Do TRULY average men actually struggle to date and have sex?

OkLingonberryx · 2023-09-01T20:41:20+00:00

I work in a heavily male-dominated industry (construction and civil engineering). I know 50 to 70 guys. Every single one of them has a gf/wife. Fat guys, short guys, bald guys, poor guys, hot guys, tall guys, skinny guys, jacked guys.

I only know one guy who struggles a lot. He works as a software engineer.

neinhaltchad · 2023-09-01T22:25:23+00:00

The functional difference between

have a girlfriend that begrudgingly settled for you and you are facing the likelihood of a months or even years long dry spell should you break up

and

have a girlfriend that you actively chose after a series of flings and casual relationships and can comfortably walk away from in the knowledge that she can be easily replaced or at least that you won’t go months or years without sex

Is immense.

TheSongsInYourHead · 2023-09-01T20:52:17+00:00

Define "struggle". All the numbers say the same thing, more men are single, single men are more interested in relationships than single women, women date a little older, men date a little younger.

There's no way to avoid it, some young men are going to struggle. There's significantly more demand for women than for men. Some of the men have to get left out, there just aren't enough women to go around.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-09-01T20:04:40+00:00

Average dude is doing average: which lifetime is 4-7 partners. Do average dudes wish they could have more sex? Yup. But so do above average dudes, below average dudes, way way below average dudes. Etc

It’s like if you asked a rich guy “I see you have money but would you like to have some more money?” They’d probably say yes.

webernicke · 2023-09-01T20:58:17+00:00

I don't think Average guys are really "dating" as much as they might get lucky a few times and then settle in for the long haul as soon as they manage to get a woman to stick around for a while, with the chance of this increasing as women around him age up and watch their options start to disappear.

When the average guy is actively trying to date though, I think he's going to struggle a lot in the current market.

MrQuiteLimited9 · 2023-09-01T23:19:00+00:00

Depends how old these average dudes are and how old the women they are targeting are. Average looking 24 year old dude looking for a girl around his age? He’s screwed. Average looking 32 year old dude looking for a girl around his age? He’s got a chance

PercentageGullible11 · 2023-09-01T22:39:59+00:00

The average dude changes as he ages, both in terms of preferences and success. When young, average men will accept average women, but those women want nothing to do with the men. Average men under the age of 30 get no attention, sex, or mercy from young women, average or otherwise.

When those average men age, the women who previously rejected them find out Chad will never commit and that they need money. But men often raise their standards after they turn 30: Knowing love is a con and that women don’t want them, they adopt a ‘sex for cash’ mindset. But if you only want women for sex, why accept an average 30+ year old woman (who you know will only resent you for not being Chad)?

onion_rings_addict · 2023-09-01T20:22:27+00:00

My friends and family are all pretty average, some overweight, some are short, they have average wifes or girlfriends.

Here you'll find people saying that such thing doesn't exist...

average people do average things

PMmeareasontolive · 2023-09-01T21:29:11+00:00

Average guy can date but it will tend to be fewer, and far between long periods of involuntary singleness, and the pool of potential mates that he is exposed to seems to have shrunk. Meaning it's harder for them to find someone who's exceptionally compatible with them, even when it might be possible to find someone who's sort of, maybe, compatible in some ways.

Lower-Recognition420 · 2023-09-01T20:46:27+00:00

When I say average, I mean 5"8-5"11ish height range, typical job making 50/60k a year or so, neither handsome nor offensive in looks, and no severe mental illness/neurodivergence.

Damn, I fail in all of these. I didn't know I was THAT below average. So brutal.

princedune · 2023-09-02T02:38:50+00:00

The average young guy (post dating apps) is single.

bluestjuice · 2023-09-01T20:06:55+00:00

These are the guys I work with. I have no idea what their sex life entails (happily!) but most of them are partnered up so the evidence suggests they are able to find some dating success.

SuitableStart · 2023-09-02T02:10:55+00:00

You just stated 4 domains in which one has to be above average to be considered average. That makes the requirement closer to like top 20%.

LoverBaite · 2023-09-02T08:13:40+00:00

The combination of those are not average my dude

Hackars · 2023-09-01T22:47:05+00:00

Average men are doing shit. The statistics on sexlessness and the plummeting birth rate don't lie. Japan is 10 years ahead of the West right now so look to the for the future of Western society.

NotUsedUsernameYet · 2023-09-01T20:35:13+00:00

They will be settled down to. Their wives will marry them and give birth to their children, while still remembering these really hot guys they had chance to date at least briefly while they were young.

wtknight · 2023-09-01T20:33:15+00:00

I'm fairly average overall and things got slowly better for me the older I got. I think that the youngest average men struggle the most and as average men get older they do better at dating. Being able to relate and communicate well to women and understand what attracts them helps quite a bit, and a lot of younger men still haven't quite figured this out. Average men do better the more experience that they get.

Expensive_Bread204 · 2023-09-02T15:46:21+00:00

The problem is the average woman may think she is above the average man due to a flood of compliments and thirsty men willing to do or say whatever she wants. I'm not blaming women here either this is pretty much entirely the men's fault.

If I got told I was a god and could do way better than average 5x a day my ego would be planetary.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2023-09-01T20:06:53+00:00

I think most of us, regardless of pill affiliation, agree that average men can get into relationships but have less hope for casual sex. The disagreements are about what is done with rhat information. Whether it's "I'm not investing more rhan the hot guy had to by dating her" or "I'd rather date a woman if i like her, regardless of whether she's had a ONS or two in the past".

gopher_glitz · 2023-09-01T22:02:12+00:00

I'm 6'3", 215lbs, very fit. Full head of hair, bought a house at 22, bachelor's degree, 100k income female friends blah blah

But I don't drink so I'm very, very behind and all that doesn't seem to be enough.

SlyStocks · 2023-09-01T23:04:55+00:00

I personally struggle tremendously and I also know plenty of other men who struggle even more.

Philip8000 · 2023-09-02T00:14:52+00:00

Yes, average men do struggle to find partners and can go for long stretches without them. However, "struggle" doesn't equal "impossible". They generally have at least 1-2 girlfriends as a teenager, even if they didn't necessarily have sex with her. I see normal people, even unattractive people, with partners every day at my job.

In terms of having abundant casual sex, most likely no, although they may encounter it at some point. But most women aren't having abundant casual sex, either. I've seen people here point to those who've slept with 50-100 guys proclaiming: "This is the typical modern woman!" It's not. Sleeping with 50-100 people for either gender... you're talking one percent of the population, if that, and both genders are likely to be hooking up with other promiscuous people.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-09-01T20:16:46+00:00

What does one mean by 'average'? Like 50th percentile rate in SMV among men? And what then is the acceptable standard for success? Able to LTR a roughly equivalent ranked SMV woman? At what age? How many years of singleness? Which age cohort and demographic?

Also, and this is the key thing, how much allowance for naturally higher female sexual selectivity? If a 50th percentile man can only get 45th percentile women and below, that seems fair. Women have higher reproductive costs, so women should be more selective. But what if a 50th percentile man can only get 25th ranked women and below? Is that fair? Is that functional?

And then there is the issue of whether modern men (or women even) that are 'average' now are actually average in absolute terms by historical standards.

ComfortableOk5003 · 2023-09-01T22:22:54+00:00

You say average then say 5’11 and 50/60K which are above average LOL

Tell me you’re out of touch.

Yes average men struggle, I can’t believe you can ask this with the abundance of evidence everywhere lol mostly at the finding someone stage.

Some of it is their own fault though, like not approaching women, not being hermits, etc

Also important would be to say what age group is this hypothetical dude in

MysterySolverDog · 2023-09-01T22:53:55+00:00

The data says yes:

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/

Be wary of selection bias if you are going by your own observations.

ParticularCamera2297 · 2023-09-02T04:30:22+00:00

Yes, I’m likely above average, but no Chad. I’ve had girlfriends before and around 5 ONS. I meet all the 6666 and significantly so, except height I’m just under 5’11, but I’m jacked and legit 10-12% body fat, full head of hair. I get mad interest from ugly/fat women and gay dudes at the bars. To a point where it got annoying sometimes. But dating is a struggle with women I like. I’ve had women come up to me call me handsome and give me their numbers, but either I’m not interested, or some not many I’d be interested, but they would just use me for dates and attention. Lowest point of my life is when I got so attached to a woman, who I would rate to be around 3-4, from OLD, she strung me along, controlled me, humiliated me, cucked me, I then ghosted, but then I started constantly texting her after 3 months when locked downs came around, I was high and lock downs drove me crazy, and she shit on me like no tomorrow, and then told to deleted her fucking number. Since then I deleted all my OLD accounts, stopped asking women out, and I just stay at home, work and focus on my hobbies. It’s been a couple years, but I’ve not recovered from the humiliation and embarrassment. Still haunts me to this day. Maybe I’m being dramatic, but the juice isn’t worth the squeeze to me at this point.

Intrepid_Ad3062 · 2023-09-02T15:15:04+00:00

That first paragraph would literally be a dream come true at this point. Seriously.

Crafty_Letter_1719 · 2023-09-01T22:15:52+00:00

You’ve answered your own question with “it’s how the world keeps going round”. There are 8 billion people on the planet. By definition most of those people are “average” within the context of whatever society they belong. That’s a hell of a lot of “average” people having sex and relationships and families. The people that truly struggle to find relationships are either particularly anti-social or simply have unrealistic standards. Although it’s something the vast majority of people are: being “average” is not something most people think about themselves. Most people usually rate themselves smarter, more attractive, more capable than they actually are. Sometimes to the point of complete delusional but almost always at least to a slight degree. It’s little wonder than that so many people think they “deserve” a certain type of partner when they don’t meet the same( or equivocal) standards themselves.

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-09-01T20:31:49+00:00

Guys I know IRL who are considered extremely attractive by me, their friends, and other women. I showed their photos to guys on here and people tell me they are just average. So I'm confused about what average actually is, because if these guys are average, then some average guys are very successful with dating and sex, and others get a lot less.

baiser_vole · 2023-09-01T20:53:46+00:00

I thought 5'11" was not average height.

the_jingster · 2023-09-01T21:02:36+00:00

Pretty trivial question. There are women who will date and have sex with any guy, and mens' standards can adjust according to what they can get. Better question would be "what quality of woman is the average guy able to have sex with?"

Christian_Kong · 2023-09-01T23:11:25+00:00

As a former bartender that casually knew many average guys I feel this is true.

lolmastr13 · 2023-09-02T00:02:37+00:00

Age is a big factor in thus

dJ_86 · 2023-09-02T00:24:38+00:00

I make $80k per year, 6’. I don’t have a problem attracting below average women. But do I want them? No, I want an average to above average woman.

gordovondoom · 2023-09-02T00:25:37+00:00

all the average dudes i know dont score at all, most gave it up and do escorts (they might be above average incoke to afford that)…

Green-Quantity1032 · 2023-09-02T01:12:02+00:00

If you mean have sex with 1-3 lifetime partners, ending up with someone who wanted others but saw you as the stable available option and (hopefully) learned to love you - yeah, no struggle there.

Anything extra and it's a struggle for the average guy - random hookups with pretty girls, being sought after with lust, settling down when you're really ready and not by default, and to a woman who knows you CHOSE her out of many options, and not just settled as well - yeah, good luck.

Most people have really good expectations - they don't expect girls to fall into their arms, so they're ok with the average scenario.

The average guys I saw during my life have no good options, and are either settling down or get stuck in bad dates with weird and unattractive women.

Thing is - when you're in a big city, earning a lot and going to the gym - you're automatically seeing people who are above average - so it becomes hard to imagine what true average really is/feels like.

Angus_Ripper · 2023-09-02T05:08:19+00:00

They basically get nothing until women hit 30s and the latter starts lowering their standards to just "safe & reliable" average guys.

No_Ask_2241 · 2023-09-02T07:42:01+00:00

The younger you are the worse it is, so average below 30 guys are for sure struggling. 30 above are doing alright

Asleep_Cry_7482 · 2023-09-02T11:16:07+00:00

I think it gets easier with age. Young men tend to overthink about their interactions with women, probably live with parents/roommates, create so much drama about who gets with who in their social circle, have a bit more of a “lad culture” about women and just give far too many shits in general. As men get progressively older they care less and do their own thing which makes them way more attractive to women. Older women too care less, the contrast of women at 18 vs 30 is night and day and they’re generally far more open, mature and realistic about sex and dates as they get older. However from an 18 year old man’s perspective they simply don’t see this and are frustrated because they can’t get laid and think they’ll never get laid

Electronic_West_1831 · 2023-09-02T14:39:51+00:00

liferelationshi · 2023-09-02T17:47:28+00:00

5’11” male height is average to you 😂

Check out this website:

https://igotstandardsbro.com/results?minAge=21&maxAge=35&excludeMarried=true&race=0&minHeight=172.72&excludeObese=true&minIncome=50000

6.4% chance to find a guy with your minimum criteria between the ages of 21-35.

ta06012022 · 2023-09-01T20:36:46+00:00

Do TRULY average men actually struggle to date and have sex?

Do most? No. But some certainly do.

The average men who I've seen struggle more are the ones who refuse to settle for average women. One of the guys from my frat was completely that way. He would only go after the absolute hottest girls who he was convinced were in his league. He was a pretty outgoing sociable guy, so he would get attention from average looking girls, but he was never interested in them.

iGetBuckets3 · 2023-09-01T20:29:54+00:00

It depends where you live. If you live in a small town in the midwest then probably not. If you live in LA then yeah you’re definitely gonna struggle.

MxMaster9907 · 2023-09-01T20:34:41+00:00

I think a lot of them struggle when they are very young.

People keep marrying at older ages, in the usa the average marrying age for women is 27 and for men is 29. Most young adults below the age of 25 aren’t really looking to settle and marry.

And when it comes to sex in young people, women will typically go with the more attractive young men, or wealthier older men. The average 21 year old is very unimpressive. 5’9, overweight, 50-50 chance of having a college degree, low paying job.

I think it definitely gets better after 25.

social_mules_alt · 2023-09-01T22:20:59+00:00

How many times are we going to ask this question?

JadedButWicked · 2023-09-01T20:45:46+00:00

They struggle to date average woman. Most men date down which is why people say "most average guys I see are in relationships". Yea with women they are smarter, older, make more money, and/or are in better shape than.

SynappyPappy · 2023-09-01T20:09:25+00:00

These kind of guys are often going to be reliant on luck and circumstance. They'll more likely spend time cultivating relationships through social circles and going for LTR's over casual dating. They may focus on niches or hobbies to help their odds.

Without any kind of social boost or inside track they will struggle, i.e. if they move to a new city and are trying to meet women through dating apps.

MateriallyDetatched · 2023-09-01T22:02:21+00:00

It's the Low-Hanging Fruit Hypothesis.

Average people are "easy" without being offensively disgusting so they ironically have the most options. Very attractive people in general seem less confident and shy on average and I talk to pretty much every type of person imaginable. I think the most beautiful women are usually the most shy.

purplish_possum · 2023-09-01T23:09:54+00:00

Yes. Truly average men are considered ugly by most women.

Aditya-Kalita · 2023-09-02T04:58:42+00:00

Most people are average and date, marry, have sex with, and settle down with other average people lol.

Actually not true. Very average girls (not looks) get dating and conversation experience from a young age which makes them better over time.

Cannot be said the same about average guys. Even if they are smart or have the potential to grow. The prime reason for that is lack of experience in dating circles.

Lets take 100 guys and 100 girls in college. The same 20 guys from college are dating most of the girls 60-80 of them. The reason is girls don't really mind being just a phase for guys. They date and move on. It's just good company for them during those years.

Meanwhile the guys treat this time as an experimental phase and they learn the art of manipulation and how to not get manipulated, the social cues etc. These 20 guys get valuable experience and take full advantage of that. Cannot blame them. But when you see their partners 10 years down the line you wouldn't say they are the prettiest face or body or the brightest mind or something. Some are pretty, some arent. But they usually find the gems. Good for them. They played the game according to the circumstances and made the best out of it. They find a partner that

The girls also get valuable experience in dating guys. The really pretty ones get less exposure. But most of that exposure is to guys that are confident (again because of their experience). These girls do well in life because they get to filter out toxic guys later in life.

Then there are good looking ones who get the highest volume of attention. Every joe wants to hit on her and it's overwhelming. I get it. Its tough. Spoiled for choices. It's bound to happen that she'll miss some good ones out there. But the most research that exists for guys "to take her out", "how to approach", "how to keep her", "how to get her" etc exists today on the internet (and previously in books) is for this category of girls. Most guys will find them pretty enough to get attracted. And not intimidating enough to approach easily. But this creates an issue for lot of girls. The ego creeps in. Its natural. Its understandable too. If every girl in town wants to take me out, I'd be gloating. Can't blame her.

But what happens is when some guys from the 20 (the 9/10 guys) date them, they sense the egoistical side here and there (because of their experience). Maybe not on the first few dates but soon after. But many a times in these scenarios they keep going out and sex is whats keeping them together until something kicks eventually.

Then they meet guys like us (or the 7/10 to 8/10 guys) But since they already dated a few guys with lot of experience, the expectations for us to perform the usual dating rituals is very high. But because of the disparity between the guys experience between the 7/10 guys and 9/10 guys, ITS UNFAIR. let me say it again ITS UNFAIR.

simply because of maths.

a guy who looks 7. Even if he has a decent personality gets one date in two months or so at max when he tries. If you just go one step above to 8 that guy gets easily a date every week. The disparity is crazy. Because 6/10 girls won't date 7/10 guy. And its NOT BECAUSE OF PERSONALITY, RIZZ, etc. Simply because they don't find them attractive enough to even have a conversation.

Now lets come to 5 and 6 guys. They don't even have expectations. They do everything and get nothing.

Below 5 don't even bother.

Now some smarty pants will point out that aren't their below 7/10 guys getting married today?

Ofcourse there are. There are scenarios where guys are getting married. But thats not the norm. It's the exception.

And the older the women get higher the expectations. So we are seeing a huge disparity in ages. Because a 30 year old has expectations from a 35 year old guy that even a 50 year old man cannot fulfil.

All these hypergamy only benefits the 8.5/10+ guys.

And to those who say PERSONALITY matters. Nobody is looking at personality these days. It's attractiveness, rizz and charm. And rizz and charm comes with experience. So guys with little experience are fucked.

If you don't wanna believe this, its upto you. You'll point out that you're the exception cool. Good for you. You'll point out many things to improve, and its not that it doesn't work.

Its just that you can get golddiggers with money. I have money but most of these girls only care about the car, the place I live. What about me?

Reality is either you're handsome and they care about you like a person. Else you need to provide like a bull in a farm field until they decide they are done with you.

Toxicity just doesn't fall out of the sky. It stems from years of regressive practices by a bunch of people to make a group of people feel sick in their stomachs. So much so that the underlying personality traits that could have stayed hidden for decades dead and buried come out like a volcano.

It's just the start. People will regret what they are doing. The future of us, the next generation will look at us like fools because we had the platform to make something good out of it. Instead we chose to make this a psychological war on a huge group of men that could have been more productive to the society with just a very slight push of motivation and love.

Write it down. You'll all regret.

Psl0131 · 2023-09-02T06:53:44+00:00

I think there are 2 things at play here:

As most people here have said, average guys tend to end up in long term relationships, showing it can’t be all that bad. But they WANT it to be easier, to have more partners, etc. So even though the end outcome is good, they still may not be satisfied with it.
Most of the times you hear an “average” guy complaining about not getting to have sex, either he’s not average by your standards above, or his personality absolutely sucks. There’s a small group of guys shouting very loudly about how awful things are, while most average guys just go and live their lives and get on with it.

DandyDoge5 · 2023-09-02T11:00:49+00:00

I think you can be average and be any height.

ReasonablePlenty5548 · 2023-09-01T20:13:01+00:00

Average young (under-25) dudes are struggling yeah

Carloverguy20 · 2023-09-01T21:15:17+00:00

Manospherians live in their own bubble where every woman wants a 6'5 tall gigachad with a 9+ size and a huge wallet.

No, I've spent time outside touching grass and i've seen overweight guys, neurodivergent guys, skinny lanky nerdy guys all have partners lol.

tinasnow-poty · 2023-09-01T22:01:52+00:00

making 50/69k a year

Surely a guy making this amount of money is around 40 years old in which case he is probably married or in a long term relationship. If you mean a guy 18-30 (which is what I think people are really talking about on this sub) then that’s an above average income for a young man, no?

Regardless, an 18-30yo man making an average income for a young man is definitely able to date. If they are average looking, then yes casual sex is an uphill battle and they don’t get as much sex as an above average looking guy. But the vast majority are getting a few dates here and there and will be able to find a partner.

lolthankstinder · 2023-09-01T22:24:38+00:00

You should also specify age range. At 18 I was in college making $0 and got zero attention from attractive women. However, as soon as I graduated I was making 85k so I never even got a chance to be an aggrieved average guy.

Aromatic_Ad5473 · 2023-09-01T23:56:06+00:00

Average men usually end up with average women. The challenge is when average men or women expect to pull above average men or women.

The fact that there are a lot of “average” men saying Margot Robbie is “mid” is interesting

RidingRedHare · 2023-09-02T00:05:29+00:00

Well, you're painting an incomplete picture of the average man there.

He also is a bit overweight, 195-215 lbs. He is financially constrained because of a combination of student loans, car payments, credit card debt and perhaps even child support payments for a child from a previous relationship. He has a misdemeanor on his criminal record. He owns two guns.

tonyghow · 2023-09-02T00:56:01+00:00

The average male “struggle” only applies to online dating.

Men that stick to IRL dating are doing ~~fine~~ average.

No-Neighborhood-5851 · 2023-09-02T00:56:39+00:00

No. People here just aren't average.

bunker_man · 2023-09-02T01:18:55+00:00

Depends what you mean by struggle. Average people don't struggle in the sense that they can't get dates and will be perpetually single. But they struggle in the sense that it may take them awhile each time they are single to find a serious partner.

WistfulPuellaMagi · 2023-09-02T01:53:40+00:00

I think neurodivergence is average. most people have a little bit of neurodivergence.

AFuzzyMuffin · 2023-09-02T04:02:27+00:00

nd men don’t struggle with nd women if they are objectively good

Impossible_Reason_84 · 2023-09-02T10:34:05+00:00

50k is well above average lol. But I guess the struggle is more of a mental thing. If more average guys workout more and take care of their health more, they'll easily gain the confidence of a "Chad" and wouldn't have any issues really. Many of us are just in a mental prison of "I must make 200K and become ripped before I talk to any woman."

demedermidimi · 2023-09-01T20:42:06+00:00

i don't know a single man that struggles tbh. he's probably living in isolation so I don't get to see it

Goyeyo565 · 2023-09-01T21:44:44+00:00

Not really. I'd say the average man has to work a lot harder for it though compared to the average woman because men are still expected to fulfill the masculine role of relationship building.

Imo the biggest flaw of RP theory is that they hyperfocus on the dating lives of a small % of people. Like yeah things like AF/BB and Chad harems do exists but it's nowhere near close to an accurate representation of what a normal person's dating life is.

artfulfarting · 2023-09-01T22:20:54+00:00

I'm above average: 6 feet tall, have millions of dollars, reasonably attractive (probably a 7 or 8, depending on who's judging). On the dating apps, I can't get a date to save my life. In real life, women approach me every day.

wonka___vision · 2023-09-01T22:22:01+00:00

Above average men have and endless supply of average and above women. The “price” for sex is minimal, or even free.

Average men mostly get below average women. There is a “price” for sex. They get the occasional average women, but she settled for him after a couple dozen above average men ran through her.

Below average men are basically invisible.

jpla86 · 2023-09-02T00:33:43+00:00

Yes they do. Women find 80% of men repulsive. I would say that number has gone up to 95%.

dawnpriestess · 2023-09-02T01:13:02+00:00

The average guy typically takes the first thing that comes their way and is willing to stick around. And they do that because yes, they struggle to have sex.

Xennial3999 · 2023-09-02T16:40:08+00:00

I'm mid late 30s, 5ft 7 165lbs fit looking, funny , caring, know how to tease without being a dick,bald, make over 6 figures. I haven't had sex with a woman under 200lbs in years unless I paid for it.

99TimesAround · 2023-09-03T10:18:41+00:00

20% of men get most of the sex with 80% of women. Pareto principle applies to the Sexual Market Place. We are talking about casual sex. Yes average people get married and they reproduce but that is not the sexual marketplace, that is the relationship market place where most men will settle for any woman that takes the

Zabadoodude · 2023-09-01T20:09:02+00:00

Average young dudes do. Once they get to mid 20's or so, most men are able to date in their league.

A lot of average people just aren't happy with the average relationships they can get. Both men and women.

TheFallenAngelWhoWas · 2023-09-01T23:07:39+00:00

Many men (if not most) take whatever opportunity presents itself, whether that's for a first date or some one-night-stand. Due to their willingness to take whatever they can get, even average guys will have decent "success" in dating/relationships/having sex, depending on how you define "success".

Safinated · 2023-09-02T01:18:59+00:00

Sure, compared to what they want dating and sex to be like

MarjaniLane · 2023-09-02T01:23:51+00:00

Lol a lot of men are ND and have sex so that’s a weird comparison.

But I feel t like average men obviously date and have sex - why else would some of y’all be here? You think only the ultra rich and handsome are procreating lol?

itiswhatitis1090 · 2023-09-02T01:37:10+00:00

Im doing just fine, thank you for asking.

SirTruffleberry · 2023-09-02T02:10:55+00:00

The "average man" doesn't exist. People's traits tend to be correlated with one another. Piecing together a bunch of averages and pretending a group embodies them is naive.

As an example, the median household income in the US is in the low 50k's. You seem to think it is much higher (as you believe the man alone would make this). Likely this is because pay is correlated with your local cost of living, which your analysis ignores.

A better metric might be to order men by the amount of action they get and find the median.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2023-09-02T02:22:22+00:00

Many average guys who are introverted, have too much screen time, don't socialize enough, lack social skills, live in remote places, or are nice guys struggle with dating.

snappy033 · 2023-09-02T03:27:49+00:00

There are plenty of below average men that have above average amounts of sex.

Below average men don’t pursue higher ed, don’t pursue demanding careers. They spend less time studying and climbing the corporate ladder and spend more time doing things that will actively get them in sexual situations like going to bars, partying, doing drugs. Sure, they can choose to stay in their parents basement but at least they have the choice to do activities compatible with getting laid. Above average men tend to be busier unless they are independently wealthy. They have more access to higher quality women but fewer opportunities to get laid statistically.

Below average men tend to have lower standards too which opens the market up significantly. A below average man will bring home the fat girl at the bar and fuck them whereas an above average man will often pass in favor of going home alone.

Highflyer47 · 2023-09-02T05:58:07+00:00

Depends on the country your in and what's considered average. I think for example even if you asked a woman and a man what they think the average guy is youd get wildly different answers. Overall I'd say the average man if they try hard enough for long enough can succeed but itll take a lot of failure to get there. Though generally youd take that failure if you knew itd get you the optinal result later but in the moment emotionally you dont know that and failure would be very frustrating. Truthfully, I think we would all be surprised in 20 years if we all came back here just how many of us did succeed. It's a struggle no doubt. Even the average woman will have her struggles too. Definitely though the concept of date and sex are not synonymous with each other so to outright answer your question. To date for average guys, yes it's a struggle and maybe it can be a bit tougher for some classes of average guys (shorter, less money etc) I'd say given enough time and effort I would think eventually you could get 1 success dating experience. For quick sex I highly doubt thatd be something average dudes are getting unless they are in killer shape or have lots of money which in that case they arent exactly average anymore are they🤣

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-09-02T15:58:07+00:00

Yes, but most people are struggling to date. Surveys have repeatedly shown that both men and women find it harder to date these days.

The belief that women across the board are dancing through meadows of the hottest men society can offer while average men are begging for scraps is just red pill bullshit.

96tillinfinity_ · 2023-09-01T23:39:41+00:00

Ive fucked around 70+ women ranging all over in looks (no elite looking women) but girls id consider to be below average to average to maybe slightly above average

Ive also had a bunch who have found me attractive although nothing sexual took place

Ive been approached a couple times in person and been told I was attractive

I still consider myself to be average (27, nigerian-american, 5’9, slightly below average salary to not rich)

Willing to send pics of me and some of the women ive been involved with to get outside feedback

vegasncmiata · 2023-09-02T01:50:50+00:00

No we don’t struggle. Because if people want to be totally honest. Most females are really not that attractive. Most women are average at best. And that’s with make up on. Take off the make up. Take off the spanks. Take off all the fake stuff they use. They’re actually below our pay grade.

DoinIt989 · 2023-09-01T21:34:14+00:00

No. Most dating struggles are either due to a disability (physical or mental), or a bad location

AutoModerator · 2023-09-01T19:58:10+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

VoltairesBarista · 2023-09-01T20:52:36+00:00

I never did but obviously some do

Significant-Race-474 · 2023-09-02T01:38:41+00:00

Whoever wrote this post is insufferable

ConsiderationLazy737 · 2023-09-02T04:56:21+00:00

I’m “average” by the standards you described. 5’10 - highly educated and decent job. 26 years old.

I have been described as fairly good looking but this perhaps to being Latin European and being in a predominantly white area, I guess I stand out just a bit to grab some people’s attention - “exotic” etc.

However, where I stand in my life and career, fit in the average demographic let’s say. So I believe it really depends on the individual.

Right after a break up, a few years ago, I was really devastated. I started putting myself out there, going on a few dates, and with some attractive women too. Some were a bit older than me too, which added a lot to my confidence.

As of last year, I’ve completely checked out of the dating game. Focusing a lot on myself and career. I realized for perhaps average men, if you’re not in the game, and not actively pursuing women, you’re not going to really date and have sex.

For average men, you won’t be approached or pursued by women. You have to be proactive and actively pursue. Although some will struggle. I think if you really try, you can find yourself with some results.

MidoriEgg · 2023-09-02T14:02:34+00:00

In my experience, they don’t, my bf’s friends are all fairly average and have a lot of success with women (mostly sleeping around tbh, I don’t think they want to settle down yet), but I don’t know if this is the same everywhere. My BF says his current friends wouldn’t be as successful in his country of origin (US)

imeannothing · 2023-09-02T14:22:20+00:00

I'm 28 and i know many men struggling. I'm an engineer and older dudes in my job almost always have wife/children, men my age i would say half have gf or wife. I think majority is average. No one of my handsome friends have problems with dating.
Girls my age at work are usually taken, and the single ones don't really seem like looking for a partner at least at work even tho they have (in my opinion) decent amount of choice.

_Chaos_And_Horny_ · 2023-09-02T15:22:46+00:00

From these comments I am way below average lol

CoC2018 · 2023-09-02T16:03:23+00:00

50k-60k is a solid yearly income and 5’11 isn’t even that short stay off tiktok bro

Shoddy-Donut-9339 · 2023-09-02T17:18:38+00:00

You ignored the most important part of average, the average personality.

The idea that personality does not matter is an idea being pushed by Incel/ red pill/ and purple pill people that women reject because of their bad personalities. The unwanted men do not want to believe that anything that s wrong with their personalities.

Personality matters more than height, face, muscles, and money combined.

So stipulate that this average man also has average personality.

Truly average man will get truly average sex. He will get sex but not enough sec to not be jealous of Chad.

He go average periods of time without a girlfriend.

When he has a girlfriend he will get more sex than when his only sex is one night stands. He will get average girlfriend sex. Sometimes she will not have sex. She will be average looking.

Is he struggling. Getting the next girlfriend won’t be easy but he will get another girlfriend after he loses a girlfriend. He will eventually marry because average people do eventually marry.

Is that t a struggle? It is half way between a struggle and not a struggle.

(Average 22 year old male is being rejected by average 22 year old woman because she prefers 25 year old more mature men.)

Shoddy-Donut-9339 · 2023-09-02T17:35:26+00:00

Single at a moment in time does not mean single a year ago or single a year from now.

I got no sex from age 19 to 22 but t since I had lost my virginity and had a girlfriend at age 18 I did not meet the definition of Incel.

Also you are not involuntarily celebrate if you are not making much of an impact fort to get with women.

I had sex with 10 women before I at 28 years old married a pretty woman but at any given point in time in my 20s I was probably single and probably had not had sex in the previous 3 months.

XBOXHEADS · 2023-09-02T18:31:27+00:00

This whole "average man," and "high value man," is toxic Youtube (social media) crap spread by a guy that was pretty much broke up until 2021 when he went viral on Youtube only to die soon after. The main people spreading that crap was him and his fraternity buddies under the guise of the "manosphere."

The majority of men date, have sex, and merry women. The only guys who don't are the ones that sit online all day listening to manosphere talking points in Youtube videos.

Safe_Crow_5910 · 2023-09-02T20:48:57+00:00

Can we stop judging men’s yearly salary? Jesus Christ we’re living in a worse economy than the Great Depression in terms of the ratio b/w the cost of living and what people are actually making, for god’s sake.

HamzaAghaEfukt · 2023-09-03T01:48:14+00:00

Truly average guys don’t have a dating life and can’t do the singles lifestyle - flings, hookups, one night stands, f**k buddies.

They can only hope to settle down in a long term relationship. Obviously the intellectually dishonest blue pillers will overlook this reality

philseven12 · 2023-09-03T03:42:53+00:00

Im average, but I do find my way into situationships whether I'm looking for it or not. I only struggled when I was younger because I didn't know the game and was too afraid to say what I wanted. Thinking too much and very high inhibitions are the enemy of making friends and connecting with women

You gotta let your nuts hang

Particular_Quit_4203 · 2023-09-03T05:56:54+00:00

How can it be a struggle when men as a whole are dead set against dating and when women are so desperate for sex.

chocobolamo · 2023-09-03T14:18:21+00:00

I was 30lb overweight, working in tech, and I spent 4 years on all dating apps not getting a single conversation. Just ghosted repeatedly. I wasn't even average. I was already in the top 3 percentile of income earners.

I got fit and muscular, and had 8 dates scheduled within a week of updating my photos.

So yes, average men struggle.

I knew the statistics, that the 80:20 rule had become the 95:5 rule. I had seen dating app data published in "dataclysm: who we are when no one is looking" which proves it is a fact. I then personally validated the 95:5 rule by getting into the 5% and seeing explosive results. Women were literally throwing themselves at me and I had to sort through the trash.

So I found a wonderful woman with 2 partners and no friends. Shes the most wonderful person I have ever met. A few insecurities, a bit of anxiety, but wonderful.

beyonddarkbat · 2023-09-03T18:37:49+00:00

I can only share my experience as a man interested in women. Judging myself subjectively, I think I'm above average as I'm fit and workout. I don't have a ridiculous jaw line but I have a good facial structure and I've had compliments about my hazel eye color throughout all my life. I've had several explicit expressed interests towards me in highschool more than I count. However, back then I was extremely religious and scared of anything intimacy and sex related so I rejected most of them. The ones I didn't reject ended up being averse from me after finding how weirdly shy or peculiar I am interacting with the opposite gender.

Fast forward to my mid 20s and now (30) I'm finding really hard to date. However, I had a one year long relationship which was my only relationship. Also, I had one other girl who forwardly asked me out on a date but I wasn't interested as I'm not attracted to her. Other than that, I've had no dates or sex with anyone and I'm frustrated to be completely honest. Keep in mind, beyond some soft flirting, I've never, literally never actually asked or expressed direct interest towards anyone or asked them on a date. So maybe therein lies the problem.

So it isn't necessarily as super easy for "above average " males as these red-pill youtubers make it out. I think going out and speaking to many people (while BEING RESPECTFUL of boundaries and not pushy) is what really counts towards your mating success. But you have to have a thick skin for it because even most attractive or above average males will get more rejections than reciprocal interest. If we're speaking about pure numbers, like how many girls would give you their number or go out on a date with you when approaching them out of the blue, the most people I've seen had success with that are literally the people that go out do it. Maybe you have to be at least average for that kind of approach but a lot of these people I'm talking about were not super chads with ridiculous jaw lines. Luckily for men who aren't as attractive, women don't pay much attention to looks as much as men do and personality really matters. But of course you'd have to join communities and mingle with friends for them to get to know you.

Greedy-Device-9881 · 2023-09-03T20:51:35+00:00

I would say no, I’m 5’7-8” and there was in a time in my life when I had no job, no car and I was getting so much sex.

Ocramaerdnad · 2023-09-04T21:27:23+00:00

In my country, 20/30k, 5'9/5'10 is average

That's what I earn and I consider my self average/slightly below average (I am 5'7)

I struggle with girls, but I don't even try so it doesn't matter

Title	Do TRULY average men actually struggle to date and have sex?
Author	Forsaken_Dragonfly66
Upvotes	117
Comments	450
Date	September 1, 2023 7:58 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/167hcc2/do_truly_average_men_actually_struggle_to_date/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-truly-average-men-actually-struggle-to-date-and.1230588 https://theredarchive.com/post/1230588

Comments