upset when attractiveness matters to women.

It's not about being "upset" or expecting women not to have standards of attractiveness.

It's just about pointing out the extent to which observing these obvious facts about the dynamics and pointing them out is forbidden in polite society. There is a reason we spend time talking about it on the internet: for many of us it is the only place to, or the only place we can to this extent.

The standards men and women are put under are not the same, so you are propounding a false equivalency. It's completely in women's favor. Women set and decide the standards. Men settle. Women don't.

This goes back to all the bitter men that claimed that they were lied to by their mom about how to get a girl to fuck him when they were children. First of all, it is not Mommy‘s job to teach you how to get your dick wet

We can call out and criticize the bluepill without acting like anyone owes us anything. Your insane going on about our mothers is just another version of "women don't owe you anything." Just stop stating the obvious to men as if they need to hear it and don't already know it, merely for being more willing to be generally honest about everything than you are. This is insufferable to an intolerable extent.

Lying to yourself and not understanding nuance does not mean other people lied to you.

As if a rejection of the bluepill is tantamount to not understanding "nuance." It's people who think like you who can't think with nuance and who insist on defending the lies of society. Yes, we were lied to. Everyone is lied to about the way things are. Without the internet, I wouldn't have the understanding I'm able to now. You're completely wrong and inverted.

kcmiz24 · 2024-07-12T16:04:41+00:00

It obviously is Mommy and Daddy's job to tell their children how to successfully have relationships with the opposite sex.

OkProfessional9405 · 2024-07-12T16:44:17+00:00

Attractiveness matters to men so there’s no reason for them to be upset when attractiveness matters to women.

I think what is shocking is that attractiveness seems to matter more to women and women rate the majority of men unattractive.

Men have always been driven by looks, but men find 60% of women at least somewhat attractive. That means a woman who's a 4 has guys saying she's alright.

Women see a guy who's and 8 and consider him mid.

So it's not that women find looks important it's that they seem to find it absurdly important. Basically women are several times more shallow then men when it comes to looks.

untilfurthernotic3 · 2024-07-12T17:23:12+00:00

Men are attracted to most women, women think most men are below average. The majority of things that women find attractive in men are genetic and fall in a narrow set of constraints, while men are more varied in their standards. Women also operate on their highest setting. They get chad to pump and dump them once and think they’re entitled to his commitment, and getting with any guy below Chad is “settling.” Lastly, men are upset about the gaslighting. Look at any short/unattractive dude complaining about their looks, even without any sort of misogyny whatsoever. They will get told that it’s their personality, their lack of showers, that sex doesn’t matter, that they’re not entitled to sex, etc.

Upset_Material_3372 · 2024-07-12T18:45:05+00:00

The difference is that while men as a group can be attracted to literally every woman, women as a group can only be attracted to few men, always leaving some men out regardless what they do.

moonroots64 · 2024-07-12T19:20:39+00:00

Women are bitter about this too.

This goes back to all the bitter men that claimed that they were lied to by their mom about how to get a girl to fuck him when they were children. First of all, it is not Mommy‘s job to teach you how to get your dick wet, especially when you weren’t at the age to be trying to do that. A woman telling her little boy to be nice and respectful to get a girlfriend is fine advice. As the boy gets older, he should be able to figure out on his own that there’s more to being then just being nice and respectful. After all, unless asexual, he also doesn’t wanna get with a woman just because she’s kind and respectful to him. If anything, he just wishes women didn’t care about looks so he can put less effort into his looks.

Lying to yourself and not understanding nunance does not mean other people lied to you.

You are stereotyping all men, while simultaneously making the same mistake you are complaining about.

BandemicBuffering · 2024-07-12T18:45:10+00:00

Then we need to stop being told that other things override attractiveness

Sufficient_Radio_109 · 2024-07-12T15:50:44+00:00

First of all, it is not Mommy‘s job to teach you how to get your dick wet

Wrong!

As a parent it is your moral duty to give your child every possible advantage over the competition, to prepare them in any way to can for a life of success, both social and reproductive. To argue otherwise goes against every imperative evolution has bequathed us.

I'm not arguing here that every person should be a parent (though they should!) but if you do make that choice, acknowledging the full extent of the responsabilities that this entails is necessary to do the job well.

DoubleFistBishh · 2024-07-12T15:34:48+00:00

There's also this weird thing here where guys think if you're a physically attractive man you must be this horrible beast with no other redeemable qualities. Then if you're physically unattractive you're basically Mr Rogers lol.

Like there's literally no in between. Very strange way to view other people.

cOmE-cRawLing_Faster · 2024-07-12T16:11:53+00:00

It's being unrealistic is the complaint

philseven12 · 2024-07-12T15:37:37+00:00

Here she go again. What dude is relying on they momma to teach them how to flip a chick? That's nasty work right there.

The nuance is you act sweet n accommodating when the dude looks one way.

And yall get acute ick syndrome when the dude doesn't match the fantasy you have in your mind

These women need to start taking they vitamins and immuno support. Running around catching the ick back to back

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2024-07-12T15:46:38+00:00

Who made the argument that attractiveness does not matter for men?

What men are complaining about is women's standards increasing due to the constant attention they receive from men. This is why they use terms like "hoeflation".

The data also supports women being more selective and a small subset of men receiving most of the attention from the opposite sex.

DarayRaven · 2024-07-12T15:08:15+00:00

A woman telling her little boy to be nice and respectful to get a girlfriend is fine advice. As the boy gets older, he should be able to figure out on his own that there’s more to being then just being nice and respectful.

Why would she even give him advice in the first place ?

Love my mom but everytime she tried having the talk l immediately would zone out, same with my dad since it was just bluepill/tradcon stuff on how to get a wife

AlmostKindaGreat · 2024-07-12T16:39:12+00:00

I was clueless about this for much of my life, but I was thrilled when I realized that women care so much about looks. At least you have objective standards to work toward. You can know roughly what your level is at any time and when you've realized your full potential.

Looksmaxxing is by far the easiest part of developing attraction as a man. Losing 30lbs is hard but so much easier than developing charm, gaining status in your community, and attaining unflappable confidence.

Downtown_Cat_1173 · 2024-07-12T15:11:49+00:00

Also, people who think personality doesn’t matter are people who have no personality. There are lots of nice, respectful people I wouldn’t sleep with because they’re boring or think I’m weird

LevelCaterpillar1830 · 2024-07-12T14:52:45+00:00

Correct.

However, there could always be more honesty involved in the first place. Men often have to undo years and years of gaslighting from boomer mentalities drilled into them by adults, which wastes a lot of time and effort that could have been avoided.

"No one is entitled to anything and you should make efforts to be more attractive" is objectively correct and useful advice, and should be given as early as possible, instead of the red herrings and lies often fed to men in their younger years.

SKY_ACTIV3 · 2024-07-12T23:04:38+00:00

To me it was the degree and severity of male beauty standards that shocked me. I’ve taken my appearance seriously from a pretty early age (early high school), but it’s taken me far longer to really hone in on the areas that women seem to care about most. Even longer to accept that some of those are completely outside of my control, since those tend to be the most taboo to discuss.

These conversations on male beauty and attractiveness are still largely relegated to dingy corners of the internet. Any truth that isn’t digestible for a middle schooler has to be absolutely squeezed out of someone, and by that point everyone involved is frustrated.

DBEternal · 2024-07-13T04:00:06+00:00

women tell their sons looks don't matter because they want to soften the blow of their sons being incels. they want their sons to be harmless and neutered because women instinctively know if a son is going to be a sexual failure. this the reason behind the western trend of men being extremely feminine in nature. it's basically their mothers priming them early to be non-intrusive background dressing for Chads.

the amount of stress a woman has to deal with when her son is undesirable is unspoken. its a lot easier to just lie to him and more accurately neuter him by saying stuff like "women don't care about looks" to string him on as long as they can.

SaBahRub · 2024-07-12T15:17:06+00:00

There is a reason — not getting what they want

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Warm_Position_8889 · 2024-07-13T03:24:17+00:00

It's about money. Get real.

hongsta2285 · 2024-07-13T14:23:01+00:00

Lol make sure u be nice

Have awesome personality

Women can f who they want just don't expect the next guy to pay for the sins of the past trash she chose and don't expect the next man to pay higher than what the first man offered aka zero or barely f all.

See the question is not accepting this or that.

Your explanation is thinking it's relative.

Which it ain't.

If all women want to sleep with that man it's high natural selection

If Everyman takes a dump on the town bicycle it doesn't make her highly sought after

We are not the same and have different values

Men look for women with lower body counts because it's less likely she will cheat and not show up on the maury show you are not the father

Women can do wtf they like be that side piece to that top 20% er majority of them won't have the top 20% to settle for them because the women out number those men atleast 4 to 1 aka 3 miss out hit the wall and think they deserve a 10 when the 8 to 10 doesn't even remember her name 🤣🤣🤣 irrelevant and insignificant.

Ah it's all great fun till the merry go round stops then it's not fun for a certain people's then the table flips and they don't like it. Then we are told u should like old / no eggs and go against a man biological imperative to have breed lol wtf clown world we live in magical time to be alive

abaxeron · 2024-07-14T20:39:08+00:00

Age, N-count, STIs, and children from previous relationships matter to women, so there's no reason for them to be upset when they matter to men. It's not Daddy's job to teach you that you cannot realistically go through 4 anti-STI chemos leaving your three kids from different fathers to grandma and your womb completely ruined, and expect to be swept off your feet by a vaguely-Spanish-looking multimillionaire heir, while being "38 years young". It's not daddy's job to teach you how to get your pussy stuffed with legitimate heirs of your legal husband, especially when you weren't at the age to be trying to do that.

A straw for a straw.

Proudvow · 2024-07-15T11:03:54+00:00

After all, unless asexual, he also doesn’t wanna get with a woman just because she’s kind and respectful to him.

You don't know how desperate men work.

Illustrious-Red-8 · 2024-07-16T22:07:41+00:00

OP it's not about men being upset for women's preference for shallow attraction, it's about how unrealistic those preferences are.

Any man who complains about women not wanting to date men aren't broke is a a man who's a whiner. But it's totally reasonable for critique a specific female population's preference for six figure earning men, especially when those women aren't earning that much but for some reason demand it on the men they consider their equals.

leosandlattes · 2024-07-13T01:04:39+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-07-12T17:10:04+00:00

They know, they just don’t like it. This is a way for them to cope with being unattractive.

Warm_Position_8889 · 2024-07-13T03:23:14+00:00

Don't worry about attracting women Attract yourself men by working out and getting rich, spent time with your parents.

As we get old and take care of ourselves. We become more attractive like wine. Women has 7 years only. Once 30. They go South and become more material. Wish you the best gentlemen

Title	Attractiveness matters to men so there’s no reason for them to be upset when attractiveness matters to women.
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	101
Comments	474
Date	July 12, 2024 2:42 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1e1jdhv/attractiveness_matters_to_men_so_theres_no_reason/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/attractiveness-matters-to-men-so-theres-no-reason.1524078 https://theredarchive.com/post/1524078

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