Men’s loneliness epidemic is not women’s problem.

SoPolitico · 2023-11-12T03:29:14+00:00

Just noticed after reading through the comments….why does everyone try to make this issue about getting laid? Like WTF? The male loneliness epidemic that is so often cited is WAY bigger than a handful of horny teens. It’s about men in there 30s through 50s not having friends. It’s about how men in their 30s consistently tell pollsters they’d like to get married and have children but either can’t afford to or can’t meet anyone. Then you look at Reddit and no joke there’s comments in this thread talking about govt mandated girlfriends. Dude WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Jesus if there was ever a time to touch grass

Femcelphobic · 2023-11-11T22:17:45+00:00

Most of the conversation on the subject of ‘male loneliness’ is around sex, relationships and women. If the solution to male loneliness is sex and romantic relationships, there’s nothing anybody can do for them. Nobody can make a woman want to fuck or be in a relationship with you (without violating any human rights), except you.

wtknight · 2023-11-11T21:54:46+00:00

We have not raised our men to be truly vulnerable, crippling them emotionally. Didn’t raise a lot of them to be servicial nor considerate; making it difficult for them to make connections and maintain friends.

I agree with your title, but I'm going to have to disagree with this assessment of what is causing the problem. The men of my generation weren't raised the way that you suggest to be raised, but did not have nearly the problem that many of this generation's men are having.

The biggest difference is the disincentive that the current generation of young men has to actually socialize with women and make themselves attractive to them, not that they are not emotionally vulnerable.

AdhesivenessLevel379 · 2023-11-11T22:02:32+00:00

A lot of men believe that having a girlfriend would solve all their mental health struggles and it really wouldn’t, it also sets very unfair expectations for future partners

TopG20233 · 2023-11-12T12:02:21+00:00

Jesus this one the worst thing I've read, god damn.

IllustriousDinner130 · 2023-11-11T22:43:57+00:00

Men’s problems are women’s problems, and vice versa. We’re all human, and neither of us are going anywhere. That doesn’t mean women should just roll over and let lonely men have sex with them, it means that if one gender is facing issues pretty soon it will be an issue for the opposite one. It’s just how the world works.

I will say that the reason that women struggle with loneliness must less than men is that women just aren’t lonely as much. They often have lots of friends and good social support groups. And on top of that, getting a relationship is pretty easy if your a women. If you’re an attractive women, you don’t even really have to do anything. I Can see how being alone might be appealing to a lot of women. But for men, loneliness is our norm. No one cares about us really, and we can’t get social the way women can. What women find empowering and liberating is useless to us because we’ve had it our whole lives.

And as a side note I find it bizarre that so many women talk about men’s issues saying they aren’t there problems but then get mad when men say they don’t care about women’s issues. Not saying you’re doing this OP, but I see it a lot

Philip8000 · 2023-11-12T01:51:40+00:00

In some cases, there may not be an easy solution, or a solution at all. One thing to decide to say you have other things to worry about; another to declare male loneliness and isolation as a moral failing, that it's proof they're entitled and misogynistic.

I've struggled with it most of my life, had maybe two friends throughout my entire childhood (neither of them ended well) I was autistic before that became a buzzword, so I didn't get support. I'm still trying to change things, improve my circumstances, but it's not an easy thing to do. I've never blamed women for it, nor is it "Oh, God, I'm not a real man if I can't get laid!" Sex might get most of the focus, but it's far deeper than that. It's about that sense of connection, of intimacy, that's lacking.

Men not being allowed to be vulnerable is a role both genders enforce. I've probably been told to "man up, stop whining!" more often from women than I have from men. I'm fairly open about my difficulties, although much less so than was once the case, and it often turns people off, even those who tell me very personal things.

Loneliness sucks for men and women. I see plenty of women in r/lonely lamenting the fact they don't have a partner, even being desperate for it. It's quite possible to be screwed over due to events outside of your control. Keep trying and hope for the best is sometimes all you can do.

John_Oakman · 2023-11-11T22:23:25+00:00

Morally you are correct, but materialistically/pragmatically those relevant men/males will make such a nuisance that their problem will become everyone's problem.

Yes that's an implicit threat of violence. Yes that is immoral. No, pointing out to them that it's immoral will not actually stop them.

Tricky_Dog1465 · 2023-11-11T22:45:35+00:00

Men are just as capable of creating communities, groups, ect, in order to help themselves in the same way that women do and have done. As women we should be concerned about this epidemic, but it is not our problem to solve, that is for men to do.

No one is entitled to the use of another person, so they need to find deep and meaningful friendships to fill those voids. Same as women

leosandlattes · 2023-11-11T22:25:54+00:00

I disagree, I do think male loneliness and other issues regarding men are women’s problem, or at least something we should be concerned about.

It causes divide that alienates men and women and causes them to see the worst in each other. All of us have at least one woman in our life that is constantly complaining about where the good men have gone, why dating is so hard, etc. Ultimately it affects women as well, as do other issues like men and prison, men and education, men and life expectancy, etc.

EveningEveryman · 2023-11-11T21:56:14+00:00

Talk about a mask slip. Is anything anyone problem?

PM_ME_YOUR_DONGERZ · 2023-11-12T08:22:39+00:00

Feminism: "Equality for everyone!"
Also feminism: "Why are male issues our problem?"

SeveralLiterature980 · 2023-11-12T02:58:47+00:00

Lol

What a silly take.

Disenfranchisement of a huge sector of society and gradual marginalization of that group is EVERYONE'S problem.

Curious_Attention719 · 2023-11-12T05:44:55+00:00

It's not women's problem until these men stop supporting society in violent and non-violent manners. The vast majority of men can survive in shit conditions, as the meme of the guy whose furniture is a lawn chair and a mattress on the floor while eating from a pot isn't far off from reality. Guys will upgrade their lifestyle to try mating, not really because they care to for their own benefit. The vast majority of the critical infrastructural labor is done by men, and if there's no incentive for them outside of a bigger check but no prospect of either being stupid rich or getting women, a lot of guys will check out.

LovesGettingRandomPm · 2023-11-12T05:54:32+00:00

Aside from casting blame there are a ton of changes like you said recently that aren't practical, gender roles were and have stood the test of time, if birthrates drop and mental health becomes an epidemic if it isn't already then we're in for a rough ride, maybe you don't mind being childless because the future doesn't look that bright but this is destructive. You wouldn't be here if it weren't for all your grandparents making the most of their situation, only for you to end the line.

oskajoerg · 2023-11-12T10:56:15+00:00

To be honest most things in life is just cope.

One way men used to cope with life in general was to support a family. What did that include? It meant working longer hours than his single peers, it meant helping to take care of the kids, it meant taking of a house (compared to single peers living in apartments) etc.

Said differently, having the trade in older days where a woman would give her youth and a man all his productive years was meaningful. The man, besides his youthful wife, got meaning in life and didn't have time to sit around thinking about not having enough friends etc. as he worked more at his job, at his house and with the kids.

Today most women can get everything; they can have fun in their youth with all the hot guys, and later find a desperate man that will sacrifice his live for her when she wants kids. This is good for women of course, but detrimental to men, especially the men that don't offer much in the looks department.

So most men in their 20s are stuck. I myself is a guy in my 20s, and I have chosen to go after the goal of financial independence, so I have chosen the path of a workaholic; why you may ask? My results with women have been awful, like most men with average looks.

Working hard to save money to hopefully retire earlier or find other meaningsful things to do has been a blessing. Why? My hormones are crazy at 25, because I really want a woman, but I am occupied with work; later in life when I can retire early then I don't have the same hormones anymore, so I can handle being alone better.

This is how I cope with life - we must all find a way. I know for a fact that I don't want a serious relationship with a woman that first find me attractive after I aqquired stuff, and as no one found me attractive while I struggled with university and now in my early career then it's better for me to be alone than with someone that only want what I can provide.

With this in mind then it's correct: it's not purely women's responsibility, however, if you want a functioning society then we all need to stand together and find a solution for these men.

Women are lucky, because you have inherent value due to your youth and beauty; men have no inherent value, so helping male peers finding meaning in life in other ways than their parents, as the average man is no longer useful for the average woman, is key to avoid a wrecked society.

We don't want a society with a lot of men that have nothing to loose.

ActonTime · 2023-11-12T13:28:00+00:00

You're starting with the assumption that modern society is natural, healthy and something that we should be upholding. That is not the case.

ScreenTricky4257 · 2023-11-12T13:39:45+00:00

Under the status quo ante, women were economically dependent on men. We set out, not just to give women the opportunity to change that, but to make it so that wasn't true anymore. We passed anti-discrimination laws and equal pay laws to give women equal economic power. We put societal stigmas on the idea that a man should keep a woman dependent on him. OK. But, despite women taking on masculine roles, we did not demand that women take on masculine attitudes. We haven't incentivized women to be more aggressive, more confrontational, more monofocused. Instead, we adapted our economic structure to women. We became more feminine and personal in the workplace.

Now, we want to aid men in the social structure in the same way. We want to make it so that men aren't dependent on having a woman as a partner in order to be socially secure. OK. But we are demanding that men become more feminine. We're not adapting our social structure to be more in tune with what men want.

My solution: we should destigmatize porn and sex work, and integrate social support for men into them. A man should be able to engage with women who will not just give him physical intimacy, but moral and emotional support, without needing it in return, for a reasonable fee. Something closer to therapy than prostitution, but without the idea that something is wrong with the man for wanting it.

obviously_anecdotal · 2023-11-12T13:48:41+00:00

It’s the responsibility of the whole society.

I disagree with your assessment about men’s vulnerability. Maybe prior generations were this way, but that’s a very fem-centric way of diagnosing a societal issue that is largely exclusive to men. In my opinion, the root of male loneliness is a lack of responsibility, purpose and means to improve one’s life.

I disagree that it isn’t women’s responsibility. It’s certainly not their responsibility to sleep with lonely men; I’m not suggesting that.

Women are excelling at a much higher rate in western society and still comprise about half the population. Women are in more positions of power (political & economic) than ever before. Women are graduating with college degrees more than men (at least in the west). Men are taught misogyny from a young age in school. In some ways you could say this (growing) population of men are a marginalized group.

Why women not use that power or voice to help a large and growing group of hurting men? These men are marginalized for a constellation of reasons and disregarding them will only yield worse outcomes for society.

Edit: part of my comment didn’t make sense. Changed it to be specific to male loneliness.

Johnfeb94 · 2023-11-12T20:10:58+00:00

I think that a lot of the reason men are checking out of having social lives or dating is that we determine it's not worth it anymore. So we turn to things like video games and porn. It seems the dynamics for both are becoming more in line with the 80/20% rule where only the top 20% of men are competitive socially and in dating. Also there's a lot of the "men are trash" sentiment and narratives. Men are being signaled that they're not worth as much. With the economy worsening it's an even more uphill battle. The dating scene is brutal and generally speaking women have a significant advantage from ages 18 - late 20's. People don't care as much about men as they do about women.

bluepvtstorm · 2023-11-11T22:09:46+00:00

I will say this, if a man’s sole solution to reducing loneliness is to be partnered with a woman, that is a relationship doomed to fail. That’s asking your partner to take on way too much emotional labor.

Dionysis_x · 2023-11-11T23:16:20+00:00

Men need to learn to cultivate better relationships and be less self centred.

depressed_apple20 · 2023-11-12T00:04:55+00:00

You are assuming that men can't get girlfriends because they aren't "vulnerable" enough, or because they are sexist, but you fail to realize that plenty of sexist men have success dating and getting laid and, in the other hand, plenty of nice men are universally rejected and considered unkissable by women.

Don't you realize that if you were a man, you could be an incel? The only reason you have it so easy in dating is because you are a woman and women have it waayyy easier when it comes to having sex, but for men, getting laid once in a lifetime can be harder than getting an engineering degree, and that's why plenty of men graduate from college before losing their virginity, I bet you would lose your mind if you had to be in their position, it's pretty easy for you to judge lonely men from your position of sexual priviledge.

tiddermacss · 2023-11-12T01:27:10+00:00

so much victimhood mentality within first 3 lines lol

harmonica2 · 2023-11-12T00:20:08+00:00

Well it seems that men think of relationships now more romantically than a lot of women, and more women's attitude towards dating is, this is not the 70s anymore, I don't need this?

JohnStamos_55 · 2023-11-12T00:03:08+00:00

Imagine if a man wrote off womens issues as “not my problem” lmao he would be burned at the stake

God_of_a_wasteland · 2023-11-11T22:39:36+00:00

Tell that to the women complaining about not getting approached or asked out

You won't though

doggiedoc2004 · 2023-11-11T23:15:09+00:00

While I agree that this is a small part of the problem, it is not the whole piece. I don't necessarily want men to be very vulnerable and emotional. Nor do I think most women want this. I think we want a man who CAN be these things under certain circumstances but who is also a man in the masculine sense as well...outgoing, driven, strong EQ, strong work ethic, centers his life around his family and not useless hobbies like gaming.

I also think that a HUGE factor is economics. Lets put aside the fact that women can earn a living and be free. A lot of us still want someone who can reasonably provide for the household in an equitable manner, especially as we step back in our careers to make and raise children (the biggest gift a woman can give a man.)

Both our political parties screwed men over in the 90s by shipping our good manufacturing jobs overseas, vastly limiting the number of higher paying, union jobs that a non college educated man can get. Our norms still dictate that a mans worth are in what he can provide to the family (same as for a women, just slightly different things we provide) At various times in the past, a man could feel good about himself, in a good job with a pension, the ability to buy a house a car and provide for a 4 person family and go on a few vacations. These types of jobs are much fewer now and many lower class men end up in dead end jobs. (There some exceptions - show me a police officer, fireman, high earning tradesman, CO, or lineman who is not married/in a LTR)

Another factor is that predatory, capitalistic men created dating apps, easily accessible porn, video games and cheap shitty food to keep the lower class in their places and make tons of money while doing it. Women didn't create this shit. We may participate, we may occasional mimic and make our own app...but the blame lays primarily with men for this stuff. (I say this as a general fan and supporter of capitalism)

One bone i'll through to the MRA's out there... the education system (especially elementary/jr and high school) in the last 40 years has absolutely been dominated by women at the expense of a lot of boys. Public education needs to be widely reimagined to take into account how boys learn best, more trade school opportunities, more hands on projects, more physical/movement based learning and activity. I think red shirting is a great idea for a lot of boys these days and newer moms out there that see this comment should look into it.

Kilatypus · 2023-11-12T03:15:14+00:00

Most guys aren't bringing talking points that the male loneliness epidemic is women's problems: it's obvious women don't care and are selfish and only seek what they can get out of this world.

What men want is to know what we need to do to get what we want, and for women to not get in our way. And that's exactly what we are going to.

This is what happens when you tell people to forge their own path. We don't owe the world anything and we don't have to cooperate with what an ideal male looks like to the rest of the world.

jpla86 · 2023-11-11T22:54:07+00:00

Okay, then stop asking men to care about women’s issues because that’s not MY problem either. Especially considering it’s a gender that’s never had any impact in my life and I pretty much never deal with.

Sessile-B-DeMille · 2023-11-12T02:22:34+00:00

There are rather a lot of these sorts of threads here, so it must be important to a lot of guys. I'm not sure it's important that women be sympathetic towards these young men, because they don't interact with many women other than coworkers and family members.

Honestly, what I think this boils down to is that these men are at a loss as to how to meet a potential partner. If you don't have a good social network it's nearly impossible, and even then it's not easy.

The other thing to remember is that there is a surplus of men who are single and are looking for a relationship at all ages. For young men, there's a numerical surplus of men, and for middle aged and older men, women's interest in finding a new relationship declines with age more quickly than it does for men.

hongsta2285 · 2023-11-12T03:54:13+00:00

I agree all women should have access to 6 foot 6 inches 6 figure men at their leisure no matter what they have what they bring and what their body count is. Everyone is fully entitled to one of those. Even the transgender men that are now women. We just need to create more of those men! So everyone gets one! Problem solved!

Independent-Mail-227 · 2023-11-11T23:50:51+00:00

> Men’s loneliness epidemic is not women’s problem.

You can only say it so far because there's a population of men still willing to fund your country and protect it from foreing influence, in 25 years will be "maybe we should see male issues", in 50 years will be "Men please help".

>https://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiegermano/2019/03/27/women-are-working-more-than-ever-but-they-still-take-on-most-household-responsibilities/?sh=35f0f9f152e9

Still working less than men in average.

MateriallyAttatched · 2023-11-11T23:49:46+00:00

It's becomes my problem when the place I'm at gets shot up by some young male that gets no bitches.

Crimson-Pilled · 2023-11-12T17:10:23+00:00

If men's problems aren't women's problems, then women's problems shouldn't be men's problems. Men with self-respect should be patriarchal traditionalists.

macone235 · 2023-11-11T22:40:43+00:00

A lot of the resentment directed towards women is unwarranted.

No, it's most certainly warranted, because women have created a society that harms and punishes men through lies and deception. Lonely men are not entitled to women. However, they are entitled to the truth that women have done everything they can to censor.

Ideas such as "men just need to be more vulnerable" as you bring up just highlights the exact issues that women are causing. Men are more vulnerable than ever before, and it's been met with extreme backlash that of course has turned into resentment. Women's inability to be truthful is why these issues exist. Men are tired of being blamed for women's own creations like gender roles, and they are tired of being silenced and censored when they dare question the hypocrisy.

MyLastBestChance · 2023-11-11T23:09:12+00:00

Get rid of all electronic entertainment and interactive media and the issue would be solved pretty quickly at least for the next generation.

Kids would need to leave the house and actually interact with people IRL. They would be forced to develop social skills because there wouldn’t be anything else to do.

At the same time aggressively encourage men to go into education and child care fields and sponsor more big brother style mentoring for children without involved fathers.

Launch massive ongoing destigmatization campaigns around boys and men seeking mental health support.

There are a lot of other measures that would help but in order to be taken seriously by men, these initiatives need to be sponsored by, initiated by and broadly supported by men.

Women would support these efforts. What we don’t support is the idea that “loneliness” = “sexless” and that the solution to that is something we are responsible for…

giveuporfindaway · 2023-11-11T23:34:26+00:00

The male loneliness epidemic is a problem for women:

Lack of pairing off leads to lack of marriage formation, which leads to lack of family formation, which leads to lack of grand children to wipe someones ass down the road. We are the first generation that won't have anyone to take care of us. Look up videos in Japan on elderly dying alone in apartments.
Cultural values are transferred through raising children. And to all you bleeding heart progressive liberals reading this: no public schools and other sources do not shift cultural values more than parental upbringing. You cannot convert your way out of this. Liberal progressive women who choose not to reproduce are endorsing a conservative anti-women future, because the only cultures that are having children are conservative.
Single men with nothing to lose don't vote for progressive women's rights. They vote for whatever wrecking ball that will provide entertainment smashing the system that they perceived being wronged by.
All violent, dangerous, dirty physical jobs are done by men. Men have no incentive to do these jobs if there's no external reward beyond money. The shortage of men in these jobs will lead to catastrophic quality of life and safety problems for women.
If men have no reason to work, then they won't. That's a reduction in the tax base for supporting things we take for granted now. We will go drift towards being a third world country.

All of these trends do not benefit women. Women will get to experience the detroitification of the world within their lifetime. They will wake up one day and realize that a policeman was not some abstract infinite on tap resource.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2023-11-11T22:30:21+00:00

While I agree with the vast majority of what you’re saying I think the real issue with men is that they were raised to believe that they are entitled to a woman for sex and domestic labor just by being born a man and to also view anything that women do as below them. That’s why the biggest dis boys or men give to one another is “ you do x like a girl .” That entitlement is what men are suffering from.

MassiveScarcity5337 · 2023-11-12T01:16:19+00:00

It will be eventually. If half of society is perpetually depressed and given up it’ll soon be noticeable on everyone’s quality of life when the economy starts dipping and companies are having a hard time hiring anyone

EuphoricBrightTipper · 2023-11-11T22:32:07+00:00

Women struggles are just like rich people losing half their fortune... yeah, even the government has to bail them up. First, male loneliness epidemic is not such a big thing as women put it... it is just journalist fake crisis to manipulate men into buying more feminist turds.

But wait, there is more....

Pink tax is not men's problem.
Women choosing abusive partners (especially other women) is not men's problems.
Guys ignoring women at work is not any man's problem, in fact they are avoiding it.

Meanwhile, if I would be a woman I would think that a lot of those men are in my family. Your sons are probably be losers if most men are losers. Those men will not contribute to society and let it rot, so collective mental health is important.

So yes, ironically, as men do most real labor and pay most taxes, I would say women are the most affected by male loneliness. Lonely Men not contributing to society or caring about women is worse for women than for them.

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SoPolitico · 2023-11-12T03:16:27+00:00

I do think that OP is right we have failed men. I think where we differ is when it comes to the next part… I find it pretty ironic when some people all of a sudden kinda shrug their shoulders when the issues boys and men face are discussed. It’s especially ironic when self proclaimed feminists to do it (luckily I don’t think the majority do). You can’t be all about equality and then only pay attention to the problems facing people like you.

wtffellification · 2023-11-12T08:49:49+00:00

of course it is a women's problem, women are people and men constitute half of people. I didn't read your post though

Born_Werewolf_8181 · 2023-11-13T05:17:26+00:00

I love how women assume that everything that came before now was "abuse" and "ignorance" as opposed to a lower economic and civilizational level that we built up over time. It's like the effect of men building up society and technology doesn't exist and we just suddenly let women be people instead of all of this being a necessary stepping stone for survival and moving civilization forwards.

It's ok, the loneliness epidemic is coming for women too - once the female attention and beauty bubble/delusion breaks in their 30's women lose their fucking minds having to earn the attention and help from others instead of just getting preferential treatment for being female/playing the victim.

Pantone711 · 2023-11-13T07:47:27+00:00

It's not about friendship OR sex per se. It's about status.

The reason it cuts so deep to not be able to get laid (for these dudes) is the lack of status. Especially compared to others. The lack of "conquest" waves the low status in their faces all the time.

Nobody talks about status in the USA and nobody knows how to deal with being thwarted status-wise.

This is why some people don't wanna settle for the partner they can attain and make the best of it. (i.e., some of these dudes could go down here to the Baptist Church in a small town and find a small-town wife but they'd have to live the lifestyle) Edited to add: Same with me; I'm a woman who didn't have much sexual success or status but I could have married in the working-class small-town sect I was raised in but I didn't...turns out upper middles wouldn't have me)

It takes a lot of philosophy to accept one's lack of status or prospects and our USA culture doesn't teach us to make our peace with also-ran status.

JohnStamos_55 · 2023-11-12T00:05:47+00:00

But If I wrote off domestic abuse, abortion, sa, etc as “not my problem, women have to deal with that” many of you women would be furious lmao

TomKikkert · 2023-11-12T00:12:45+00:00

… and women’s safety is not a man’s problem

Lina-Inverse · 2023-11-12T00:22:20+00:00

It's not a women's problem on an individual level. It is on a societal level though, since ultimately it affects all society.

That said it becomes a women's individual problem when they have a son who watches andrew tate and thinks he's great and are confused why on earth boys would look up to a moron like that.

We have not raised our men to be truly vulnerable, crippling them emotionally.

No no no, last thing we need is more "vulnerable" men. Boys aren't being taught how to become men in a world that is much less forgiving to them than before, but has all the same expectations of generations prior.

You can't just raise boys to be more vulnerable then thrust them out into a world that absolutely demolishes vulnerable men in every area of life. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

Brotherhood/ brotherly love hasn’t been cultivated en mass.

It actually is but it regularly gets demonised as toxic masculinity when it does, then it just goes underground and does in many cases manifest into toxicity as if you try to suppress something without solving the issue, it generally just comes back as something even worse.

Men aren’t raised to see emotional intimacy as something they need to give to each other or to women.

Men give emotional intimacy to men all the time, it just doesn't resemble what women think of as emotional intimacy. I give emotional intimacy, it doesn't involve letting men cry on my shoulder or sharing sob stories, it involves just giving men the straight hard facts and not making them be ashamed of their failures to date and motivating them to not give up.

I think this does highlight why it's not really a problem women can solve, this OP just seems to fundamentally misunderstand almost every aspect of the problem, probably because the OP is almost certainly not male and thus doesn't actually understand what the problem is and is tackling by from a woman's perspective, because I find it literaly impossible that a guy could have written this (It is possible OP is a guy in his early 20s maybe i dunno, i feel even a guy that young wouldn't write something like this)

James_Cruse · 2023-11-12T01:27:17+00:00

It’s not women’s problem but the reasons you gave here are untrue at best and actively in bad faith at worst.

I have NEVER MET a woman alive today (of ANY AGE) who has claimed or stated that they were “raised to be a mother that takes care of the kids and house”. Women aren’t RAISED that way. Women WANT to do that and have children and once they become mothers: they go back and ask their mother what they need to do and need to know. Sometimes they need their mother to stay with them to help and do learn from her AFTER THEIR CHILD IS BORN. So that’s total rubbish.
I live in Australia and women here make these same excuses! Normal men AND Women got the right to vote in Australia earlier than America. There is no voter who was 18 years old when the vote came in here alive today. (Normal working class) Men only got the vote shortly before women.
The fact that you THINK men and women are the SAME and that women don’t need men, is hilarious. You’re obviously very young and obviously not in a relationship with a man. I’m betting you still live at home with your parents or are in university living away. If you don’t need men, feel free to go walking by yourself at night with your earphones in, unaccompanied by a man. Please, see how it works out. Or see how it works when you’re with a man and it sounds like someone has broken in, and without a gun, your boyfriend sends YOU downstairs to check it out rather than him going.

Perhaps just take a trip alone to Latin America and walk around by yourself during the day, I’m sure you’ll be just fine as a strong independent woman that doesn’t need no man. Lol. (I’ve been to Latin america alone myself - was fine, I’m a tall strong man).

Without ANY man protecting women - women are extremely vulnerable because they are much much physically weaker than men. It sounds like you’re very young and inexperienced.

You don’t care about men for other reasons that you’re not stating here - but these reasons are silly, invalid and bad faith.

No-Click9406 · 2023-11-12T04:42:09+00:00

I think the main issue is financial. we basically live in a world where it's almost required to have a girlfriend that helps pay rent and other bills unless you have a good job or career.

if prices shot down I guarantee this wouldn't be considered an issue because people could afford to live happily instead of stressing all by themselves.

ignitedwolf9200 · 2023-11-11T22:31:16+00:00

Men are lonely because they do not want to put in effort to maintain meaningful relationships. Most of them do not know their so called “bros” birthdays (AND they make jokes about it - as if it’s funny or something). Nope this is not women’s to solve, fellas! Figure it out.

Organic-Raccoon1776 · 2023-11-12T05:06:22+00:00

What rights do women no longer have in the western world? Which do men have over women, and vice versa?

mnt68 · 2023-11-11T22:15:16+00:00

Repeat after me: WE NEED MEN.

Stop pretending that women aren’t affected by men’s loneliness. Just stop it. For every man that is alone there is a woman that is alone (or is at least not experiencing monogamy.)

If all the men who aren’t finding fulfillment in life were to suddenly stop participating in maintaining a healthy community, the shit would hit the fan. Women can’t sit back and pretend that happy men aren’t a huge part of why they live with modern conveniences today.

Piss on men long enough and watch what happens, because they’ll stop working and caring. Women aren’t prepared to fill the roles that men fill every single day.

Get off your armchair and start giving a shit.

DesertShifter · 2023-11-11T22:19:10+00:00

relationships are focused on equivalent exchange

Lolno, most women are dating up not across the board. We see predictions that 40-45% of women will be single by their 40s because of a refusal to actually be in an equivalent exchange scenario.

the loneliness epidemic isnt because of todays culture its the culture of the past thats the problem! Guys need to be more vulnerable and open!

If this were true then loneliness would decrease as we move away from past cultural norms, yet the opposite is happening. The more we break away the worse it gets. It is so glaringly obvious and blatant of a trend that it is undeniable yet here we are trying to pretend 2+2=5.

Creepy-Night936 · 2023-11-12T00:01:01+00:00

I agree with everything you said here.

We have not raised our men to be truly vulnerable, crippling them emotionally.

This is exactly true. Society will punish men for showing emotion so it's all bottled up and they explode in the most violent and volatile way.

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2023-11-12T08:54:25+00:00

So men don't open up to women because opening up usually gets it used against you or called pathetic, insecure,immature etc...

ChemistryFederal6387 · 2023-11-12T10:55:31+00:00

A lot of the resentment directed towards women is unwarranted. Women have just started living in society as “full” people (still don’t have bodily autonomy). We barely got the right to open a bank account 49 years ago in 1974. Many women were raised to work AND take care of the household, husband and kids. This isn’t accepted today in wider young adult society. Relationships are more focused on equivalent exchange/ reciprocity. If that isn’t found then being single living alone or with friend is great.

So? Your complaining about stuff that happened before I was born. What does it have to do with me? You may as well rant on about the Vietnam War and Nixon.

It’s not enough to just bring in a paycheck and ride each other’s coattails domestically. Household and emotional labor have to be preformed by both partners. Gender roles are becoming irrelevant; in the free world we have the inherent right to live as we like. It’s a basic right to pick the RIGHT partner that shares the same values and enjoys your company. The traditional life is a respectable valid choice. It’s not for everyone and shouldn’t be an expectation. As is the same for hookup culture. We are going through social growing pains.

Except gender roles are not becoming irrelevant, precisely because of the choices women make. They want make who earn more then them. Fair enough but they can't have those preferences and then whine that the career obsessed guy they chose has no interest in doing the dishes and bringing up babies.

You can't have it all, your choices have consequences.

One of these pains is the loneliness epidemic. Some believe because there is one for men, women are responsible. I believe it lies in the ways we have raised men in the past generations.

So you think that the reason vast numbers of men are swiped left and ignored by women is due to something that happen in Ye Olde Days.

Strap in, this is going to be some world class feminist woo.

As a society we have wronged both genders in different ways. Women are still fighting for our rights of personhood. I have witnessed this dynamic in many households of my aunts, moms friends and my friends growing up:

You don't disappoint, this is woo bulls*it of the highest order. This does paragraph come with a free dream catcher?

We have not raised our men to be truly vulnerable, crippling them emotionally. Didn’t raise a lot of them to be servicial nor considerate; making it difficult for them to make connections and maintain friends. This leaves men without one of the social nets women have for support. Brotherhood/ brotherly love hasn’t been cultivated en mass. Men aren’t raised to see emotional intimacy as something they need to give to each other or to women. Being guarded like that makes anyone more guarded against you. I know younger generations like gen Z and Alpha are changing it up.

Yes because the reason men are being swiped left is because they are no emotionally vulnerable.

This is classic womansplaining, you're talking about something you can't possibly understand.

Women don't live in a world of competition for sex and partners. Pretty much any women can have sex anytime she wants and find a partner anytime she wants.

The male reality is very different, men live in a world of competition, in which only the loudest, the strongest, the richest, the funniest and highest status men are noticed. That is why they compete with each other and why male relationships are different.

That doesn't mean worse. What are patronising feminist has forgot the mention, is after decades of the world being feminist and rigged against men. Men still dominate so many important fields, like science, politics and business. Part of this is driven by male competition and the need to excel.

This also reeks of a feminist telling men not to be bothered about being rejected, celibate and not having a sex life.

We need to adapt as a society, men in this instance especially. I sympathize with men’s struggles with the dating scene. Pretty privilege is a scourge on us all and used against any gender. Men have it against women more than they claim women use it in them. At the end of the day no person is entitled to another’s time nor body. Not just because you simply exist as a man or as a woman. This is a problem with many complexities and one gender isn’t more culpable than the other.

You don't sympathise at all, stop lying.

That argument also works against women. Women aren't entitled to a 6 foot plus rich guy and if that guy choses to pump and dump them. Well they aren't entitled to long term access to his body, time and wealth.

Though the most compelling argument against your feminist woo is demographics.

Feminist societies don't have enough babies and with a fertility rate below the replacement level, such societies don't work in the long run.

bl4ckpilled · 2023-11-12T12:39:02+00:00

We will make it your problem. I became an oil lobbyist because of women. You reap what you sow

According-Jelly1719 · 2023-11-12T17:15:21+00:00

" the end of the day no person is entitled to another’s time nor body. "

Exactly. That's why more and more men drop out of society. No women no effort. Sorry, that's just how lots of us are wired. We can't help it just like you can't help who you are attracted to.

Good luck running a society with that though. Unless women start working in trades?

lovestocomment · 2023-11-12T19:09:19+00:00

Can we stop with this femist bullshit? Seriously. The reason men are lonely is because of women. The average man still makes more than a woman. Owns more property. Has less debt. More financially responsible. Contribute more to society, but women consume more.

Yet, you find that most women over value themselves on the dating market. And as a result you have a situation where more heterosexual women are in relationships (around 20% more), yet the amount of men who are single and sexless are way higher than women.

You should make a post telling women to stop fuckin and dating the same men. There are literal FB groups and websites that women use to research whether or not they are dating or fucking the same dudes. This has nothing to do house hold responsibility or income or whatever. It has to do with value. And the fact is that the average woman doesn't value the average man. Yet, they have way less to offer the average man...

Deadwalking2k · 2023-11-11T23:09:27+00:00

Everything you said is not only wrong by actually the other way around. And you know what? When society inevitably becomes dangerous again in the physical sense. Me and a lot of men are gonna remember women like you saying these things and say “you know what? Women’s safety isn’t our problem”.

Silver_Switch_3109 · 2023-11-11T22:57:03+00:00

Until it becomes a massive problem for women.

AwesomeRocky-18- · 2023-11-11T23:35:41+00:00

Men’s loneliness epidemic is a man’s issue. Why don’t they turn around to help and talk to each other instead of blaming women for not doing it for them?

ResentCourtship2099 · 2023-11-12T00:33:35+00:00

Well that's the luxury women have always had due to how for all time they have always been on the receiving end of sexual attention

Onefamiliar · 2023-11-11T23:49:47+00:00

Didn't read after you said women don't have bodily autonomy. Argue in good faith. Men don't have bodily autonomy either - see draft and circumcision.

Financial_Window_990 · 2023-11-12T00:11:05+00:00

The problem here is that traditionally raised men are the ones who are entering into relationships while the men that were raised with emotional intimacy, household chores, etc. are the ones who are lonely. WOMEN indoctrinated men to fit this new mold, then reject the exact men who bought their lies.

_H_a_c_k_e_r_ · 2023-11-11T22:29:03+00:00

Women's rights are also not men's problem. I don't understand why do men pay so much tax for government programs that only help women and protect their rights.

ilike18yoblackpussy · 2023-11-11T22:26:51+00:00

I believe the male loneliness epidemic is imaginary. According to Jordan Peterson, girls are more prone to feelings of loneliness than boys from the time of puberty onward.

I'd say that the major problem faced by men, especially younger men, is being horny and trying to get laid. Not being lonely. Now if you're talking about elderly men whose wives have died and kids have moved out, or something like that, then, yes, they may be lonely.

But I don't think the average young man is particularly lonely. At least not more so than the average young woman.

StupidSexySisyphus · 2023-11-12T00:00:37+00:00

Yes and no. Lonely dude here. I would like more female friends and friends in general. We're the work work work drones and where can we go that's not weird? Talk to kids as a guy? Weird. Talk to random people as a guy? Weird.

Anyway, I had a guy work on the attic the other day. Guess what? He has no friends either and he's lonely. I asked him if his work to life quality is very good with the trades which he stated is pretty abysmal and he's lonely too. Nice guy from what I could tell.

So yeah smash the patriarchy and fuck capitalism. I agree with all that. Isn't good for anyone, but similarly women also enforce that he's gotta be a stereotypical man working the shitty trade jobs 6+ days a week so he can be a good provider thing.

_Remember_me_not_ · 2023-11-12T03:39:41+00:00

It never was and it never will be. Men were too late to realize this and most of them are still delusional thinking they need to protect and hold the world up, there is no point in continuing to beat a dead horse. Men should accept the changes and quickly adapt instead of mourning the bygones. Work on yourself, push your limits and only associate with people with values and zeal. There is no need to empathize with those who exist only to demonize and hate you because once you are good enough, you can find better people who will appreciate you. There is no point in being an incel or simp and then be bitter eternally, if you let your hatred drown your intellect or let others exploit your desperation, then who else is to be blamed?

Substantial_Video560 · 2023-11-12T07:15:10+00:00

What men really need to do is start embracing stoicism. Becoming more independent, self sufficiant and not seeking validation from women for self worth. Work on redefining your character and individualism. Become the best man you can be.

dishonouronmycow · 2023-11-11T23:14:21+00:00

We can encourage workers safety and rights, strong communities and social groups, and bring back places where people can meet organically. Loneliness is awful, especially in old age

abaxeron · 2023-11-12T07:52:02+00:00

We barely got the right to open a bank account 49 years ago in 1974.

Women deciding to run Ponzi schemes instead of banks is not men's problem.

It is men's problem that women forced men to reabsorb the costs of their defaults on debt and bankruptcies.

Many women were raised to work AND take care of the household, husband and kids.

Women not noticing that married men with kids spent MORE time on paid and unpaid labor combined for the majority of years we have reliable data on, is not men's problem.

Domestic chores falling 3 times to their century-old baseline and women not noticing, is not men's problem.

We need to adapt as a society, men in this instance especially.

Yes. However you aren't groundbreaking here by saying the same thing women have been saying for eternity - that women are perfect as they are, and all their problems are externally imposed, and men are broken, and need fixing.

The main problem men have with socializing is free time. Men are overworked, overtaxed, and in the majority of countries we have data on, don't have enough time to sleep. ("but muh LEISURE" - Shut. Up. "Leisure" arbitrarily includes sports; for men, way more than for women, it's a medical necessity, and also arbitrarily EXcludes "self-care" out of "leisure".)

If men have time to socialize and the right to fruits of their labor, men will fix the rest themselves. You cannot help men by sending them to some "emotional maturity training" where even more of their time will be sapped out on useless nonsense for the benefit of everyone but themselves.

Det_Steve_Sloan · 2023-11-12T10:10:55+00:00

Pretty privilege is a scourge on us all and used against any gender. Men have it against women more than they claim women use it in them. At the end of the day no person is entitled to another’s time nor body.

For the billionth time, no. It's been VERY well documented that fat and/or unattractive women will only seek a male aesthetically out of her league way more than the inverse.

Men aren't claiming to be 'entitled' to a given woman's body, rather, 6/10 men are getting increasingly sick of 4/10 women brutally rejecting them.

Good_Abroad_6275 · 2023-11-12T04:55:28+00:00

It absolutely IS a women's problem when it's women who have insanely unrealistic expectations. When society and other women constantly tell every woman that she is a queen who deserves to never settle for less than the top 10% of men, even when she is an overweight, plain looking, single mother who doesn't make that much money or bring much to the table.

An analogy would be, you can't sell your middle class home because all of the homebuyers feel entitled to a mansion whether they can afford it or not.

..and then they tell you your lack of success is your problem and not theirs.

LouisdeRouvroy · 2023-11-12T01:04:48+00:00

We barely got the right to open a bank account 49 years ago in 1974.

Feminist myth.

Not to mention that you didn't need a bank account to live until then...

Nellylocheadbean · 2023-11-12T00:15:55+00:00

The thing is this male loneliness epidemic is really blown out of proportion. Most men are in relationships and having sex. It’s really the men that have no attractive qualities whatsoever that’s struggling.

If most men can obtain a girlfriend/wife/sex without issues, what does that say about the small percentage of unattractive lonely men? They’re just not willing to do the work because they have this belief that they’re entitled to love/sex/relationships with woman.

IFightingFrogsI · 2023-11-12T06:49:25+00:00

Men’s loneliness epidemic is not women’s problem.

It is females' problem if they keep lying about it

Eauxddeaux · 2023-11-12T06:50:34+00:00

Hopefully we’ll get to a place of technological advancement where we can reproduce without having to interact. Everyone is so incredibly selfish and self-centered, and increasingly more-so, we deserve to get what we’re asking for. Experience that devils bargain. See how it actually feels. I’m so exhausted of the details of how much people don’t care about others and how it’s really about “me”, whatever the gender or orientation. We should be given the chance to exist without each other for a while. Maybe that’ll remind us why it matters. All this debating about levels of blame and entitlement is simply depressing.

Saitama1993 · 2023-11-12T10:52:13+00:00

Ok then. Should we say that women getting harrased and disadvantaged at the work place, is not men's problem?

OnePotatoeChip · 2023-11-12T18:12:25+00:00

I'll say that, as far as sex and relationshisps are concerned, male loneliness is pretty self-inflicted. For the most part. We're so enamored with women and the thought of being sexually successful that it creates this sort of whiplash when that success doesn't come about. The opposite isn't necessarily true for women; they're not as enamored with us as we are with them in the grand scheme of things.

So they're fine with being alone. They're fine with drinking wine and rubbing one out on a Friday night. But for that to be a man? He's a loser, of course. And it's mostly other dudes so ready to foist that label on him. Some women, too, yeah, but it's mostly his fellow man.

And so to be someone they can respect, something he can respect, access to women is a must and it's driving so many of ya'll up the wall. 'Cause you'll see some influencer in bed with two women or something and the image just sort of imbedds itself in your head with a caption of: This should be me.

I can almost guarantee that, for a lot of us, if we stopped giving women so much headspace, stopped giving this whole HVM/Alpha/Beta BS so much headspace, we'd be better off and probably happier for it.

Ackee_an_Salfish · 2023-11-12T00:31:47+00:00

Whoever blames women for men’s loneliness is stupid. Women have raised their standards, if you don’t meet them, oh well. Either you work to meet those standards or be lonely.

That being said, the single mother epidemic isn’t men’s fault. Men have raised their standards in regards to what they will allow/deal with in a relationship. Either women meet it continually or get left.

It’s a cold world out there

EnergyOwn6800 · 2023-11-12T00:20:12+00:00

Man need to stop being baby back bitches about this honestly. Hit the gym, get in shape, get your money up, go to a foreign country if you have to. Too many soy boys nowadays.

Moping and feeling sorry for yourself is not a luxury men can be afforded. We have a duty to be stronger mentally, not just physically.

Title	Men’s loneliness epidemic is not women’s problem.
Author	Abysswalker55117
Upvotes	86
Comments	497
Date	November 11, 2023 9:44 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/17t4r78/mens_loneliness_epidemic_is_not_womens_problem/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/mens-loneliness-epidemic-is-not-womens-problem.1238161 https://theredarchive.com/post/1238161

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