How do red pillers explain the average guy being in a relationship?

odd_cloud · 2023-08-25T20:37:12+00:00

Ok, I don’t know how red pillers explain it, but I have my explanation.

Lots of people (like you it seems) think that 80/20 means that only 20% of men will ever be in a relationship. It is incorrect view in my opinion.

I think 80/20 means that 20% of men can have an easy dating life. If they want a hookup, they have it, if they want fling they have a fling, and so on. Probably you’ve heard that at certain workplaces there is a guy who slept with almost every woman. These guys belong to the 20 or some will say 10 percent.

Your ordinary guy has long dry spells between the times he finds a woman interested in him. Yeah, he may be in a relationship. But most likely he had no women for a couple of years before getting into a relationship. As this guy has no choice he just sticks to the woman who paid attention to him.

chocobolamo · 2023-08-25T20:33:19+00:00

I got fit and muscular and I got "i fucking love you" "you are a real man" "fuck me right now". When I was a little overweight girls would recoil or turn around in the super market when they saw me. None would ever want to have a conversation with me. None would ever show interest or bring up their imaginary boyfriend within two spoken sentences, I even heard "I will never listen to anything you ever say" as an opener.

Now waitresses eye fuck me in the restaurant. Smile and give IOI's everywhere I go. Accidentally touch my hand when handing me a receipt. The desire is obvious.

Women are just oblivious to how their attraction to a man dictates how they perceive that mans actions. It is my lived experience as a former 30 year old virgin.

I am now the whole package. Work in tech, fit, muscular, well educated, romantic, confident, charismatic, good in bed, assertive, financially competent. Women throw themselves at me.

Until you do the same you will never experience what true desire from a woman is. And true desire changes the game completely. Instead of you chasing them, you blow past them and they chase after you. And its important to have that relationship, because if shes failing to keep up she will constantly be trying to impress you or live up to your standard. She will behave better because she knows you can do better. Suddenly being yourself is OK because if she complains or goes off the rails she risks losing you, and she knows in a million years she will never find a man like you. That is what being in the 10% does to a woman. Its random blowjobs, sex every day or close to it, acts of service, loving & caring nature, purely from desire and the anxiety of you leaving her for someone better.

EyesOfMeridian · 2023-08-25T20:24:14+00:00

Red pill is obsessed with the idea that a man has to be the best to successfully navigate the perils of sex and relationships, but I’ve found that you generally have to be - or be able to produce the illusion of being - comfortably better than she is. In many ways this is what the red pill teaches, behavioural patterns that imply superiority. And that’s what actually matters, not being the epitome of the ultimate alpha, but being contextually alpha, in that you’re able to comfortably, confidently, and competently navigate the microcosmic world in which you live. Most men are not comfortable, confident, or competent.

BigZaddyZ3 · 2023-08-25T20:29:05+00:00

Are you sure about that?
While I don’t think Fresh n Fit are the best representation of the Redpill, I don’t recall them ever saying that you absolutely cannot get into a relationship if you aren’t top 10% as a man… That seems more like a weird assumption or a mischaracterization of the shit they typically say more than anything tbh. You’d have to provide actual evidence of them saying that verbatim in order for me to believe it. Because I’ve seen quite a few episodes and don’t recall them ever making that specific claim.

social_mules_alt · 2023-08-25T22:24:05+00:00

They do a number of things:

They pretend these men don't exist. As you and virtually every other sane person has pointed out numerous times, all you have to do is look outside and you'll see average looking men with average looking women and in some cases with their average looking children in tow. They're at flea markets, sporting events, theme parks, shopping malls, grocery stores, you name it. They are literally EVERY FUCKING WHERE and every fucking body sees them every fucking day.
They convince themselves that the women aren't really attracted to their men and only settled for them after decades of getting fucked by professional athletes, celebrities, oil tycoons, Saudi princes and members of the British royal family. I wish I was joking but I'm not. They are truly convinced that women who look like this are spending their teens and twenties getting fucked by men who look like this.
They call the men beta bucks. The premise here being that these men are bankrolling their wives/girlfriends or something to that effect. But that makes no sense because we're talking about average men. And I don't just mean average looking men but also average earning men. So apparently these women are getting with Jeff the forklift driver because of the lifestyle that his salary can provide. Again, I'm not making this shit up.

uselessloner123 · 2023-08-25T20:07:25+00:00

63% of men under 30 are single.

Chad is the top 20%.

So basically 17 of the remaining 80% of non-Chads under 30 are in relationships.

If you’re asking how this 17% are in relationships I would say they usually met their gf in high school or local church or have some fringe interest. Or they are just simps.

Suspicious-Bed-2717 · 2023-08-25T19:42:49+00:00

Basically, most average men are either single or in low quality relationships for the most part. What red pillers try to explain is that unless your in the top 10% of guys your going to have a difficulty getting hook ups and quality relationships. Of course it's a generalization I'm short and ugly and I managed to get 3 girl friends even if of course the relationships didn't last long on the basis of then being low quality relationships.

webernicke · 2023-08-25T19:54:14+00:00

Help me understand what they are trying to say, because it sounds delusional to me.

They are saying that the most likely way to get into a relationship where the man holds anywhere near an equal or superior level of influence, leverage, desire and attraction as the woman (i.e. a "good relationship") is if the man is in the top 10% of all men over looks/money/status.

Most average men are either in low quality relationships with a very unfavorable position, where the woman is just settling for him out of his usefulness/convenience and holds most of the power and leverage over the relationship (i.e. a "bad relationship") or they are single, or they are very lucky to not be in either of those situations.

Isn't that whole idea instantly disproven by walking outside and seeing average people in relationships?

So no, because just being "in a relationship" doesn't mean you're in a "good relationship" and, since women are much pickier than men are, the likelihood is that most average couples involve the man in being in an almost completely subordinate position to the woman's interests.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2023-08-25T20:30:00+00:00

The issue for unattractive men is not getting a relationship, it's being happy in a relationship.

I don't agree with all of the RP stuff but I agree that it's difficult for less attractive guys to maintain a woman's interest and ongoing sexuality in a relationship. In other words, unattractive guys often end up in unhappy relationships and dead bedrooms.

Personally I don't believe this is true across the board and don't think "all women are like that" but, according to my personal experience and observations of my friends, it is more difficult for less attractive guys to have a satisfying relationship.

I believe this is relative to the woman's own attractiveness, so you don't have to be in the top 10%, you just have to be perceived as being among the very best options that the woman could get, including for casual sex. So you can be a 6 as long as she's a 4 or maybe a 5. If you're both 6s she will get attention from 8s and may believe that's her level, even if she has no chance of locking down an 8.

WonderingOrion · 2023-08-25T21:10:12+00:00

Because these men (Fresh and Fit, redpillers,...) are not talking about serious long-term relationships. When you listen closely, you understand it's all about getting as many women as possible interested in them to hookup.

Proof is none of these men are happily married with a beautiful wife and 3 children despite being well into their thirties. They ony want to stay single and always have options to fuck whenever they want with whoever they can, and it often happens to be the same 22 year old party girls they're so quick to criticize and demonize for doing the same.

-snickerss- · 2023-08-25T19:55:51+00:00

AF/BB is pretty much the shield which protects us red pillers from things like "I know a short guy who's in a relationship, so all your claims must be wrong!"

The girl could be someone who's single, wanted a relationship but couldn't find an attractive enough guy. I mean, why would she choose the average guy if she had attractive guys in her social circle? IMO, you should be the best possible option to her if you want a happy relationship.

CringeButCorrect · 2023-08-25T19:58:22+00:00

I'm not a red piller, but the average young dude is actually single, not in a relationship. This average dude can get laid once or twice a year but can't get genuine desire. Once he gets older, he will have an easier time with 30s women because all of their options ran out and it's time to settle. This isn't my view on things but this seems to be the RP stance on this.

mc0079 · 2023-08-25T20:26:55+00:00

Assortative Mating. TRP rarely acknowledges this true and well vetted concept

fiftypoundpuppy · 2023-08-25T19:43:40+00:00

It's easy.

Just split everyone neatly into either one of two super accurate categories: Alpha, or Beta.

If you're not an Alpha, you're de facto a Beta and you're being "settled for" by a woman who actually has no genuine attraction to you and just wants you for your resources and possibly children. She will also get bored of you eventually and divorce you, taking "half your shit" because women don't have jobs and never financially contribute in any way to their household.

pagenotfound000 · 2023-08-26T00:29:26+00:00

The average guy is with an average woman and they can connect with her on some level.

Red pillers don't want average women. They want this image of a woman that they have built and analyzed in their heads. They're usually awkward, pessimistic men with OCD tendencies and this translates into their obsession with women being conventionally physically attractive and everything else they want her to be, regardless of who they are and what they bring to a relationship. Most people get together because they are similar at least in some way. These men are so far apart from the women they desire in their heads and build an idealized image of.

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FutureBannedAccount2 · 2023-08-25T22:19:31+00:00

I was listening to these two people called "Fresh and Fit" on a podcast

There's your problem

xxxMisogenes · 2023-08-26T00:47:39+00:00

The pill answer is 'beta bucks'. Average guys pay for dates and pay the lionshare of expenses and even do more houseswork. The more 'alpha males' are able to hookup with women with next to no investment

this_isnotatroll · 2023-08-26T01:00:01+00:00

I don’t think they’re talking about relationships I think they’re talking about getting to hook up with girls you barely know

Dune587 · 2023-08-26T04:12:18+00:00

Not that I’m overly “Red Pill” but, personally I’d say it’s a combo of lower standards + survivorship bias.

Low standards in the sense that many men will get in ANY relationship even if it’s unhealthy/one sided, and/or with an unattractive woman, because they think that beats loneliness. The non-fuckboi element of Red Pill is interested in finding good, attractive, loyal women, not the bottom of the barrel.

And survivorship bias in the sense that sure you can go outside and see tons of men in relationships but, you’re not really picking up on all the single men (nor can you even tell at a glance how many of them are single). You’re not going around counting all the depressed men who didn’t even go outside that day because they’ve been alone for years. You’re not counting the men who are smiling on the outside to keep up appearances but who are in a loveless, sexless marriage and might as well not even be in a relationship at all, etc. you’re seeing what appears to be a lot of men in apparently successful relationships but you’re not seeing the full picture at just a glance.

afk_row · 2023-08-26T12:19:33+00:00

false premise, most young men are single.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/

question for you, how do you explain the fact that most young men are single even though most young women are not single?

Glass_Bucket · 2023-08-25T19:53:13+00:00

It’s almost like fringe weirdos on the internet don’t represent reality, lol

Go to your local shopping mall and you’ll see tons of fat, ugly, short men with girlfriends

SolidusMonkey · 2023-08-25T20:42:43+00:00

Easy. The average guy ISN'T in a relationship. We know this for a fact.

Simple as.

Capybara_88 · 2023-08-25T20:25:24+00:00

Going outside does dispell a lot of red pill beliefs. The thing you are missing is that a lot of these guys live online and never go outside.

belachewhm · 2023-08-25T20:28:55+00:00

She loves him conditionally and temporarily. As long as the conditions are acceptable the love is ON. When the conditions become unacceptable for her the love turns OFF. I guess that’s fine when you’re dating, but I laugh whenever I hear a woman taking wedding vows.

The “average” men in those relationships created a situation where the conditions were acceptable, but it’s not permanent. She’s not his, it’s just his turn.

Medium_Listen_9004 · 2023-08-25T20:57:15+00:00

The red pill is a very very strange worldview

Clementinequeen95 · 2023-08-25T20:02:53+00:00

Men on this sub are men who don’t get dates. Then men who do get dates are off the internet lmaoooo.

purplish_possum · 2023-08-25T21:22:23+00:00

The 80/20 rule doesn't mean average guys are shutout. It just means they have to work hard for scraps and leftovers.

Solopist112 · 2023-08-25T20:55:03+00:00

You are correct. It can be confirmed by casual observation in a public place like a park or the DMV. Look around. You see couples of all shapes, sizes, and attractiveness.

szclimber · 2023-08-25T21:31:50+00:00

Many of these guys take what they can get. They might spend years single and then enter in a relationship that is mediocre. There is often drama, resentment, cheating, etc.

DzejSiDi · 2023-08-25T21:40:32+00:00

I have even harder question: why one of top selling cars is Toyota Corolla, when people asked for their dream car rarely mention it?! Mind explaining that?

Or even let's stay purely in relationships topic: why I see so many men with old and fat wifes, if men are atracted to young and fit women?

And if you don't have wealth, height/looks, status, you won't be getting any attention from modern women.

It depends on expectations, and those are nowadays are usually really inflated among young women. If you don't have those in enough quantity to meet the bar you will fall from "yes!" to "eh, maybe" category. And why aim and give attention to "ok" if you deserve better my kween? So they won't be really interested, at least not in the beginning.

As a guy can really and sincerely like his 10 years old Honda Civic, which is definitely not a Lamborghini he wanted, in the same way women can like or even love his typical Bobby. On average women won't be so lovely and enthusiastic to you compared to top 10%, which sucks, but as one women wrote "Fck The Spark And Other Ways To Not Die Alone" *shrug

And how much women will go back to earth with expectations in time? People estimate that it will be around half of the population: https://medium.com/hello-love/study-predicts-45-of-women-will-be-single-by-2030-1fbc99bad6a8

Appropriate-Ad-8030 · 2023-08-25T21:17:40+00:00

63% of guys under the age of 30 aren’t even dating…who is this average guy you speak of

MrBrittle · 2023-08-25T19:46:54+00:00

Reasons:

Not all women;
AF/BB;
30+ men are more attractive and have options.

gntlbastard · 2023-08-25T20:25:22+00:00

The chick in question settled for the average guy. Wasn't her first choice but this is the best she could do since her turn at musical dicks was winding down and none of the dicks she wanted were available.

Barneysparky · 2023-08-25T19:47:29+00:00

Any average guy in a relationship has a dead bedroom while she off screwing Chad. He also pays for everything.

scwizard · 2023-08-25T20:02:22+00:00

A lot of average guys are in relationships because they date women of lower self esteem.

I live in Texas and a lot of guys at my church end up marrying girls from Alabama or Mississippi. Average means in Austin Texas is wealthy in those places.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2023-08-25T20:16:59+00:00

Isn't that whole idea instantly disproven by walking outside and seeing average people in relationships?

what garantee you have those peoples outside are in relationships? It's something I see often, peoples go outside see a men and a woman together and "see see see it's a couple in a relationship". What I see a lot, and I say a lot it's dates with the girl that think her smartphone is far more interesting than the guy in front of her or older peoples.

throwaway164_3 · 2023-08-25T21:21:10+00:00

Alpha fucks/beta bucks

mvnnyvevwofrb · 2023-08-25T21:45:27+00:00

A lot of red pillers are probably below average in some respect, like not being neurotypical. They are definitely not the Andrew Tates and Kevin Samuels of the world. But to me that just proves the point. There's insurmountable barriers for dating for some men only. And women can be extremely cruel and manipulative toward certain men only, for things they have absolutely no control over. If you don't have the right kind of temperament, or you're not neurotypical or have the wrong attachment style, or you're ugly, then you can basically expect women to treat you like trash.

babazuki · 2023-08-25T21:49:12+00:00

Who cares whomst those women are with? They're in relationships. They're taken. They found a guy they like and they're with him.

The important thing to pay attention to is who is getting attention from single women.

You can't expect dudes to just sit around wait for their turn with the reasonable women that are happy with average guys. There are too many single average dudes for that to work.

Get more money, get in shape, and make something of yourself is pretty solid and reasonable advice to give single guys that get no attention.

"Look there's a guy like you with a gf!" Doesn't help anyone. What is the guy supposed to make of that? It just breeds complacency based on a false hope that a women is going to fall into his lap because he deserves her.

TheLonerCoder · 2023-08-25T22:51:49+00:00

They aren't though.. Aren't like 60% of men single lol. And I would be curious to see what % of men in "relationships" are just FWBs or in "situationships".

Whiskeyjack1982 · 2023-08-25T22:55:53+00:00

The average guy is in a transactional relationship. He needs to provide lots of benefits for her to stick around. This is the guy that she settled for and if she can get a 10% guy she will drop the average guy in a heartbeat.

The top 10% get women without providing anything.

Bubbly_Pension4020 · 2023-08-25T19:52:30+00:00

I think some of the claims are too exaggerated, but I also think that a lot of the normie relationships are often plagued with dead bedrooms and starfish sex. You can tell some couples aren’t that passionate about eachother.

DerayRevan · 2023-08-25T19:58:27+00:00

Ok there's two misinterpreting here

1) looks,status,money are the things that can get the average woman's attention

2) that those men get attention from women

The top 10% of men get the MOST attention from women not that they are the only ones getting attention from women

Generally_Confused1 · 2023-08-25T20:35:21+00:00

Your first mistake was listening to that podcast in the first place. Not that I have ever listened to it, but every time I see it mentioned it's just plain bullshit, lies and projection of insecurities. You're "high value" if you value yourself and try to do what's right for you.

SlowEffective8146 · 2023-08-25T21:28:55+00:00

Average men can get relationships, they just get treated like shit in them. They have to jump through hoops for attention, sex, love, everything.

Being a high value man, you literally just exist and get all of these things for free.

Icy_Ordinary2025 · 2023-08-25T21:37:26+00:00

A lack of understanding the difference between average and below average.

It is delusional thinking.

SorryEm · 2023-08-25T21:57:25+00:00

At 30 they get married to another 30-year-old woman. She's also overweight, big whoop. Right now most men under 30 arent even in relationships.

pinealpresence · 2023-08-25T22:46:47+00:00

Isn't that whole idea instantly disproven by walking outside and seeing average people in relationships?

I would say no. A simple counter argument to your point is that those men aren't with women who are truly satisfied. Hence why women initiate divorce at a much higher rate.

An average guy can get into a relationship for a moment, sure, but then get left within weeks, months, however long it takes for the girl to accept that he's not enough for her.

Also, I think the meaning of male "average"-ness has been lost. The looks threshold has risen; people will say "my ugly guy friend gets dates" while he's conventionally average at worst.

DecisionPlastic9740 · 2023-08-25T23:01:48+00:00

Women are attracted to 10% of the men. Those men will never commit so women end up in relationships with men they aren't attracted to.

eye_of_gnon · 2023-08-25T23:04:56+00:00

It IS disproven when you see normal guys dating women everywhere.

The reason is what people WANT isn't what they actually date in real life. Most men want a 10/10 supermodel, but date average chicks. No reason to assume that women are different.

Fluxbyte · 2023-08-26T00:57:02+00:00

Do you actually see these couples where you go outside tho? you probably don't even look well at the people walking past you, are these dudes you are seeing really average? or better yet, these dudes are actually well above average but your insane hypergamy prevents you from seeing this and makes you believe they're actually average?

TammyMeatToy · 2023-08-25T20:11:37+00:00

They don't.

Eater0fChildren · 2023-08-25T21:10:31+00:00

An average guy can still be in a relationship if he has a good social circle or luck. It's wrong to say being tall, wealthy, etc. are requirements for relationships, but they certainly help.

AreOut · 2023-08-25T21:40:24+00:00

you can be in a relationship and still have a very rough love life, I mean most redpillers were once average guys in a relationship(me included)

TheCultOfGrogg · 2023-08-25T22:05:55+00:00

For the same reason most people want to be celebrities instead but take some job they hate where they’re overworked and underpaid.

I’ll help you out, they settle because not everyone can have the best.

Khanluka · 2023-08-25T22:39:18+00:00

Well if you follow the 80/20% that means 20% of woman have no problem dating the average men. Meaning 40% of men have no dating problems.

Shoddy-Donut-9339 · 2023-08-25T22:49:26+00:00

Yes these couples of average people disprove pill thinking.

People that don’t want relationships and don’t want to love and be loved can refuse to settle for their equal. They can say although I am only a 6 I demand a 9 or I will just remain single.

But a pair of 3s can marry, be attracted to each other, love each other and raise children together.

Feminists can insist that they are happier without a man. Insist that men are just trouble. Darwinian evolution will favor men and women that want to join forces to make a good environment for children to grow up in.

Look at all those couples of average people; they are proof that the idiot pill men and the more idiotic subgroups of feminists are wrong.

There was a problem with men being unfair to women so I approve of feminism but feminism does not outrank Darwinian desire for a mate and children.

Male pill ideologies are the idiotic outgrowths of copes that unwanted immature men and ugly beta men and heartless psychopathic men use to feel better about themselves.

Pill ideologies are not scientific.

If you want a woman try loving one. Loving is not about politeness or having a steady job. Loving is not about lust. Figure out what love is. Love does attract.

Love does not require being loved back. Just love whoever is there and you will probably attract women.

If you don’t have looks then love, or be fun or funny or interesting and you still will have a good chance to attract a woman or attract a man.

Fire_Stoic14 · 2023-08-25T23:31:52+00:00

With the 80/20 rule, what Fresh and Fit are saying is that 100% of the women are only attracted to the top 20% of men. It could be 90/10 but FnF claims it's 80/20.

Most men like most women while most women do not like most men, which explains their hypergamy and how selective they can be when picking partners. Also, just because women are attracted to only 20% of guys doesn't mean every single one of them will actually get with those guys. So they either become single for life with cats or settle with a more average man, or they share a guy.

kvakerok · 2023-08-25T23:46:37+00:00

"Get knocked up by a Chad and have those kids taken care of by some beta chump" is the most classic of all scenarios, as old as recorded human history.

Most women are interested in the genes of the top 10% of men, if those men also have resources, that's just a bonus. That's why muscular jocks will always get laid.

antariusz · 2023-08-26T00:13:05+00:00

Simple.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/

31% of men are not in any relationship (or situationship) at all. So because I'm casually dating a bunch of different women, I count as "in a relationship"

And as other people said it better 80% of women are competing for 20% of men.

https://medium.com/yardcouch-com/new-study-shows-why-80-of-women-only-date-20-of-men-3f27432757ce

1 Profile got "liked" by 80% of all women. So if anything it's not the 80/20 rule it's more like the 80/1 rule... or 95/5 whatever you want to call it. Think about your own personal experience, do you match with 80% of women on tinder? If the answer is no, you aren't that top 1% man. And that's ok. She'll settle for you when she can't get time/sex/attention from that 1% man. And the red pill basically says, try not to be the person she has to settle for.

Women enjoy social relationships (family, friends), they wish they could get the top man for a (sexual relationship), but eventually the societal urge for her to be "serious" and not out fucking a new Chad every weekend weighs on her and she'll settle for what she can get to commit to her.

iassureyouimreal · 2023-08-26T00:52:44+00:00

The average marriage don’t last…. He get all is money taken

Content_Feedback_573 · 2023-08-26T00:54:46+00:00

It's 100% true when it comes to online dating i.e. if you're 8+ then you're living life on god mode. In real life you need to be at least 5-7 to get anything. And if you're closer to 5 than 7, then you will go years without so much as a kiss.

If you're <5 then forget it.

Spare-Estimate5596 · 2023-08-26T01:21:19+00:00

Average guys are not in realthionships. 45% of men 18-50 are single. 63% of men 18-28 are single. According to pew research. Now look wt the same numbers for women. Its half. Women are sharing the same guys

Coolio_Street_Racer · 2023-08-26T01:33:41+00:00

I think people try to disprove RP by taking it to absolutes. It is in generalities. As women generally gravitate towards the top 20% of men due too have similar attributes. Of course there will be outliers.

These men get to fuck around, have their pick of the litter for gfs, and honestly much better quality relationships than guys who are not in the 20%.

But for women it's not like that. Yes higher percentile women also get similar benefits. But it's not quite as ruthless as it is for men. You can be in the top 40% and still have a pretty fulfilling dating life as women.

harmonica2 · 2023-08-26T01:37:14+00:00

Fresh and Fit always talk about women who are more on the slim side though, where as most average guys I know are dating overweight women, not that that's bad at all, but I am just saying, not sure if Fresh and Fit are counting that.

lolthankstinder · 2023-08-26T01:52:44+00:00

The primary demographic of men frustrated with dating tends to be around 18-30ish. There was that infamous Pew research publication earlier this year that found 63% of 18-29 men were single compared to only 34% of 18-29 women... well that same study showed only 25% of guys 30-49 as single. "Fresh and fit" is only considering women appealing to their target audience which is most likely "fresh and fit" women.

SO let's say "fresh" means 18-30 women, according to census.gov that is about 17% of women. And googling around it looks like a BMI of 25.0 is the 45th percentile for both men and women for age 18-24, so let's just guesstimate that about half of women aren't that "fit" which would mean that "fresh and fit" women account for about 8.5% of women.

Now of the 8.5% of women that are actually fresh and fit, according to some wikipedia US sexual relationship age disparity stats, about 85% of women prefer a man of roughly the same age or older, and 19.6% the husband is 2-3 years older, 12.8% 4-5 years older, so on and so forth. So not only are "fresh and fit" women only 8.5% of the population, but many are also willing to consider older guys. Let's say "older guys" are up to 40. According to census.gov that is about 31.89% of the male population vying for 8.5% of "fresh and fit" women.

In summary, "fresh and fit" women are, sadly, already the top 10% of women just by being young and not fat so it's technically not that crazy to say they only go for the top 10% of guys. However, even if you scope that down, a fit young 20-year old male is still competing against guys all the way up into their 30s for the attention of similarly-aged women. Many fit young women get so much attention that they will obviously start out with the "best" options and just slowly work their way down until they eventually reach a comparably desirable average guy that was able to survive all the sexual neglect and still manage to gain some relationship experience and not despise women.

honeycall · 2023-08-26T02:02:46+00:00

Nihi1986 · 2023-08-26T03:56:29+00:00

1- Plenty of men settle for the first woman who wants to be with them. Being in a relationship with literally anyone isn't difficult unless you are incel, and average =/= incel.

2- Plenty of seemingly average men are actually very wealthy and you won't necessarily see it. This could be the early 20's guy with a massive house in the beach (owned by his parents), a car he doesn't pay for and a flat/house in the best spot in the city.

3- yes, some average guys are lucky enough to be with a decent girl. They likely met at the right time and he was what she needed. Plenty of couples are basically just 'so...from my group of friends, who's still single? Billy? Billy is considered cool in the group!' (like literally everyone else in the group).

4- average guys can still cause a first good impression, if they act quickly enough, that can get them into a relationship. Once you are in a relationship, there's basically a new set of rules. People here will tell you how you have to seduce her everyday and be attractive... In reality you just have to become a good provider of whatever she needs (fun, money, safety, sex...all of that or just one of those things, it depends on the girl and context, and it might change without much warning).

5- the average guy isn't in a relationship. Plenty of average guys are in a relationship but also plenty of average guys aren't in one.

If you are average, it basically takes just having your shit together and socializing a bit, that's how you have acces to a relationship. If have that but still can't get into one, you are aimming too high wasting your time with the wrong girls or you just aren't as average as you thought you were and are some sort of semi incel.

Most_Read_1330 · 2023-08-26T07:11:16+00:00

Average men can still get in relationships but it's a lot harder. They have to do everything right. The top 10% men gets a lot more leeway.

_weedkiller_ · 2023-08-26T09:32:07+00:00

I think they key here is walking outside. Lots of Red Pillers don’t. So they just believe what their YT algorithm tells them. If they do go outside their cognitive bias distorts what they see.

Mr_Makak · 2023-08-26T11:16:10+00:00

Luck. I am an average guy in a relationship. Not due to my stellar personality, or my non-toxic masculinity, or the insane amount of showers or whatever. I got lucky. That's it.

beleidigtewurst · 2023-08-26T13:57:03+00:00

Isn't that whole idea instantly disproven by walking outside and seeing average people in relationships?

Depends how on defines "interested". If it is "aroused sexually" it's not disproved, is it? (I don't get why people refer to real findings as "red pilers say")

More to it, it also explains why every second couple ends up divorcing and why majority of divorces are initiated by female side.

LoopyPro · 2023-08-26T15:36:42+00:00

She settles for less, he dates down.

There might be attraction towards the guy from a pragmatic point of view, but no genuine desire.

AloneOnTheStrange · 2023-08-26T17:08:56+00:00

I don't think for a second that you need to be a super Chad to get a woman to want to be in relationship with you. Nor do I think all less than Chadly relationships are beta bux.

Realistically, there's probably a whole lot of things that aren't talked about in rep pill communities that make average guys appealing to these women. Maybe women like them because while there's nothing particularly great about them, there's nothing bad either. Maybe they just like someone who's inoffensive. Maybe they just like someone who fits in and doesn't stand out. Maybe women like the power imbalance of being the more attractive one. Beta comfort is a thing, even if it's not talked about much.

As for the red pill, I guess the logic is that if you're making a concious effort to improve yourself. You're better off making yourself more alpha rather than comfortably beta.

Plus I'd say the alpha stuff is more trainable. It's both not very easy to train someone to be closer to average, and also not very admirable. Telling someone to hit the gym, learn skills, and be the best version of themselves is great. Telling someone to sand down their rough edges so they don't offend people isn't.

Durmyyyy · 2023-08-26T18:57:07+00:00

Fresh and fit are a joke

Title	How do red pillers explain the average guy being in a relationship?
Author	Bizzyguy
Upvotes	74
Comments	394
Date	August 25, 2023 7:38 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1618xr7/how_do_red_pillers_explain_the_average_guy_being/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-do-red-pillers-explain-the-average-guy-being.1229757 https://theredarchive.com/post/1229757

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