Why is being considered “Husband material” better than being fwb material

Luciansleep · 2021-09-23T22:50:53+00:00

I'm normally called “husband material” by my women friends. I always asked what that meant and they all said that “it means you want to spend the...

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Because women and men seem to have different wants and project them to each other

Women (who are regularly objectified and generally hate being used as a living fleshlight) like being relationship/ wife material. Because being "courted" and liked for more than just their vagina and body is considered much better than just being fuck material

Men on the other hand seem to consistently believe that a woman's "best" is being the person they want to sleep with immediately and without effort. From what ppd says, that woman can be a great wife and support person but if she had sex with another guy earlier than you at any point in her life she has not given you her "best".

Therefore to women - being wife material is better than being fuck material. Being a living fleshlight is an insult.

And to men - the guy who gets sex easier (Fwb material) is better than being husband material. Being valued for how good you are in bed is great.

Women haven't realised that to men being husband material but not fuck boy material is not a compliment.

[–]kyle_fall 69 points70 points71 points 4 years ago* (30 children) | Copy Link

Men on the other hand seem to consistently believe that a woman's "best" is being the person they want to sleep with immediately and without effort. From what ppd says, that woman can be a great wife and support person but if she had sex with another guy earlier than you at any point in her life she has not given you her "best".

That's definitely a strawman. I don't think most men mind that a woman has fucked other men in her past, they get bothered when it comes out that she's not particularly attracted to him but she loves the safety net and emotional support that he provides her(what I assume most people think about when they hear husband material.)

Your earlier point is great though. For women the shitty position is being good enough to fuck but not to date. For men the shitty position is being good enough to provide emotional and financial support but not being really physically attractive to women.

That's why both sexes have to self-improve in different ways to really find fulfillment in the current dating market.

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Women haven't realized that to men being husband material but not fuck boy material is not a compliment."

This is because the common perception is that women validate the fuckboy with sex and children and adoration while exploiting the husband's resources to support the fuckboy's kids. The fuckboy in this picture is conquering double here. Not only did he bag the girl he's getting another chump to do the work that comes after. No man wants to be the husband. This is why sleazy PUA nonsense is a business right now because men do not want to be the beta male more than they want to be the alpha male.

So it's not about being alpha, most men are just not interested in that role, it's all about not being the beta. The easiest way to not be a beta while not putting in the effort to be an alpha - and still get alpha results - is to be a plain and simple asshole; this is because women validate that behavior in the alpha and the fuckboys alike. Men are going to focus on what works.

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Either way - I'd rather stay single than date another lukewarm woman like my ex near the end

what I am about to say, is not meant as an insult to you, so forgive me if that is how it seems; however most women, prefer if more men did that exact thing. If you aren't THAT into me, DON'T GET INTO A RELATIONSHIP WITH ME. If I am not fulfilling your wants and needs, don't start a relationship with me.

Now, there are women who date men because they aren't secure in being alone. I am not denying that. However, through observing my male and female friends, as well as my own experiences....it seems more common that men tend to get into relationships with women who they arent THAT into. They think she's pretty or hot- they like that they get sex on a regular basis, they like that she might cook, or clean or be their stand-in mother figure or therapist. But they dont necessarily feel that emotional connection.

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honestly feel like a lot of girls I know would want to do things like this. But they’re scared because the man doesn’t take them seriously and just wants to sleep with them. So it’s like “why should i try so hard to do this if he will just leave if I don’t want to sleep with him”

So here's the deal. You have to ensure that the guy isn't in it for sex only first if that's what you're worried about.

In my particular situation she didn't actually ensure that, because we did fuck the first time we met (last Sunday). But she went out on a limb and that's ALSO hot. As is making a ton of effort. Even though I'm moving im genuinely considering trying to actually date her. The effort is so refreshing. So, so refreshing. I don't think girls really get how entitled some bitches can get. So just being nice and putting in clear effort can put you head and shoulders above the rest, assuming you're already fit & have a nice face

[–]vial_of_music2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thankfully I’m not in the current dating scene, and I do appreciate your response. I agree that just giving effort to something will go a long ways, especially when the other person is receptive! I love to cook for my SO, and i love seeing his reactions when he eats the food.

But the thing is.. just so many guys lie. That’s when I found out RP was a thing, it was like a light bulb. All the manipulation, the mind games that I had witness my friends go through.. it’s enough to scare many girls! Then you come to reddit and see there’s an entire guide on how to lie to girls just to sleep with them. There is a reason girls think “waiting” is better because they don’t want to be seen as “easy” or just sleep with someone and be ghosted. It’s a bad game played on both sides, when truly I believe both sides would love to sit down for a home cooked meal together. They do want to put in the effort, but its hard to gauge when someone is going to say all the right things then split right after the deed is done.

[–]ChibsFilipTelfordd2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Unfortunately, humans suck. I recently went through emotional infidelity that only exacerbated the trust issues that i have had since some family things occurred around a decade ago plus 98%tile in big5 trait neuroticism. RP men exist. FDS women exist. But there's really not any way to accurately or effectively weed them out without weeding out a large portion of good partners simultaneously. In my situation it's (my coping mechanism) is simply being closed off emotionally and resolving not to get married or anything, but just date with the intention of spending tons of time together.

I think girls might have a distinct advantage if a man splitting after they did the deed doesn't negatively impact them emotionally. I.e. be okay with casual sex and not be trashed by being pumped and dumped.

I know that some women temperamentally cannot. But those who can, do.

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[–]Superfluous_ToastSex is only bad when she's not having it with you 20 points21 points22 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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Which is ridiculous

Something I think it's worth keeping in mind in these discussions is that not everyone of your own gender is like yourself.

It makes sense that men would have strategies to protect themselves from situations where they're ending up in dead bedroom. Times when their partner doesn't actually want to have sex with them. Browsing the deadbedroom subreddit you can see plenty of these situations arising. I think it's reasonable to want to avoid that.

As a more severe example. Even though most men aren't abusive and I'm not abusive. I don't have any issues with women talking about abusive men and developing strategies to spot and avoid them.

What men are doing is trying to spot situations where women are just using them for money or security and don't actually want them sexually.

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The husband material guy needs to put in more effort because he is choosen not only for sexual stimulation, but for untold amount of qualities needed in a stable partner.

It's not fair to compare whether the fuckboy has it easier based on effort. They are being selected for different set of tasks.

Fuckboy: sex

Husband material: sex + 567 other things

It just turns out that the husband material guy gets buthurt if other men have/could get his potential wife with little to no effort. Because in his mind a wife is not supposed to want sex for the sake sex.

However, just logically speaking, why would a woman require more effort from a guy she is expecting less from?

It's the guys choice to be in any of these roles. If he wants to avoid being immediately perceived as a husband material he can do fuckboy stuff - like say you only want to fuck her and don't want anything serious.

You'll be taken of the husband material list. Why don't the butthurt guys do it? They are afraid to fail as a fuckboy.

[–]SympathyIndependent85 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tickledpic2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Why is the husband material guy not allowed to want to do the fuckboy stuff as well as the husband stuff?

He is allowed. But he doesn't want to because "she is a wife material not a slut". The wife would greatly appreciate it. She wants to be railed.

Honestly, the more empathetic gender is really lacking any empathy here.

I'm male. I don't empathetize at all.

It's the men who set the tone sexually. If you drop the belief that "good girls are pure and sluts are for the streets" you'll be able to be sexually exciting to both.

You can choose to be very sexually forward, bold, daring, wild, etc with her. It's totally in your control. And she desires it.

The perfect husband material is someone who is a great and stable partner and fucks her really well too. But most of the time it's like wanting your cake and eating it too.

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[–]tickledpic1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

For a guy, you seem to not understand the male perspective at all.

No. I don't understand judgmental mens perspective.

they want the wife material girl to be a slut for them.

Nope. Madonna whore complex is originally about guys not being able to getting it hard for their wifes and having their fun with prostitutes (when it was way more common).

Instead, many get the opposite.

They get the opposite because of THEM.

Don't you always hear "women are passive/reactive"? What you put in is what you get out.

Fuckboys come with that sexual wildness strong, so that's what they get in return. If you never put in sexual wildness in your dynamic, why do you expect it from her?

Don't want to be a fuckboy, but be a husband material who gets her sluty side? Come with stability AND sexual wildness.

This shit is basic logic!

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That's not it. We aren't talking about leaving or staying. This whole thread is discussing being husband material or FWB material, and you started talking about the female equivalent. We're discussing the fact that men and women both determine what the opposite sex is useful for. You fully agreed that some men are considered marriage material and some are considered fwb material and then agreed on what each on is defined as, but you're now pretending like there's no such thing as a widely agreed upon equivalent but reversed and I'm making it clear to you that yes, some women are considered relationship material and marriage material and there are widely accepted reasons for this and some aren't. And just because they aren't relationship material does not mean they're viewed as sex objects. But if a guy considers you not relationship material, it's time for some introspection because it's not his decision he made. It's his his conclusion base on who you are...

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I mean I struggle why men think "I want to spend the rest of my life with you" is worse than "I want to fuck you for a night".

Because marriage is a fuckton of work, frequently quite boring and sometimes miserable, with high points of only nebulous appeal and often involves being dragged into an utterly immasculating lifestyle, as relationship and family duties come ahead of doing anything men generally actually enjoy. Fuckboys meanwhile get to have fun, get to be treated like actual men and don't have to put in a fuckton of effort to maintain a relationship. Without the element of "I love this person" (which in evaluating options in a vacuum is obviously not present), it's not fucking hard to see why "work your ass off for nebulous reward that comes at cost to your pride" is less appealing than "don't work your ass off to get quick thrills that bolster the ego."

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Here is the problem. I will translate your quotes into characteristics of the relationship.

"You are attractive" = sex early and often
"You have a great personality" = partnership, emotional support
"Our lifestyles and goals are compatible" = shared values, build life together

In your description, you would have sex with both the fuckboi and the husband early and often, but the husband would also get emotional support, a best friend, a life partner, etc.

In many real-world situations, the husband does not have sex early and often. If anything he has to wait because he's being vetted (which guys might interpret as being sized up for their resources).

I will assume that this hypothetical marriage actually has emotional support, friendship, shared values, etc. What this marriage is saying is, "the fuckbois were attractive, you aren't, but you have a great personality and our lifestyles are compatible."

You are within your rights to walk away from a guy who is terrified of the above statement, but I think the terror is justified.

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Replace sex with "giving you a fun/comfortable lifestyle." Imagine if men didn't move you into their home until years after you started dating. Imagine if men didn't take you on lavish dates (e.g., traveling to fun destinations) until after a few months. imagine you knew that he moved younger/hotter women into his house only after a few dates or if he took younger/hotter women on lavish trips within the first month. You'd wonder if this man really desired you or if he was only giving you the bare minimum to keep your attention. You'd have a sense of dread wondering if this man was going to leave you for the next young/hot girl he met.

That's the same feeling men get when they know their current partner slept with men on the first date whereas she slept with him after some amount of time (on the order of weeks).

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[–]fakingandnotmakingit-1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But what if you engaged in kinky sex (anal, BDSM, etc) with your ex but you have been telling your husband you are not interested in exploring even though he would like to?

Do you mean kinky sex that I ended up not enjoying and therefore uninterested to explore any further? If that's the issue he can leave.

What if your husband waited three months but you came over to your fuckboi's house straight from Tinder?

He's only allowed to complain about that if he has never once desire or participated in casual sex himself. Anything else is hypocritical.

But if they're worried because their gf decided to have a drunken one night stand once or twice 20 years ago then yeah, I'd find them laughable.

And look I'm not saying they're not allowed to feel bad about it. I just personally filter out people who's attitude to sex matches mine. They can actively filter out people the same way.

Like I get it. Some things are deal breakers. I wouldn't sleep with someone whos been in a gangbang

[–]empresa_josefina9 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Of course everyone is allowed to filter on whatever they'd like, but if women started telling their husbands "I love you and you are so much better than the fuckbois, that's why I gave them BJs on command but only once a year for you", there would be a wave of breakups. This issue might be the most common insecurity in men and it underpins half the debates on PPD (N count? betabuxx? dead bedrooms?) I am curious whether you have shared your more libertine sexual past with a partner before, how did they react?

Personally I don't want to date a chaste/inexperienced woman, so I hope that my partners have had some romps and I ask them about it and laugh. That means you would date me, but the rest of my male friends would be seriously upset to find out the woman they spent months courting used to go over to Chad's house after a "you up?" text.

[–]fakingandnotmakingit0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I love you and you are so much better than the fuckbois, that's why I gave them BJs on command but only once a year for you",

That seems a bit of an extreme example but sure I guess

I'm always open about what I've done with my partners. It's part of how I filter out if we're compatible with each other sexually.

I've had two previous relationships. One was in high school and obviously we didn't have sex for ages because hey virgins! The other at university. Probably had sex , after maybe date 2?? Can't remember. But we hung around each other for like 3 - 4 months so I knew him relatively well by then.

My husband and I met at the later stages of university. We met at a party of a mutual friend. Hung around each other for a while before we went out on official dates. I guess it took us maybe 3 or so months to have sex, but it was maybe officially date 3??? Or 4???

And I've had one drunken one night stand because I was on a rebound from my high-school relationship ending. Besides yolo.

My husband has a relatively similar past. I think a couple of ltrs, a str and then one casual? (I think it was a casual than he wanted to turn into more but idk and idc) something like that. Im not too clear on the details

For me again it's more about compatibility than it is about an actual number.

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]DjangoUBlackBastard1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

More the fact that that particular situation I wouldn't feel bad or "not receiving a man's best" because I'm not an insecure moron.

So yes you would call a woman insecure for having sex with a man for 3 months because he was promising them he'd date them once he felt comfortable with it? Because I'm really not clear on exactly if that's what you mean by this response.

Relationships with insecure morons who panic about shit that happened in their partners past sounds like a recepie for disaste

Considering people use other people it's worth seeing how someone treats you vs how they treat other people, including their exes. If someone is mean to you and nice to literally everyone else that's a bad sign. Same if they're mean to everyone else and nice to you. Past behavior can help predict future behavior. It's why I'm guessing you wouldn't swoon over an ex felon who just got out.

[–]fakingandnotmakingit1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So yes you would call a woman insecure for having sex with a man for 3 months because he was promising them he'd date them once he felt comfortable with it? Because I'm really not clear on exactly if that's what you mean by this response.

Insecure and stupid yes

Considering people use other people it's worth seeing how someone treats you vs how they treat other people, including their exes. If someone is mean to you and nice to literally everyone else that's a bad sign. Same if they're mean to everyone else and nice to you. Past behavior can help predict future behavior. It's why I'm guessing you wouldn't swoon over an ex felon who just got out.

Sure. But panicking over how quickly someone had sex with you (or stuff along that vein) sounds stupid.

"Yeah they have track record of being a supportive partner, a good friend and their exes broke up with them amicably. But she had sex with someone after the first date 20 years ago!!!! So now i feel insecure in our otherwise great relationship."

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Perseus_the_BoldMGTOW 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Perseus_the_BoldMGTOW 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Some men can find happiness in the oddest places. For example: some men who come of age in prison become recidivists because they learn to be happier as prisoners, the free world gives them depression and anxiety.

My father and my uncles and cousins and other relatives are happilymarried, each one with a beautiful wife who adores them, with beautifulkids who worship them, and everything about their lives is made betterfor being married.

I believe you may be embellishing the truth a bit here in order to sell us on the idea of marriage but even if that is what an ideal marriage looks like the point here is that it is only that: an ideal. This is not the case for every man. You may as well speak about a CEO Billionaire uncle. The point is that for the vast majority of men this will never be their reality no matter how hard they work at it to make it come true. It's just not going to happen, that's reality.

Men deluding themselves into chasing an idealistic life with a woman are whom we call "Blue Pilled" because they are living in a dream chasing an illusion. Exceptions do not prove the rule I'm afraid. Good for your uncles to have won the lottery, but playing those odds is a bad idea for the rest of the men on the planet.

Also let me bring you up to speed: MGTOW are not interested in marriage. We are anti-Marriage, we are not interested in dating and not interested in relationships. MGTOW are those men who have totally given up on women - for millions of individual reasons - and choose to walk away from the negotiation table because there is just nothing more that can be said.

And you are correct: We offer nothing to women; because we are not interested. Our goal is to detach ourselves from women and to unlearn all of our former attractions and affections for them because it is unhealthy to continue to crave something that isn't real and will never be. Living in dreams is not good.

And hey! We are not weirdos lol We are sane men making a sane choice. If we know we cannot be happy with women what is the point in making both ourselves and women miserable? Why not sever relations and go our own way? That way we leave women alone, and we go off with our own lives to figure it all out for ourselves by ourselves.

Worms and rats with the ability to speak and sip down on watered down beer do not make a good husband."

I agree, and also: Insects that eat the male alive do not make good wives.

[–]fakingandnotmakingit -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]Perseus_the_BoldMGTOW 29 points30 points31 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Just go grab a hooker or whatever.

God knows we try, but women are having none of it and lobby every government and every social circle to take away both men and women's ability to exchange sex for tangible benefits by making it illegal or socially ostracizing both prostitutes and the men that hire them.

Long term relationships are not bad. The vast majority of men would genuinely like to be in one. The problem is that both women and society do not respect men who dedicate themselves to a woman. Women only give verbal adulation to such men but their actions are a great big middle finger to him. As I said before, women say they love hubby but they truly desire the fuckboy. Men are not stupid, we see what women do and care little for what they say.

So if women are only ever going to take a certain man seriously then it's in men's best interests to be that certain man. In this case, it is best to be a fuckboy, a player, chad, tomcat, or even a slimy PUA than to be the clown called hubby.

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[–]DjangoUBlackBastard6 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

He's just a normal man with normal social skills, like it also doesn't make sense for a guy who is physically unattractive to label some other dude who takes care of himself, a chad, because he's better-looking, and then claim that women only want those other men ''due to hypergamy dur dur'.

Do you think normal (read average) men with normal social skills aren't constantly discussing women in analytical terms when around each other? Not giving each other tips and advice? This is the shit all men talk about with each other. Maybe not in the exact terms, maybe without as much focus on the negatives (Blackpill is some other shit) but the idea you will have hard time with women until you learn to stop listening to them, actually lead them (this might be the biggest thing I think RP thought teaches men that will help them), and improve yourself to be above average is what all men teach other men they need to do to get women. I'm headed to the barbershop later today, I guarantee I'll hear someone discussing his girl and men giving the exact advice you'd get at a RP forum. Also less than 50% of millennial men are married/have children, so average men are having similar issues with women too.

I might have an issue with posters like the other (it's always wild to me how MGTOW men are constantly discussing women and relationships... Like bro move on you're on your own way right?) but nothing he's saying here is a lie. The #1 thing most men I know have learned about women from their fathers is that you can't trust them to tell you how to attract them. So we look around for what traits we see in men surrounded by women and we center improving that.

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[–]Perseus_the_BoldMGTOW 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

We tend to only pay attention to what pleases us and that which reinforces our preconceptions. You enjoy watching happy couples so they stand out. This is the same problem some men have with their perception of women, they enjoy good looking women so they ignore almost everyone else and think that the entire female population is made up of 8's and 9's.

But there's a catch. These women are often not on tinder. Or dating apps at all. You have to find them through their friends."

I have never seen a dating app in my life, I have no idea what they even look like. All my experience with women is 1:1 in person.

Women are as free to have sex with whoever they find attractive just as men are. Women prefer good looking guys and good looking guys are aware that they can get away with shit that normal men would get the axe for. It's the same as with women, pretty women get away with more shit than ugly women. The mob favors looks over substance every day of the week.

[–]Rosifer433d0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Perseus_the_Bold2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I feel amused that you think I'm some kind of autistic incel with bad hygiene. I'm not. I'm fit, healthy, well groomed, financially successful, I cook my own food and I live alone in my own house where have my own gym in the basement. Nobody who knows me in person would ever believe that I am MGTOW. Anyway...

I know what women want, that is why I am MGTOW. There is an old aphorism that goes: "You can either love women, or you can understand them; but you cannot do both." So what is a man to do when he understands women? The answer is that he goes his own way as one possible option.

I have not been invisible to women all my life. There was a time in fact when women flirting with me caused me anger, it's a totally personal issue and it is my problem to deal with. My point is is that I am not starved for women's attention. Often, in my case, their attention is not welcome. Online it is much easier to talk to women because I'm just reading text on a screen; but in person it is just not the same. I get irritated, flustered, and sometimes even angry still - residue of the Red Pill Rage phase. It is entirely my problem so I avoid women as much as possible.

I value only myself which is why I take care of myself. Somehow women think this is an invitation for them to try and flirt with me which I see as purely self interested hypergamy. I don't blame them for it. I simply understand it.

[–]Rosifer433d-2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Prostitution has been legalized in Countries like Germany and the Netherlands. Most of the men who take part in that sort of stuff aren't native to those Countries. They tend to be the losers from the United Kingdom and from the USA.

You know, if red pillers and mgtows are so desperate for sex, they can easily move to these Countries and they can spend the rest of their lives partaking in the services of professional prostitutes. Nothing is keeping them from fulfilling their dreams.

I'm sorry that red pillers and mgtowers have never experienced it, but there's quite a bit of a difference in the pleasure a man feels from having sex with an attractive woman who sleeps with him because she is attracted to him, than what a man gets from sleeping with a hot-looking escort because she wants that louis vutton bag.

So many men who visit escorts end up regretting it, and get no joy or pleasure out of it, because being wanted, being lusted after by a woman is an emotional high that a prostitute no matter how hot or good she is at fucking, can't provide.

Nah. Like I said. Most of the men in my family is happily married and is adored by their wives. Go meet women and men who are mentally and emotionally stable, with their lives put together, and you will realize there's lots and lots of happy marriages ou tthere.

[–]Perseus_the_Bold1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Red Pillers mostly want sex. MGTOW not so much, especially the ones who go Monk (Voluntarily Celibate).

they can easily move to these Countries and they can spend the rest of their lives partaking in the services of professional prostitutes.

If I had that kind of money where I could just "easily" move to Germany and have a different prostitute for every necktie I own, I assure you my dear, I wouldn't be spending my money on prostitutes. I am actually MGTOW at the end of the day and my interests are elsewhere.

Nothing is keeping them from fulfilling their dreams

The lack of money and resources sure as hell can.

I'm sorry that red pillers and mgtowers have never experienced it, but there's quite a bit of a difference in the pleasure a man feels from having sex with an attractive woman who sleeps with him because she is attracted to him, than what a man gets from sleeping with a hot-looking escort because she wants that louis vutton bag."

Actually, the vast majority of Red Pillers and MGTOW have in fact experienced that. Red Pillers are serial daters and have had plenty of sex with supposedly loving women and a lot of MGTOW are divorced or got burned by women who also supposedly loved them. We're not incels. We know what love is. We know what we are choosing to forsake. We are not fanatics following a passion. We are sober minded adults making a very hard decision: To go our own way.

So many men who visit escorts end up regretting it, and get no joy or pleasure out of it, because being wanted, being lusted after by a woman
is an emotional high that a prostitute no matter how hot or good she is
at fucking, can't provide"

That is not how men's sexuality works. We do in fact get an immense high from very attractive escorts. Love and Sex are not the same thing in our brain as it is in yours. We are perfectly capable of deriving full sexual satisfaction from escorts. A woman does not have to desire a man for him to feel attracted to her, men do not get any sort of emotional high in the way that you describe, that is a uniquely female thing. And men only regret hiring escorts when they get caught.

there's lots and lots of happy marriages out there

Where exactly? Just name the town and make a believer out of me when I see it with my own eyes.

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[–]DjangoUBlackBastard5 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Most men are still getting married

Only 44% of millennials are married. I'm 27 and know 2 married men in my age group, and I'm the only unmarried man I know actually working towards marriage with someone. Both the married guys I know met their wives while still teenagers too.

This fantasy of men dropping out of the marriage market, and of dropping off the dating market, is just wishful thinking from guys who were invisible to women for one reason or another ,and are pissed off to see other people being happy, and being partnered up.

Again this doesn't vibe with either my lived reality or the numbers. Researchers predict by the time millennials are 45-54 only 75% will have been married before (vs 94% a generation before us). That's a major drop.

And the men who aren't married, those men are living partnered with someone, with many of those co-habitation marriages having lasted 10 to 20 or 30 years so far. I see it all the time around me.

Cohabitation is down 11% compared to Gen X at our same age. What you're seeing quite frankly isn't the norm.

Yes, I have noticed that red pillers and their cousins, the MGTOW seem to have their brain different from normal men, which would account for the way they perceive reality, and how wrongly that perception is.

They take it way too far but statistically speaking they're more accurate than you are. What's really happening is that plenty of men are checking out but they're still a minority (maybe 10-20% of guys). Most men aren't checking out and are just taking their lumps and hoping they'll find a good woman down the road. Most men in my age group aren't in LTRs at all and the most healthy relationships I've seen are in the gay men I know. The straight men I know prefer to keep things casual with all the women they've been with so far (I was also in that pile before my current GF). Hell my brother has had a GF for 3 years and she's had a miscarriage and he STILL won't give her a title. I'm just not personally seeing what you described or statistically seeing it. Worth mentioning I'm black, and have a diverse friend group but it's still mostly black and only 24% of black millennials are married.

[–]Sad_Top17433 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Rosifer433d0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The manosphere is where all of the losers and weirdos find themselves at, since they lack any friends and are too busy wallowing in their own self-imposed misery to realize that the problem is not with women :but with themselves.

What those peoiple in the mansphere say doesn't really mean much because of their bias regarding the dating world. Being husband material to a high quality woman is being blue-pilled?

How come? Do you think women are spending their 20s getting railed left and right by dozens, hundreds of dudes, and then when they get into their 30s they marry any guy with a job? Bonus, if he is a high-earner?

Or is this line of thought coming from men who were inivisible to women when they were in their 20s, because they are either physically unattractive, or they are shy, or awkward, or autistic, and they lack the qualities that the women they want, are seeking for in a romantic partner, and that has lead these men to develop a cult creed, a creepy as fuck online red pill community of losers telling each other that it's impossible to get a girlfriend because ''woman only wants hot guy huh huhu'' ?

[–]Perseus_the_Bold2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The manosphere is filled will all sorts of characters. Some men there are business owners, some are career oriented guys, some are college students, some are basement dwellers, I've even come across a doctor one time but the vast majority are simply anonymous and you can tell by their language the caliber of their intelligence and personality. A basement dweller is not going to sound the same as a guy who is on a business trip and venting on his computer.

Do you think women are spending their 20s getting railed left and right
by dozens, hundreds of dudes, and then when they get into their 30s they
marry any guy with a job? Bonus, if he is a high-earner?"

I don't think it, I see it. In the manosphere there is an unwritten rule: "No one can be told what the Matrix is, you have to see it for yourself." Seeing is believing which is why a lot of men get red pilled without ever hearing about any of this jargon.

Or is this line of thought coming from men who were inivisible to women when they were in their 20s, "

That is certainly the case in some instances, but that doesn't account for all the men. The sheer volume of men participating in this set of phenomena means there is not one cause that is motivating men to take this path. That is also why the manosphere is more like a web, or a tree with many branches.

Lastly, the thing about MGTOW is that it is not a club or a creed. Anyone who pretends otherwise is full of crap. MGTOW is just the name of a social phenomena, it's what men who make a very specific choice are called just so that they have a name by which to be called.

[–]BassPotato 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]sigma19322 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Women setting inconsistent boundaries = "looking out for herself", "knowing her worth", "being strong and independent" and "living her best life".

Men making objective observations and then setting healthy, consistent boundaries = "emotionally damaged", "low self-image/self-esteem", "needs therepy".

Why does this double-standard exist? Because it disqualifies a large number of women, and in 2021, any remote criticism of a female is "misogyny".

Look, a man not wanting to marry the town bike who refused to fuck him because she sees him as "husband material" and "doesn't want to come off like a slut" doesn't make him paranoid... it makes her an irrational whore, and him capable of making rational decisions rather than being blinded by pussy.

Who seem to meet a lot of low quality women

A much larger portion of "modern women" are low-quality than in previous generations.

I come from an extremely stable family the likes of which are unheard of today. The standards I have for women were set by the example set by the female role-models I had growing up, all of which are in healthy, decades long committed marriages.

Modern women are nowhere close to what these women were, and the men would've laughed at what a lot of modern women are demanding of men.

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[–]sigma1932 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's more they value sex as the biggest measure of affection than well... Everything else.

Basically in a discussion about love languages, their love language is "constant, enthusiastic sex but only with me"

Why? I don't know. And frankly I don't care. I just know its not something Im willing to put up with. If our attitudes to sex are different then out the door i go.

OMFG.... people in this sub are fucking dense...

It's literally the core of the male biological imperative-- i.e. males seek (read: compete for) exclusive reproductive access from females.

it's basically the male counterpart to hypergamy... Women fucking other dudes casually but making him wait so she can vet him as "husband material" is like if he gives all his time and attention (both sexual and non-sexual) to other random women who do nothing practical for him while he expects her to come over and clean his house and cook his meals, and everything else a "wife" used to do as a matter of her one day being given the privilege of also being given the task of getting him off regardless of how much pleasure you get out of it.

The difference is men are expected to pursue this fucking bullshit.

[–]AldabruzzoI get to decide 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]AldabruzzoI get to decide 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

Welcome back. Hope you've learned a little something.

First, men don't say "if she ever in her life fucked someone before she fucked you, she didn't give you her "best"." Strawman.

What is ACTUALLY said, and what is true, is that she did in fact give her best to men she fucked before, because she was attracted to them, and she is not attracted to you, she is using, manipulating, and exploiting you as a beta bux, and we know this because she is making you wait and she fucked the other guys immediately.

It is NOT "she fucked other guys before me". It is "she is treating me differently. She is treating me worse. She expects more from me and gives me less."

I don't care that she fucked other guys before. I care that I'm getting treated differently than the guys she fucked before. I don't care about the N so much as I care about the differing treatment. I care that other guys got the goods immediately and for free; and I have to pay and wait. No. FUCK THAT BULLSHIT.

The response from the ladies is always "well, you're not Chad, and you're Billy Beta. Chad fucks now; Billy pays and waits. And, well, I want other things from you. I want commitment. And I have to protect myself. You have to do; I will sit in judgment of your efforts."

My reply: Well, you should have picked a guy you were sexually attracted to AND who was willing to give you commitment. Your delays, your inability to thread that needle, and your inability to find a guy to do that until now - none of those things are my problems. Either give me what I want, NOW, or hit the bricks.

Got it now? Any questions?

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You’re right. I’m a woman and I can admit this. Women almost always end up getting used by men for sex because they’re highly emotional beings. I can think of scores of women who end up regretting their casual encounters or feeling disgusted with themselves after they’re done. Hell, even some women in relationships regret having had sex with their partners. Sometimes, women go into it v confident because they convince themselves it’s strictly casual and then they end up catching feelings or in general feeling like shit when the man calls her only when he’s horny. This is why no women takes it as a compliment when she’s offered sex, dick is pretty freaking cheap sorry.

This is why I see casual sex as a bad proposition for women. You damn well know you’re gonna feel used by them later, most men don’t even respect they women they fuck around with. It’s got to do with societal expectations placed on women too but all in all, this is a losing proposition for women and I just wish ladies would wake up and see it for what it is.

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It’s always been an unpleasant truth but unfortunately because of some bimbos masquerading as third wave feminists and pick mes desperate to service men, ladies don’t wanna wake up to this. They’d rather keep convincing themselves that this is “empowerment” when it’s just plain ol patriarchy wrapped up in a golden box. You’re still servicing men and putting yourself at an absolute disadvantage in the society, where the fuck is the empowerment? See, white feminism is baffling to me.

I’m not asking for trad roles or anything, we’re past that shit and that would mean undoing years of feminist work. Neither do I condone mistreatment or disrespect of women who engage in casual sex but in our current status quo, it’s a losing proposition for us. It’s doing us more harm than good. I have a lot more thoughts on this but I’m linking a NYT article here which succinctly sums up my thoughts.

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It could also be a nice way of saying you’re undesirable in general

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So... I have a thought here. It could be a bit Pavlovian. Like, we never hear "you're husband material" while being accepted. We only hear it as a consolation while being rejected. I think this is the biggest source of the "Nice Guy problem." How many of those "Nice Guys" were called "Nice" while being rejected? As a kid, I was always assured that I was a super nice guy while girls were telling me that they weren't interested. What's a guy supposed to take from that?

In the many years added to my life, I see it for what it is: She is trying to soften the blow. But in the moment, it can be easy to take a concrete feedback, because you encountered a failure and immediately began seeking information about where you went wrong so you can make adjustments and succeed in the future.

So the girl doesn't say "You're boring and you dress lame" because, let's face it, that paints her as a HUUUUGE BITCH, and we wouldn't accept that anyway, since we're simultaneously trying to get feedback while also trying to insulate our bruised ego/self esteem.

I'm focusing on the "Nice Guy" thing here because, in my mind (can't speak for anyone else) "Husband material" is a VERY similar statement to being called a nice guy. which, as we all know, means "I don't want to have sex with you."

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The thing is ,you married your fuck buddy, you not with him ,solely because his husband material. You with him because you enjoyed the sex ,so that would still continue in your marriage

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^ this is why the comment while not a put-down of the guy, its also not exactly seen as praise or something to make the guy feel good about himself....especially for the guys who never get any NSA action. Just because she wants to be long term with the husband guy doesn't mean he is going to get her sexual best or that she is really passionate about him...more so imo the older the woman is when she is going to marry him where 'safe/stable/good dad/good provider/faithful' adjectives are going to come into play more. Likewise for the men who get women sleeping with them asap and aren't seen as conventional husband material men, does not mean all the women they were with saw them as just disposable fuckbois. Even my boozy/druggy player friends had no trouble finding women to want to be in a relationship with them....the ball was much more in their court whether there was going to be a relationship. Sure many when younger were not fit for LTRs but that had no shortage of women happy to give it a go.

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The existence of a small minority of women who will do casual anal with men they choose does not mean all men who want casual anal can get it regularly.

Exactly! Anal is only for the man she's attracted to.

Some divorced women will go out and have sex, and some won’t…. But only very few of them will fuck completely indiscriminately the way men want to. Fucking “any and everything you can find” is how men choose to pursue sex. Women, and yes, even the horrible divorced women you hate, tend to be more selective. Divorced women are not men

How many divorced women have you dated?

Divorced women are still women, and are not attracted to all men.

This is true,but in the meantime, before she can figure out what she wants, she's going to hit the carousel of dicks hard. Mostly coworkers and men she usually would say no to but she no longer cant.

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]tonyghow3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They don’t stop having preferences. But those preferences become even narrower for the hot guy.

I’ve dated many divorced women and have a handful of divorced women friends.

IME, women over 40 that were in deadbedroom marriages for 10-15 years have a visceral reawakening of their libidos. As talked about by some like Esther Perel, the awakening is not physical, it’s psychological and emotional. The freedom and possibility of being desired and appreciated fuels the passion.

However, many of these women don’t want to immediately rebound into second or third marriages. They want to feel wanted and have sex. Lots of it. So yes, they will hop on the cock carousel, at least for a few years after divorce. And maybe never if they are high powered and independent who “don’t need a man.”

[–]JameisBong2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The other poster is a woman, never been married so how would she know?

So, obviously you have no problem talking about stuff you don’t know anything about. I am married.

My point is that women do not cease to be women. Some divorced women may indeed be less inhibited than shy virgins are, but they are still women and still naturally more selective about sexual partners than men. Marriage or divorce does not biologically change the fact that the vast majority of women do not find all men constantly fuckable. Women do not have men’s insatiable, testosterone-driven libido for having sex with everything in sight. Women are not biologically identical to men.

The women you are fucking are likely outliers, if they’re really willing to fuck everything vaguely male-looking under the sun.

[–]JameisBong2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The women you are fucking are likely outliers, if they’re really willing to fuck everything vaguely male-looking under the sun.

Good, that proves they do exist. I couldn't possibly have dated every divorced woman on the planet. The sample size I have access to lets me know others exist.

My point is that women do not cease to be women. Some divorced women may indeed be less inhibited than shy virgins are, but they are still women and still naturally more selective about sexual partners than men.

Nobody said they weren't. I'm saying the frigid low libido woman, will transform into a pornstar once she's divorced. She will not go into the next relationship, FWB situation, or whatever with her imaginary " low libido".

Women are not biologically identical to men.

Never claimed that they were.

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tonyghow2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Like all women, they only want to fuck men they find attractive, and most women do not find all men attractive.

Correct. That's a topic that is brought up almost daily on PPD. We know that most women consider most men below average, regardless of the woman's attractiveness... while men find more women attractive (for sex). This is common tribal knowledge. What's your point there? That doesn't preclude them from fucking more men they find attractive, while not being in relationship mode.

I think the point of this thread and the OP, is that being called "husband material" is code for settling for less than 100%. Women want it all, not just the beta provider. Nothing wrong with that but a man wants to be told he is Hot sex material because we know a lot of women get bored with the beta provider and end up, if not cheating, fantasizing over the tall hot mysterious unpredictable guy.

A typical timeline nowadays is:

21-27: Ride the cock carousel while trying to reform the fuck boys she finds attractive into emotionally available marriage-minded men. Pro tip: you can't change people.
28-34: Her bio clock ticks, she makes the realization that time is running out, she settles and marries a beta provider and pops out a couple kids.
34-42: Her marriage slowly declines into dead-bedroom because raising kids with someone you're not passionate about is a chore, she gets bored with and loses respect for the beta guy because she was never truly sexually attracted.
42+: She divorce rapes the guy because "boring husband lacking confidence killed my libido", she gets back on the cock carousel for a couple years, once again getting tired of being fucked over by fuck boys, she blames all men for her own choices while asking her girlfriends, "where have all the good men gone?" Finally optionally choosing another beta guy who worships her or ends up with a couple of cats.

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think the point of this thread and the OP, is that being called "husband material" is code for settling for less than 100%. Women want it all, not just the beta provider. Nothing wrong with that but a man wants to be told he is Hot sex material

No, It’s not “settling” to like a man so much you want him to stick around after sex. Only an idiot would think someone who kicks you out after sex actually finds you the most attractive person. If you fuck a woman, should she think you’re “settling” if you don’t immediately dump her after sex to go fuck other women?

Here is my point: men mistakenly think that when a woman who is fucking them says “you’d be a great husband”, she is thinking that she actually really doesn’t enjoy fucking him, and just wants to use him for his wallet.

That may be how many men think of marriage, but not how women typically do. Women do not want to marry the man they can barely tolerate fucking— he’s a last resort, not someone they want to marry or who they think would be a good husband for herself. As you said, they want it all: they want to marry a man they get amazing hot sex with who they also won’t feel ashamed of fucking the next morning; a man who they can fuck happily and also take home to meet her family.

It is male-brained thinking to imagine that women say “husband material” as some kind of sick joke. For that to be the case, you’d have to believe that the woman thinks her own company is worthless and insulting.

It would be the equivalent of a man telling a woman he’s dating seriously “you’re so sexy”, and the woman assuming he means that he doesn’t like her personality at all, and thinks she’s nothing more than a lowly cum dumpster for him, instead of taking it as the compliment it was intended to be.

It’s projection for men to think that women think her company is some kind of personal insult to men.

[–]tonyghow2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, It’s not “settling” to like a man so much you want him to stick around after sex. Only an idiot would think someone who kicks you out after sex actually finds you the most attractive person.

I never said anything about kicking anyone out after sex. Women want the hot fuck boys to stay. They try to turn them into projects and hope they become husband material. That is a tough proposition because the super hot guys have options.

Women who can't hold down a hot guy end up settling for a beta provider and initially praise him as "husband material" (like OP). But secretively, they daydream about failing to tame the bad boy they really wanted.

Sure, there could be women calling their dream guy "husband material" on dates, but I've never heard that in the context of being "the whole package" from my single or married guy friends. It's akin to going on a date with a guy, your girlfriends asking "how did it go?" and answering, "He's cute and nice" vs. "He's so hot!" Answering both ways is very rare.

Here is my point: men mistakenly think that when a woman who is fucking them says “you’d be a great husband”, she is thinking that she actually really doesn’t enjoy fucking him, and just wants to use him for his wallet.

I agree with your point. The issue is that men want to hear that they are desired sexually above all, because anything less, and women will get bored, checkout, and stray mentally or physically.

The risk is that women know men want sex, so they fuck the beta to lock him down. Not necessarily for the wallet (that matters less and less since women are make their own money), but to not remain alone in her later years (40+). But then the sex is taken away ever so slowly.

they want it all: they want to marry a man they get amazing hot sex with who they also won’t feel ashamed of fucking the next morning; a man who they can fuck happily and also take home to meet her family.

Exactly. While the meaning of "husband material" seems to encompass that nicely, it still sounds like a backhanded compliment. Precisely because of the many reports of dead or decreased sex during marriage, especially after kids.

It would be the equivalent of a man telling a woman he’s dating seriously “you’re so sexy”, and the woman assuming he means that he doesn’t like her personality at all, and thinks she’s nothing more than a lowly cum dumpster for him, instead of taking it as the compliment it was intended to be.

Um. Yes? That is also common knowledge that men are sex focused and stay in relationships for good sex while not really liking the woman's high-maintenance nagging personality.

I wish there were never an ulterior meaning to people's statements and that the literal meaning is a positive one. The world would be a much happier place.

TL;DR; don't call a man you're dating "husband material". Simply show him, by choosing him because you're 1000% sexually attracted and fuck him because you want to.

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Women want the hot fuck boys to stay. They try to turn them into projects and hope they become husband material.

If you realize that women want hot fuck boys to be husbands, then why do you still insist that being wanted as a husband somehow means the exact opposite of being attractive?

It's akin to going on a date with a guy, your girlfriends asking "how did it go?" and answering, "He's cute and nice" vs. "He's so hot!" Answering both ways is very rare.

You have absolutely zero knowledge of how women talk to each other when you are not there.

because anything less, and women will get bored, checkout, and stray mentally or physically.

Uh huh. Women bad.

While the meaning of "husband material" seems to encompass that nicely, it still sounds like a backhanded compliment.

To men’s ears. But that is not the intention.

Yes? That is also common knowledge that men are sex focused and stay in relationships for good sex while not really liking the woman's high-maintenance nagging personality.

You really believe calling your girlfriend sexy is intended as an insult? Because I don’t. It’s a compliment that men say, and mean genuinely, because they value sex more than almost anything else.

Also not subtle that you seem to believe all women are high maintenance nags. No wonder you think being a husband must be an insult: if you think everything about a woman but her cunt is horrible, of course it must seem like an insult if she thinks you are so desperate you’d be willing to tolerate the rest of her horrible self forever in exchange for sex…. It’s just weird that you seem to think the woman thinks of herself that way.

TL;DR; don't call a man you're dating "husband material". Simply show him, by choosing him because you're 1000% sexually attracted and fuck him because you want to.

I agree that you should only ever fuck a man because you want to. But if all you do is fuck a man, and never mention marriage, there’s good odds he’ll treat you like just another slut, or maybe a forever girlfriend at best. But if he’s only in it for the hot sex, you won’t be his wife. Men here give the worst advice.

[–]tonyghow1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If you realize that women want hot fuck boys to be husbands, then why do you still insist that being wanted as a husband somehow means the exact opposite of being attractive?

I've said it 3-4 times now. It's because many women settle for beta guys eventually when they can't secure a hot guy. They force themselves into starfish sex with "husband material" guys, and get tired of it later on. Then blame the guy for not confidently satisfying her sexually.

It's the exact mirror image of a guy that tells a woman "you have a great personality!" which is a backhanded compliment that they aren't attractive enough for more than just a friend.

You have absolutely zero knowledge of how women talk to each other when you are not there.

And you have absolutely zero knowledge of the women I associate with. I have 3 very active female friends who confide in me, recounting live their experiences with dating men, sending me the guys' pictures, screenshots of conversations, asking me to check in on them, to call them during a date so they have an out if the man turns out to be a dud, etc... Including debriefing where I hear honest accounts of, "He was sweet but I just didn't like his teeth" vs. "He's super hot. I'm glad I shaved!" But not once have I ever heard, "He's husband material!" And these women are divorced moms looking to eventually remarry.

You really believe calling your girlfriend sexy is intended as an insult?

Of course not. It can be genuine, but sometimes men lie and sometimes women lie. That's the whole point. "Husband material" can be a white lie that means, "You're a great catch. <sup>You're not the whole package but I can't do any better than you. Marry me.</sup>"

Also not subtle that you seem to believe all women are high maintenance nags.

I never said "all". You keep adding words to negatively embellish my statements.

But if all you do is fuck a man, and never mention marriage, there’s good odds he’ll treat you like just another slut

Mentioning marriage is fine, after you've been in a relationship for a while. Or to filter out men who don't want a long term commitment. The OP compliment is weird, though.

Men here give the worst advice.

The post is about being oddly called "husband material". If you don't want to hear how men receive, interpret, and react to statements made by women, then feel free to ignore. Thanks for the chat.

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It's because many women settle for beta guys eventually when they can't secure a hot guy. They force themselves into starfish sex with "husband material" guys, and get tired of it later on. Then blame the guy for not confidently satisfying her sexually.

So?w Just don’t marry a woman who isn’t enthusiastic about sex. It’s hard to fake attraction. Those women are not your problem if you don’t choose them.

But as I mentioned before, most women don’t have to settle for men they don’t actually want. Some average guy’s mediocre paycheck isn’t going to make up for a lifetime of unpleasant, dry sex unless the woman is desperate for money somehow. Most women aren’t prostitutes who will fuck men they aren’t attracted to for cash.

It can be genuine, but sometimes men lie and sometimes women lie.

… in which case it isn’t the compliment itself that’s the insult, but rather the unspoken thing they may or may not be saying. The comment itself if not inherently insulting, and it’s very bad faith to just assume the person you’re fucking must secretly think you’re trash. It’s such a low-self-esteem way to view what might be genuinely meant as a compliment.

I never said "all". You keep adding words to negatively embellish my statements.

You said it’s “common knowledge” that men just stick around nagging, high maintenance women just for the sex. If you don’t want to generalize to “men” and “women”, you might want to put in some hedge words occasionally.

So you are one of the “girlfriends asking ‘how did it go?’”?

But not once have I ever heard, "He's husband material!"

So you’ve never once heard the phrase, therefore you know how it is used and what women mean when they say it? That makes no sense at all.

The OP compliment is weird, though.

It’s a weird compliment only in some contexts. It’s not nearly as weird of a compliment for men and women who value marriage, in sure.

The post is about being oddly called "husband material". If you don't want to hear how men receive, interpret, and react to statements made by women, then feel free to ignore.

The failure of the post is in how the OP wrongly assumes the thoughts, feelings, and intentions of the women who said this. He can only talk about how the phrase makes him feel, but makes the mistake of assuming that women say this intending for those to be his feelings.

Thanks for the chat.

Likewise.

[–]malin_w13 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]gimpgirl555Pick Me 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]malin_w131 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]malin_w131 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'll speak for myself with the caveat that many men feel like this and all men I know feel like this, but maybe it's uncommon in general and I'm mistaken.

But I wasn’t even referring to marriage when I made the original comment. “Husband material” can also be LTR.

Any LTR that's short of ending when marriages that aren't ended with divorce end (aka when one person dies) is basically an extended FWB period. My brother has been with his FWB almost exclusively for 3 years now. She's had a miscarriage for him and still has no title. If he gave her a title nothing changes because the main point is that he doesn't want to be with her forever and if he did he'd marry her. Every man I know is like that - even men that are against marriage are only against it because they know they want to constantly have the option for an easy breakup so they can move on.

So I think that might also be getting lost in translation because an LTR that doesn't end in death, marriage, or children sounds like a waste of time to me.

[–]malin_w131 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]malin_w131 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]malin_w131 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sure! Maybe I phrased it poorly - I don’t think at any given point in time you can be certain that the person is “forever”, until you’re obviously “at the end” and made it. Hence why LTR makes more sense to me and it’s what I’m after.

I don’t go into relationships thinking it won’t workout (I just don’t know). The reality is - most relationships end though. People change. The question is then, what do you want more - do you want to make it work and stay in something that doesn’t necessarily make you happy/satisfied anymore or call it quits. It’s not so black and white and different people will have different balance. But you cannot be certain that it’s going to workout with this person… I guess unless you want “it” more than you actually care whether it’s working for you. Too many people stay in shitty marriages.

But obviously some people do stay forever and are truly happy with each other - I’d be inclined to think those are the minority tho.

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sure! Maybe I phrased it poorly - I don’t think at any given point in time you can be certain that the person is “forever”, until you’re obviously “at the end” and made it.

You've never put your faith into anyone or anything? You believe in a purpose greater than you at all? Because I can easily see my marriage as coming before me, the only goal is to find someone that feels the same way.

I don’t go into relationships thinking it won’t workout (I just don’t know).

Well I guess maybe since I'm a lot more realistic than most I can say every relationship before my current one I went into knowing it wouldn't last long. I'm very self aware and pay attention to the little things since I know that's what destroys marriages along with a lack of communication. If I find myself biting my tongue around you more than a handful of times in the first few months we're together I know the end is near already.

The question is then, what do you want more - do you want to make it work and stay in something that doesn’t necessarily make you happy/satisfied anymore or call it quits. It’s not so black and white and different people will have different balance. But you cannot be certain that it’s going to workout with this person… I guess unless you want “it” more than you actually care whether it’s working for you. Too many people stay in shitty marriages.

They don't "stay" in shitty marriages, they create them. The way to not get into that? Don't create a shitty marriage. A marriage is hard work, that's what people's issues are. The vast majority of people can keep a job they absolutely hate for 50 years until they retire, you mean to tell me they can't make a marriage work? Hell 4 generations ago damn near everybody made their marriages work. People getting married for the wrong reasons and that's why they can't sustain. If you're getting into a relationship to travel with someone no shit it's gonna fail.

[–]malin_w131 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, I don’t have faith nor anything above that. I don’t value marriage so putting it before me wouldn’t make sense. I do put my partner before me tho in certain circumstances.

I’m also very self aware, so I don’t go into relationships that I already know aren’t going to last. What would be the point in that? I understand what you’re getting at, but to me the world you’re describing is fantasyland - maybe, cause I haven’t seen it or experienced it.

I actually apply the same logic to jobs or anything else really. You spend most of your time awake at work, so why work somewhere you absolutely hate?

Ultimately, everything that’s worth having is extremely hard work, just depends where you want to put your efforts. As long as you find someone that has the same outlook and values; you’re golden!

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]malin_w131 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

inspite of it making you miserable.

You make yourself miserable with the situations you put yourself in. If you know you have to stick with someone maybe you'll be more particular about who you date? Maybe you wouldn't waste time with people you obviously shouldn't be with? I think that's people's #1 issue in dating, too many people dating with no goals and it's completely fucking everything up to where now men can't trust women and women can't trust men and even though a majority of men and women mean well, being fearful of a minority leads people to having toxic behaviors and relationships.

Most people around me and who I meet, tend to bitch and complain about their lives, yet will do little or nothing to improve.

And the people that weren't like that? I mean there's a lot of people not like that for sure.

[–]malin_w132 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]malin_w132 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]badgersonice-1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SympathyIndependent83 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]badgersonice0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

When a woman says “you are husband material”, she does not mean “sugar mommy maid”. That’s projection of how men feel angry when a woman won’t be his personal worthless cum dumpster, not what women mean when they say that. And lol, please, like women expect men to be the household maid— women know men aren’t going to do all the chores. Haha.

One big reason so many more men today are sexless than in the past is because women are not forced to marry men todo they can have money to survive, and can instead choose not to marry men they don’t want to fuck and still be successful in life. You’re kidding yourself if you think this is still the 1890s and women are all desperate to marry men they don’t want to fuck just so she can get access to his mediocre paycheck while working full time herself anyways. Maybe if he’s a multi-millionaire this could be a concern, but not for the average plebe.

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Speak for yourself. The average married man is having sex 5 times a month according to polling data.

They don’t go into the marriage like this. And for older couples, sex can sometimes drop off due to other stresses without it being some dumb reason like “women marry beta but they never found attractive”.

one of them didn't even have sex on his honeymoon and the other only got regular sex when they were trying for a child.

If they weren’t having sex before the marriage, then it’s the guy’s own fault for agreeing to not getting the sex he wanted. But most women don’t want to marry someone they are repulsed by, unless they were conned into it by religious pressure or something like that.

Plenty of women don't place much importance on sex vs other things.

They do typically place importance on avoiding unwanted sex, though. There’s a difference between not prioritizing (and that’s only some women) and dreaming of a marriage where she denies him sex as much as possible, Marrying someone you do not want to fuck is not something most women want to do unless their other options in life are even worse than barely tolerable misery-sex.

A lifetime of shitty, miserable, orgasmless chore-sex is definitely not many women’s goal. a woman calling a man “husband material” is absolutely not saying “well, I’d definitely love to be stuck lying still under you providing loveless chore sex for you while I mentally check out”.

Even the women who don’t prioritize sex don’t think “oh yeah, awesome, I hope I can marry this guy and deny him sex for the rest of my life”. That’s how some men imagine women’s thought process, even though really, something else entirely has gone wrong.

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They don’t go into the marriage like this. And for older couples, sex can sometimes drop off due to other stresses without it being some dumb reason like “women marry beta but they never found attractive”.

Yes they do. If we stick to cohabiting couples (so they're most often younger and don't have kids) sex only happens 7 times a month on average. The #1 thing men in marriages say they want more of is sex, the #1 thing women say is they don't have the lifestyle they wanted (this is according to AARP polling). Goes hand in hand with my idea that most women don't care a whole lot about sex when picking partners.

If they weren’t having sex before the marriage, then it’s the guy’s own fault for agreeing to not getting the sex he wanted. But most women don’t want to marry someone they are repulsed by, unless they were conned into it by religious pressure or something like that.

You have to be repulsed by someone to not want to have sex with them? You realize MOST women don't want to have sex MOST of the time. High libido women are rare, most women are only consistently horny while on their period and shortly before and after it. Men have a daily hormonal cycle so we (on average) get horny daily, usually in the early morning or late night. For the vast majority of women sex is something they do most times to keep their men happy.

They do typically place importance on avoiding unwanted sex, though. There’s a difference between not prioritizing (and that’s only some women) and dreaming of a marriage where she denies him sex as much as possible, Marrying someone you do not want to fuck is not something most women want to do unless their other options in life are even worse than barely tolerable misery-sex.

Again I don't think you understand the female libido and how much less they want sex in general compared to men. Going back to polling data most married women are happy with the amount of sex they're having. That's how much (or how little depending on how you look at it) they want to have sex. Again women don't want to have sex much, so it's not important to them.

A lifetime of shitty, miserable, orgasmless chore-sex is definitely not many women’s goal.

30-40% of women orgasm every time they have sex and while chore sex isn't the goal (the goal is little to no sex for many) it's the reality they must face to have their goal.

a woman calling a man “husband material” is absolutely not saying “well, I’d definitely love to be stuck lying still under you providing loveless chore sex for you while I mentally check out”.

No it's usually a woman saying "I don't find you attractive or want to bang you OR be in a relationship with you but I'll tell you this to let you down lightly because I don't want to be mean."

Even the women who don’t prioritize sex don’t think “oh yeah, awesome, I hope I can marry this guy and deny him sex for the rest of my life”. That’s how some men imagine women’s thought process, even though really, something else entirely has gone wrong.

Who said that's their thought process? I said it's what they do. The thought process is completely lacking because I don't know many women that spend much time thinking about what men want in relationships. They just bring themselves and usually that's enough for most guys.

[–]reLincolnX1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They don’t go into the marriage like this. And for older couples, sex can sometimes drop off due to other stresses without it being some dumb reason like “women marry beta but they never found attractive”.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/dating-and-mating/201909/why-marital-satisfaction-is-closely-linked-women-s-sexual-desire

In two longitudinal studies (one spanning one year and one spanning four years), the researchers found that, on average, women’s levels of sexual desire were not only lower than men’s at the beginning of their marriages, but much more variable than men’s. Men’s levels of sexual desire stayed higher and more constant than women’s throughout the duration of both studies.

Furthermore, declines in women’s sexual desire predicted declining marital satisfaction for both members of the couple. Interestingly, although women’s sexual desire declined over time, couples’ sexual frequency did not, suggesting that women were likely to engage in sex even when they did not desire it.

Because these data were collected over time, the authors were also able to assess the reverse possibility—that declining marital satisfaction was predictive of less sexual desire. However, this was not supported by the data.

For those couples who became new parents during the course of the study, wives’ sexual desire declined even more steeply, yet men’s sexual desire still tended to remain stable. However, the authors stress that because couples without children also showed declines, parenthood is not the only challenge for women’s sexual desire and couples’ marital satisfaction.

The authors suggest that women’s sexual desire may function not only to facilitate reproduction, but also to enable pair bonding. They speculate that once couples marry, women may not feel as strong a need for sex to secure their bond with their husbands.

and this one too

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/women-get-bored-sex-long-term-relationships/582736/

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]reLincolnX1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're strawmanning because female biology isn't at all the point here. You strawman could almost be relevant if it weren't for the fact that women have a dual sexual and mating strategy. The Lover/Partner dichotomy or what Red Pillers call AF/BB.

When women say you'll make a great husband that means you make a great Partner someone they like and are willing to spend time with but not someone they find that sexually attractive. Someone they don't care about fucking once the pair bonding is done. Within their own head, women think being a Partner is better than being a Lover because they are mostly projecting.

The men women want to marry the most in the world are the "Alpha Bux", they are unicorns and the equivalent Bangmaid fantasy for women. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of women actually settle for men they don't find that sexually attractive.

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're strawmanning

You posted an article claiming that women have a lower and more variable libido than men, as if that contradicted anything I said. It didn’t. I agree, women naturally have a lower and more variable libido than men. And likewise, the fact that women feel less compulsion to fuck after 20 years of marriage? That’s correlated with shit like babies and stress and menopause and a lack of testosterone and both her and her man becoming less hot and less attentive over time, not because women are all evil fakers who only pretend to like sex as part of a scheme to get marriages and extract resources from men before cutting of the sex tap once she’s got the ring.

When women say you'll make a great husband that means you make a great Partner someone they like and are willing to spend time with but not someone they find that sexually attractive.

One of the biggest things the Red Pill gets wrong is their understanding of female thought processes. This is an example of men thinking they can read women’s minds when they are really projecting their own fears into her. Women do not plan to marry with the goal of cutting off sex. That is what men fear will happen, and sometimes does, but it’s not the woman’s plan going in unless she’s a straight up gold digger.

Most women want to marry men they are attracted to, and do not think marriage is a horrible, insulting step down from having occasional casual sex with strangers.

As a matter of fact, the vast majority of women actually settle for men they don't find that sexually attractive.

No, that’s how women married when they had fewer options outside of marriage. Today, most women now avoid marriage to men they don’t want to fuck. It’s much, much easier to not have to marry some lame ugly dude now: women have jobs, Tinder, and cats today, remember?

And it’s also easy for the man to sort that out and avoid, again, at least at first, because it is hard to fake attraction consistently for years (the typical time you’ll be fucking before the wedding).

Like sure, if she’s just lying there starfishing, then saying “you’re husband material” is maybe that’s what’s going on. But if she’s fucking a guy willingly, and she’s not bone dry while doing it, and he’s not dramatically richer than her, it usually means she’s sexually attracted.

[–]reLincolnX1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, I posted an article about the correlation between women's decline in sexual desire and relationship satisfaction. It wasn't an article about the difference between men's and women's libido. Now, you didn't bother to read what I bolded and to make it easier for you. If you're too slow to read or understand what you're reading just tell me and we stop wasting each other time with your shortcomings.

Nobody is saying that women are all evil. Showing unflattering patterns about women doesn't mean they consider them all evil. Just not as wonderful as you want them to be.

Most women want to marry men they are attracted to, and do not think marriage is a horrible, insulting step down from having occasional casual sex with strangers.

Most people want to be rich and not struggle because of money. yet the vast majority of people actually wageslave and then they settle for what they have and try to make do with it.

There is a difference between your wishful thinking and the way you like to believe you're and how you actually act and react.

Today, most women now avoid marriage to men they don’t want to fuck.

The majority of people still marry and the majority of adults beyond 30 are married. So most women actually marry. We also know that women consider the vast majority of men as physically unattractive and that women have a dual mating strategy. As I showed in the links you didn't bother to read the vast majority of women actually duty sex their husband.

So, no women still marry men they consider as Partners instead of Lovers.

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I posted an article about the correlation between women's decline in sexual desire and relationship satisfaction.

Which doesn’t prove you seem to think it proves. Whether a woman’s libido changes or fluctuates after she experiences marriage herself personally is off topic to the discussion of whether women think being marriage material is an insult to the man before she is married. If a woman’s sex drive declines after marriage, that means her drive was once higher. Meaning she did marry someone she felt attracted too at the time of marriage, and wasn’t settling for some ugly beta she can barely stand fucking to get into his wallet. And again, women don’t have to fuck to survive anymore, regardless of how many lonely betafish wish it were the 1920s again.

Women do not think “oh hey, this study says women don’t like sex after marriage: I know, I’ll tell this guy he’s marriage material as a sneaky insult to mean that I probably won’t want to fuck him every 3 hours once we’ve been married 10 years just to insult him”.

(personal attacks)

The fact that I think your psychology doesn’t enlighten much, and that most psychology studies are unreproducible does not mean I’m reading-impaired. It’s immature teenager behavior to accuse people who disagree with you of being stupid to try to win an debate, and you should feel embarrassed for making these childish comments.

So most women actually marry.

Most hold out until they can find someone they like, not marry the first guy they can barely stand and hate fucking. And likewise, men can refuse to marry if the woman doesn’t fuck him enough.

So, no women still marry men they consider as Partners instead of Lovers.

Some do. Most don’t, because they don’t have to. Most women are actually heterosexual and capable of liking sex, you know. And if you’re still scared some woman is trying to trick you into marriage by being an amazing actress, either just don’t marry, or only marry a woman who actually fucks you. It’s not complicated.

[–]reLincolnX1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I had to use personal attacks because you were willfully being dishonest by strawmanning all around and twisting what I was saying. You were so dishonest that you didn't even bother to read what I posted and I had to use personal attacks to make you actually read an excerpt (not even the whole article) in which I even bolded the relevant parts.

I won't apologize for forcing you to stop your willful dishonesty.

Which doesn’t prove you seem to think it proves. Whether a woman’s libido changes or fluctuates after she experiences marriage herself personally is off topic to the discussion of whether women think being marriage material is an insult to the man before she is married.

My whole point is that women have a dual sexual and mating strategy. I already gave you a link about that too. That duality is the Partner/Lover dichotomy. Someone women consider as being husband material and someone women don't consider that way.

The fact women tend to choose Partner instead of Lover for LTR is quite relevant since they tend to give husband material attributes to said Partner.

Now, the point is to ask how women end up duty sexing their husband down in the road and get bored by sex with him while at the beginning they were apparently very physically attracted to him.

The researchers in the link I gave you tend to believe that once the pair bonding is done women don't feel the need to bother with sex anymore.

I agree with that too because it also correlates with women's dual sexual and mating strategies.

[–]badgersonice1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I won't apologize for forcing you to stop your willful dishonesty.

It’s not dishonesty. You’re just talking about something off topic and I’m not following you down that rabbit hole.

I read what you quoted. I considered the entire passage unuseful to the actual topic of discussion: whether the woman is trying to insult the man if she says he’s husband material.

Everyone knows sex often drops off in a marriage as they face stress, major marital issues, complacency, laziness, obesity, have kids etc. But none of that has anything to do with whether the woman is deliberately insulting the man she is fucking by saying she thinks he’s marriage material.

The whole passage you quoted was all irrelevant, I just didn’t quote and respond to every sentence because it’s stupid to expect that. If you consider that dishonesty, then consider just how much you keep sidestepping my points, refusing to address the issue that I’m talking about: that women who currently have a high libido for a guy do not consciously plan to have a lower libido later, and do not say he’s marriage material with the goal of having him become less sexually attractive to her over time.

You keep sidestepping this because you want to rant about how women are not wonderful, a topic which I have not disputed at all. At no point have I argued that women are wonderful, that they have steady constant unchanging libidos for any man. You are focused on that topic, and it isn’t what I was discussing at any point at all. It also isn’t the point of the OP.

So since you’ve been ignoring the point of my argument for several comments now: do you struggle with reading comprehension? Should I use smaller words so you can understand the difference between being in a marriage after 10 years and talking about marriage before you are married?

My whole point is that women have a dual sexual and mating strategy.

I know, it’s just not particularly relevant to how the woman feels in the moment she offers the complimement. You said it yourself earlier: women want it all. They want the Alpha-bux, if you insist on using red pill doofus language.

If the dual mating strategy is in the same man, where she fucks him like mad when they first meet, and the sex is no longer as frequent as the first exciting few weeks before commitment is on the table… its not really a “dual mating strategy”. The mating is happening with the same exact man. The difference in “mating strategy” is that once they’re married/committed, there’s a chance he might actually still give a shit about her if she gets pregnant.

That duality is the Partner/Lover dichotomy. Someone women consider as being husband material and someone women don't consider that way.

Since you still seem to be not understanding what I’ve said at all, let me put it in your simplistic “lover/partner” black -and-white terms: if a woman is fucking him like a lover before the marriage, then why do you think she is just pretending and calling him “husband material” as an insult if this is simply how women’s libido naturally, and unfortunately, behaves?

Because that is the topic I am discussing here, not whether or not womens libido changes over time. That is well known, and not revelatory.

Now, the point is to ask how women end up duty sexing their husband down in the road and get bored by sex with him while at the beginning they were apparently very physically attracted to him.

Women’s libido changes over time for many many reasons. One major one is breastfeeding (the hormones are catastrophic for libido), another is that often both partners in a marriage become complacent and stop doing things that are attractive to one another. Another is resentment. Another is becoming fat (either partner or both).

Those are all irrelevant to whether the woman, while she’s in a new exciting relationship with a guy she thinks is hot enough to fuck regularly, also thinks he is good enough for a relationship. Women do not divide men into separate Lover vs Partner categories mentally (the way men do with the Madonna/Whore complex) where you can be one or the other, but never both, because the woman’s ultimate goal is actually to have both.

Sure, if the woman isn’t fucking you enthusiastically now and says you’d be a great husband, then yes, she’s likely sacrificing sexual attraction to get a dull partner she doesn’t want to fuck. But your argument is that the same logic applies even if she is currently fucking you “like a lover”… which suggests you think women plan ahead hoping to not be attracted to their husbands and then deliberately insult men like this for… some reason? And that is all a projection of how men think about marriage, not a reflection of how the woman does.

done women don't feel the need to bother with sex anymore.

Do you believe women’s libido is under their conscious control? If so, then why do you think that a woman who isn’t currently committed, and is currently experiencing a strong libido for a man she’s fucking and deeply enjoying sex, would tell him he’s “husband material” with the mental goal of insulting him and telling him he’s someone she doesn’t want to fuck at all? Or do you think women do not want long term relationships with men they enjoy fucking ever?

[–]reLincolnX1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If the dual mating strategy is in the same man

No, it's not my argument since I explicitly talked about women's dual mating strategies. hat that means. That's why I provided you a link you also didn't bother to read about human mating strategies.

that women who currently have a high libido for a guy do not consciously plan to have a lower libido later, and do not say he’s marriage material with the goal of having him become less sexually attractive to her over time.

Because at the beginning they try to...pair bond with the man and obviously they have a higher libido to pair bond with him and once it's done, they don't feel bothered to fuck him anymore.

if a woman is fucking him like a lover before the marriage, then why do you think she is just pretending and calling him “husband material” as an insult if this is simply how women’s libido naturally, and unfortunately, behaves?

If she is fucking him like a Lover that actually means she doesn't see him as husband material. That's the whole point of women's dual mating strategies. They don't fuck the same way with a Partner (husband material) and a Lover.

Women do not divide men into separate Lover vs Partner categories mentally (the way men do with the Madonna/Whore complex) where you can be one or the other, but never both, because the woman’s ultimate goal is actually to have both.

Yes, they actually do.

But your argument is that the same logic applies even if she is currently fucking you “like a lover”

No, it's not my argument since I explicitly talked about women's dual mating strategies. If she fucks you like a Lover that's precisely because you aren't husband material.

Do you believe women’s libido is under their conscious control? If so, then why do you think that a woman who isn’t currently committed, and is currently experiencing a strong libido for a man she’s fucking and deeply enjoying sex, would tell him he’s “husband material” with the mental goal of insulting him and telling him he’s someone she doesn’t want to fuck at all?

Women don't tell that to the men they are actually fucking. The whole reason that we have that discussion and so many men don't like hearing that it's because they precisely know it's as flattering as being told "why my asshole boyfriend isn't like you Billy Beta?".

Women want LTR with men they enjoy fucking the thing is getting the commitment of these men is harder. Hence the dual mating strategy, once again. So women settle something you have a hard time admitting.

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My married friends all managed to.

Even the ones who are marrying at 30+.

Have a friend who just got married to a dude. He’s 39, she’s 34. Their second date they were fucking after a night out at the club (another friend was DJing so we all went out).

So yeah. Idk. Im not seeing “almost no women” not genuinely being sexually attracted to their husbands.

When I’m noticing is that I have large swaths of friends who aren’t married or in an LTR. My mom and dad at this age probably had most of their friends married.

My mom would tell you it’s because Boomers married just because and because that was the life plan they were taught/used to.

My peers or generation isn’t rushing into marriage with ppl they feel totally lukewarm about like ppl before did.

But the ones who are getting married genuinely have a connection.

Hope that helps.

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Women don't always want a relationship, they can still want to have sex. Women are not like men in all departments but certainly in this one. Or rather, they can be, just as there are men who only want relationships and not casual sex.

Ofc they do. Being alone is terrible. And women have a wall. Sleeping around while single is not a thing for women.

And of course the body matters, you want to be turned on by the person, no? I honestly can't wrap my head around the fact that you don't seem to understand the most simple things.

I just want the dick. It don't care what the body looks like. It's same-same when you're getting fucked anyway.

People want to be attracted to someone to have sex with them, the rest is more or less negotiable.

If he's a guy then he's attractive.

People want to be attracted to someone PLUS have a list of other things for a person they want to be in a relationship with.

It's really not that complicated.

Nope. Relationships are just for buxx. Because attractive men don't stick around.

If you find a guy attractive, most women will as well. So he will leave.

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No one says it doesn't happen at all. Only a Sith speaks in absolutes. It just isn't common at all. 99% of men that have had a FWB before will tell you the same thing. I've never had a FWB that didn't try to make me exclusive with her which includes my current GF. I've dated a woman who didn't want me as a FWB before and surprise surprise we had to break up 2 months in because we had multiple weeks where she wasn't on her period and we had no sex at all.

Also:

We've known each other for about a year before we had sex with each other, so you'd think any romantic feelings would have developed by that time but they never did. Just strong sexual attraction and a basic friendship. Never wanted to be in a relationship with him and after the sex that itch was also scratched.

So you had sex with him regularly and turned it into a FWB situation? What was it about him that made him not relationship worthy BUT worthy of both having sex with you and being your friend? He have a good job, good goals, etc? Because to us when we hear that it sounds like "you are too bummy for a relationship" and most guys that can't get from FWB to relationships are just not making enough money to get there in my experience.

(sidebar: I'm asking out of curiosity so if you don't want to say anything that's fine).

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Nope. It’s not. It’s wanting to slow things down because dang, this one is quality.

This is literally describing actions 100% consistent with having a madonna whore complex.

We don’t want to have sex too fast and drive them away

Ok so you DO have a madonna whore complex, but you're projecting it onto yourself? That's just as much of a problem lol.

Also in my experience women don't slow it down when they want you. That's a lie they tell you to get you to commit to a sexless relationship or they want to shit test you (this is why the vast majority of women say they do it) because they think wanting sex and wanting a relationship aren't things that go hand in hand. I've never had a GF that wasn't in my bed (or I wasn't in hers) within 3-4 times meeting up (not even going to say dates) and the women that pursued me the hardest for a relationship all tried to put out on the first night.

When we know a dudes only value is his dick they are much quicker to ride it because they don’t care about impressing him.

This is odd, what do you think impresses men and do you think women actually do those things? Because I've literally never once seen women that cared about impressing me NOT putting out. Usually a woman that wants you tries to impress you in bed before anything else.

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That’s what you’ve got? It sounds like a contrivance and a stupid one at that.

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The Madonna whore complex is a speculative theory at best put forth by a largely discredited psychologist that was (apparently) applicable to men’s inability to see women as both a sexual being and a partner/mother/wife worthy of respect.

To the extent it has any real credence, my best guess is it would tie into cultural expectations of women and “ladies” ie the women to marry versus the “whores”.

Setting whatever real world and 21st century value that theory might have aside, this isn’t how women think and women don’t lose respect for a guy simply by being sexually attracted to him. Quite the opposite at least IME. If that’s honestly how you interpret the phrase “husband material” it sounds like a bit of projection on your part (hopefully not though) mixed in with fears that frankly the Manosphere likely led you to believe.

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Idk why they were being so mean to u. As a woman it’s hard to imagine this offending me but I think it must be different for men. Maybe because women often use men for resources in a similar way that men use women for sex, it hurts to be seen as one and not the other. I personally would be happy to be a wife even if it meant I wasn’t super sexy it’s more important to me to have a stable partner bc I need someone to help with the kid and all. I think the women were trying to make u feel good and I wouldn’t interpret it as a truth abt urself. Most compliments are not super literal and are just attempts to make u feel good bc they like u. I’m sure you’re actually attractive to them BECAUSE and not in spite of the romantic husband material qualities they see in you, but women tend to be less open abt expressing their sexual desires directly to men also so they’re maybe doing so directly. Just some thoughts hope ur doing ok

[–]Luciansleep2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Luciansleep5’6 pretty boy[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ChangeUsernameA5 points 4 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Do you think women give better treatment to husband material compared to fuck buddies.

Women expect way less from a fuckbuddy compared to a husband material. How is that better ?

There are alot of things women are willing to do for a fuck buddy. They would happily give a fuck buddy money ,but lose respect for a husband who requests money from her.

[–]poppy_blumean girl 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChangeUsernameA1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

They won't literally all just give money. They just have way less conditions/expectations for fwbs.

I don't want a woman who expects nothing from me ,I just want women to have the same expectations from me as they expect from every other men.

I'm not saying it's wrong we just want to be the guys who women make exceptions for.

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[–]lemon-fiendi dont care about pills 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ChangeUsernameA2 points 4 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

Do girls fuck men they don't want to be around with.

I don't think women don't want to be around that person , it's that the men they want to fuck is not suitable for relationship. But yourll would have preferred it if he was.

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[–]BillyWrightGACHusband material with boyfriend dick 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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You’re right to be offended.

I was told this when I was younger. (High school some college)

I was told: “you’ll make someone very happy someday”

And the classic: “I wish I’d met you when I was older”

And this was not by women who were dying to have sex with me/ actively having sex with me.

At the time I found it unsettling and oddly insulting but I couldn’t put my finger on it.

My very rational and very male mind simply thought: “ if I’m good enough for a relationship later I’m not sure why I’m not good enough to hang out with or …. now”

I was not ugly but I was never thin/cut for most of my youth. I’m not a native English speaker and I grew up in an area that was not very multicultural in the United States. I’m not saying it has anything to do with racism but there was no panache or exoticism with the “difference factor” - just a bit of ignorance and so much of dating at that time has to do with group acceptance and social proof, it was odd.

I realize now those intrinsic factors probably had less to do with it - rather it was my behavior. I was raised by a single mother and a lot of my view of how to treat women was programmed by a mom Who would lament her situation because of my father. TLDR: i was a nice guy. I was entirely too logical, a classic engineer, And I found teasing and bullying to be an annoying and deplorable method of flirting.

Oddly enough I wasn’t sexless. I lost my virginity in middle school, and I had had six female sexual partners by the time I graduated high school.

I could kiss, I could dance, my girlfriends were cute, some were cheerleaders and some drama club. But regardless of some success what you’re posting about is what I heard with the ones that I actually wanted to pursue. And it wasn’t just those who had outward beauty- classic 10’s. I wasn’t a model chaser.

In the end I realized I was giving out signals I now know as “provider signals”. I was honest and trustworthy and I had never cheated on anyone. I wasn’t quite boring, but I was a safe choice.

Simply put OP you are vanilla. I assume you are young, under 30, and the woman you are hitting on and being rejected by are looking for something a little more spicy and varied then Plain vanilla.

you have a couple of choices- The first one will be claimed the only choice by those women who also say they “can’t find any good men” and that’s a simply wait it out and eventually you’ll find your soulmate.

What I would recommend is that you try on a different suit. I don’t mean clothing. Be the Rake. If you don’t know what that means and think I’m talking about gardening you have a lot of learning to do. It’s important that you understand an experience what it’s like to be the guy that women break rules for, and the guy that women cheat with. You have to know that you are capable of not only overcoming those objections for being the guy that doesn’t get those kinds of rejections- even if you want to end up married as you say.

You do not want to resent your past and yourself for not having experienced the opposite of the type of behavior that is producing the nagging results you’re facing now.

It won’t corrupt you - I think you’ll come back to who you really are - but you need to know what it’s like to be the other type of guy for a bit.

[–]Dulce__CriaturaPurple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AldabruzzoI get to decide 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (139 children) | Copy Link

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[–]sigma1932 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The slut shaming is what stops women from having sex with a man they deem husband material quickly.

Men have figured out that, in 2021, women aren't pure, period-- we generally assume that you've slept around in some capacity by default.

As such, now men have to vet women for marriage at least as harshly as the women vet them (more harshly even... because men tend to get screwed much worse if the marriage doesn't work out).

The ironic thing is that these women are losing the men they want to marry more and more, even when he does like her for more than sex, by presenting themselves as uninterested in him sexually. which in turn means she's also not interested in him for a committed relationship that will actually benefit him along with her (i.e. she sending the message that sees him as a stooge, not a partner she respects.

[–]ChangeUsernameA6 points 4 years ago [recovered] (28 children) | Copy Link

Yeah , but if you previously fucked other people quicker. The current person you dating already sees you as a slut. So you holding out for him wouldn't make a difference.

You said that you don't care about a fwb judging or leaving you. Don't you think that the men you deam husband material would judge you ,for letting other guys sleep with you quicker.

[–]RayRayGD 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChangeUsernameA1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (24 children) | Copy Link

I don't know , I think that's a 50/50. There are many possible ways for him to find out

[–]RayRayGD 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChangeUsernameA1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (21 children) | Copy Link

Regardless of him not knowing.

Don't you think he deserves to know?

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The crazy thing is that

you would let the guy you like you would not want to be in a relationship with , sleep with you.

But the guy who you actually consider to be husband material, has a high chance of not sleeping with you.

Who do you think gained more, the fwb or the potential husband ?

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It's not preferable, but men like it because they don't need to bring much to the table, while the husband material has to work extremely hard in life to be the type of provider a women would settle for.

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Your comment made me wonder if all the men here who see being seen as "husband material" as an insult because it means the woman just wants to use him, are just projecting. When women see a man as husband material they mean "i love you and i want to spend the rest of my life with you" but maybe men can't realize this because they don't feel the same about women who they deem "wife material" , maybe they just see her as nothing but a useful reliable "good" bangmaid rather than someone they love, and they are just projecting their perspective onto women. How could they be so insulted by being seen as husband material, if they actually loved women who they themselves see as "wife material" for who they are, and not just see those women as nothing but useful??? If they actually loved women who were "wife material", how could they be insulted by being seen as "husband material"?

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Because marriages mean hard work and commitment with the promise of intimacy and companionship. You will inevitably see struggles in the marriage or any kind of long term relationship; practically speaking it’s not a happily ever after kind of thing. It’s something you have to work at. If you’re getting intimacy from people without putting in the time money or effort, even for a short while, where is the incentive to put into marriage with any one person? Because at that point you know you can attract people to eventually settle down with; you can make changes to your personality easier than you can change your physical characteristics if at all.

So to those men who are being told specifically, “you’re husband material, but not fwb material” you’re being told “to be with me you have to expend a considerable amount of time money and effort; I will enjoy the fruits of your labor that you put into your career, social capital, and into a relationship dynamic that I like”

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sure I see both sides. I personally try to take it in a positive spirit when it was said to me. But it does sting, along the lines of pretty girls who feel sad when they hear people praise her beauty, they wonder why they have no one.

There are people who say "husband material" as a compliment and it is also used as a soft rejection. Both happen, there are tons of friends who say this to me in the tone of "you are not my type but I can imagine you will make some girl really happy". They unironically believe that attraction is subjective enough and what I lack in the raw physical attraction department is not objectively bad but just a matter of compatibility. So while context matters, in a significant fraction of cases where such terms are used it explicitly, does not mean "she can imagine sleeping with him".

Once you are comfortable enough with a person to call them husband material, you can praise their butts or arms, shoulders, eyes, etc. I don't think the risk applies here because it is only risky to go around telling strangers they are physically attracted to them.

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Well has happened to me and other men. It's not intended as insult. It's usually said by friends who I have a one sided crush on, unrequited love. There are lots of terms for it - friend zone being another one. They want to lighten the blow of rejection so they try to focus on the good aspects of the guy - nice, kind, husband material, reliable. I think guys don't realize that these qualities are necessary but not sufficient for attraction, this leads these guys to the red pill.

I think you are thinking of this term being used as praise within the context of dating. That's why nocker Joe put it best... If someone who found you attractive enough to have sex with says it then it doesn't feel like an insult. Being physically attractive is not a “husband material” quality in everyone's mind. Marriage is way more than just sex. Lots of marriage continue with dead bedrooms.

In communication, what you didn't say is as important as what you didn't say. What aspects you choose to focus on. Again it's not a very mature take on this, ideally we should be able to admit that we aren't likely to be that physically attractive to most people. Logically it makes sense but emotionally it still hurts.

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Title	Why is being considered “Husband material” better than being fwb material
Author	Luciansleep
Upvotes	170
Comments	1096
Date	September 23, 2021 10:50 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/pu6q6l/why_is_being_considered_husband_material_better/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-is-being-considered-husband-material-better.1074701 https://theredarchive.com/post/1074701

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