Whats wrong with modern women

thedarkracer · 2025-04-24T10:29:26+00:00

More like they have in practice been matching upto men but their thinking hasn't changed. Still a lot expect men to earn higher than them, ask them out, pay for them (women on this sub), etc.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/whither-hypergamy

https://ifstudies.org/blog/better-educated-women-still-prefer-higher-earning-husbands#:~:text=Using%20sophisticated%20statistical%20models%20(log,to%20marry%20men%20in%20higher

Like times have changed for women but they haven't themselves.

growframe · 2025-04-24T10:39:10+00:00

I think a fair share of women are prone to infantilism and learned helplessness and it doesn't get called out enough

VietQuads · 2025-04-24T12:16:56+00:00

outside of PPD, it seems like the average modern woman either isn't aware of their hypergamy and its effect on their dating opportunities

One-Fig-4161 · 2025-04-24T11:05:00+00:00

I think it’s hard to explain. But women are socialised to view accountability differently to men. You can call it a function of the patriarchy if you want. But essentially, women tend to view themselves as powerless, floating around, succumbing to the whims of others. They’ll never blame themselves for their own life circumstances. Self improvement doesn’t tend to be a priority for women, and implying they should take responsibility for their behaviour tends to be met with derision. Meanwhile, for men it’s essentially the exact opposite, and we’re framed as in control of our own lives even in situations when we’re not.

Neither extremes are particular healthy, but it contributes to the view that men have a tougher ride. Because “do better” is a default thing to say to a man, and would be totally unacceptable to say to a women.

Enzi42 · 2025-04-24T12:44:05+00:00

Well, someone asked it so I'll answer I guess. Not all women obviously.

All I can speak for is myself, but my one true issue with a lot of women is that they have an almost "armor plated" sense of self righteousness and moral superiority.

Perhaps it overlaps with what people say about "accountability", but I have noticed many, many times that a lot of women will not only blame outside circumstances for poor or even cruel/evil behavior, but they will then turn around and make you the bad guy for not instantly forgiving them or taking it on the chin.

Look at how many times this arises when debates on feminism/misogyny and misandry come up. It never fails; you can talk about absolutely cruel and unprovoked behavior towards a man or even boy by a woman, and someone out there will blame it on trauma or built up anger due to suffering under a misogynistic patriarchy.

Worse, they'll then demand that men and boys just "deal with it" in the name of having "empathy". And if we refuse or continue to press the issue, then we're "being selfish" or "making it all about us".

There's a YouTube comedian I watched a long time ago (winter of 2021) that actually summed up this behavior pretty succinctly:

"Yes, I did that---but here's why I'M the real victim, and you need to forgive me."

No amount of reasoning, appeals to fairness or even human decency will get past this belief that they are the Wounded Party and thus have absolute moral right to be shitty, hence why I call it "armor plated self righteousness".

Hell, even using appeals to self interest like saying that repeatedly shitting on men can result in increased misogynistic extremism just results in assertions that any man or boy who joins the manosphere out of anger and disgust for misandrist rhetoric was "already bad to begin with".

Which basically is saying that those people should have just taken their proverbial beating better.

I will acknowledge that men are a huge problem with this, since so many of us nourish this foul dynamic by either just giving in or defending it by shouting down men who refuse to do so.

EDIT: I thought about leaving this out since it's much more complex but decided I'll just go for it. I never say this kind of stuff aloud or even type it out.

I also find it repulsive beyond words how certain women seem to be okay with involving literal children (including their own) in these gender wars in ways that I have rarely seen men do. It both blows my mind and makes me want to explode with anger when I see it, and I cannot understand how the minds of these people work beyond a few educated guesses.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2025-04-24T13:09:48+00:00

By "modern women" do you mean "women who exist right now and are actively participating in the dating market" or do you mean the post-feminist archetype of "Strong Independent Womyn Who Don't Need No Man"?

I'm going to PRESUME you mean the former, and before I begin I'll make the provisos: Not all women are like this, I'm merely speaking generally, there are many exceptions. And in addition the things below can exist in degrees, so I'm not saying All Women Are Always Like This All The Time.

But basically:

Ideological radicalization and resentment against men via many forms of feminist ideology.
Toxic Femininity - a mixture of extreme immaturity, hypoagency and "look at me I'm just a girl" that is deployed opportunistically and often thought of or embraced as empowering.
As an extension of the two above, a bizarre level of suspicion towards or even refusal to engage in systematic reasoning and a preference for "empathy" that results in highly distorted ethical and political beliefs that they are so solidly stuck in that they treat disagreement as an invalidation of their existence.
An often-subconscious/tacit sense of entitlement to men's effort, men's labor and resources, and men's altruism, that can be fairly thought of as a manifestation of problem 2 that is often rationalized as "compensation for the patriarchy" (via problem 1).
Extreme reluctance or complete inability to see things from the male perspective, and this is either a consequence of or something reinforced by problem 1.
Absolute refusal, if only tacitly, to extend or support the extension of sex-role liberation and the sexual revolution to males.

savethebros · 2025-04-24T15:06:27+00:00

The problem with modern women all comes down to thinking they aren't like the men they complain about, when in fact, they are much more similar to the men their age than previous generations of women were to their own generation of men.

They complain about men being self-centered, abusive, emotionally undeveloped, when women are the same way.

Maffioze · 2025-04-24T19:35:23+00:00

A weird belief in the idea that men are objectively more privileged even though this is impossible to prove because there is no objective scale to compare the relative importance of different advanrages and disadvantages each gender has.

Also, conformism and putting social desirability over truth or principles such as the scientific method.

Eschew_Sloth-232 · 2025-04-24T11:39:22+00:00

Women are nowhere near as empathetic, emotionally intelligent and nurturing as they would like to think.

Women are more shallow than men and most of their criticisms of the male approach to dating i.e. focus on looks, emotional availability, willingness to commitment...... is classic projection.

Women are not indifferent to unattractive, low status men they actively vilify them and treat them like garbage. Being alive and within her field of view is enough to trigger a woman as an unattractive men.

Women's belief in this mystical female intuition actually hurts them. It's really a tool to rationalize their repulsion towards unattractive men, so they create a narrative to vilify them....."women don't like you because you are a bad person".....Never put hands on a woman, raised my voice, manipulated etc Yet this intuition curiously always fails when it women to the men who actually harm women.

One of the core current arguments about the modern dating landscape is that women are retreating because men are not safe, kind, stable, emotionally available etc....Yet my observation is that the more narcissistic, amoral, abusive, destructive, emotionally stunted a man is the better he does with women. These kinds of men are not the ones suffering from the male loneliness crisis. The men who actually harm women always seem to be partnered.

I feel that women's hatred of men has very little to do with what men actually do. In other words there is no bar or standard of behaviour or decorum men can meet for women to collectively like men. When women are as free and unrestricted as they are in the west they show their true colours. So basically if we woke up tomorrow and suddenly there were no misogynistic, violent, abusive men and men became everything they claim they want there would be no change in the discourse towards men.

My hypotheses is that female hatred of men is innate when they are free. As a guy there is no inner work or therapy you can do to become good enough, you have committed an original sin by being born a man. Attractive, high status men can only escape this to an extent because at the end of the day they are still just a tool to women, a mirror to prove woman's worth amongst other women.

There is nothing you can actually do to make a woman happy. A woman's garden of eden is always something other than she currently has and when she gets what she wants, she will look to escape that in due course.

Despite all of this I wouldn't change anything. I wouldn't want to live in the 50s or some mythical traditional time where women were forced to play a role and I don't believe in turning back any of the advancements women have made. In some paradoxical, cynical way I am a feminist. Cynical because I believe as a man I can only make an honest choice about my path, values and morality seeing the true nature of the supposed fairer sex.

Livid-Log7463 · 2025-04-24T18:45:32+00:00

I’m not sure I’d call it “wrong” as I think it’s just part of reproduction but the fact that women have overwhelmingly similar capacity in attraction to men with very little breadth compared to men, but in the end it’s just a function of reproduction that women collectively will exclude men.

Perfect_Sir4820 · 2025-04-24T11:29:50+00:00

The dating stuff aside, I think most of the problems men have with women today aren't the women themselves but society's and the law's unequal treatment of men v women and vastly higher expectations of duty, accountability, etc for men.

I wouldn't blame women for that necessarily but would blame feminists and the simps who pander to them. It's not about equality in all but very limited circumstances (e.g. abortion rights), but is about establishing and maintaining privileges.

champion_azure · 2025-04-24T12:43:16+00:00

I've no issue at all, have whatever standards you wish, whatever go for it. Just don't gaslight.

ZaneBradleyX · 2025-04-24T11:02:30+00:00

I think one of the biggest issues today is that both men and women have unrealistic standards, especially women expecting a "perfect guy" without looking at his character or potential. And people in general judge way too fast without actually listening or understanding each other.

I got really lucky. My fiancée stayed with me when I had nothing, just because she believed in my ambition. And now I work hard to give her the life she deserves. I really hope more people find something real like that.

Clutterboxx · 2025-04-24T12:36:39+00:00

I saw a tiktok where a woman was scrolling through a list of men she met in one night, dozens phone numbers, few of them saved. Many were texting her to hang out or initiate conversation and she would text 5 at once before scrolling and making fun of a few.

A lot of these men were pretty well to do, one was even a doctor and she was wasting their time for attention. The attention she got from them apparently wasn't enough she had to post it on tiktok for even more attention.

The average modern woman probably has a dozen guys vying for her attention at any time, so she doesn't feel the need to put in any effort into her personality, communicating her feelings or herself in general aside from looking good. This is why women ghost and cancel plans on a whim, they will always have a fall back guy, that is until they start hitting their 30s and FOMO of starting a family sets in.

Women too ugly to receive attention from men like their peers decide to become non binary in the hopes of attracting a lesbian or questioning dude.

It seems the Internet has accelerated the worst impulses women have where anti social behaviours are promoted by algorithms and justified by faceless accounts that might not even be real people.

thedeadpill · 2025-04-24T15:00:15+00:00

I won't hazard any guesses on what made this a consistent experience, I'll call out the following things that turned me off dating (especially on apps) and women in general. Obligatory #notallwomen, there are plenty of 'good ones' out there.

The vast majority of women I've met are entitled and useless. Though the six-six-six rule is an internet exaggeration, a lot of them want you to be above average wealth, fitness, and have some pretty harsh beauty standards. Yet, simultaneously, they don't bring anything to the table. I'm not necessarily talking about domestic tasks; I wouldn't say a potential partner needs to be a very good cook... it's that they can't do anything and have zero expertise outside of their workplace. They don't have any hobbies other than watching television shows and 'wine tasting' (mostly just getting drunk).

Second, the women I meet often uncritically accept the idea that all men are privileged. When a woman fails at something, it's the patriarchy holding her back, but when a man fails at something, he didn't try hard enough. They are absolutely convinced of the absolute justice of the situation of there being a massive number of men who are just failing out of society, especially in the metrics that MRAs always talk about (addiction, suicide, homelessness, and college enrolment). There was an episode of Oprah (this is the one good one, I promise) in 1992, where she had an activist named Jane Elliot talk to a crowd about a (fictitious) study that blue-eyed people had lower intelligence scores, and were treated poorly compared to their brown-eyed guests. Ostensibly, the whole thing was about racism and the brown-eyed people in the crowd uncritically ate it up, saying the most vitriolic things, and even making up jokes about blue-eyed people's alleged inferiority on the spot. Women (IMO) are now in the same position as those brown-eyed people on the show; they have it good, with a couple of blotches from an imperfect world. But they are so absolutely and infuriatingly convinced that the average poor man deserves his plight, and it's this habitual and nearly mindless cruelty I cannot abide. It has honestly made me something of a misanthrope, because I'm certain that men wouldn't be too different if the roles were reversed, and there's not much room left for faith in humanity.

BobtheArcher2018 · 2025-04-24T14:45:35+00:00

We are all prisoners of culture at the individual level. We are all semi-deranged chimps with consciousness, living far from the environment many of our instincts are mostly tuned for. So I don't have a lot of blame for individual women.

I am disappointed that the more influential female thinkers are reluctant to engage with a lot of difficult issues candidly and openly. Or they are trapped by ideologies that obscure basic facts. I get why and all, but it is still a problem.

Emotional_Meal748 · 2025-04-24T15:45:37+00:00

They have taken it too far

DiscombobulatedTop8 · 2025-04-24T16:18:13+00:00

Everything in my experience has led to the understanding that a man has to try to fuck as soon as possible, and decide on a relationship later.

The idea of getting to know someone first is obsolete, unless you enjoy having her fuck other guys at the same time. There is no such thing as restraint, it's a free-for-all.

Of course, she may be upset later if you don't date her seriously. But at the end of the day, this behavior is rewarded.

xxTheMagicBulleT · 2025-04-24T17:40:49+00:00

Endless freedom with no responsibility or accountability. Is not the recipe for the best kind of people of society. For men or women. But cause its often the case for women. It naturally make more and more extreme acts more common from women.

Cause its easy to see women can get away with much more then men can so it has a downturn effect.

Same way if you give children that has a tantrum and give in to there wants or needs. Do that enough you create problem children and problem children turn to problem adults.

And people getting there way long enough will feel wronged when they for the first time dont get there way. What you can easily see with a lot of Karen videos or the extreme left haveing there freak out video's you see so often on the news and stuff. As the protest or destroying things. Cause they want the whole world to cater to them and treat them like there parents or partners in the past have put there needs above all else.

It literally breeds the worst and most selfish people possible on insane high numbers.

Instead of rewarding effort and marrit. To work for or earn your place or your stuff. And treating people how they treat others. So make people learn and forced to deal with there behaviors and faults to grow in much more functional members of society. What sadly often does not happen or much to late.

What for men is just not the case men get slapped with the results of there actions very quickly. So makes men be forced to be much more grounded and humble.

MolassesDesigner976 · 2025-04-24T11:16:47+00:00

Wanting all of the benefits of equality with none of the obligations.

Buying into a retarded Marxist feminist conflict theory of history as a story of men vs women.

Wanting to be respected while simultaneously wanting to be ragdolled in the bedroom, and being too solipsistic to understand why men don’t respect fuck meat.

Being the most pampered, privileged group of human beings in the history of civilization, and still insisting that men need to “do more.”

Having the social behaviors of sheep.

WanabeInflatable · 2025-04-24T10:24:00+00:00

I just think that it is not worth it. Dating, LTR, marriage. Being single is better. So occurred that I just made a long post about it on self (based on life experience). Than you ask it here.

Peter_Andre_IQ · 2025-04-24T14:39:35+00:00

I deal with women of various age and imo there are 3 issues that women have in general:

Neuroticism and drama - women overthink everything and tend to put too much emphasis on things that are of little importance. That makes dealing with women tiring and ineffective - many things can be done easier if women would just be more direct and less prone to conflict.
Lack of distance to themselves - men tend to be too much self-deprecating sometimes, but women go into other extreme, they tend to be dead serious over everything.
(this regards younger women) performative moral superiority. Young women(especially upper middle class) developed a strange 'religion' of moral superiority overfocused on some causes that are 'fashionable' to care about. Women tend to be zealots regarding LGBT or Veganism or some 'Social Issues' - but their declared 'empathy' is not taking into account groups they do not like or who are(currently) not cool enough to care about. Women might talk about global warming - but it won't stop them from flying to various places, women talk about inequalities but they buy stuff made by little children, women talk about equal chances but little boys are excluded from their agenda, also they put surprisingly little care about mothers, and so on. This is very shallow and annoying - especially because it's paired with 'calling out' that is just nice name for throwing stones at everyone not sharing their views. This 'religion' seems to have one goal - make the world a better place for upper middle class women and their friends, with a little spice of curated diversity to add some interesting flavor to their world(but not too much).

wtknight · 2025-04-24T13:58:35+00:00

There is nothing really “wrong” with western women. Women’s pickiness and frustration with men is all about hypergamy. If women are doing better in the west, then men need to do even better than that for women to be attracted. A lot of men just don’t want to put in the work or don’t think that it’s worth it, so these men end up either suffering or just giving up.

Not to entirely blame men, the whole “bar is hell” thing from women is complete bullshit. The same women who claim this will a few minutes later talk about the silliest things that will “ick” them out about men. I can’t really respect a woman who won’t acknowledge that she is picky, and the “bar is hell” thing is just a power psy op by women to get more high value men to behave exactly how they want them to.

ClevelandSpigot · 2025-04-24T16:53:31+00:00

The top 80 percent of women go after the top 20 percent of men, and women find 80 percent of men unattractive. If you graph that out, and press the play button, it does not turn out well.

If a woman cannot afford her child, she gets money from the government. If a man cannot afford his child, he goes to jail. This is not the woman's fault, but it is the environment in which men make decisions for themselves.

Women almost always think of themselves and rate themselves a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. They also almost always do not take accountability for anything. Women will usually likely want to die before they admit fault for something.

Women are very negative. They think that it is only other women who are watching their candid TikToks. Men watch them too, and women are horrible.

Women typically wear makeup, even though most men hate it, and then claim that it isn't deceptive at all. You are purposely wearing makeup to change your appearance. How is that not deceptive?

Women think that having a child makes them more valuable, and thus, they raise their standards. I do not know any rich men out there who are saying to themselves, "Okay, I'm a millionaire now. I make $300K a year. If I could just find a single mother..."

BigMadLad · 2025-04-24T19:34:48+00:00

Honestly, my main complaint is that they will at large never accept personal responsibility because many of them either don’t want to or can’t because of payback for an actual oppressive time. When you really get down to it the best you get out of many women is yes I messed up, but insert Patriarchy, my mom wasn’t able to do what she wanted, and more things about the past. Essentially a lot of women are salty about previous generations when they actually were oppressed, but are taking those stories as excuses for bad behavior now . It’s literally let me get mine mentality, Which is terrible for an equal society.

Believe me, I’m very much aware of how screwed women were throughout history, and it really wasn’t until the mid 70s They got fair banking and credit to be independent. However, you cannot tell me a woman born today in say the year 2000 has any of the same experiences of oppression that their grandma did. In fact, they have the opposite experience of power as many DEI programs and women in stem programs are forcing them to be accelerated to positions of power, as evident by them going to college more than boys. Yet, they are taking advice from their elders, as if it has any semblance of relevance for today, and taking that extended grief and anger, and not actually taking accountability or improving themselves. TLDR: women are plagued by victim mentality.

I’m not even talking about raising their voice and fighting for things that are actually important like abortion rights, but a lot of them are assuming it’s the year 1985 and women are still expected to be secretaries. That’s just not the reality we live in anymore and it’s not an excuse to not improve.

kvakerok_v2 · 2025-04-24T14:13:39+00:00

Performative religiousness, performative faithfulness, performative loyalty, performative traditionalism, performative monogamy. All-pervasive hypocrisy. Turn the goddamn cameras off and live out your actual values, fucks sake.

Trancetastic16 · 2025-04-24T11:40:38+00:00

A hyper-capitalist and hyper-individualist economy and culture that has encouraged people to spend time and money on themselves over in the community.

This has been worsened by Gen Z growing up in car/city-centric designed societies, racial segregation through economic gentrification to lower income neighborhoods, immigrant groups being given seperate neighborhoods, addiction to social media and dating apps, declining third spaces (especially in lower income neighborhoods), inflation, rise of far-right politics in power, and Covid worsening all of the above.

There is a literal housing crisis in UK, Canada, and Australia, but this unhealthy culture encourages hypergamy-inflation where people are directly encouraged to aim higher and higher with their standards in education, career, Quality Of Living, and dating despite there not being enough above-average of everything to go around and many education slots in University classrooms are filled by immigrants.

I also think modern Feminism and other social movements have not encouraged more open gender roles for men like they have for women and LGBT men often don’t feel welcomed even in other LGBT communities which tend to be Lesbian/Trans-women/Non-binary female focused and LGBT men have to start their own seperate groups.

I personally think all of this is connected as all of these factors, particularly men working lower income jobs more, receiving less scholarships and DEI hiring, causes them to live in lower income neighborhoods; and LGBT people also have to live in these neighborhoods as well due to experiencing employment discrimination more often, and Trans people having to pay extra for their medical treatments; as well as racial minorities, elderly pensioners, homeless people, disabled people, etc.

Many virtue-signalling left-wing advocates, particularly Caucasian Feminist women who were given extra scholarships, DEI hiring and grew up from wealthier families within the cities, are privileged from these societal problems and claim to care about social equality only to support this unhealthy western society structure and politically vote for it, when these societal issues make it a problem for the disadvantaged to have time and money to date their matches including at the social third spaces and social groups pre-dominantly located within the city centres.

I believe this unhealthy western social structure is particularly an issue in the UK, United States, Canada, Australia, Japan and South Korea and we have already seen the long-term consequences for dating in the latter two countries.

No-Ground604 · 2025-04-24T14:53:24+00:00

i believe men and women tend to be closer in personality than ppl acknowledge, and long standing social narratives have hurt our ability to understand each other

women straight up are not nearly as empathetic as they like to present themselves as. if you understand them as you understand yourself you find ppl simply doing what is in their best interest regardless of other ppl involved, which should be expected. the idea that women are generally more compassionate or emotionally intelligent than men is just flat out wrong imo, and there’s a lot of problems that stem from that bc it’s easy (broadly) to acknowledge the way men manifest their will by wielding physical power (strength and aggression), but it’s uncomfortable to have conversations abt the covert ways women wield power through social narratives and covert manipulation

on top of the fact that it’s hard to know what you should want for yourself in the future when you’re young, it feels like these social narratives constantly get used to make individuals act against their own self interest. i am not a religious person by any means and generally don’t even have much respect for religion, so it’s weird to think that imo currently the best advice you could possibly give a (even liberal secular) man for finding a woman even worth considering marriage with is joining a church bc liberal women broadly aren’t worth entertaining. a lot of them are socialised to be bad ppl imo and to assume the worst in others in a way that justifies bad in themselves, i.e., all men are cheated so don’t expect too much from your man (which is crazy by itself) and go ahead and “have fun” if you feel like it by doing things that if they were done to you would be considered emotional cheating- like making yourself available to other ppl for inappropriate conversations

i think if you’re a liberal guy you will inevitably run into this weird thing where in the feminist lens those women en mass embrace masculinity in themselves whilst in the SAME breath demonising femininity in you. again it’s not abt principle, it’s abt what serves their interests, which is having a masculine man even in a world where they feel they ought not be expected to perform femininity. for all the headache it takes to be w a conservative, at least you generally know what to expect from them and they will happily perform femininity to reciprocate your masculinity. may not be ideal if you believe in the deconstruction of gender roles, but it can be certainly be healthy when she willingly submits herself to you as the leader of the household to trust you will take the responsibility that comes with authority

there’s a lot left unsaid cause there’s so much to say abt this topic in general, but i think the broad claim i want to reinforce is that EVERYONE should stop pedestalising women and believing false narratives. even without conscious thought, believing that women are in any way more “pure” than men, more compassionate, more intelligent, more attractive, more deserving of anything is just sexist and harmful and needs to be done away with.

like the idea that men can’t put their hands on women but women are generally weaker so it’s “less bad”. no, it’s wrong point blank so don’t do it. that’s why so many men are silently victims of dv, silently victims of all sorts of malice at the hands of women bc ppl foolishly perceive the collective before the individual when that should rarely be the case when understanding interpersonal dynamics. a lot of women that weren’t raised to take accountability for their actions will hide behind their womanhood to excuse their malicious behaviour, when it’s rlly just that they’re shitty ppl w shitty personalities. and obviously on the flip side there’s equivalents but that doesn’t need to be said cause it’s always being said- what ppl need to hear more is not that “men suck and society sucks”- society doesn’t mean anything but the ppl who inhabit it. many women suck and are capable of bringing great danger into your lives, and you as the recipient of said danger should be vigilant and understand that “society” (other men and women in your life) will instead talk you into staying in unhealthy relationships w toxic women bc there are no larger social imperatives to call out and hold women accountable for the toxicity they spread amongst themselves. for example, the “emotionally intelligent” sex joking amongst themselves in their tiktok videos abt how most of them will get mad at their husbands/bfs/men in their lives for being upset at them first, regardless of if the man’s initial upset was justified. they would never fly in reverse and would be called all sorts of things like narcissistic abuse. it’s okay to be upset when upsetting things happen, and a partner that truly loves you should never make you feel incapable of having or guilty having those emotions in the first place. then the same group of emotionally intelligent ppl will wonder why men broadly speaking aren’t willing to be emotionally vulnerable w women

nonquitt · 2025-04-24T17:41:39+00:00

This is difficult to articulate, and it isn’t something women even do, it’s more a paradigm present in the “discourse” around women/gender these days. A good illustrative example is the soliloquy at the end of the Barbie movie where she laments the various public and private sphere expectations to which she feels beholden and how to reconcile that with her own desires for her life, which she isn’t really sure of because of all the different expectations she has to navigate in the first place.

This is a theme I notice in a lot of articles in the New Yorker, Atlantic, etc. as well — women used to only have private sphere expectations and now they have public and private sphere expectations, so there is this idea that women should be everything to everyone.

Again more a theme in the discourse, but there are women who maintain some anxiety around this concept that they need to constantly be everything to everyone and have such high and diverse standards for themselves that they never meet them and so therefore are anxious.

And it’s just weird — men don’t hold ourselves to all of these different standards. With freedom comes choice, you don’t need to be everything to everyone — but, and this is something I do notice in women in my life, women are so worried all the time about not meeting some expectation or not checking some box or whatever, that they drive themselves crazy. Whereas men will definitely disappoint people but not care, which is important to be able to do in modern life. Not every yahoo in the world needs your time and energy.

Anyway this thematic paradigm becomes more annoying when it spawns like articles and thought pieces analyzing normal everyday dynamics through this lens of “women are feeling sad that there may be expectations that some people have that they aren’t meeting,” and it comes across as like having this need for whatever choice that is being made to be validated as morally or socially laudable, whereas men generally have a “just do your job, pay your bills, have your fun, and don’t worry about other peoples business” attitude about things. An illustrative example would be like there will be an article one week “it’s ok to be a stay at home mom,” then next week, “it’s ok to not want kids,” then next week “it’s ok for a woman to love her job more than her husband.” And it’s like, alright?

These types of things just come across as self aggrandizing borne from a need for everything one does to be validated as socially or morally laudable — and that overall vibe is something I do sometimes notice in both men and women (but more so in women) in my personal life and is something I find unlikable in concentrated doses.

It kind of makes sense perhaps if you ascribe to a historical-sociological perspective where men have historically been the atom of society’s function such that we all do what we need to to ensure that tomorrow comes, and women have historically somewhat been the atom of society’s morality and purpose in shaping social values and teaching them to children

JonMyMon · 2025-04-24T18:57:11+00:00

I think these are less modern women problems and just problems I have with women in general.

They're tribalistic. So often it feels like women are repeating the same talking points in the same ways. Men's takes can be just as dumb and irrational (they turned out more for Trump, after all) but there's at least more diversity of thought.
They're absolutely terrible at receiving criticism. There are times when a man will criticize a woman, she'll freak out, and then the man will have to calm her down and the interaction becomes all about tending to her emotions.
They're infantilized. A lot of women want a husband who's a father figure. They want him to fill in deficiencies that they have, whether that means he's more confident than them, more proactive, or more of a leader.

Preact5 · 2025-04-24T19:24:12+00:00

Things mentioned in this thread aside, I wish modern women were more available.

Every time I see a cute girl in public she's with a pack of her friends or just trying to do her own thing. I wish women would either make a move on me or give me more clear signals she wants me to come talk to her. I don't do the apps so it'd help me out a lot when meeting someone new.

Hi-Road · 2025-04-24T22:28:41+00:00

I mean personally would take a "modern" woman with a great personality over a "premodern"(?) woman with a great personality any day. I feel that modern women have more agency, freedom, and are more open about their ideas and desires.

My kinda gripe is that there are many that straight up aren't trying to grow as individuals, which is fine I guess, but they're blaming that on everyone and everything but themselves. Some of the weird stuff I've seen lately -

-Not taking accountability for their own actions and decisions. I swear this has something to do with how they want to be perceived by other people. Like their ego can't deal with someone seeing them as less than a perfect being. Idk, this one is weird and I don't want to speak for anyone.

- Pushback from women in terms of "equalizing" the genders. We boost women to be more comfortable stepping out of traditional gender roles, but many of those same women want to keep men in the same box in terms of responsibility. I.e - I want you to pay all the bills - your money is our money and my money is my money, traditional chivalry needs to stay but women shouldn't be beholden to any social conduct anymore, I don't like that activity you're doing

- Also, many are homophobic and try to use "gay" as an insult to influence men's thoughts and decisions. Don't drink that, you look gay. Don't order dessert, you look gay. Don't know how to build a gazebo? Gay. Don't want to sleep with me? Reject me? You must be gay.

- Using men as status symbols. Again, equalizing the genders. Women are starting to want to flex their husbands like men have flexed their wives in the past. It feels like many are looking for a checklist they can show off to their girlfriends and other women. Tall man? Status symbol for women. Husband? Status symbol for women. That husband make a lot of money? Status symbol for women. Posting all that on social media? Status symbol for women.

- What's up with everything being about looks? Get into it with another woman? All of a sudden she's ugly and fat. Guy dumped you? He was hideous the whole time and he was lucky you even gave him a chance. And that new girl he's with? Ugly as hell, major downgrade from you, for sure.

Like maybe he left cause you're an insufferable meangirl?

I really think we're just adapting to changing social norms. I don't think there's some big difference between men and women. We could make just as big of a list about shit men do way more than women. But I do wish people would put more stock on personal responsibility and growth.

Comfortable-Dare-307 · 2025-04-24T23:42:51+00:00

Women have unrealistic expectations because they read romance novels and watch romantic-comdies and listen to the media's protrayal of the man whose supposed to grovel, beg and act like a fool before women. Women treat us like we're their personal servant, and expect us to do everything for them. While we get nothing in return. A woman will sacrifice her family for her happiness and a man will sacrifice his happiness for his family.

petellapain · 2025-04-24T23:43:13+00:00

They are too far left. They are emotionally cold. They are ungrateful towards men in general. They are rigid in their stances on things, most of which are unreasonable. They seem to despise conventional masculinity unless it is coming from another woman or an extremely attractive man. Overall they are just not pleasant.

macromastseeker · 2025-04-25T00:19:15+00:00

Expecting to be taken seriously when they operate entirely on feelings, never admit they're wrong, and take zero responsibility for anything. They want all the BEST parts of every encounter with the responsibility of a toddler and the prestige of a CEO. It's systemic selfishness and hypocrisy is unreal.

United_Iron369 · 2025-04-25T00:42:14+00:00

There is no pressure on women to adhere to their gender roles, whilst men are expected to be simultaneously progressive AND masculine.

No_Airport2112 · 2025-04-25T00:47:22+00:00

As a romantic person, I usually don't mind doing the wooing, the compliments, the poems(yuck, I know). And, more so in the past, I used to be told by female friends that they wished guys were more like me. And I thought, yeah and I wish women were more like me too lol. I don't think women have the tendency to try and make their partner feel special.

Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2025-04-24T10:43:52+00:00

I don't have much to complain. I would say women seem to have more needs and many of them look self inflicted to the extend I am asking myself how they could potentialy hope to be happy in general

It's a fact, they are happier out of a relationship but it looks like a woman is more miserable than a man in general

anonymousppd123123 · 2025-04-24T11:59:15+00:00

The root cause analysis boils it down to 2 things

1) the culture has enabled women by teaching them that their white noise fee fees are valid and that they should act on them. Men entering the market or dealing with women in general are constantly interacting with the oldest teenager in the room throwing a tantrum and have to at least facetiously take it seriously for appearances. This essentially sets up a how much stupid shit is she worth dealing with dynamic which is made worse by

2) Due to a variety of compounding factors one of which there's an active thread on (population aging out due to women not doing their 1 job having kids + all men wanting young women), the hoeflation index is at a massive unprecedented all time high and will continue to surge higher in the future. The effects of this are obvious, if you go looking for a car and an ancient camry with 200k miles is 10k you're likely to say "fuck that I'll take the train" if it's an option. Especially if you bought one for $2000 a few years ago

avoidingpsychos · 2025-04-24T16:05:22+00:00

We all live our own contradictions to varying degrees, but I think contemporary women — particularly the typical liberal-leaning, college educated, upwardly mobile white woman who lives in a major city — is not prepared to address their own contradictions and work on them in a meaningful way.

What I mean by this is that many woman have extremely high standards for other people and in the men that they date, but you have to wonder if they are also meeting their own standards in their own daily life. There are contradictions where many woman signal their liberal identity and "allyship" on Instagram and elsewhere, but may actually be quite mean and uncompassionate to people in their own community and personal lives.

And I think the really big issue these days is the late stage of the "boss babe" movement, where it crosses over from empowerment and taking control of your life to becoming effectively self worship. So many woman live a main character type of life and have this insatiable need to constantly be amused, be entertained, travel to new places, spend money, go drinking, etc. It's basically just consumption and consumerism on steroids.

And as far as dating goes, many of these types of women want a fully developed, self actualized, totally healed man as a reward for existing and a totally healed man that can merge into their ideal version of their own life instead of seeing people as inherently flawed and constantly growing and changing. It feels like most of these woman, specifically, have never been told "no" or never really had to struggle for themselves. They resent men who want a partner who is demure, who is affectionate and meets specific gender norms, but want a man who is tall, who will fix things, do chores for them, cook dinner, and take care of their car. How do women rationalize that?

EvilTribble · 2025-04-24T14:29:28+00:00

The problem with modern women is that they are feminists. They abandon their societal role in order to do a poorer job at a role they don't even like. They think they should get credit and social status for doing so and men have permitted this charade to go on for decades.

catdog8020 · 2025-04-24T19:15:24+00:00

<image>

This meme explains it all

DGenerationMC · 2025-04-24T20:54:03+00:00

They're human.

Crazy, right?

Odd-Talk-3981 · 2025-04-24T14:00:09+00:00

My main issue is that traditional expectations are still too strong, especially when it comes to gender roles.

I also believe that women shouldn't feel pressured to tolerate inconsiderate behavior from their partners, and I'm not just referring to outright abusive behavior - since I want to avoid any suggestion of victim-blaming - but also the subtle stuff that gets brushed off as "harmless". Too often, they're the ones expected to compromise the most.

For example, I remember a woman who told me that her boyfriend expected her to join him for meals with his parents, which she did - but he consistently refused to do the same with hers. That kind of imbalance is a red flag to me.

Or take the case of oral sex: If a guy doesn't want to go down on his partner, that's fine - everyone has boundaries - but he shouldn't expect her to give him BJs in return. A healthy relationship should be based on mutual respect and reciprocity. If someone isn't willing to give what they're getting, I wish more people, especially women, would feel empowered to walk away.

The truth is, many men only start to reflect when they are faced with real consequences. Words can be nice, but consistent actions matter more.

I hear a lot of men complain that women have "too high standards". Personally, I believe those standards aren't high enough.

NeoKlang · 2025-04-24T10:36:55+00:00

more modern women are higher achievers in education and high value careers earlier in life but they don't persevere enough to continue and start to blame men for making rules to hold them back

PlainTundra · 2025-04-24T11:45:14+00:00

What kind of issues do you commonly deal with when it comes to dating, or women in general?

Nothing really, I filter out the ones I don't like automatically.

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Kreeps_United · 2025-04-25T01:42:57+00:00

They can't decide if they're modern or traditional.

Angryspazz · 2025-04-25T03:03:50+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Logos1789 · 2025-04-25T04:45:49+00:00

Instead of acknowledging that feminism is just an exertion for social power, like every social movement fundamentally is, they have to pretend as though it’s an equality movement that almost exclusively focuses on benefitting women.

SomeSugondeseGuy · 2025-04-24T22:04:33+00:00

A lot of women only see the worst in others and never hold themselves to the same standard.

On the flipside, a lot of men expect the most from others but never do their best themselves.

Quealpedoestoy · 2025-04-25T01:10:28+00:00

At this point I think its easier to ask whats not wrong with modern womenn, the list will certainly be shorter.

Schleudergang1400 · 2025-04-24T15:46:58+00:00

Women are not promiscuous enough.

abaxeron · 2025-04-24T12:05:57+00:00

I have no problem with women. Women are perfect as they are. Women's general patterns of behavior (no matter how "icky" they may seem at a first glance) are the result of 2 billion years of evolution. I am not quite "adjusted" to dealing with (average) women in everyday life, but I handled it like an adult and spent 23 years of my career working in male-dominated environments.

My problem is with male simps/enablers, who come out of their male simp enabler caves and convince women that they basically should become men. Or at least try really hard.

Melodic_Structure928 · 2025-04-25T07:38:45+00:00

obsession with upholding the women are wonderful effect and female in group bais.

Most_Read_1330 · 2025-04-25T18:08:26+00:00

Gaslighting - "The bar is on the floor! Literally all you have to do is take a shower/comb your hair and you'll be swimming in women!"

Melodic_Structure928 · 2025-04-25T07:34:28+00:00

They often expect you to improve and improve yourself to meet often ridiculous stands and often don’t try to improve themselves because there prefect the way they are and know there worth.

they keep talking about the men they need and deserve in there life but never ask why would he want me in his life how would I improve things from him, in comparison men are often forced to ask this question or they simply do not usually get dates.

wtknight · 2025-04-24T11:08:10+00:00

Removed. No internal questions (men asking men or women asking women).

ExcelsiorState718 · 2025-04-26T06:15:40+00:00

They just have the freedom to act on how they've always wanted they've had 50 years of feminist brainwashing , have adopted and illogical mindset and become dillusional.

I watch a show called Kendra G singles every episode a bunch if women come on whom the majority are 4s at best over weight over age and single moms, the proceed to talk about how much a man needs to make I Remer some 60 year old woman needs to make "over 6 figures" a year which would be atleast a million dollars

Alot of them say over 6 figures when Kendra informs them how much money that is they often revise to 500k or some other equally ridiculous number.

Aby way its mostly fat boss chick's the young attractive ones are bobble heads equally dillusional

Woman want it all and aren't willing to comprise on anything I suspect women have always wanted this bug in the past they had no choice but to settle and compromise.

As a man all you can do is hope to find a normal sane woman a Diamond in the rough one without 3 diffrent baby daddies an only fans,300k in student loan debt

In short freedom of choice is what's wrong with modern women the Taliban understand this not that I agree with their methods but I get it. Unfortunately women are the vessel of life and their collective antics effect the destiny of a nation.How will the projected 50% of women being single by 2030 and free fall birth rates effect the country is yet to be determined.

SinlessTitan · 2025-04-27T05:59:19+00:00

I get what you are saying, but I really think theres more to it than just socialization and upbringing. Theres definitely evolutionary genetic and biological factors that play into it too.

Men and women evolved under different roles. Women had to be more emotionally attuned for things like raising kids and building social bonds, while men were more selected for traits like stoicism, risk taking, hunting, and being able to remain calm under stress.

I agree with you that men can express emotions just like women, but generally speaking, women tend to do it more openly and naturally. I dont think its just society telling men to hide their emotions. There’s biological wiring underneath us all that makes this true, and theres studies for this that back it up. Socialization might make some men more emotional than others, or some women less emotional than some men, but socialization alone didnt invent the differences out of nowhere in my opinion

Filmguy000 · 2025-04-27T09:25:54+00:00

I have some issues with this (let me know if you disagree):

-I am a 39 year old man.

-Never cheated on a woman.

-I have a good amount of experience with dating/relationships.

-Never struggled with addictions.

-Never have been in trouble with the law.

-I own my home (nice condo).

-I'm a pretty good cook (according to others)

-I know how to fix most household issues.

-I have worked since I was 17 and am educated.

-I come from a loving family.

-I am also very well liked by most people I encounter.

-Love to do wood work and welding (made a lot of my furniture for my home)

-I have always been financially responsible (don't overspend, always save)

However:

-I'm 5'6.

-I'm bald (shave my head but have a cool and well maintained thick beard to make up for it)

-I work in Maintenance and make a tad shy of $60k.

-Also, I'm not obese but I'm a little bit on the chubby side (again, love to cook).

The last four points pretty much shave off at least 2/3 of women from being interested in me. Whereas, a couple decades ago, I would be considered a potential decent catch.

No-Breath6663 · 2025-04-27T19:29:37+00:00

Women falsely believe they are independent and do not need men. Women manipulate society at every turn to their advantage and provide nothing of value back. In the process of doing so they damage men and then turn around and play the victim.

This issue is so baked in and pervasive at this point that 1 in 4 women are diagnosed mentally ill, and the true number is likely much higher.

Title	Whats wrong with modern women
Author	Agile_Vanilla_1802
Upvotes	138
Comments	711
Date	April 24, 2025 10:20 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1k6oqi5/whats_wrong_with_modern_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/whats-wrong-with-modern-women.1550486 https://theredarchive.com/post/1550486

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