No one ever seems to want to acknowledge that women consistently go for abusive, bad natured men. If you bring this up all they do is shame you to silence the discussion, and this is probably the most prominent example of gaslighting in dating/gender dynamics.

SlashCo80 · 2023-05-10T17:10:59+00:00

The thing is, assholes and sociopaths often have a self-confident swagger about them combined with aggressiveness and lack of inhibitions which is perceived as strength. Women are attracted to strength, even if the guy is otherwise a jerk. They are repelled by weakness, even if he's otherwise a good guy. That's about it.

KingOnixTheThird · 2023-05-10T20:25:32+00:00

No one ever seems to want to acknowledge that women consistently go for abusive, bad natured men.

I don't think (most) women are intentionally looking for these kind of men. It's just that men who are secretly sociopathic and abusive are very good at hiding it initially. They lure women in with their charm and only after some time spent together does the woman start to realize the man's true colors. Some of the abuse can also happen because of an underlying mental illness that the man may have, although not all men with mental illness are abusive.

My aunt was married to an abusive man and nobody in the family ever suspected it until they got divorced and she revealed all of the physical abuse he did to her.

Bikerbats · 2023-05-10T17:40:30+00:00

What do you consider to be a "bad guy"? It's an important question, because my inbox is often hit with, "You don't count, you thugmaxxed." (I'm quoting here mods, so please allow the term), "You're dark triad", "You're not a good guy, you're covered in tattoos and ride a Harley", and it's all bullshit, because I know I'm a good man. IMHO, a lot of you guys use "bad guy" or some variation thereof to denote anything other than the button downed nerd.

KayRay1994 · 2023-05-10T17:35:20+00:00

you mean…. people end up in relationships that best reflect their sense of self, sense of worth and familiarity with traits based upon their upbringing? who woulda thunk it - there is also an aspect of these guys “trapping” women with their initial confidence, swagger and so on. More often than not, by the time he starts to become abusive, he’s already alienated her from her friends, family, etc

I do believe that if you, regardless of your gender, had a string of abusive relationships its time to do some soul searching and figure out why, even get professional help if needed - that being said, this post reeks of “nice guys finish last”

AngeCruelle · 2023-05-10T18:08:36+00:00

"I've had this experience!"

"Well I've had this experience!"

This isn't gaslighting. This is disagreeing.

satisfiedmind- · 2023-05-10T18:41:37+00:00

It’s because people tend to repeat patterns from childhood. So if someone was abused as a child they subconsciously are drawn to what feels familiar and some psychologists suggest there’s a drive to try to finish that story and fix it. Like if their dad was always angry at them subconsciously they try to repair that relationship with their father, which is represented by the bad guy. There’s lots of other reasons that contribute to this pattern, ultimately if anyone is to “blame” in this situation it’s the abusive guy. How you’ve managed to turn this dynamic in to a whereby you’re the victim, I’m not sure. In your title you’ve said “If you bring this up all they do is shame you”… why are you bringing it up? If you’re not part of that dynamic and it obviously upsets people why are you talking about it? It’s not got anything to do with you.

Safinated · 2023-05-10T17:03:55+00:00

All women? Or a minority of women?

Because most of us don’t care much about what an undesirable minority does

Orangematcha · 2023-05-10T17:37:57+00:00

I think most people understand dating is hard and there are challenges to them. Picking a wrong partner is part of it. You think women want to consistently pick a bad partner? You think there aren’t other variables to it?

AnyIntroduction3288 · 2023-05-10T17:51:09+00:00

I thought we women were all superficial and demanding handsome men. Now we want ugly and abusive men? Make it make sense.

AcanthocephalaNew947 · 2023-05-10T17:29:53+00:00

If all it takes for even unattractive or as you put it homely men to attract women is be a piece of shit, why don’t men just… do that?

Do you really think if it was that easy ugly men wouldn’t just do that? Do you really think in all of our existence the reason ugly men aren’t with knockouts is because they haven’t figured out the secret of being a dick?!?

Are you telling me there’s handsome courteous, kind, well put together men who are shunned to inceldom because they aren’t assholes?

If the only thing I need to do to attract the man of my dreams is be a bitch, I’m gonna be a bitch.

This seems like if it’s something I discovered I’m keeping a secret and just having my pick. I mean seriously, logically if this were true and I discovered it I’m not telling anyone, I’m just going to go out and do it and live a great life!

That alone tells me you likely know this isn’t true.

Dimension597 · 2023-05-10T18:46:43+00:00

Lmao 🤣 gotta love this echo chamber.

Redpill Men: “I, who have never dated men or even talked to women extensively, will make this wild, completely unfounded, claim about women and why they act this way that I assume, based on zero evidence, is true. You guys agree with my lame conjecture, right?”

Redpill Men (who have also never had a conversation with women where they actually took them seriously): “oh yes, your lame conjecture is deep insight’

Women: “ah, guys, umn…”

Redpill Men: “shaddup, you don’t know what you are talking about you have a vagina and are ergo incapable of seeing the deep insight”

Women: “deep insight is a load of horse pucky”

Redpill Men: “shaddup you don’t know how hard we have it”

Women: “whatever 🙄”

Redpill Men: “I can’t get laid because women have it so easy”

Women: “maybe it’s because you refuse to lis-“

Redpill Men: “shaddup I was whinging on about how hard I have it”

Women: “I’m out”

Ok-Put3239 · 2023-05-11T01:17:43+00:00

It’s almost like ever since girls are children were told that when boy snot nosed brats abuse us it’s “love.”

NakedStreets · 2023-05-10T17:54:03+00:00

women consistently go for abusive, bad natured men

Consistently meaning what? As opposed to what?

There are certainly jerks who get a lot of romantic attention. There are certainly people who consistently date jerks. But neither is exclusive to one gender. There are plenty of terrible women that get dates and plenty of guys who only date terrible women.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-05-10T17:33:20+00:00

No women go for handsome men. Handsome men (relative to them) have options (at their level) which is why they can get away with treating them like shit.

these guys look like they just got out of prison

Yeah, typically very masculine. Some women are really into that look.

flosterjenkins · 2023-05-10T20:27:52+00:00

It's almost as if PPD is obsessed with women getting duped or choosing badly. How dare women get conned or put sexual attraction first? That's a privilege that the females don't deserve, but if you're a man, then carry on.

Men going after hot women with character flaws? Never a topic here. Women going after hot men with character flaws? weekly, maybe daily, post complaining about it.

And I'd love to know where OP is from, extrapolating women being into straight up dangerous criminals like it's some common thing.

ffandyy · 2023-05-10T20:24:15+00:00

This is all reddit dudes talk about on this sub lol.

notseizingtheday · 2023-05-10T17:52:29+00:00

You all engage in some form of gross hedonistic debauchery and it's wild to me that any of you think you're better than the others. Some of you just hide it better

2023-05-11T04:13:06+00:00

Not all women go for bad boys. In the western world this is a big enough pattern though, to be scrutinized, but the general concept is the same.

In other cultures, women will only go for men with a lot of money, or with high educations, which are basically impossible for a lot of men to achieve if only simply by a statistical standard. Again this is not all women.

Going for "bad boys" is essentially a way for western women to (in their minds) "give their bodies" to a man who they feel doesn't make them feel like they're wasting it. A lot of women I talk to have this bizarre perception that if they "date" normally, they'll be nothing but a prostitute. I feel bad for women in a lot of ways.

Longspkdiamond · 2023-05-10T18:20:18+00:00

Women don't go for these guys. These guys are like heat-seeking missiles that find the broken, low-self-esteem women that will accept them, just to have somebody in their lives.

Slyfer_Seven · 2023-05-10T17:11:28+00:00

Logically, if what you said was true, then most women would be in abusive relationships with bad dudes

But the stats don't back that up, even a little, because it's only like 25ish percent that are in abusive relationships

PPD alone shows that there are plenty of bad dudes who are getting no action, which also doesn't make any sense if they're such a hot commodity, so the observable end result isn't matching what you're claiming

What is likely happening is that you read, or skimmed, a few studies showing that certain traits found in bad dudes (but not exclusive to them) are also traits women find attractive initially. From there you leapt to the conclusion that women in general flock to criminals and scumbags, ignoring the fact that the stats don't actually show this to be true...

BigVulvaEnergy · 2023-05-10T17:58:21+00:00

Seems like this happens more in lower socioeconomic circles and specific to people who experienced childhood violence.

But sure, overlook all of that and just say "irony."

Hoopy223 · 2023-05-10T18:30:35+00:00

I hate to say it but when I was a complete POS doing drugs, no job, steroids I got laid all the time - and not with “scummy” women but women with good jobs in healthcare, jewelry store, schoolteacher etc.

When a friend of mine OD’d (on purpose I think) I made a conscious effort to clean myself up. Did all the right things like fulltime job, no drinking, church. Sex life went to zip lol.

Now I am not agreeing with OP because I know from life experience that most men aren’t irresponsible druggies or abusive or criminals but being single it damn sure feels like thats what women chase after.

y2kjanelle · 2023-05-10T19:14:06+00:00

Because the average woman in our heads doesn’t desire some loser asshole abusive piece of shit out of prison. Men who are seeing this must be living in very poor and gang ridden areas. People date and marry within their socioeconomic range typically. I’ve never met a college girl in my 3 years here who’s gone for a guy straight out of prison. In fact none of the women in my life have. Who are these “nice men tht are down on their luck w women” hanging around that they see criminals with college educated or high socioeconomic status women?

And if we’re talking about the other opposite of rich criminal dudes, they’re getting the hyper superficial women who would boost their status. That shouldn’t be a shocker to anyone with common sense.

What’s more common for the average woman in our heads is going for an attractive guy who’s not quite mean, not quite an asshole but maybe he negs or says things that are douchey. The guy at the club who has style that’s cool but also is giving frat boy or used to be a frat boy.

And the reason women go for him is because he has pretty good social skills and confidence that masks the cockiness. He knows not to say something too rude to push her away. Maybe he’ll even lie.

I’ve dated not great men before. The bad parts weren’t what attracted me. It was because he was overly chivalrous and made me feel very special. He never quite pushed too far or said too mean of things until I put a boundary up 3 months later where he acted like an asshole. So i cut things off and then a few weeks later he says he’s thought about it and thinks he reacted poorly and would like to try again, this time taking it slow to prove his maturity. Same thing happened and after that, it was done.

But my self confidence was low due to his very mean reaction when we broke up. Hence being attracted to that kind of guy again and feeling scared that no one will be attracted to me but that kind of guy or that i don’t deserve to be treated well.

Then a couple months of therapy and I’m the most confident person out there and a year later in a great relationship.

It’s called being human. Most people in the world do not make the best choice first, they learn from mistakes.

Edit: I’ve also tried dating nerdy nice guys to switch up what I was attracted to or who I was attracting. Ended up worse because the overly nice guys was too much of a switch. It resulted in men who were desperate and would not let me get to my car without kissing them. Men who talked about being suicidal on the first date. Men who claimed I was a heartbreaker and rude because I didn’t want a second date. Men who cried and threw items across the room because I said no to sex and they hadn’t had it in a while.

bardy1972 · 2023-05-10T17:20:00+00:00

No one ever seems to want to acknowledge that abusive, bad-natured people act like perfect partners until their target has been manouevred into a position of isolation and dependence. They make it hard to leave before dropping the act.

Amazing-Key-1575 · 2023-05-11T04:35:46+00:00

The reason you don’t see or hear about as many attractive abusers is because the more attractive you are the less likely you are to be held accountable - and often what’s abusive behavior from a fat mongloid is just charm for a hot chalfad

Humans erroneously conflate Truth with Beauty and Goodness or Attractiveness as synonymous with Morality, because aesthetic is convincing - it’s why the only effective marketing is what tickles the unconscious libido, and all you need to really do to sell actual fresh dog shit, is put boobs or abs next to a nicely packed pile of it, and say it’s on sale.

By which I mean to say, whether outright donkey punching felon level abusive or more insidious slowburn pouring draino in your coffee for 6 months to watch you slowly die of “unknown” causes, it’s hard to see or name an assailant in more cases than less, and what’s worse is - this is not gendered exclusively either, before the idiots chime in - our society (I just commented on this yesterday I think) often punishes those who are/were hurting/hurt - we have such a fucking weird system where everyone is a victim online but in reality if you have been the victim best not speak cause you’ll only be treated worse by every human you don’t know on a familial level thereafter and most likely unconsciously if not straight abusively by your family & loved ones.

We live in a world without compassion for the victim & dog-eat-dog could also easily lead women into the hands of dogs who eat dogs - loudest bark may not mean biggest bite but it’s a sign the dog will bite if pushed and unfortunately uncontrollable aggression can be mistaken for exciting energy or whatever vagina tingles lead women almost unfailingingly into the hands of asshats 7.6/10 times until age 25.

In fact, if you have a girlfriend or a wife, you may want to ask yourself: how shitty of a human am I?

Tho I do get what you’re saying I am often amaze at the power of the shitty human absent physical glory over pussy - reminds me of stories I hear all the time from a family friend about their sister my age - who they tried to hook me up with but I kindly passed since she was a bitchy career woman, gets paid like $100k yr for supply chain middle management emailing excel spreadsheets someone else does for her forwarding emails her boss sends plus a couple zoom calls a week (how people get jobs like this beyond meeting some HR diversity quota baffles me, since a 15 year old could accomplish her job without complaint & AI can already do her entire departments job better for .05% the cost but anyways I knew we wouldn’t get along and I enjoyed hearing stories of her dating misadventures - new guy every 2 weeks, for roughly 3 month intervals then “boyfriend” for 3-6 months followed by new guy every 2 weeks…for 7 years I heard about her dating life and increasingly suspect dating choices and watched as she got closer to “the wall” and more desperate until landing the jackpot with someone who is on paper as much of a loser as he is n the flesh - got to hear all about how terrible and abusive he was and how much they fought always followed with some increased level of commitment, as if the worse he became the more she wanted to pop out little bald temper tantrum throwing idiots

And I think the reason for this infantilization fetish is exactly what it seems: women hormonally pushed to pump out replicants and driven by the baby-birthing fever typically reaching 106 degrees at 28-30, will simply date a giant temper tantrum throwing baby because they have babies on their mind. They want babies so they attract babies and then make babies.

Or they date a big ugly baby (all babies are ugly) and it’s mean and smelly and dumb, maybe even illiterate & incapable of following rules. And it sets off a maternal instinct that makes them feel like a mother & so they want to become a mother and then biology takes over and from one baby comes two.

Also accounts for the reason I got way more pussy when I was a piss drunk alcoholic than a sober saint - and why I’d never heard more women straight tell me they wanted my children than when I was fucking their brains out drunk and leaving them and their life a mess - cause I was a big drunk child and it made them feel useful

thisisrandom801 · 2023-05-10T21:35:49+00:00

Ehh, it's not just women that do this, I see men do this a lot in my recovery program. It's called codependency and it's a disease just like any addiction, only we're addicted to love and people and we're toxic too, like the women you're referring to. When I talk to people outside of recovery experiencing toxic/abusive relationships, and yeah generally it's women speaking up more about that, for the most part they react as you've described. I don't blame them or make them wrong, they just haven't reached a point in life or recovery of being able to say "I chose this", "I made a wrong choice in partner, but I still chose this partner and it's up to me to choose differently" in the future. Those not in recovery take personal accountability as an attack, whereas typically those in recovery (12 steps or therapy, etc) can find empowerment from it.

hotcaulk · 2023-05-11T00:35:34+00:00

Honest/sincere questions:

1) Are you familiar with the term "love bombing?"

2) Do you think abusive partners (regardless of gender) are abusive from day 1?

3) Do you think that abusive partners start out engaging in the worst forms of abuse they find justifiable and sustain that level or do you think it's more like the abuse equivalent of "frog boiling?"

Kobe_curry24 · 2023-05-11T04:18:11+00:00

Women create the evil they despise , but I do believe a lot are waking up slowly

7-11-21-Luck · 2023-05-12T01:59:11+00:00

This one woman I am friends with knowingly dated a man who was a straight-up asshole, dead beat, and had a pregnant fiance at home. Me as well as some of her friends, and most of her family told her to leave that guy alone, but she did not care and said she wanted to do what what she wanted anyway.

Then she got pregnant. The man made it clear he did not want anything to do with the child. She decided she would be the mother and a father and to keep the child anyway. Now she complains nonstop about how hard it is to be a single mother and how the other parent needs to step up.

Whenever she tries to complain to me, I tell her I don't want to hear anything about it. No sympathy from me. I know it sounds cold, but she had every opportunity to prevent this situation. She ignored every single person who warned her.

veloron2008 · 2023-05-10T18:32:58+00:00

Some women go for abusive, badboy types. They typically have some pretty severe issues and character flaws that make them attracted to toxicity in the first place. They're doing you a big favor in ignoring you.

Last thing you want to do is pretend to be something you're not in order to get attention. Stay true to your ideals, and away from them. There are still plenty of good women available, especially if you also consider other parts of the world.

waffleznstuff30 · 2023-05-10T19:13:27+00:00

Women don't chose men who are abusive. Most women hate the likes of Andrew Tate and basically the many communities that bash women.

However with abusive/bad natured men. The thing is they don't start that way. They have charisma, they have a realness about them that makes them believable as a partner. (I made my mistakes I'm getting my life together) and the bad behavior doesn't show up until they are in the relationship. It's not he has a bunch of red flags I want it. He has heavily nuanced things about him proceed with caution it seems safe and he's a narcissistic toxic man child.

The thing with most red flags is they are nuanced and subjective and vary from person to person

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-05-10T20:14:51+00:00

I think very young women can chose "assholes", as "assholes" correlate with assertiveness, confidence and attractiveness. However they often learn the differentiate between an asshole and the other traits with experience.

The issues is that red pill men are mad at women for not getting everything right whilst they are 18-22 and pre-brain development, whilst also admitting that it's best for men to grow and develop before settling down because more maturity = selecting a better mate choice.

BlueBuff1968 · 2023-05-10T18:25:48+00:00

Disagree. This behavior is only common among young women. Bad boys are dangerous and young women find them exciting. Perfectly normal. It's human nature.

Then women realize that surfers, bikers, rappers, punk rockers .... will get you nowhere 95% of the time. Even the star athlete from her school usually ends up being a jerk and a loser.

Women live and learn like any human being. Abusive boyfriends are not cool. Most women choose to stay away from them as they mature.

That's when women change their dating behavior toward responsible men who respect them.

wtknight · 2023-05-10T17:02:34+00:00

FDS brings up women dating poor quality men a lot, although they usually blame the men for being deceptive. These women therefore create rules that men have to follow in order to be able to date and eventually have sex with them.

Oli_love90 · 2023-05-10T20:39:21+00:00

This is such an odd take that’s impossible to confirm if it’s just your own biases or actual fact.

Are there that may bad natured men thag you can really say women “consistently” chose them or is your view skewed in your direct environment?

I don’t think women will ever acknowledge this because I simply can’t believe this is true for an overwhelming majority of people.

revente · 2023-05-10T22:49:45+00:00

Do you live in some kind of a ghetto?

Because i know tons of women and none of them date men that you describe. Sure I'm often critical of their choices etc.

But I've never seen such a man with any girl I've known:

9/10 times these guys look like they just got out of prison and often have.

SmilesRHere · 2023-05-11T00:11:46+00:00

Actually women consistently go for decent men, at least in real life.

What you’re trying to put out as a fact is nothing more than the ignorant and biased reality of someone who probably doesn’t go out of their cave.

Throwaway4CMVtho · 2023-05-11T03:24:00+00:00

When this conversation comes up, no one ever says the important thing.

Women are wrong for picking these men.

And it doesn't matter if it's intentional or not.

If they intentionally pick the man, congratulations, you're an idiot and you know better but you think you can "fix" him or whatever.

If you're unintentionally picking the wrong men, something still got him an audition with you, which means your values are skewed, so it's not that much comfort in that either.

RedditAlt999 · 2023-05-10T17:44:14+00:00

The "bad natured" men have the 3-6s and can get away with being bad natured. I know personally because when I was in way better physical shape I got away with so much because the women knew I could do better than them, so they grinned and beared it.

The only thing I can surmise is that these men exude a certain level of arrogance and apathy that women conflate with confidence.

This is completely true, but how are those things any different from confidence? Confidence comes from results and the line between arrogance and confidence is subjective. Apathy/aloofness comes from knowing this relationship doesn't matter because you can go get a new one. I was an arrogant and aloof SOB (kind of still am) and women would "say" they didn't like it, but ACT towards it in a completely different way.

mc0079 · 2023-05-10T17:57:54+00:00

How come you assigned Morality to the men, but not the women? This is a form of pedestalizing.

Crafty_Letter_1719 · 2023-05-10T18:43:02+00:00

Woman across the board go for attractive guys. Whether or not this guy is nice and good natured or “abusive” and “bad natured” is secondary. If he’s attractive( physically or in terms of status) he’s going to have no problem attracting Woman.

This however is no different to how Men treat attractive Woman. If she is psychically attractive enough; whether or not she is an absolute bitch or an angel; she is going to have no problems attracting partners.

getbackincagiewagie · 2023-05-10T19:51:20+00:00

9/10 times these guys look like they just got out of prison and often have.

Implying that men in prison can't be attractive?

Reasonable_Volume_96 · 2023-05-10T21:37:53+00:00

Experienced abusive men do not show those tendencies until very far down the line because they are excellent manipulators. What you are describing is not women "choosing" abusers. It's women getting into relationships with men who they believe are not abusive.

You are straight up conflating two different things and using it as an excuse to victim blame. I would say the same thing if the genders were reversed. Abuse is abuse.

Victims are torn down over time, people who stay with abusers are in danger and in more danger when they try to leave. Ignorant post is ignorant.

Dating assholes does not automatically mean you are dating someone inherently abusive. Not that I condone dating assholes, had my share of them and they absolutely suck.

RealAmericanWeasel · 2023-05-11T02:34:35+00:00

Not sure how true this is but let us suppose it is true, for the sake of argument. Why are you talking as though the females are so innocent here? People usually go for other people similar to themselves, I would think. The females going for these types of guys are probably jerks themselves in the majority of cases. I am skeptical that these are otherwise wonderful people.

GlamSunCrybabyMoon · 2023-05-11T03:31:56+00:00

I think you have it incredibly confused. Abusive bad natured behavior typically isn’t what attracted women to these men. The men do not start off abusive and bad natured, that would only attract women of the same nature. They don’t want a woman strong willed like themselves, they want someone weak willed. They start off normal and loving but slowly start to drop the act.

It’s not women choosing abusive men, abusive men know exactly who they can fuck with. Young girls and young women, women with little to no family, women with no self esteem, women who grew up with abuse, women who have already been in an abusive relationship, mental ill women, inexperienced women, desperate women, women that no one is checking for. That’s who they decide to abuse, they don’t do it to every woman they’re with.

HobbitShaker88 · 2023-05-11T03:32:32+00:00

PEOPLE do this. Ive met MANY men who pick ill natured women and nobody tells these men they need to "pick better" I think men are also turned off by weakness.

There is a sizable portion of the population that quite frankly has baggage and attachment problems mostly from their childhood. Thats why this sort of things usually happens.

IMOY21 · 2023-05-11T05:53:45+00:00

Well which is it are women only shooting up or shooting down?

glen_stefani69420 · 2023-05-11T06:43:30+00:00

This is such a young American problem. Having moved here I really see how absolutely trashy American culture is. An entire generation is absolutely mentally destroyed and I fear the day you all grow up. I have never seen such degeneracy or lack of self respect/standards. However, just north of the border, this shit didn't exist except in major major cities and probably the impoverished areas.

I don't know a single person in all my 30 years who ended up with a bad-boy, abusive piece of shit. Why? Because majority of sane women don't want that. They aren't into being abused. Fucking go touch grass and meet some real actualized human beings. All women I know with the exception of one are married or in 5+ year LTR with wonderful guys.

Did women while they were young go for a guy who was hot but maybe wasn't going to commit? Sure. Would men do the same if they had the opportunity? Abso-fucking-lutely. You're young, horny, and dumb. But guess what, most normal human beings grow out of that and find relationships. Again, I dont know a single woman who has been in an abusive relationship or tried to follow those guys around. I have however, gone on a date or two with those women and guess what, they're fucking absolute dumpster fire human beings and its so obvious.

Idk who the hell you're hanging around, or focusing on but man, majority of people are just normal individuals.

Itouchkiids · 2023-05-11T10:06:34+00:00

Especially in the black community, black women tend to gravitate a lot around dead beat and abusive black men, even more so than white women do. And they tend to blame all the default of tge kind of men they go for to the entirty of black men in all the world, and claiming that all of them are drug dealers and thugs. They even created a movement the divest community for that. And make all the black men and consequently the women looks bad. At leadt white men get the benefice of the doubt of beung judged as an individual, but for us if tyrone fuck up it’s all of us who pay the price.

Det_Steve_Sloan · 2023-05-11T10:56:57+00:00

You've just jumped past the part where you prove 'women consistently go for these men' to the part where you discuss the findings, which you did not present.

Khanluka · 2023-05-11T11:25:48+00:00

Woman are attrived to convident men. Sadly the bigest group of human trash is also the most convident. Any human that has a from of a self reflection and wants to be a good persoon. Doenst have that lvl of convidence. Witch makes them ugly.

wwwArchitect · 2023-05-11T15:51:36+00:00

As long as society keeps bailing them out for it, even rewarding them with welfare and praising them - “strong single mother!” - then what incentives are there for this to change anytime soon?

Comfortable-Regret · 2023-05-10T18:01:19+00:00

Nobody goes for abusive, bad natured people (well maybe a very tiny minority). These people lie and deceive, they pretend to be kind and loving until they've isolated their victim and made it difficult to leave, then they drop the act.

Edit: Just realized I basically stole this comment, I think I read it and forgot then accidentally used the same wording lol https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13dwlnb/no_one_ever_seems_to_want_to_acknowledge_that/jjmlob5?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

januaryphilosopher · 2023-05-10T18:31:26+00:00

Maybe you'd have better luck if you didn't confuse something happening at all with it happening commonly or consistently.

mrsmariekje · 2023-05-11T02:44:27+00:00

The only women who date dark triad men are women with pretty serious personal problems. They've almost always either:

a) got very low confidence b) have been mistreated as a child or as a young woman c) got mental health issues such as anxiety or depression d) a combination of the above

They would make poor partners for a normal man anyway, so why get upset that they won't date you? Just ignore them and focus on healthy women.

themostgianthorse · 2023-05-10T17:21:45+00:00

You are so close to understanding.

First, hybristophila only exists in women. We must conclude that at least for some women, there is something attractive about violence in men or men’s capability of violence. This makes sense because men’s capability for violence ostensibly could be used for her benefit.

Second, and this is the biggest flaw in your thinking “I just women could acknowledge it.” Why? Stop it! Women don’t give a fuck about why. You aren’t going to logic or reason any woman into desiring you or any man ever. Genuine desire cannot be negotiated.

The medium is the message.

No_Yogurt_4602 · 2023-05-10T18:18:57+00:00

In certain sociocultural contexts, successful criminality (which tends to involve violence, or at least the threat thereof) is a source of status in and of itself due to a whole suite of underlying political-economic factors that I'm not going to get into here, and women do generally find status attractive ... which makes sense, since someone being broadly esteemed within any given community or subculture indicates that they possess character traits which the group(s) in question--of which we can assume that the woman in question is a member--value,and to a noteworthy degree at that. So, while capacity for violence and perceived attractiveness can correlate, I'm not convinced that there's a directly causal relationship there. Now if you want to talk about a capacity for physicality in general, which tends to entail some capacity for violence, then that's an entirely different argument and one that I'm much more amenable to.

With regard to abusive/bad-natured men, it's a well-established and typically true-to-life trope that they rarely start out seeming that way in a new relationship. Abuse generally escalates and involves other processes, like the victim's social isolation and being limited in financial agency, which help to shore up relationships which can often seem inexplicably long-lived to third parties and sometimes even prompt the resumption of an abusive relationship after the victim managed to successfully leave it. Abusers are also, not always, but often narcissists and/or sociopaths to some degree or another, both of which are pathologies known to contribute to an afflicted person being super competent at delineate gaming social norms in order to make others see them in as positive a light as possible.

lostacoshermanos · 2023-05-10T22:06:13+00:00

I know a beautiful and smart hard working and witty girl who moved across the country with this big lazy tub of lard who doesn’t work and wants her to do onlyfans to get more money for them. This girl is in veterinary school.

NotARussianBot1984 · 2023-05-10T17:29:16+00:00

" look like they just got out of prison"

Who says that's not attractive to many women? Serial killers get love letters AFTER they go to jail.

Do you assume a man needs to be clean shaved and wear a suit to be attractive?

cmvmania · 2023-05-10T17:02:35+00:00

backwards logic. I would say that the majority of them are pretty much well endowed, tall, and jacked. Women would obviously prefer the rich chad than the felon chad but if she had to choose who to get laid with in a heartbeat most would rather go for the felon chad than fucking a beta shortass pushover dude despite having money.

FutureBannedAccount2 · 2023-05-10T20:50:52+00:00

I wouldn’t say it’s a consistent thing but, and this might be controversial, inthink there are definitely women who seek these men out. I think many find either excitement or comfort in it

neetykeeno · 2023-05-10T22:54:09+00:00

Guys who are of that opinion usually when they speak to a girl they're always looking for some way to feel superior to her. They look for some way her exes were in their eyes inexcusable choices and if they can't find any way they were particularly terrible...if they were just ordinary flawed but in ways that she wasn't on board with they decide that her problem is that she's too picky.

It's basically just a strategy to always say "woman bad" hiding behind some sophistry designed to try to circumvent the obvious comeback which is "that's fine...you've decided we're terrible...you'll be ceasing all unnecessary contact with women then, right? So you're not always choosing someone terrible yourself."

We get it, some of you don't like us and the thing you don't like most about us is sexual choices that aren't choosing you, that aren't giving you the opportunity to be the next man with the chance to make her miserable, that aren't acknowledging as real the sense of superiority some guys so desperately want other people to validate.

Anyhow...a lot of the time when an overtly nice decent girl consistently goes for visibly shitty criminal guys until she learns the hard way it's what I call the Mafia Princess effect. Daddy was kind of a criminal asshole but made good at least enough to hide it from the world but not from any member of his family with the slightest amount of perceptiveness. So like...Daddy flipped houses but a whole lot of the materials were stolen off other building sites. Daddy ran a secret marijuana grow house that paid for everything and wasn't really an investment genius. Or maybe Daddy was a charlatan and a hate filled fraud and wasn't really just a nice Canadian psychologist who wants you to clean your room so you feel like less of a mess.

modidlee · 2023-05-10T18:32:47+00:00

Instead of feeling sorry for themselves I think guys should try to understand what it is that attracts women to this type of guy and maybe incorporate some of those traits themselves.

DubiousTarantino · 2023-05-10T18:08:05+00:00

Women are attracted to confidence. HVM have confidence. Women also engage in preselection, the idea that the man is more attractive if other women are attracted to him; this usually means that in order to take him away from the girls, they have to give the HVM their body, hoping that sex will make him think that she is the one to take instead of the other girls. Chads know this, and from their perspective, why would they settle down with a girl if they can get a new one every other week? This is why they engage in short term mating strategy. It’s a never ending cycle of HVM getting all the girls and the girls somehow can seem to realize that the guy they are after are going to blow them off when he’s done using their body. My girlfriends friend is going this this right now, and I told her it was obvious that he is using her for her body, but she’s different (lol).

Conscious_Ad_6572 · 2023-05-10T20:53:14+00:00

Yup they get a kick out of it. I think just an expression of tribal nature

TheDustLord · 2023-05-10T19:49:44+00:00

I’ve seen several profiles where she openly admits “looking for felons and ex-cons”

ohdiddly · 2023-05-11T06:04:54+00:00

If women only dated men who aren’t abusive or bad natures, there would be a lot of women who will never have boyfriends.

geometersbane · 2023-05-10T17:24:06+00:00

The real kicker here is that women get more out of those abusive relationships than the guy abusing them. It's almost as if it's a life milestone for them.

Pilling_it · 2023-05-10T17:48:14+00:00

Actually, the attractive trait in all that is that they ideally want a man that have the ability of being beyond violent, but also can have impulse control. That would be the best of both worlds. Since it's naturally hot.

That's kind of what the subconscious is gunning for, buuut I called this package ideal for a reason.

AutoModerator · 2023-05-10T16:56:42+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

jellybeanzandtings · 2023-05-10T17:38:20+00:00

[permanently deleted]

1softboy4mommy · 2023-05-10T17:42:50+00:00

You changed reason and effect by their places. Not women go for these men but men who are abusive are less scared of rejection. If they don't fear to beat or kill someone, why would they fear approaching a woman who is 2 times weaker physically than him?

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-05-10T17:53:20+00:00

I have never dated an abusive or bad tempered man. Do some women go for those types, consciously or subconsciously? Sure. But it's foolish to say that women consistently go for those types. Just because a man gets laid more successfully than some other men does not automatically make him abusive.

Chemical_Major_1403 · 2023-05-10T18:20:10+00:00

The question is why you hate those men and automatically believe women who claims those men are abusive?!

Capybara_88 · 2023-05-10T19:09:37+00:00

she will fix him

Old-Condition-119 · 2023-05-10T19:25:39+00:00

I acknowledge it, we are dodos

__I____ · 2023-05-10T19:32:38+00:00

Everyone on here needs to listen to David Buss, he was on Rogan sometime I think. He's a researcher and has a PhD and will confirm very plainly what a lot of you talk about and the lapses he discusses and unknowns are a good place to start discussions. I think it's been said for a while that women like bad boys

SierraMistSoda · 2023-05-10T20:53:51+00:00

Good guys: Love and cherish you, will do anything to protect you, take a bullet for you

Bad guys: Spit on you and call you a whore during sex

PPD: Bad guys

EdwardTheeMasterful · 2023-05-10T22:27:35+00:00

So then all that hogwash about personality is rendered moot when the asshole with a brave and cocky yet bad personality (because he’s a jerk) is attractive. And the looks of the asshole on top of the jerkiness is what makes him desirable. But men have attraction to women that are hot and bitchy and sexy yet humble. Men’s attraction is more diverse and forgiving. For I’ve yet to see BBM be attracting women like BBW is a thing for some men. Short and tall women have admirers and only tall men have admirers and etc…..

MoldovaImComing · 2023-05-10T23:05:11+00:00

Close but incorrect. The most prominent example of gaslighting in dating/gender dynamics is that faced by short men.

The rest I agree with.

LingonberryGood3915 · 2023-05-10T23:18:39+00:00

women dont care about confidence, its a politically correct way of saying masculinity, which is mostly the expression of assertion, meaning implicit threat, power and backbone. thats what attracts women to them. they don't acknowledge this either because they don't understand and are just attracted similar to how many men simp for women who abuse them, but also its a calculated lie to protect the woke postmodern anti male/anti gender role agenda they have in their head. they know admitting it undermined their woke prograamming of saying they want weak and submissive men, and admitting they like strong and masculine men undermines woke ideology, and they wont undermine it and rather cut themselves in their own flash to protect their religious world view that grants them privilege and removes accountability.

New-Preparation9296 · 2023-05-11T02:16:14+00:00

These days there aren’t many men. Meaning a real man who owns himself. In many cases a trip to prison may mature a man and make him a better partner to her than the boys she meets much of the time. It’s a sad commentary on the state of men today that ex cons are some of the best out there

MisterDrac303 · 2023-05-11T03:49:46+00:00

Where are you from that this is the “norm” that you see?

My neck of the woods it is the complete opposite, doesn’t matter how hot a dude is if he isn’t emotionally mature and self aware he gets no action

Coolio_Street_Racer · 2023-05-11T04:52:11+00:00

Everybody's got an excuse. But no one wants to just say women like Dark Triad traits in men.

Laurely4u · 2023-05-11T06:53:00+00:00

Men seem to think that that if they mindlessly move forward and choose a woman with ideal looks, her glaring personality flaws can be somehow managed on the back end. Every other person witnessing the situation sees the red flags but for the man involved the blood has rushed away from his brain to inflate his boner

Lord-Beaky · 2023-05-11T07:38:19+00:00

I honestly don’t think women like these abusive men. It’s just it’s either they accept these men as their girlfriend. Wife. Or hookup partner or they will be killed

Courier_ttf · 2023-05-11T08:43:14+00:00

9/10 times these guys look like they just got out of prison and often have.

I have heard from women themselves, multiple times, that they are attracted to men that look like they just got out of prison.
Some women absolutely into that look.

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2023-05-11T09:12:39+00:00

Only partially correct. There are definitely some guys of questionable character, appearance and mental stability that get a lot of hot women, like DJs and street pharmacists well connected in nightlife. But most of these "abusers" are just hot charismatic/extroverted guys who don't treat women just how women expect to be treated because these men know they can easily get women who are as hot or hotter, so they treat them as replaceable.

_here_ok · 2023-05-11T11:48:51+00:00

Women without guidance go for bad natured men just like unguided men go for bad natured women.

Women who generally have good friends or family will tend to do way better. The reason for this is that ideas of respect when in the hands of bad family and friends become corrupted.

These bad members began to demand obedience, fake smiles and ect as signs of "respect" and "good nature.". In turn their victims have a wrong sense of these things.

If for example a person demands obedience but instead says respect. Then their victim will tend to view obedience as respect. They'll be stuck with a sense of controlling others or being controlled.

From what I can tell the most common misinterpretation of respect would be manners. Everyone is taught good manners = respect and in traditional settings women are specifically taught to pursue courteous men. However courtesy isn't respect. It's a set of actions and obligations one should do based on societal expectations.

Asking for consent, opening the door, giving gifts, and etc are all technically things people are expected to do. Any malicious or uncaring individual will just do these things, they won't do them out of care.

So what can women and men do? They need to set boundaries, find people who can accept no, people who actually put you on priority. Heck look at what a person values and compare how they act towards those things.

WanabeInflatable · 2023-05-11T12:39:53+00:00

Generalization is a bad idea. Some women go after abusive men. Some men go after bitchy women. It is up to you to filter out people with shit and gender stereotypes in their heads

ChristinasTits · 2023-05-11T14:27:44+00:00

We LOVE the smell of victim blaming in the morning don’t we?

Especially since OP doesn’t at all know or understand how these people got together in the first place, as if the guy was abusive to her from the beginning. As someone who’s been with an abusive guy, I can tell you this is not how it works.

But sure we’re gaslighting you. Women actually all love being abused, just don’t tell anyone. It’s a secret.

FluxingPixel · 2023-05-11T14:34:44+00:00

It's frustrating to see women excuse terrible behavior from men who aren't even conventionally attractive. The idea that confidence and arrogance are attractive qualities is damaging and needs to be deconstructed. It's disappointing that this behavior continues to be overlooked or excused.

hearyoume14 · 2023-05-11T22:33:57+00:00

People replicating their trauma is also a big part of it. Those butterflies aren’t necessarily a good thing.There’s a reason breaking up or cheating when things are stable and ho-hum is a thing.

social_mule · 2023-05-12T00:48:58+00:00

No one ever seems to want to acknowledge that women consistently go for abusive, bad natured men.

I disagree. People acknowledge this all the time.

Spyro7x3 · 2023-05-12T04:40:17+00:00

I've been to prison. First conversation I had was Kant vs Kierkegaard. Some of the most intelligent guys I've ever met were in prison to the point that I think in my state (Louisiana) its a brain drain. We have more prisoners per capita than China and NK combined. If you're a male there's a 20% chance you're going to jail here at least once.

Y'all underestimate prisoners here is my point. Also most "badboys" I see girls get with are all talk never been to jail once low grade weed dealers

NoTea4448 · 2023-05-16T16:24:03+00:00

Some women date good men, who were actually assholes

Some women date good men, who slowly turned into assholes.

Some women date men, despite them being assholes

And then some women are actually into assholes.

OP, just because there are assholes in relationships, doesn't mean the vast majority of women are into assholes. There are lots of reasons why people might find themselves in a relationship with an abuser, but that doesn't mean they love the abuse.

Unhappy_Ad_4420 · 2023-05-29T19:03:53+00:00

Men go for bitchy/toxic women simply because they put out or are hot all the time. I speak from experience. This isnt a woman only thing

Comments