The stats on growing ideological divide between men and women shows men's ideals have relatively remained the same yet women are increasingly becoming radical, yet all the discussion is about "young men being radicalized"... exposes a clear agenda pushed by society

Free-Neighborhood-31 · 2025-12-10T01:33:17+00:00

Women "choosing" to work seems like a disingenuous point because it implies that women previously chose the role of homemaker when they were actually barred from doing anything different. In reality, they just have all of the options that should have been on the board in the first place.

captainkaiju · 2025-12-09T19:44:06+00:00

The ideological divide is well documented, yes. But placing all of the responsibility (the nebulous terms of wife and mother, which entail a lot of different roles) on women for housework/childcare and implying that having a career is an OPTION and not a REQUIREMENT is just not a valid point. Most women do not get to choose to just be a wife and mother. Most families cannot survive on one income. How are you supposed to survive financially if you decide to be a layabout until you meet a man? Additionally, is it a good idea to stick to “traditional roles” that dictate that a father should be absent and not help with the housework or the kids? Is that a recipe for a happy home? Because methinks part of women’s moving away from traditional gender roles comes from the fact that we don’t want to be pigeonholed into being the only caregiver and homemaker forever.

Content_Concert_2555 · 2025-12-10T05:13:03+00:00

You are ignoring the reactionary nature of Tate gaining a following, of abortion bans in the US, and a bunch of other sexually regressive attitudes driven largely by men.

Flightlessbirbz · 2025-12-10T00:04:41+00:00

Most women do not actually have a choice to work or not, pursuing a career is necessary to have autonomy since money is necessary to live. I don’t care what anyone says on this, no money of your own = being at the mercy of someone else, and I think it’s as clear as day why women did not want that anymore. And now the economy is such that staying home is not even an option for most women… which isn’t ideal but is far better than the alternative.

Men are not forced to adapt by taking on their share of parenting and household duties, they are free to remain single or at least childfree. But women are also not obliged to marry men who won’t adapt.

Likewise, women don’t have to be okay with marrying someone who makes less or the same as them, but if they want to marry a man, this is something they’ll have to get used to.

Once again, men aren’t obligated to date women they consider “304s” or too old, and women aren’t obligated to worry about their body counts or marry young for men whose values don’t even align with theirs to begin with. These are very personal choices everyone must weigh for themselves.

What is “radical” completely depends on one’s perspective. None of this would be considered at all “radical” by most of the first world outside of the US. Progress is not without growing pains, but is necessary… otherwise we’d still be living in hunter-gatherer societies.

ChewedMyWayOutOfThat · 2025-12-09T20:41:25+00:00

You have everything fucking backwards.

women CHOSE to also pursue careers, now they also have to juggle their traditional gender roles (being a wife and mother).

Women choose to have jobs for the same reason men have jobs, so they don't end up homeless and poor. We like having food and heat and clothes and we don't want to be dependent on men because the first thing men do when they have the financial advantage over women is to be abusive shitheads.

They're mad at men for not accommodating them for a choice they themselves made

They're mad at men because men are entitled and lazy and refuse to do their fair share of childcare and chores. Women have taken over 50% of the men's financial responsibility and pressure to provide, but men have not reciprocated and taken over 50% of the responsibility of the chores and childcare. Men expect to work their 40 hours, do their bullshit chores that take 2 seconds (garbage) or are once a year (unclogging pipes, oil changes) and call it even. The rest of the time, they're sitting on the couch doing jack shit. The women works her 40 hours and does everything else.

Women have essentially become radicalized, while men have stayed the same

Women join causes that raise the living standard for everyone. Men join far right organzations that try to subjugate women and take away abortion rights and no-fault divorce. Who benefits from forcing women into gender roles, taking away abortion rights and no-fault divorce. Hey, guess what? It's shitty, abusive men.

growing trend of men opting out

Men opt out because they're lazy and entitled and expect things to drop into their laps without doing work, like how the patriarchy enabled men for millenia. Patriarchy is DEI for men.

MyLastBestChance · 2025-12-10T00:00:36+00:00

Yes, (some) men still want to own a woman of their very own, (after sampling all of the women they wants to of course).

(Some) men feel that if they go to work 40 hours a week, every other minute of their lives should be catered to, exactly as they want it to be, by their quiet, smiling, beautiful women, who have no desire other than serving, with no further effort required by them.

They want to be fathers insofar as it’s convenient and fun. A pat on the head, a picturesque game of catch with an athletically gifted son, a quiet, angelic, pretty daughter who worships her daddy, etc etc. (as long as those children quietly exit stage left after the “fatherhood moment” is over).

Basically they want to star in their own personal 50’s TV commercial but with a game controller instead of a newspaper…

They view women’s voices, personhood and autonomy as an irritating, anomalous inconvenience that someone really needs to get rid of for the good of women and society…

cuteceratopss · 2025-12-09T19:40:14+00:00

"Women CHOSE to also pursue careers" - if a woman is single, widowed, has a disabled husband, or is simply not independently wealthy, what alternative do you suggest for her besides employment? Needing income to survive in modern society isn't some sort of radical feminist ideology.

GlitterDollMUA · 2025-12-09T23:13:33+00:00

'Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man...' - El Duderino

'liberal' ≠ 'radicalised'

women in relationships complaining about "unpaid labour" at home. . . . i.e. women CHOSE to also pursue careers, now they also have to juggle their traditional gender roles (being a wife and mother). They're mad at men for not accommodating them for a choice they themselves made

I mean... sure, that's one way to look at things. It's a weird way, but it is a way. So it seems that you think the domestic realm is exclusively a woman's domain? I mean you MIGHT claim otherwise, but you imply here, that the issue isn't the domestic parts, its the career part. She CHOSE to pursue a career, and now she has the gall to complain about doing her job, aka childrearing and other stuff you seem to think are beneath you.

women complaining about having to "date down". . . . i.e. they've entered the workforce to become equal to men, now there are less men who are higher SES than them, so they have less options

How does this relate to your argument that women are becoming more 'radicalised?' I mean, you're not making a real value statement here, you're implying that men are either less ambitious, or less capable than women, but you're not relating that to your point in any clear way. So... it's just a gripe you have? You're upset women what, went to university?

women complaining about men dating young, caring about bodies, and becoming PPBs. . . . i.e. women embraced the sexual revolution, but are mad that men don't want to wife 304s

This is a hasty generalization. Sure SOME women might actively complain about the 'passport bros,' but most of us just think they're gross, and literally that's the extent of how much we care about it. As for women embracing the sexual revolution, and getting mad men don't want to date dirty, dirty girls. . . I mean, I'm sure there are SOME women like that. There are a lot of people. I do not believe that most women would really feel like that's representative of their experiences.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, men, like women, are not monoliths. Men aren't all the same, neither are women. We don't all respond, or think, or believe the same things, even with the same information. If 2 women, both are, let's say 'pretty' but not like supermodel stunningly beautiful, they're both, let's say 25. One girl has had 3 sexual partners, the other has had 30. From that information alone, you can't predict who will be married in a year, and who will be single; who will be happy, fulfilled, full of regret, or depressed.

Literal porn stars get married. This thing you're complaining about, it's not some cultural phenomenon; I think this might be that you're seeing data (the graphs you mention), and making one of the cardinal sins of science/analysis/research: Correlation does not imply causation.

selfishstars · 2025-12-09T22:16:14+00:00

The idea that women are becoming “radical” while men are staying the same ignores what actually changed. Women’s material conditions shifted sharply. Loss of reproductive rights, higher maternal mortality, the explosion of childcare and housing costs, stagnant wages forcing dual incomes, and a surge in misogyny all change how people think and organize. Politics follows lived pressure. That is not radicalization, it’s response to strain. Men appearing “stable” does not mean neutral. It means their social position has not been disrupted in the same way.

“Unpaid labour,” “dating down,” and men becoming PPBs are not examples of women pushing ideology. They are symptoms of a system where women took on more paid work because wages collapsed, while still doing most domestic and care labour because men’s roles did not shift at the same pace. The dating-market shift is the predictable result of women gaining education and income in a system that once guaranteed men higher status by default. The sexual double standard being defended as natural is simply patriarchy protecting male freedom while punishing women for the same behaviour.

To understand why women’s politics move while men’s appear static, you have to look at the system itself. Patriarchal capitalism treats women’s bodies and unpaid labour as infrastructure for everything else: pregnancy, childcare, eldercare, cooking, cleaning, emotional labour. This subsidizes men’s time, careers, and political stability. Sociology shows women’s unpaid work is massive and invisible. Psychology shows girls are trained into responsibility while boys are trained into entitlement to care. Anthropology shows patriarchy hardened when property and inheritance required control over women’s labour and sexuality. Black feminism shows how race and gender combine to place Black women at the heaviest point of extraction.

Men as a group benefit through higher wages, more leisure, more autonomy, and fewer social penalties. Women, especially working-class and racialized women, pay the costs through unpaid labour, economic precarity, restricted autonomy, and worse health.

Women are not shifting politically because of ideology alone. They are responding to pressure that is now unavoidable. Men appearing unchanged is not neutrality. It is the privilege of being shielded from the disruptions women are being forced to absorb.

Redpill rhetoric gets things wrong because it pretends to be rooted in science when it is not supported by real science, history, anthropology, psychology, or sociology. It borrows the language of biology and “data” to make its claims sound inevitable, but those claims collapse when you actually look across human societies and historical evidence. It feels convincing to many men not because it’s accurate, but because it fits their lived experience inside a system designed to benefit them. When a social order gives you comfort, autonomy, and unearned authority, it is easy to mistake that position for objective truth. And when you are taught, implicitly or explicitly, that women are inferior or less credible, you have no incentive to seriously examine their experiences or the research that contradicts your worldview. So redpill ideology does not persist because it is correct. It persists because it flatters those who benefit from the system and shields them from having to question it.

attendquoi · 2025-12-09T21:36:47+00:00

I don't really know any women who are concerned about men opting out. If a pussy is a guy's only motivation for having a job, I can't imagine he's a valuable employee.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2025-12-09T20:51:52+00:00

Thank you, another day of reaffirming that the man I’m married to is worth more than his weight off gold. He is out here being an amazing husband and father and living a great life.

KayRay1994 · 2025-12-10T12:04:17+00:00

“They’ve remained the same” is exactly how tons of right wing propaganda operate.

Remind me, which party has actively turned more and more to fascism and are attempting to enforce norms?

Also, I like that a whole section of your post is “women complain about labour. Yet they CHOOSE to get jobs and are mad that men aren’t accommodating” - this is basically you saying “if she just shut up and stayed in the kitchen we wouldn’t be here” - then again that’s the whole crux of your post, cause your “men haven’t changed” is pretty much “MAGA. make America like the 50s” rhetoric - and that period was abnormally patriarchal, even in comparison to past decades. In fact I can get into a whole essay about how 50s nostalgia is more based around marketing from the time, and that the 50s themselves wasn’t the historic norm, but rather, a failed societal model - but I won’t get into that now cause that’s a whole tangent.

Point is, your argument is disingenuous because the figures more men support are increasingly hostile, and the “women changed” dynamic you described is basically you mad that relationships have to be more equal now

ivegotcharisma · 2025-12-09T20:49:14+00:00

We "chose" careers, sure. That's because we were told that we shouldn't rely on men anymore to take care of us. And honestly, good thing. My husband cheated on me and if I had been a SAHM it would have been much harder to leave him if I didn't have a career of my own.

I would have loved to be a SAHM with the right man who didn't hold that shit over my head and actually believed that work in the home was valuable. But those men are hard to find.

Fragrant-Half4762 · 2025-12-09T19:25:18+00:00

Women benefit from the liberal progressive status quo of western society, men dont, its reflected in voting patterns. Women want to push even further into this direction, men want the opposite.

ThatBitchA · 2025-12-09T19:43:55+00:00

So it's radical to expect the male in the household to do chores and child rearing?

WanabeInflatable · 2025-12-09T19:35:08+00:00

I was agreeing with you until your argument about unpaid labor. It is not women's fault if their partners offload domestic labor on them. Blaming women for not being housewives is so cringe.

Downtown_Cat_1745 · 2025-12-09T20:39:45+00:00

If you think that men are entitled to unpaid labor from women when women don’t need men to survive, what’s the benefit of having men?

Disastrous_Agent9307 · 2025-12-09T21:13:57+00:00

Let me put it to you this way: if the whole world becomes like the Jetsons and you refuse to join and keep living like a Flinstone....you are ideologically radical. Now, yes to you, the rest of the world will seem ideologically radical....but they aren't the ones ignoring the forward march of time and there's more of them and their ideology is running the halls of power more.

Ok, so if you now consider that men are more disagreeable and women are more agreeable, you're going to get a tendency for men to be the Flinstones and women to be the Jetsons. Why? Because change is inevitable, and while everyone resists it clearly the disagreeable group will do so better and for longer than the agreeable group.

Now, if you dig down and look at the ideologies in question, you have to understand the word radical in that context is typically applied in cases of violence, danger, threat, and you know it's typically negative, it's not a sign of how much someone has or hasn't changed since any particular time or in comparison to anyone else. And well, I'm sorry but the red pill and tate and misogyny tend to be a bit more dangerous than liberal feminism in a I dunno like shooting people or beating the billiards off them sense. And certainly in a the person who believes this harming themselves sense.

So if you look at these contexts, I think you can probably understand why the word radical is getting applied to the men and not the women, right? Good, I'm glad we've cleared this up.

OK, and just to address your points above:

Ok, men don't have to accommodate our desire to do non-traditional and traditional things at the same time. Freedom, baby! You be a Flinstone and we clap and we cheer for a free king. We just don't want to accomodate someone who isn't interested in doing non-traditional gender role things cuz we're Jetsons up in this space ship.
Ok, if men can't compete with women in the workforce despite our tendency to work fewer hours and take more vacations, that's ok with the Jetsons. You just won't be able to afford that new Stegosaurus Dishwasher that Betty really Envies Wilma for having. It's sad, but, I think we'll get over it someday. Through Xanax all things are possible.

3.Good luck with your underage true love Thai Lady Boy who is pretending to be a virgin? I dunno what you want me to say here. Like, I told you it was cool to be a Flinstone and it's ok to not afford a Stegosaurus Dishwasher, but you're still here shouting about how you don't like young women who have sex a lot and aren't from a country other than your own because they're the real radicals...I mean you're going to an entirely different country to chase barely legal skirt that doesn't even speak your language...but we're the non-traditionalists who are radical? Sir, Maam, PICK WHAT YOU ARE. Cuz the Flinstones don't fly to Thailand to bang barely legal non same language speaking skirt and also claim they're the ones defending the way society has always been.

Edit: Yabadabadoo

Financial_Leave4411 · 2025-12-09T20:05:25+00:00

Why am I not surprised to see men on PPD upset that women are evolving while they stay the same. Seems women might be out growing relationships with most men and that’s fine. Society will just have to go through a period of time where there is less sex and relationships. Perhaps that is what we need to make today’s weak men grow stronger. The weak men that choose to sit around and complain will just be weeded out. After all the squeaky wheel doesn’t always get the grease sometimes it gets replaced.

Novadina · 2025-12-09T20:18:45+00:00

The stats on growing ideological divide between men and women shows men's ideals have relatively remained the same yet women are increasingly becoming radical, yet all the discussion is about "young men being radicalized"... exposes a clear agenda pushed by society

I don’t think women wanting equal rights and not gender-based roles is that radical. Men should also change to get with the times, trying to have an ideology that doesn’t work with the current economy seems like a problem.

women in relationships complaining about "unpaid labour" at home

Yes, it’s not very fair for them to have to do all the home labor, if men want kids and a house they should also do the labor to maintain those things.

i.e. women CHOSE to also pursue careers, now they also have to juggle their traditional gender roles (being a wife and mother). They're mad at men for not accommodating them for a choice they themselves made

We made the choice??? Really? It costs MONEY to have food and shelter. No one has ever offered me free money, I have had to work for it. You think women have some kind of husband store with rich men we can just go to to “be a wife and mother”?? Some of the older women in my family that didn’t work ended up homeless when their husbands died or left, not having the ability to make money is dangerous. And I would rather marry for love and have to work (including the option of having my own business or changing jobs or even changing careers entirely), than marry someone because he will be my employer for the job of “wife and mother”.

women complaining about having to "date down"

i.e. they've entered the workforce to become equal to men, now there are less men who are higher SES than them, so they have less options

Wanting an equal partner is not “radical”.

women complaining about men dating young, caring about bodies, and becoming PPBs

i.e. women embraced the sexual revolution, but are mad that men don't want to wife 304s

Dude women don’t want the men like this. They aren’t complaining these guys don’t want them - they are complaining guys like this even exist and are spreading their lies to other men that this is acceptable behavior because it results in men being “lonely” and then they complain to women about it. People usually get with someone around their own age, and it’s always been the case, get over it.

Women have essentially become radicalized, while men have stayed the same.

Nothing you’ve stated is “radical”. If it’s so great to live as women did in the past why don’t men want to do it? Women want the same opportunities as men, and we want equal partners in our household if we are gonna have a partner, that’s not radical - it’s FAIR. Men not wanting to change and want to keep an unfair advantage they have is a problem.

Society puts this expectation on men to continuously accommodate women for their ever escalating ideology, and then are dumbfounded when they see a growing trend of men opting out.

Yes we should have the expectation that men learn to accept things that are fair and their dick will not grant them some special exception to caring for their own children and house. Most people aren’t rich, so we have to work if we want to live comfortably and if we want kids, we have to take care of them. You can choose with your partner to divide up the labor in your own house how you want, of course, it just happens on an individual level and not universal based on genitals. And it should be fair, not one person doing more hours of work.

Opting out of what? It seems to be mostly men complaining women don’t want kids anymore, seems like women are the ones opting to not have kids rather than deal with an unfair childcare labor difference.

Foyles_War · 2025-12-09T20:19:24+00:00

tl;dr:

Women have adapted to the changes of the modern world more than men have. Women are mad about that.

comment: Men are even more mad and sad about it. The implication is pretty clearly that women should devolve and go back into the kitchen and make men a sammich. Yeah, no thanks. Deal.

Avast_Lion · 2025-12-09T20:42:30+00:00

Nobody likes to be under somebody's thumb. Nobody likes to be treated as a subordinate, an object, or an idiot, or to have to work for free. Everybody likes to be respected and treated fairly and equally. That's the "agenda." You seem to have the very common attitude that you should have servants who you can make do what you want and who will obey you and work for free, which, wouldn't that be nice. But it is incompatible with other people's wishes and freedoms. Sorry.

Dependent-Tailor7366 · 2025-12-09T21:33:45+00:00

It’s fucking bullshit that men can have careers and kids without issue an women can’t. Better for women to just never have kids then if nothing is going to change there.

KhadgarIsaDreadlord · 2025-12-10T01:12:41+00:00

It might be anecdotal or whatever but in my experience a lot of men are center and left leaning in their ideology, including me. I think the cultural shift did reach men aswell. Sure, we could do without the rampant misandry that has been normalized in western society but there are a lot of new avenues for men that has opened up. It used to be that the man was the provider period, while you can still do that becouse there are traditional women out there if you know where to look, being your own man has never been this accessible. I mean shit if you want to be a househusband you can even do that. We are less boxed in into a specific role than we used to be, which is great.

LolaPaloz · 2025-12-10T12:50:47+00:00

Nah men are literally more radical now than in the past have u talked to a zoomer male? That Nick Fuentes Andrew Tate stuff is infecting their heads

Tik tok is psywarfare

FightingForCollins · 2025-12-09T19:42:12+00:00

There are different levels to being a conservative.

If you were a normal conservative who ideally wanted a chaste wife who doesn't work but you were flexible and ready to tolerate her having a part-time job and 3-4 past partners, then you listened to Andrew Tate or whatever and now you're a far-right conservative who believes women shouldn't be able to vote or to work at all and they lose all value if they're not a virgin at marriage, you did not "remain ideologically stable" even if you called yourself a "conservative" the whole time. Conservatives do get radicalized.

False-Purple3882 · 2025-12-10T06:30:13+00:00

This is a distortion. The issue isn’t society ‘forcing women to be more liberal’. The issue is women have the burden of splitting finances 50/50 on top of the traditional roles they’re still expected to do because men are largely lazy and selfish.

Women complain about men seeking out women 15-20+ years older than them because it’s predatory. Women don’t complain men “care about bodies”, women complain that men care about sex to the exclusion of all else. You’re labeling women refusing to accept blatantly unfair treatment as “radicalization”. It’s manipulative and has no factual basis.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-12-09T21:13:58+00:00

Only if you consider liberalism radical. Most of the developed world does not

ratsareniceanimals · 2025-12-09T22:04:03+00:00

Is it really surprising that women have changed? American women have more freedom, more opportunities, and more control of their own lives than almost any other time in human history.

Meanwhile, I see entire towns of men who spent their lives working a single skill at a single factory, and when the factory closes, most of them can't make any change whatsoever, and even the suggestion that they change seems to offend them.

There are plenty of men that have changed with the times, and they are absolutely THRIVING. Some of us even have wives that out-earn us, and you know what? I'm proud of her and happy for her!

Cool-Mixture-4123 · 2025-12-09T20:57:30+00:00

Anyone who has traditionalist views and has voted in that way has made their own beds and must now gtf over it.

I don't care how well employed you are, you are a "human resource ", a "raw material " simple as that.

The agenda pushed by society falls into capitalism. Everyone single or partnered with or without kids needs big dollars for roof overhead and belly full.

Fear of public spaces, fear of "the other", political ads about "crime" or "illegals" or homeless taking from you are total bullshit. Its so easy to pay Bezos for your toilet paper instead of talking to a human IRL. Its easy to be so tired after work and play a shooting game or stream a show/movie instead of being in the world bc you need a "new" car, or a "safe" address and your income is leveraged to the hilt

Mens ideals are bullshit and all wannabe millionaires while twiddling devices for their online fantasy football.

Finding a partner and building a bond is way less linear than getting a specific education/job (even then get cut out)

Being a social creature, being friendly with those nearby IS ABSOLUTELY HOW YOUR FUCKING PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS MET AND BONDED

Touch grass, talk to strangers. Be a regular even at the convenience store. You can have your "trad man" life only by getting the real world (and your issues) together

Rezboy209 · 2025-12-10T00:07:24+00:00

Yes many men still want to hold onto archaic (and often times obsolete) ideals and social structures.

Women aren't becoming "radical" they are simply adapting to the dialectical changes in society and culture.

This concept of young men being radicalized isn't accurate either. It's young men, who would otherwise be adapting to the societal and cultural changes, being pulled back to those same archaic beliefs.

anewleaf1234 · 2025-12-09T20:31:54+00:00

The right wants to strip women of their right to abortion which places their health at risk. And they are lead by a man who has sexually assaulted women said multiple anti female views.

Thus women aren't being radical by shifting to the left. That seems like a normal thing to do.

TinyFlamingo2147 · 2025-12-09T20:39:54+00:00

It's not that hard to be what a woman wants. Sorry you guys can't date your mom's.

Prior-Impression-871 · 2025-12-09T21:38:29+00:00

To the kitchen. Right this instant kitten

Lemon_gecko · 2025-12-09T19:52:23+00:00

If we transport a man from 1500 in modern times, he would uphold his values and yet we will judge him differently than in the past. In the changing world no moving forward means falling behind. So having same values as 50 years ago, 100, means yes you are now misogynist and whatnot.

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peeper_tom · 2025-12-09T20:22:39+00:00

The bene gesserit plan is unfolding.

EndlessFantasyX · 2025-12-10T02:03:31+00:00

Its simple. You have to view through the axiom of "liberal good, not liberal bad". Then it makes sense

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2025-12-10T06:17:00+00:00

As a left-wing man who is very critical of feminism, this is just all kinds of depressing.

I feel like many men are turned off to the left because what they think is the left is actually identity-politics neoliberalism rather than defending the interests of the working class.

A left that actually supports the interests of working people would need to be pro-male. If "Women's rights are human rights" as a popular slogan goes, then "Men's rights are workers' rights," since men are still the sex expected to be society's workhorses.

However, even when it comes to the identity stuff, men are much more likely to be killed by the police and face harsher treatment at every stage of the criminal justice system. When this happens to other groups, the identity-politics liberals march in the streets (and not wrongly so, in my opinion), but when it happens to men, no one in that sphere GAF.

esdebah · 2025-12-10T16:01:20+00:00

I heard that black folks got radicalized in the US, once. Some say there are still emergent properties from this event. Huge socio-economic shift, almost like it's some type of complex multi-generational process. Why would anyone ever wish to upset the status quo?

peaceful_pastry · 2025-12-10T19:04:11+00:00

Disagree. I’d say women talk liberal but they act conservative.

Ladies push these narratives that guys need to be more liberal and then their preferences in large part stay the same for more conservative archetypical men.

No-Contribution-2851 · 2025-12-09T20:53:09+00:00

yeah this is the part no one wants to admit:

a lot of modern dating “problems” are just women realizing their new values don’t match their old preferences

they want partnership but still want to feel like he’s above them
they want freedom but still expect provider energy
they want equality but not if it means no pedestal

i wrote about this exact tension in NoMixedSignals
it’s not hate, it’s just noticing

you don’t fix this with lectures or campaigns
you fix it with who you choose

OkOutlandishness6370 · 2025-12-10T04:47:20+00:00

The really interesting question OP, is whether men opting out is ever going to reach a critical threshold where society has to change or react somehow - and if so, what form is that going to take?

Men seem to be much more prone to opting out of things and just going it alone and living in squalor or poverty indefinitely as long as he has his weed, vidya, homies to hang with etc. Women have a bio clock, higher neuroticism, more biologically hardwired to focus on making a nest out of her life, i suppose for kids, maybe also for herself. Maybe women who didn't care about life-quality-maxxing got weeded out of the gene pool? Whereas men mostly just want to work (previously: hunt), fuck, and have some idle leisure time or whatever.

So I think, in a world where the provider role goes away, and dudes realize the majority of themselves will never be Chad, and 3d VR AI-powered waifus are right around the corner... hell... maybe we DO see men just MGTOWing it more and more. But I somehow don't think this like... lends itself to a utopian ideal turn of events where women go "yknow maybe we were too harsh on men, maybe we need them, maybe they're cool as-is, maybe we misjudged them, maybe we projected the negative of traits of some men onto the majority too hard" and nature heals itself.

I think what's more likely is just... empty skyscrapers covered in vines and ultra orthodox religious people telling their children "the Old Ones used to live in those glass towers, but then they started hating each other and fucking robots instead of each other and died out, and that's why humanity doesn't really do libertinism or degeneracy anymore."

I think a form of like socio-sexual mutually assured destruction is more likely than either gender admitting it was wrong at this point.

Throw_r_a_2021 · 2025-12-09T20:38:47+00:00

This is basically just the Overton window. Simply by remaining consistent in what they want, male perspectives and positions that were once considered ordinary and moderate are today considered “radical extremist alt right reactionary” or whatever. I just want the same opportunities and that my grandfathers had, so to the progressive left I’m an arch-conservative fascist, even though up until just recently I would have been an ordinary guy.

MarioWilson122 · 2025-12-09T20:54:38+00:00

They benefit from it so they will do more of what benefits them. They have no reason to really to care to much about men's opinions, since they don't really have to anymore. So they will look after their interests first, while pretending like they care about men's even though they really don't.

They want to be seen as superior, which even the young boys know this and understand that the movement isn't anything good to want to support. Because they want to just do whatever they feel like and want men to accept it happily, of course men aren't just gonna do that. So they should learn to be ok with that.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2025-12-09T20:51:59+00:00

“Men have stayed the same”

It’s kinda interesting that Club Shay Shay had a guest on this very topic.

https://youtube.com/shorts/sxR0q3GDjsI?si=2oaMpjMzPSHrV8B4

Dear-Tank2728 · 2025-12-09T20:09:06+00:00

In all fairness them radicalizing is necessary to fight against patriarchy. Too bad they are going the opposite direction and hyperfeminizing. Feminism has until recently been about breaking the status quo and is right to do so. Men staying the same is just more indicative of how bad theyve always been in that field.

Cool-Mixture-4123 · 2025-12-09T20:57:44+00:00