What’s your opinion on the 4B movement coming to America?

DarayRaven · 2024-03-24T18:04:52+00:00

So is this like MGTOW but in a female version ?

dark000monkey · 2024-03-25T01:18:11+00:00

Oh no! The 0 women fighting for my attention has now dropped to 0

John_Oakman · 2024-03-24T19:17:36+00:00

The men who are guilty won't be affected [in significant quantities] and the males who will be affected aren't the guilty ones [in significant quantities]. The movement will unlikely to achieve their goals (of equality, freedom, and justice) simply because of the methods they employ (or rather, the inevitable exceptions they'll make to their doctrine).

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2024-03-24T18:06:04+00:00

Neither gender is the unilateral problem. People from both genders might have to settle if they want a partner. People from neither gender has to settle if they’re ok potentially being alone.

Some men MGTOW. This is just WGTOW. If people want to do that as individuals, that is their choice.

cromulent_weasel · 2024-03-24T20:30:20+00:00

4b doesn't seem that much different from people joining monasteries or nunneries back in the day.

People are free to do what they want.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-03-24T17:56:49+00:00

Never heard of it. I don’t think this is likely to show up outside of extreme fringe groups and as rage fodder for the incel crowd.

HappyVer · 2024-03-24T18:01:47+00:00

It doesn't matter.

Women also called for all other women to go on a sex strike for various other reasons in the past and nothing really happened. It's never worked.

bison5595 · 2024-03-24T20:28:33+00:00

If women in those countries don’t want to have kids or be in relationships, that’s their right. The men in those countries should just find the women who want a family

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-03-24T20:56:30+00:00

I bet SK government gives little shit about 4B since it targets average men who are govt & corp slaves themselves and aren't given a single fuck about instead of actually opposing powers that keep these policies in effect.

Live_Guidance7199 · 2024-03-24T21:06:42+00:00

"The movement's founders say the group has nearly 4K people."

In a country of 55M...

Teflon08191 · 2024-03-24T18:11:20+00:00

No wonder South Korea seems so hell-bent on committing demographic suicide.

ComfortableJeans · 2024-03-24T18:27:37+00:00

It's just more Internet nonsense that'll end up with 85% of the population oblivious to it, 14.9% of the population ridiculing it online and .1% of the mentally ill population practising it.

And I prefer my own homemade mental illnesses, as opposed to imported Asian mental illness.

TarJen96 · 2024-03-24T18:13:03+00:00

South Korea has the world's lowest birth rate, so no.

Electric_Death_1349 · 2024-03-24T18:02:45+00:00

This has very “you can’t fire me - I quit!” vibes about it; the only women who’ll embrace it are the type of insufferable terminally online radfems/femcels that even the most desperate of men will stay well clear of

Safinated · 2024-03-24T18:06:16+00:00

We’ve had it for 30+ years already, so there will be little change

Korea was just behind the US and Europe

Independent-Mail-227 · 2024-03-24T18:16:42+00:00

Good, the faster we accelerate the faster things will return to their natural order.

szclimber · 2024-03-24T18:06:41+00:00

This is nonsense. Most young women want and are having romantic and sexual experiences with men. The desire and ability to have children is a more complex issue

SoPolitico · 2024-03-24T18:59:12+00:00

Do you have a link to this man that told everyone they’re going to have to settle? I’m unfamiliar with this but it sounds like one of those echo-chambery things

Devilishz3 · 2024-03-25T01:14:38+00:00

It's MGTOW for women. I have girl friends from SK (I'm also Asian). This whole movement is far from the majority and the decline in birth rates has much more to do with money. Property is expensive there, all the good jobs are in Seoul (in a country of 51m), competition is high, people spend money they don't have on luxury because of status and the fact they don't foresee owning property in Seoul at any reasonable timeframe outside of marrying rich.

I don't think much will change if it came to America. SK's issues regarding dating and how it relates to socioeconomics is America on steroids. Their standards are higher.

TeachMePlease7777 · 2024-03-24T19:09:10+00:00

This 4B thing is extreme. Extremes are attractive to the young and the despondent. Ban children from the internet and things will slowly get better. "4B," "MGTOW," are groups full of bitter, unhappy people who have been indoctrinated through the internet. The sexes are doing fine. It's all just metaphorical epic battles being fought through typed words.

ayelijah4 · 2024-03-24T20:01:04+00:00

basically wgtow

philseven12 · 2024-03-24T22:52:12+00:00

i could care less, women are still going to fuck regardless what goofy movement shows up. feminism and its other iterations have no power over me getting into hookups or situationships. and if i was in south korea id still be doing my thing with no slow down

Sessile-B-DeMille · 2024-03-25T02:29:12+00:00

If South Korea is pushing pro Nataliya policies, they're failing miserably. SK has one of the world's lowest fertility rates.

Alternative_Poem445 · 2024-03-25T08:36:30+00:00

lets watch the world burn then, i call their bluff

towerofcheeeeza · 2024-03-25T10:23:33+00:00

4B is a pretty radical feminist movement. In the US as a young woman from a pretty liberal part of the country, I rarely see any women who follow radical feminist ideals. Most women I know are more aligned with the views of liberal feminism.

But I have heard that among Gen-Z radical feminist views are rising amongst a small but growing minority. I don't really see the full extent of 4B taking root here but those rad fem values are definitely going to be popular amongst some women who feel that liberal feminism doesn't benefit them.

abaxeron · 2024-03-24T19:04:42+00:00

South Korea’s patriarchal state

"All citizens shall be equal before the law, and there shall be no discrimination in political, economic, social or cultural life on account of sex, religion or social status."

Constitution of the Republic of Korea, chapter 2, article 11, point 1, revised 1987 edition.

I am surprised(/s) that a women's movement is once again declaring war on windmills.

Most of current strife-like condition between the sexes goes all the way back to 19th century, where most of things that men see as catastrophic downfall and women as "human right" started growing exponentially. Just like men, women are living beings reacting to their environment in accordance to their innate predispositions, training, and experience. Just like men, women like to dress this fact up in fancy words and call it "a movement" to pretend that it's ackckckshully an act of rebellious free will.

On the other hand, if this "movement" "takes root" in the US, if they manage to formulate some sort of political demand, and when this political demand will inevitably be met (because women hold all the power), the new generation of feminists will have an excuse to pretend that women did not have any rights until year 2024.

Fabulous_HonestTea · 2024-03-24T18:39:45+00:00

sex with men, child-rearing, dating men and marriage with men

So, exactly what they’re doing now?

Except Chad, of course.

Toxic_LigmaMale · 2024-03-24T18:17:13+00:00

Well, the movement will die in a generation. So…

Dertross · 2024-03-24T18:08:28+00:00

It's wild how women champion freedom and voluntary association in their personal lives but turn around and demand the government enact anti-discrimination laws, affirmative action laws.

Women's refusal to associate with men on a personal level is predicated on the government forcing men to associate with women on a economic and financial level.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-03-24T18:13:25+00:00

Sounds dumb.

alotofironsinthefire · 2024-03-24T18:42:44+00:00

No, South Korea's problems stem from how sexist their society is and how much they work their own people into the ground.

The US already has a long feminism movement and is much closer to equality than SK.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2024-03-24T18:09:28+00:00

I’m all for it. Men are asking too much and offering too little. It’s best for women to just stay single as single women have less work and more play. Why settle just to suffer? Sex and kids aren’t worth the suffering.

Excellent_Tank5672 · 2024-03-24T18:34:11+00:00

Oh no!

Oh well.

Top-Local-7482 · 2024-03-24T19:03:28+00:00

Whatever they want, if that works for them, then just be it.

Not everyone is a good fit for anyone else, there will still be people dating other people undisturbed by all theses movements. Thoses who don't want to date will just stay single and that's also good.

badgersonice · 2024-03-24T20:17:08+00:00

However many women in America are pushing for the movement to take place here as well.

“Many women”. How many? I haven’t even heard of this at all. Please present evidence that this is anything other than a tiny fringe group.

Own-Artichoke653 · 2024-03-25T00:11:55+00:00

Sounds like a bunch of angry, lost, and delusional women with little care for anyone but themselves.

The 4B movement is meant to serve as a direct opposition to South Korea’s patriarchal state and combat its pro-natalist policies

So they are angry that South Korea is desperately trying to reverse course and save the country after implementing decades of implementing a feminist dream of mass provision of contraceptives and sterilization, as well as large benefits for not having children. As a result, the population is set to decline by 50% by 2100, or about 26 million people. This will absolutely devastate the country and needs to be turned around.

WilliamWyattD · 2024-03-25T01:11:34+00:00

4B is not the solution we are looking for. Neither is MGTOW. At best, both are temporary bargaining positions for a gender. Everyone sane knows that at the end of the day, men and women need to work together to create a society. Unless someone has some amazing new idea, we need widespread monogamy for family creation and child raising. We can argue whether we are temporarily overpopulated, but at some point you need 2.1 kids per woman.

So the question is (not) simply: How are we gonna get this done? It is premature to lay the birthrate issue at the feet of gender relations, but they may be a factor. On a deeper level, what most societies are butting up against is that the genderless, liberal enlightenment regime for gender dynamics may not actually produce a fair, functional and stable gender balance.

Plus-Sprinkles7852 · 2024-03-25T01:19:31+00:00

its dumb and unproductive

Ayaka_Simp_ · 2024-03-25T02:57:56+00:00

I welcome and support it.

raldabos · 2024-03-25T03:13:23+00:00

Last time I check some women enjoy sex with men, dating and having kids.

So, no I don't think this will affect society. We already have nuns and things like that, so nothing new.

caption291 · 2024-03-25T04:15:20+00:00

In my opinion, there are 3 reasonably plausible outcomes IF women actually go trough with it and don't "forget" about it for Chad or because they got bored.

It becomes more of a patriarchy because women clearly aren't reasonable enough to be allowed power if they threaten to kill their country when they don't get their way.
Women get what they want, realise they don't like it and go back.
Men give up trying to meet women's expectations and Korean society collapses.

stormiu · 2024-03-25T04:22:08+00:00

4B exists to combat a problem that doesn’t really exist in America.

his_purple_majesty · 2024-03-25T04:23:43+00:00

I don't care and it'll never catch on to any meaningful degree.

GoodCauliflower4569 · 2024-03-25T05:44:06+00:00

Lol these females will die out just as mgtow dudes die out and people that breed will breed.

2024-03-25T13:59:25+00:00

Tbh I just don’t care. If women in my life swore off dating I’d be happy for them. If they wanted to keep dating I’d be happy for them.

The dating pool is super grim for straight girls from everything I’ve witnessed/heard in the last few years. Economy sucks and Conservatives are coming for things like birth control access. I get it tbh

soviet_enjoyer · 2024-03-25T23:19:03+00:00

Stuff like that is part of the reason South Korea WILL lose to the DPRK in the long run. Those ideologies are cancerous for society.

ScottishRose81 · 2024-04-04T13:27:20+00:00

I think it’s in response to the red pill cult sweeping through men like cancer and it’s the straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back. For example, I was a submissive dutiful little Christian wife…til my husband got redpill’d and became abusive…I left and now I want nothing whatsoever to do with men. Raped at 10, watched my mother go through hell to recover from my dad’s multiple cheating episodes and then my husband who it transpires is and always has been abusive and I was just too naive to see it. So I can sympathise with these 4B women. I too am done with men, I want nothing to do with them. All literally all they’ve brought me is trauma and despair. So screw that. There is literally nothing a man can offer me in the modern world that I can’t provide for myself. I don’t need or want a man. I make my own money and I’m now at peace. It’s quite Simple. Women have had enough of putting up with the massive amount of disrespect and betrayal and abuse we get from the majority of men that men would not tolerate from us.

Legitimate_Type_1324 · 2024-03-24T19:01:00+00:00

To each their own to be honest.

If women want to go mgtow to that's their choice.

If men want to have a partner, they'll have to play around that.

_H_a_c_k_e_r_ · 2024-03-24T22:45:10+00:00

I think its really good thing. It will accelerate downfall of progressiveness and only with traditional values will survive.

Solondthewookiee · 2024-03-24T17:57:17+00:00

Even if it's not organized under a movement, it's clear women are becoming much more comfortable walking away from dating than men, and the men being left behind as a result overwhelmingly seem to believe the solution is to insult and belittle these women into settling. Amazingly, this has not had the intended effect.

krmaml · 2024-03-24T19:01:49+00:00

Women will still have sex with and have casual flings with hot men.

The idea is simple: There are fewer men women are physically attracted to, the rest are not needed in women's personal lives. Women want a society where they can function without men's involvement while they can collectively fuck the top 10% or so.

waffleznstuff30 · 2024-03-24T18:42:41+00:00

I agree with it.

American men demand the most from women without offering much. And demanding we settle for them? So I am supposed to settle for an uneducated, uncultured, selfish, chauvinistic, doesn't take care of himself and is gross and sloppy man. Yet I am supposed to be a virgin whore, a mother, a maid, not too smart because I have to protect his male ego but smart, hot but not too hot because then he will get insecure. Give him maximum effort for minimum effort because he's a guy he doesn't do all that. No thank you.

We get our rights stripped away and it crickets. Or doubling down on red pill and podcast bro mentality. Instead of maybe looking a little inward that you may be problem. You can fix the problem. But it takes self awareness growth and maybe looking outside yourself just a little bit.

Ok-Coat7665 · 2024-03-24T18:24:28+00:00

This doesn’t sound good at all. Practicing discernment in partner choice is better than completely abstaining from relationships, intimacy, and family building.

wtknight · 2024-03-24T19:02:33+00:00

I'm guessing that young men probably feel the same way about this that women feel about passport bros - that the women who choose to participate in this aren't really feasible long-term relationship partners in the first place.

2024-03-24T18:00:58+00:00

I don’t see the point in women targeting good men in their lives because of the power hungry ones in government. Better to vote. Here in the U.S. we have the fortunate ability of being able to travel between states and being able to pick a state with laws that we like best, so that’s an option too.

SwaySh0t · 2024-03-24T19:32:30+00:00

Korean man are just marrying Vietnamese women. American men will just marry other women from other cultures or countries. The feminist will die out. Everyone wins. Problem solved.

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TRTGymBro · 2024-03-24T19:26:35+00:00

I mean it's not like Asians are getting laid and having kids anyway.

the_myth_of_syphilis · 2024-03-24T19:41:56+00:00

This was already a thing with some feminists in North America in the 60s, so it's definitely not a new idea. I don't really think it's a big deal, as lots of people choose to stay single for many different reasons. Nobody bats an eye when a person abstains from sex or marriage for religious reasons, why should a person abstaining from sex for other reasons be any more of a concern?

Proudvow · 2024-03-24T19:49:08+00:00

Cool.

Also I'd sure hope South Korea is patriarchal, men should get SOMETHING out of literal mandatory military service.

avgprius · 2024-03-24T20:07:00+00:00

Other than no sex ill live

_here_ok · 2024-03-24T20:08:45+00:00

people are liable to their own choices. it's a matter of if they can accept the outcomes and it is true to themselves. if the women are okay with this then they can go ahead. if it affects men then the real question would be why these men are chasing them? there's no point in such.

i also question how this is anti patriarchy? it seems more like indifference. to be anti patriarchy would be to change the system but this doesn't really change it but is more of a way out. these philosophies of no breeding, no dating and etc just serve as freedom of the individual which is valid but to claim it as against a system feels like false information.

the system moves on because it's designed to move on past folks like that. it rewards the people who do date and make children. those who don't are left in the gutter and forgotten usually.

CasseroleTruck · 2024-03-24T20:11:02+00:00

Same as how most women react toward MGTOW. Fine go do your thing, just don't feel the need to remind us every 5 minutes that you quit and aren't playing anymore it's annoying and nobody gives a shit.

dailydose20 · 2024-03-24T20:41:38+00:00

I think its extremely niche and won't gain much traction at all

NotARussianBot1984 · 2024-03-24T21:59:27+00:00

I'm a big supporter of it. I think women should do what they think is best for themselves. Who needs a future generation?

tiger_ttt · 2024-03-24T22:46:41+00:00

Never heard of it and likely no one ever will in the US or abroad. This is as dumb as the sex strike thing.

"Hey I'm not having sex but guess what, I'm certainly not having sex now as a show of anger towards men". Yeah ok lol.

Pristine_Paper_9095 · 2024-03-24T22:49:07+00:00

I couldn’t care less. Let them. They won’t be able to follow their own rules and the movement will quickly crumble because only a fraction of feminists will take it seriously, while the majority says they will but in secret still date and sleep with men.

truth-informant · 2024-03-24T22:58:51+00:00

Loving it. Everyone else are haters or grifters.

Digital-Bionics · 2024-03-24T23:15:08+00:00

I wouldn't over think it, nature will select out people who don't have involvement with their opposite gender. The only danger is the unscrupulous attempting to contaminate innocent minds,

Imaginary-Being8395 · 2024-03-24T23:16:32+00:00

I never saw something like that outside of the internet. I mean, great for them i guess. Its not like it will change my life in any way

MassiveAd1026 · 2024-03-24T23:32:19+00:00

2 out of those 4 i agree feminist and women in general could avoid. The other 2 "sex with men" and child rearing. There's no escaping that for most women, because its already too late. the link below explains further. From 0:14 - 0:43

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYFkeRFQ6GM&pp=ygUVYXZlcmFnZSBtYW4gdW5wbHVnZ2Vk

jay10033 · 2024-03-25T00:48:06+00:00

Good for them. They should have fun with it both in Korea and the US.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-03-25T01:17:46+00:00

Bring it over, maybe it will be as successful as Dawoo.

ttehrman519 · 2024-03-25T01:25:21+00:00

I think it’s just a fad that people are gonna talk about and support/bash on social media, and then after some amount of time something else will happen and we’ll barely hear about it again

Willow-girl · 2024-03-25T02:32:42+00:00

I'm batting .250, I guess!

Nihi1986 · 2024-03-25T04:26:56+00:00

My opinion is that like mgtow it isn't going anywhere... You don't give up on those things as a movement, you get them (if you can) or you don't because you can't or you have different priorities. That's not really a movement, a movement should be fighting for something, should be trying to change something. What you are describing doesn't make sense in any feminist country.

8th_House_Stellium · 2024-03-25T13:17:13+00:00

I'm a gay guy, but from a policy perspective, policies that promote population stability are best for maintaining infrastucture, civil stability, and social programs. Countries should try to get birthrates as close as possible to an average of 2.1 births per birthing person, without going under 2.1. That should make a population that neither grows nor shrinks.

As a gay guy, that means its going to be up to other people to maintain population stability. Movements like 4B could create a population crash that hurts everybody.

EdwardTheeMasterful · 2024-03-25T15:11:48+00:00

Where is the B coming from? Would it not be 4N? To sound more like an apartment unit.

coping_man · 2024-03-25T15:32:24+00:00

that they're combating the boogeyman and the patriarchal state only exists in their imagination

SK is a feminist country where id get drafted and they wouldnt but good on them i have the exact same chance of getting laid no matter what movement they want to follow

BlueParsec · 2024-03-25T17:24:52+00:00

Sounds like a psy op to take away women's social decision making rights at least and make rape legal at worst.

I love how naiive they are to think it's going to combat "pro-natalist" policies lmfao when it's just going to expedite the urgency of the situation and government will take drastic action.

ChadderUppercut · 2024-03-25T19:54:24+00:00

Sounds more like paralysis than movement.

cast-away-ramadi06 · 2024-03-25T21:05:21+00:00

renounce four major activities, which include the following:

sex with men, child-rearing, dating men and marriage with men

If a penis-having partner uses they/them pronouns, are they off limits? How does this impact trans partners of cis women? So, is this like a cis- llesbian movement or something?

This is so confusing.

kochIndustriesRussia · 2024-03-26T10:54:09+00:00

It will never take root here... even if some fringers promote it. Women here want the dream: big houses...big suvs..2 or 3 kids...crazy kids activities schedule...and a beaten dog of a man paying the bills.

Korea is very different. No suburban McMansions....no giant suvs... no bragging rights for being house poor and exhausted from your family life...etc.

Expensive-Meat13 · 2024-03-27T02:11:48+00:00

So many men coping in this thread

Infinite-Relative928 · 2024-03-31T15:04:37+00:00

Politically correct female incels

I can imagine the number of politically correct misandrist insults there would have been here if it was a male movement.

HappyVer · 2024-04-03T11:18:05+00:00

I asked a Korean person living in Seoul, South Korea about this and even showed him an article about it. He said he's never heard of it. Perhaps the movement itself is not as popular as some might think.

Relevant-Raise1582 · 2024-04-05T16:16:18+00:00

I get that some women are hurting and have been hurt by men. For those women, the 4B movement is a useful point of solidarity. But for those women who are currently in good relationships with men, why would they leave their men for the sake of this movement? Why would I encourage any woman to sabotage an otherwise good relationship?

I certainly would not encourage my daughters to join this movement when they get older. Why would I wish to deprive them unnecessarily of a good relationship? It's not about me enforcing the patriarchy, it's simply about wanting my children to be happy.

The crux of the 4B movement in the U.S. is this broad generalization that all men are the same by women who have been consistently hurt by men. Assuming that the 4B movement gains some kind of useful traction in the future, it seems to me that these while these particular women may benefit from swearing off relationships, there are still plenty of women who will definitely benefit from relationships with men. Do the 4B women wish to harm those women who have happy relationships?

Visual-Knowledge1239 · 2024-04-07T09:32:04+00:00

Women are done with men. We gave you guys decades of opportunities to evolve and become better partners. We told you to read self-help books. We told you to get therapy. We told you to stop abusing us. Hell, some of us even had to call the cops on you guys. 4B is not about making better dating practices. The days of women reading articles to get you guys to treat us like human beings are gone. We are simply walking away from you men because you guys cause too much pain. Do what you want with that information. We don't care. Live in a sandbox for the rest of your lives. Women don't care what you men do anymore. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

shutupmadison · 2024-04-08T03:31:17+00:00

i’m not sure why the idea of not dating men that fucking hate you needs some sort of name

MisterFunnyShoes · 2024-03-24T18:25:34+00:00

Who cares?

baiser_vole · 2024-03-24T18:12:14+00:00

LOL Western women are insane for comparing their situation to South Korea's (if they are that is). That's my opinion.

oooo020201lfl · 2024-03-24T18:28:13+00:00

How on earth is South Korea a patriarchal state? They have mandatory military service for men, while women get to go to college

ladyindev · 2024-03-24T21:09:18+00:00

Good for those women. There's a lot to substantiate this choice. We have had similar movements here in the USA in the past as well. I think it'll provide a framework that works for many women. I have friends who are already doing many of these things if not all of them in some cases. I have friends so scarred by relationships and ideas of desirability and the consequences of being involved with men that they decided to stop dating and being open to pursuing relationships all together. A friend of mine has felt that way since we were 28-30 or so. (34 now) She has a kid and pours her love there. The father refused to take a paternity test and never helped her. I think that helped for the extra nail in the coffin with men. Other friends don't have kids but believe there are no good men suitable for them and/or that pursuing relationships isn't worth the effort most of the time because most relationships are unhealthy. (Not incorrect really)

I think the manosphere should support this. They swear that we're expired by 30 anyway and many women who make these decisions have had the flame of optimism put out by experiences in their youth. It shouldn't be a problem for the most part for some "older" women to exit the dating scene altogether.

SovereignFemmeFudge · 2024-03-24T21:43:34+00:00

I don’t think men would mind very much if women decided to start being celibate and end up alone.

What’s so retarded about this movement, is that it ends up hurting the women who take it up, rather than bringing down a tyrannical patriarchy that does not exist. Most Women do not want to end up alone at 50 with a cat. But, there will certainly be a large number of women who embrace this bullshit because they are consumed with anger towards men. Only to find themselves totally lonely at age 50, completely unable to find a partner, filled with regret for buying into someone else’s bullshit that actually ended up affecting themselves negatively.

There’s about 10,000 videos online right now of women in their 40s and 50s crying on camera, admitting to buying into feminist bullshit, only to find themselves alone and miserable, filled with regret for not considering that this would happen if they continued to take their male partners for granted.

So, please ladies: become a member of the ‘4B’ gang, so we can all watch with a bucket of popcorn.

Same_Comfortable_821 · 2024-03-24T21:20:14+00:00

Nice in theory but the government will just make things worse for everyone because most men hold no power in the USA. We need to focus on income disparity and wealth gap between rich and poor.

NockerJoe · 2024-03-24T18:51:07+00:00

Its a perfect underlining of how western feminism has lost perspective. Yeah, the 4b movement makes way more sense in a more socially conservative smaller country where casual sex is much less prevalent and the government is much more direct about wanting you to pump out babies. Its like asking for the Lying Flat movement to catch on in the west when the average person probably isn't willing to give up seasoning their food and sex for better working conditions.

4B is an online thing that I don't think has even passed 5 digits of women doing it in Korea. Asking a woman to never have any kind of contact with men again in the west because some dickhead on the internet said some stupid shit probably won't work.

Fearless_Finding_923 · 2024-03-24T18:56:56+00:00

It’s not coming to America. The only women who’d adapt a mentality like this are women that men don’t want anyways, like MGTOW

daga2222 · 2024-03-24T20:33:57+00:00

It’s great. I’m all for it. I’ll never have to deal with them.

These women will go extinct and their bloodline will end with them.

SlowEffective8146 · 2024-03-24T20:35:28+00:00

Never heard of it and don't care

If it's anything like Korea's version of "feminism" we can just expect a further decrease in birth rates and possible human extinction. Good job women you defeated the human race.

luroot · 2024-03-25T05:12:10+00:00

Lol, except women here want sex, dating, and marriage.

Although I wish they would adopt the marriage boycott!

Select_Self_6377 · 2024-03-24T18:25:07+00:00

I'm honestly surprised it hasn't caught on as much here already. In a way it has, just not in an organized way.

It's a sad, depressing reality but the fact of the matter is, a lot of women are generally better off not in relationships with men. The majority of men are not attractive and women can find fulfilling lives outside of relationships as studies have shown. Studies also show that men are far better of in a relationship, which is part of what makes this all so unfortunate. Furthermore, other studies suggest most women are naturally bisexual. Therefore, with the existence of other single women as well as the 20-30% of men deemed "worthwhile" there is very little reason for a movement like you describe to not take hold in a free society. Not that it has to be intentional or organized, but rather simply a de-facto result of women acting in their best interests.

Tywinlol · 2024-03-24T18:27:05+00:00

While generally speaking I view feminism very negatively, I refer to it as gender fascism, on this particular subject Im in full agreement with feminists. So please ladies live up to your standards and believes, don't marry and don't have children especially. I know that it will not lead to the outcome you desire, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Seriously, this is the second time today on PPD I read about females bargaining about self-destructive behavior and then thinking that they hurt men with it. Truly ladies your stupidity knows no bounds. So, please dear trash take yourself out.

AncientResolution411 · 2024-03-24T18:28:54+00:00

Yes, and here we see the beginning of male denial and lack of ability to take what women are saying seriously.

DumbWordsmith · 2024-03-24T18:18:32+00:00

I don't really have one. There are a lot of broken families and single moms here, so this would be preferable to me.

Aside from that, it wouldn't impact my life. People can do as they please.

So far, there's no indication of that happening, though, as less than 1/5th of American women aged 30-49 are not in a committed relationship.

I do think that more people of both sexes have lost interest in marriage — and this trend will likely continue for the foreseeable future IMO.

TheLonerCoder · 2024-03-24T18:33:15+00:00

Just another reactionary take that only applies to the extremist minority. Thankfully, most people are sane. Most people don't have drastic relationship nor dating issues as the internet makes it out to be lol. Especially not to the point where they would denounce an entire gender. That just seems odd, whether it's this movement or "MGTOW".

BoomTheBear86 · 2024-03-24T18:37:20+00:00

I don’t see it making a massive difference.

The women who aren’t already in this mindset are unlikely to be convinced to change their minds because some other women tell them to change their ways. They’d have to at least see eye to see on the philosophical point being made and the fact is many women see having children as something they want to do. Same for marriage.

So I think really only those already convinced by this idea will pick it up, but that means it will have little effect.

SK is different because the society is inherently more stacked against women in an obvious way so it’s not terribly difficult to convince a woman that she is “giving herself up” to do these things because chances are a lot of people in her life are telling her she should do these things or she’s a social disappointment. In the west I just don’t think the social pressure is there on a large enough scale that you’re gonna be able to convince women who are looking to get married or have kids that’s it’s “some kind of controlling ploy” because at the end of the day this is the west we are talking about where women increasingly have social and sexual freedom on a societal scale.

It would basically require a massive cognitive shift in the women in the west where they spontaneously start believing that the stuff they’re choosing to do (and claim they’re able to do) somehow becomes something they don’t choose to do.

We also need to consider the “deal” women get for coupling up in the west versus SK. As far as my understanding goes it isn’t quite the same. Certainly in the initial stages where a woman can enjoy a lot of positive attention and endearment from men. SK doesn’t really have a romanticised view of relationships traditionally, very much “be wife” and if he loves you it’s a bonus I guess? The west has a very different view on relationships altogether so the mechanics are very different. For example you have stuff like matchmakers employed on a much larger scale in SK than in the west and parental involvement in relationships is large. This isn’t the case in the west in general terms.

So yeah it’s a case of comparing a situation where women in one society have their parents trying to offload them into a man irrespective of whether she likes him or not and having parental opinions guide a lot of the relationship and what happens versus a society where women actively choose their partners and basically have their prospective partners competing to get their attention without parent involvement. You can’t really say the same amount of “control of women” is involved.

Lastly, you need to consider the optics. 4B is mainly a thing in SK because the idea of women resisting these things is taboo and very much against the social grain, which makes it a tangible thing to ralley behind. In the west, a woman saying “i don’t want to have kids or be in a relationship” doesn’t really attract the same attention or shock outside of fringier religious communities. Certainly in my context (UK) nobody is really going to give much of a crap if a woman in 25-35 declares “I don’t plan to have kids or couple up”. It’s like cool, if that’s what you want.

So in this respect the optics are very different. One is a tangible form of social protest the other is just a statement of a preference which exists in a society of choices.

Silver_Past2313 · 2024-03-24T19:35:28+00:00

Stuff like this is literally anti human and should be treated as such

nonplussedminus · 2024-03-24T19:56:22+00:00

Oh no, grouchy mean entitled women will refuse to date me! The horror

Fragmented79 · 2024-03-24T21:33:26+00:00

As if men and women weren’t divided enough in the US…🤦‍♂️

dailydose20 · 2024-03-24T21:56:57+00:00

Hopefully it gains in popularity and all the crazy ladies will be off the market and regular good women will become the norm

DzejSiDi · 2024-03-24T22:27:39+00:00

Ha ha. Delusional women. Women are already not doing that there, but some of them decided to make it "official" to fight non-existing patriarchy.

They will make exception for Changs, and for others it changes nothing.

liferelationshi · 2024-03-25T16:54:31+00:00

Dating American women is already dead in my eyes, so anything else to the downside they want to implement doesn’t move the needle for me anyways.

Enzo-Unversed · 2024-03-26T03:03:41+00:00

Korean women are far more attractive and intelligent than American women. Also good luck getting women in the US to drop sex.

apresonly · 2024-03-26T15:20:06+00:00

> The sudden push is due to one man telling women “some of you women are gonna have to settle”

do you have a source that this is the origin of american women wanting to be 4b?

that seems insane, no offense

wispyhurr · 2024-03-24T18:23:36+00:00

Men will just have to do better. They really are competing with women's peace and security

OffTheRedSand · 2024-03-24T18:24:54+00:00

Korea is much more toxic and sexist and misogynistic than the US. This is why the 4b movement started. i don't think stuff are as bad here to the point women need to stop being a part of society. and i don't think men in the west are as bad as korean men. in korea men arejust drunk overworked boys who aim to please mom and dad and women are sick of it. in the us men and women are the same and free to do whatever they want. even social change is much easier to happen in the west and it's very chill compared to korea where even the tiniest bit of change is an attack on traditions. this is why the movement had to be extreme. it doesn't have to get that extreme here.

Dr_Click_Click_Boom · 2024-03-24T20:17:44+00:00

I'm mgtow. Women often accuse me of making empty threats of going my own way while still staying around and complaining. While this may be true of many men who self identify as mgtow it doesn't apply to me. I comment on PPD but otherwise mind my own business.

But this isn't about me. I just wanted to set the stage.

If women aren't going to do these four things they just need to stfu and not do these four things. No need to constantly make threats. Just go your own way. That's the advice I'm given so that's the advice I'll give. Just go. And don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you.

Bye.

Year	Birth Rate	Growth Rate
2024	.6743	-0.380%
2023	.6769	-1.930%
2022	.6902	-1.900%
2021	.7036	-1.860%
2020	.7169	-1.830%
2019	.7303	-1.790% (this is when the 4B movement started - birth rate decline slowed, not increased compared to previous years)
2018	.7436	-3.900%
2017	.7738	-3.760%
2016	.8040	-3.620%
2015	.8342	-3.490%
2014	.8644	-3.380%

Title	What’s your opinion on the 4B movement coming to America?
Author	Direct-Alternative70
Upvotes	81
Comments	487
Date	March 24, 2024 5:45 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1bmqlx4/whats_your_opinion_on_the_4b_movement_coming_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/whats-your-opinion-on-the-4b-movement-coming-to.1513098 https://theredarchive.com/post/1513098

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