This sub really needs to stop calling men who struggle in dating "socially inept"

Johnny_Autism · 2023-07-02T15:40:38+00:00

men struggle because they lack meaningful communication men struggle because the lack emotional and sexual intimacy skills men struggle because they lack...

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[–]sugartomyT-1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not sure if im supposed to laugh or just sigh. That's a different country with a different culture, and they have really, really rigid gender standards. I don't think you are enough of a man, to be frank.

Kinda weird you're attracted specifically to that and just that. I mean, those are the most sought after in the dating market. Like, the top. You aren't on the top. It's like I would look for a vehicle and would tell the salesmen I want a private plane when I can barely afford to Pay in full for a mediocre to shitty car. We all want things, it's good to want things, but you have to know when those things get unrealistic. Do you also need her to be attractive in the face and have a nice frame?

It's not your fault really, but everything else is.

Yada yada yada, everyone has excuses. Everyone will do everything and anything before lowering their standards, seeing their preferred gender as actual humans, socializing and bettering themselves.

Wish you the best of luck amd God speed. Let me know how your Filipino lessons will go, since those people don't speak English that well. I also hear they have a really bad drug problem. Might watch out for that hot, young, Asian chick, she might need a wee time in rehab before being ready for a ltr.

I see you're honest. Maybe too much so.

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I absolutely won't bitch about passport bros, they are free to bang Asian chicks who will use them for their money. Be aware tho, you will likely also have to support their family, and quite frankly, yall aren't half man enough to face the masculinity standard from those cultures.

Lmao! This is funny. Using men for their money is basically what western women do all the time. Hence why, the phrase "alpha fucks, beta bux" has been popularized in the West in the first place. At least Asian women are traditional, less promiscuous, are family-oriented, respect their husbands, etc. Western women have none of those qualities and are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to relationships. It wasn't always like that, but it has been for the past few decades.

I will bitch about men paying to rape, because most prostitutes 1) start as teens, 2) are from marginalized groups and have no other choices and 3) it's the profession with the highest mortality rate, John's are often abusive and most of them literally have wife and kids at home.

So, it's all men's fault? Got it! Female accountability (or lack thereof) at its best. There's another feather in the cap for eastern women.

[–]sugartomyT1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Lol, you seem frustrated.

No, Asian women aren't less promiscuous. They also have sexual desires, and they will fuck your neighbour if you don't fuck them right.

As for alpha fucks beta bucks, I have a theory. People like experiences dude. Money can buy experiences. If you want cool experiences without money, you probably either do drugs, or you are a jerk(emotional rollercoaster), or just do hooligan shit. It's so logical when you dissect it.

Yes. It is the men's fault. Especially the ones who pimp those girls. I know 3 myself.

So only western women are females? Lovely of you to assume that I'm from the west, that's not the case. Again, those women will eat you up. You better get ready to never show emotion again, hold down at least 2 jobs, and don't even think about eating with the family. The rest comes first, always. Lil snowflake.

[–]buntyisbest2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Lol! What??? I seem frustrated? 🤣🤣

You're the one who said you didn't care about passport bros and then started blasting them, effectively showing that you do care quite a bit about them and it frustrates you thinking about all the western women that are gonna be perpetually single because of men either wanting to opt-out of relationships or finding greener pastures elsewhere.

As for alpha fucks beta bucks, I have a theory. People like experiences dude. Money can buy experiences. If you want cool experiences without money, you probably either do drugs, or you are a jerk(emotional rollercoaster), or just do hooligan shit. It's so logical when you dissect it.

Oh so you admit that western women have just as much gold-digging tendencies as you claim eastern women do. Great! I'm glad we could find common ground here. The rest of this excerpt is too incoherent to make any sense.

Yes. It is the men's fault. Especially the ones who pimp those girls. I know 3 myself. Taking advantage of starving women? It must the the women's (young girls') fault! Again, most of them have a wife and kids at home.

Let's set them aside because that's not who I'm talking about. I'm not talking about trafficked or homeless women that are forced into this line of work. If you think those are the only women doing sex work in the West, you need a serious reality check. I'm talking about educated women that could've been working at Starbucks to earn some pocket change or working a respectable corporate job after college, but instead chose to sell their bodies either online or in-person due to one word - GREED! Fast money, if you will. Women are not always - or most of the time - the victims that you want to portray them as. Only in the West will you see women projecting themselves as strong and independent, while simultaneously harping about their perceived victimhood.

So only western women are females? Lovely of you to assume that I'm from the west, that's not the case. Again, those women will eat you up. You better get ready to never show emotion again, hold down at least 2 jobs, and don't even think about eating with the family. The rest comes first, always. Lil snowflake.

When did I say that western women are the only ones that are female? You have to do some serious mental gymnastics in order to come to that conclusion with regard to anything I've said.

[–]sugartomyT1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]buntyisbest2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Damn, that's a lot to read. Better be worth it.

Most of it are quotes from your lengthy response, actually.

I don't care about western women, just women in general. Me and my partner are neither western nor single. I would love for all the men to flee away, more bitches for me. I'm just being realistic.

You do realize that your comments do paint a very negative picture of women in general, don't you? So far, your argument has basically been that all women, regardless of region or culture, just want to use men for money. This goes back to the point that the OP and other commentors made about women these days being selfish and lacking empathy.

90% of prostitutes in America would quit of they could. Plenty have loans or children to feed, therapy to pay for.

Did you talk to them personally or is this based out of a study? Because I've talked to a lot of prostitutes even before I started sleeping with them last year. I've been a vocal advocate of legalizing prostitution since my teen years because it helps protect women while also helping lonely, touch-starved men gain some affection, even if its pretentious. This required a lot of research and studying on my part.

[–]sugartomyT1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]sugartomyT1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

BTW, you must have heard about Germany, right? Prostitution is legal there. Brothels on almost every street. You know what is Germany called? The pimping Hotspot. Since it's legal there, pimps bring girls from all over to Germany. It has fhe highest human trafficking Rate. I hope you and (hold on, let me play a song on the world's tiniest violin) touch starved men who decide that paid rape is an option, never get to feel the touch of another person again. You didn't study shit. You don't care. You care more about your own sexual satisfaction instead of the safety of actual, real people. The demand will always be too high, and there will always be too little women willing to deal with it. Ever wondered why people never traffick accountant, or engineers or writers? People actually wanna do those. Fucking crusty men tho? Is prostitution really consensual if the exchange wouldn't have happened if the seller would have had other choices? Is it consensual when the other option is starvation?

Even if all prostitution would lead to just 1 woman a year being trafficked, it wouldn't matter. Human life and safety is way more important than anyone's sexual gratification. Pick up an erotic novel on your way home from work and coom away. We don't need to risk someone's health, life or sanity so people can have a better orgasm.

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Most of it just has to do with the fact that I spent a decade alone and now, I understand what financial independence requires and also, I have seen how weakly committed a lot of other communists really are.

I went into public service (healthcare in a country with socialized medicine), I donate a shitload of my money, and I have plans to work with D w/o B. All of this is praxis. It's my ideas of human equality and labour justice put into practice. I am a firey union tamale and I take great care to understand LGBT+, racial issues, and yes feminism too.

But like I said, I get financial independence now. I realize that the world is mostly driven by what other people want, not what is right, and what other people want can be downright terrifying. I know being a stubborn idealogue is a lot more about padding one's own ego, and pragmatism is far more useful in real life, and ultimately how almost every decision goes anyway. The right thing will never be done when the easier thing is wrong.

Ultimately, I lost faith in other people. I don't believe humanity is really ready for communism. My own behaviour supports this: when the benefits for myself became completely invisible and I was pouring out money and effort to ideology without any return for myself, I got bitter. I told myself I shouldn't. I did anyway. I'm human.

[–]Tasty-Document28081 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And to clarify, no, I don't think women should have their reproductive rights stripped away, and I also don't think women should be silenced and kept from expressing opinion.

I DO think that a lot of what we talk about today, like "microaggressions", is largely proliferated horseshit. I've been accused of racist microaggressions because I didn't greet a POC precisely the way I greeted someone else, once. By an observer, who had minimal idea what kind of relationship I had with either person. That was ridiculous.

Another example is how transgender folk are often pushing their behaviours onto their children. This is, imo, supremely fucked up, and all of it is in pursuit of their trauma of having been denied gender affirming care in youth. I understand their feelings, but yes, I need your biological sex in order to save your life.

Most of these things won't last, but 8 years ago I might have accepted support for transgender folk uncritically, and that is no longer the case. Same when women make public statements. This Jonah Hill thing is a great example - the dude was a shitty bf and got dumped for it, and people want to compare him to a predatory rapist?

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[–]flumberbuss -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Hang on, dating (and mating) are not fundamentally different than all other social issues. You picked food, which is not zero sum. However, status in general is a social issue that is more comparable, and it gets treated very differently when it doesn’t concern male issues with dating. Take admissions to college, or hiring at jobs, or just basic respect and social status. All of these are commonly treated as social problems and those on the short end of the stick are seen as victims of circumstance much more than men who don’t have the skills to find a compatible woman who wants them. There is a double standard here for some nontrivial chunk of people.

Rather than try to argue there isn’t, probably makes more sense to explore it. It is also fair to explore mirror-image hypocrisies from people who blame society or other people for chronic relationship failures, but demand that others blame themselves for chronic employment failures.

[–]bottleblankConscientious Objector 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Take admissions to college, or hiring at jobs, or just basic respect and social status. All of these are commonly treated as social problems and those on the short end of the stick are seen as victims of circumstance much more than men who don’t have the skills to find a compatible woman who wants them.

Ah, but notice, who are those things typically spoken about as being a problem for, most of all?

Women.

Not enough women in college (even though they now out-attend men), not enough women being hired into jobs considered to be lucrative, high-profile, and commanding of respect, and women not being treated with the respect and care and safety they "deserve".

That's not to say housing, employment, education, and so on aren't sometimes (or even often) spoken about in general terms, but even those things we agree are becoming very very difficult to get within society are then often taken one step further and considered women's issues, when the discussion starts turning to demographics and who needs more help with them.

Even in those issues we turn a blind eye to the troubles of men, despite men still being expected to be the providers, to out-compete not only other men but other women too (even in the face of affirmative action), to achieve all of these things effortlessly off their own back, and then hand the proceeds of their labours to women. If men are unwilling or unable to do that, well, I guess institutions will.

Rather than help us to support women, they'd apparently prefer to just tell us to fuck off, like the disposable chumps we apparently are, instead of helping to build us back up so we can and are willing to provide, in this changing, challenging world.

No, that's too much, we can't be helping men, we'd rather just toss them on the bonfire and let them suffer in the flames than actually make an effort to try and restore any kind of harmony. Even if, ultimately, it's beneficial to women to have more healthy, capable men, who aren't stuck wallowing in pits of despair with no hope, no experience, no energy, and no future.

How much do they think we've got left in the tank to care about women's issues once we've been beaten into a hole in the ground, with society's boot on our heads, and told it's our fault we're not climbing out of it? We're spending it all trying not to be dead.

[–]flumberbuss 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]operation-spot 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm saying that they're fundamentally different because a relationship requires effort and commitment on both sides and because there is no one size fits most model since everyone is unique and has their own history and trauma.

I love comparing dating to employment and the job market so I'm totally with you on this analogy. I don't agree with the shaming people who are not in relationships receive because we need to acknowledge that there are market forces at play.

I don't think it would be wrong to say men are a victim of our social landscape but as with every economic system, someone has to loose. Loosing should not mean that no one ever cares about you and you die alone, but that you did not end up in a relationship.

As a society I think we need to stop shaming people so the same should apply to dating and relationships.

[–]flumberbuss 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m confused, are you saying dating is fundamentally different or that it is comparable to social issues like employment or school admissions? There are winners and losers in all these, inevitably, and in all cases the successful relationship requires effort. There isn’t a one size fits all model in applying for jobs or getting promoted any more than there is one for wooing a spouse.

Part of me wants to agree with you that we shouldn’t shame the failures/losers. I guess I do agree that “shame” is largely cruel without being helpful. This applies to people who don’t do well in school and fail to get into a good college, or fail to get a good job, just as for those who fail to find a loving, giving, attractive spouse. However, if people entirely place the blame outside themselves, that isn’t helpful either.

My own view for all these topics is that when you look at yourself, as much as you can manage it, take the perspective of responsibility. It is up to me and no one else that I succeed. When it comes to others you directly interact with, also hold them accountable wherever it doesn’t seem fruitless to do so, and show either empathy or strictness about it depending on your assessment of what motivates them. BUT when it comes to society in general, then think more in terms of societal factors, and look for policies that can change those societal factors. Especially for any social issues that have gotten worse, meaning some other recent social change is the cause.

The worst person is the one who insists on seeing social factors as to blame in their own case, but insists on seeing others as acting of their own free will and to blame for things that go wrong.

[–]sugartomyTwanna be victorian boytoy 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]flumberbuss 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The comparison on education is not with having access to some education, but with getting into a competitive college. Inevitably there is a zero sum element to that. Same thing for jobs. I meant getting a good job that pays well. I’m talking about the kind of thing that people think affirmative action applies to. Affirmative action isn’t for getting jobs at McDonalds or getting into the community college. It is for getting employed at good union jobs, or working at Google, or getting into an Ivy League school. Affirmative action applies when something is zero sum: a winner requires a loser, and when you think that social factors are responsible for the winners and losers rather than personal choices that people are responsible for.

The comparison with relationships then is when you have winners and losers, do you equally see it as the result of social (or biological) factors, or as the result of poor personal choices that one is responsible for?

[–]operation-spot1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]sugartomyTwanna be victorian boytoy 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Thats because it's the truth...?

You can't really control the economic state of your country, a lot of people have issues with housing due to external factors.

Well all know the homelessness problem in the USA. It is largely due to a shitty economic environment. People literally want to work but can't find someone to hire them, they would rather abuse, overwork and underpay their already tired employees. Then rich ass mofos will buy every piece if real estate and rent it out, for pAsSivE iNcomE, and place the rent at ridiculously high levels, while people don't have a place to sleep.

Some of them are drug addicts, mainly painkillers. You never stop in your tracks to wonder why? The medical system is a joke, if someone hits you with their car your life is practically over. The bills are nauseating, they probably preacribe you some expensive ass painkillers that you have to take or you will feel like ripping your head of. Very little jobs have good medical leave policies, insurance is also dogshit aside from being expensive, so you do cheap heroin instead of oxys prescribes from your doctor. The addiction centers are also a joke.

Dating though? If out of 4 billion people no one likes you, my God, it has to be a you fucking problem.

[–]josh9xRed Pill Man 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

True but there are still factors out of your control when dating. If you're not very good looking, awkward, autistic, or high inhibition, you'll have a very hard time, although you can do something to balance it out. Besides, the dating pool is most likely limited to your home town except if you're a passport bro.

For economic situation, the same applies but to a different extent. Those who don't have any skills to begin or are too poor to do so with obviously will wind up with nothing (although these are a minority). But those who learn a trade or get educated usually end up finding some job, even if it isn't the best. Sure there are more factors outside one's control, but there are generally some things most people can do.

Point is, both situations are influenced by a combination of controllable and uncontrollable factors, although to different extents.

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Here's a take I'm surprised I haven't been seeing more: the US population after boomers has a significant male surplus, whereas boomers have long had a significant female surplus. What changed? The Vietnam draft culled a lot of young men from the generation, which was the norm for previous generations. Our sustained relative peace has had the unpleasant side effect of increasing the competition among young men to find a partner.

That said, the completely deranged conclusion to take away from this would be that we need to send more men off to war so those of us lucky enough to stay alive have an easier time getting with women. We should be grateful overall while still recognizing that solving one problem often comes with new smaller problems.

There are also many other factors reinforcing our newer problem like viagra making older men sexually viable and birth control ironically reducing the sex drives of many women.

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I do appreciate that you are proposing a concrete idea.

People have a negative reaction because this is often brought up in the context of “lonely men are dangerous to society”. It comes off like a threat.

If I had a suggestion for an idea to implement, it would be some incentive for boys/men to pursue a hobby. This will get downvoted but video gaming, especially the amount some guys do, is a waste of time. Save it for when you’re old. Live your life now. Get good at something. Learn an instrument and join a band. Join a painting class. Join a group fitness program. Too many of my guy friends play four hours of video games a day. Imagine if they spent half that time pursuing a hobby over their life. They would be skilled at something. Having a high k/d in Warzone is only going to impress the boys.

[–]Particular_Trade6308 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

I have proposed ideas before, they get downvoted/called incel ideas because they impose a cost on women. Just in this thread someone asked “do women get the money too,” like no one will accept a solution that is targeted at men because, again, no one thinks single men as a group need or deserve help getting partners.

On an old account I proposed a govt program, totally opt-in, that gave women a hormonal pill that increased libido and was contraceptive at the same time. The idea was to fix the supply/demand imbalance in dating market, there are too many thirsty simpy men. My proposal met every ethical standard. Fully opt in, women would be paid to take it and could stop at any time, the drug would be tested via the FDA and monitored, etc. Got downvoted/flamed/reported for “drugging women” which is hilarious since govt funded “drugging of women” already exists at planned parenthood.

The issue isn’t a lack of solutions, humans are creative. Other countries have tried giving a straight cash bonus for having a kid, to incentivize couples. Japanese government made their own dating app to get away from superficial filtering. There are infinite solutions. But these are off limits because women will not tolerate any inconvenience no matter how slight, and politically “I want to help neckbeards get a girlfriend” is a total dead end, you can sooner run as a Nazi than as an incel sympathizer.

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[–]BCRE8TVEPurple Pill Man 47 points48 points49 points 3 years ago* (17 children) | Copy Link

You misunderstand. Every failure men face is always placed at their feet as some personal or moral failing of that man. Because it's a man's world, it's a patriarchy, and male privilege, men cannot ever be oppressed or face any systemic barriers whatsoever so clearly it is always men's fault when they do not pull themselves up by their bootstraps and it is therefore always appropriate to blame men for anything and everything.

I contrast women are poor helpless victims who can't help themselves, so whenever they face any problem it is a systemic issue, and it is society's responsibility (especially men's) to bend over backwards and solve those problems for the poor women.

When men face issues they can u fuck themselves on their own, and they're not entitled to empathy, sympathy, or help.

Gotta love that male privilege.

[–]Vapelord420XXXD 22 points23 points24 points 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]BCRE8TVEPurple Pill Man 21 points22 points23 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Oh I completely agree, because it means men are failing in their gendered roles of being the go-getter provider and protector who can provide the stable foundation for a family.

Women have largely been emancipated from their gender roles, women are no longer required to stay home, women can now vote like men, work like men, wear pants like men, and do everything men can. Women can be stay at home moms, equal partners, boss babes, women can also not be moms at all if they so wish.

But if ever a man fails to perform his role or fails to get the approval of a female partner, he's defective, there's something wrong with him, and he's rejected.

I agree with you for sure, it's just that this rejection basically cuts down to the core, "you're not a real man if you fail to get female attention".

Despite all the talk of patriarchy and female oppression, this is actually a tool that women wield and use to basically ostracize men they don't like, don't want, and/or men who are not useful to women.

[–]Aimeereddit123 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]BCRE8TVE3 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don’t think women are oppressed

Certainly not in the west, but apparently feminism didn't get the memo.

but would you WANT that traditional woman?

Traditional, non-traditional, breadwinner, egalitarian, honestly I'd just be happy to have a woman who loves me as much as I'd love her.

I’m traditional stay at home, and my husband pays for absolutely everything. I in turn love, support, and pamper him. Do men today really want that??

Many do, yes. The love, support, and pamper especially, but I don't mind being the stay at home house husband nor do I mind if we both make as much and pamper one another. At the end of the day, whatever role the wife fulfills, I expect most men just want a partner to stick by their side, to have their back, and who will love them.

Men's standards are literally that low.

That and I mean, preferably she wouldn't be obese or ugly.

All I read is how they move girls in and expect them to rent share, and split all bills 50/50. I gotta say, I’d just stay single as well. That’s a roommate situation to me.

The problem is that so many women want all the benefits of being a traditional wife without being traditional themselves, and demanding equality. Men responded with "fine, you want equality, we'll have equality" and then share everything 50/50, because that's how equality is.

Many women are mad at men because that's not the kind of equality they wanted, they wanted the kind of equality where they got to pick and choose if they wanted the traditional equality or the modern equality.

The end result is a complete mess, there is no script for dating, it's extremely difficult for guys, and every couple has to write their own script for how to have a relationship from the ground up. It's work and while it absolutely can provide great relationships, many women just expect to be able to have a relationship without putting in too much work (traditional benefits), and they don't like that thy're expected to work and give as much as guys do.

But hey, that's equality, that's what women wanted. Feminism pit women against men and men against women. It did address a lot of serious issues women faces, but those issues are largely resolved, and yet it still paints men as the oppressors.

I hope we can come together and care for one another and actually solve all the issues without worrying whether the victims have a penis or not, but that's not what feminism wants, so it seems like for the rift between men and women to be mended, feminism either has to dtone it down a whole lot, or get lost.

[–]Aimeereddit1231 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BCRE8TVE3 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

People don't agree, but there is a lot of comfort and safety in following an established gender role. The boundaries are well defined, you know what you have to do and what is expected of you, and you don't have to worry about anything outside of that. This applies to men and women. In essence the work of establishing boundaries and roles has already been done.

In contrast many of the more egalitarian relationships have no strong basis to base themselves off of and have to negotiate and renegotiate chores, tasks, and roles frequently, on top of actually having to deal with all the regular relationship and living together stuff.

Traditional isn't for everyone, at the end of the day it's about finding what is the best fit for the person. Ironic that feminism seems to hate the traditional stay at home wife model so much, despite how they say it's empowering for women to make their own choices. Apparently it's only empowering when women make the choices feminism wants them to make...

I am curious, how exactly does being in a traditional setting make you softer, happier, sex positive, high libido, etc? I don't really understand that change, it seems to me a bit like there's a switch that is flipped, and I don't understand why that switch is there in the first place, what flips it, and how it feels differently when the switch is flipped on or off. Would you mind helping me understand your experiences?

[–]Aimeereddit1231 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BCRE8TVE2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's certainly fair. Part of me is kind of frustrated to think that the "being a shell of who they are" and being fried out from work schedules, not keeping up appearances and health, and no time for friends, is just the "expected normal state" for men, whereas for women it's a tragic thing that kills their sex drive, but men are still expected to perform whenever she wants him to.

:/

Sucks for everyone involved for sure though. We definitely need to address a lot of issues in society. I just wish more people would realize that if we had more money and a culture less focused on capitalism and consumerisnm, we'd ave more time to ourselves, for our families, and for our partners.

Dividing ourselves on gender lines is basic divide and conquer, men and women are so busy being frustrated at one another than neither sees how the rich profit and are stealing everyone's time and money.

Women need consistent personal and relaxation time to stay in the headspace for sex.

This might be one of the biggest differences between men and women honestly, in that it takes a lot to detract a man from sex once he's on track to getting some. Women's desire seems so arbitrary, mysterious, and fleeting to men. On that front we don't understand y'all at all :p

[–]Aimeereddit1231 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are awesome and open, and sincerely looking for answers. You already have amazing relationship qualities. Let me just use myself as an example, since forums don’t like generalizations. I have the same strong sex drive as my husband. I’m visually aroused, whereas people like to say women are not. I have spontaneous sexual desire. I don’t have to be wined and dined and roped into it. The difference between my husband and myself is that the way I feel about my OWN self and my body and my looks, matter much more to my sexual desire, or lack thereof. Meaning, if I’ve been going and going nonstop calendar for a month, and have not been able to hit the gym, get my hair highlighted, my nails done….if I feel like I look strung out, it’s very hard for me to open up sexually - even though I’m really horny, and really want to! Women are EXTREMELY hard on themselves, and if they can’t have time and money to put in on their self-care, they become too self-conscious for sex. Let’s face it, more importance throughout history has been put on female appearance. This isn’t a bad thing, unless the woman doesn’t have the time or money to do it. When a woman is stressed and frazzled, sex is the first to go. They aren’t going to slack at their jobs. They aren’t going to stop providing for their children. They are going to pause on sex.

[–]BCRE8TVE2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Aww thank you! I am happy that you are able to see that, I've been more often than not innundated with rude dismissals and met with hostility unfortunately.

I’m visually aroused, whereas people like to say women are not.

I'm actually of the opinion that women are also visually aroused, it's just that admitting to it makes women seem shallow. Being visually aroused for most boils down to the man being tall, handsome, and masculine, features most men cannot control and that it's "shallow" to want, so they deny they're visually aroused despite the fact that they are to not seem shallow.

I have spontaneous sexual desire. I don’t have to be wined and dined and roped into it.

I'm of the opinion women do have spontaneous sexual desire, my ex used to get aroused at work or at random times and tell me, but then when she'd get home that desire was lost. I suspect many women believe their arousal is sparked by the wining and dining, but I think the wining and dining just makes them feel good and feel wanted, which facilitates sex but doesn't cause arousal. Plus, they can get a ton of benefits by demanding to be wined and dined in exchange for the possibility of sex, but nobody will admit to it because again it makes women seem shallow.

The difference between my husband and myself is that the way I feel about my OWN self and my body and my looks, matter much more to my sexual desire, or lack thereof.

I can completely see that and it matches a lot with what I've experienced and heard as well. Women are hard on themselves, many are very insecure, and while men's libido tends to keep going when it's started, for women sexual arousal is both harder to start and easier to douse. Men generally don't care if the house isn't clean, but it feels like women's arousal can drop to 0 if they see a full garbage the day after they asked their partner to empty it. I may be wrong, but it feels like it can go from roaring "take me" to just flat-out "ewww no don't touch me" in 0.5 seconds flat. What you say applies to women and how they feel about their own body and appearance, I think it also extends to other ways they feel they may be judged too.

Let’s face it, more importance throughout history has been put on female appearance. This isn’t a bad thing, unless the woman doesn’t have the time or money to do it.

Completely agree, and I also agree that there is an unhealthy (and commercial) focus on women that just makes it even harder for everyone involved. Women can feel good about their appearance, but there's a literal multi-billion dollar industry that directly profits off of women feeling insecure and not feminine enough, and that's very hard to combat. Hard to break out of that mould when women have been steeped in it literally since birth.

When a woman is stressed and frazzled, sex is the first to go. They aren’t going to slack at their jobs. They aren’t going to stop providing for their children. They are going to pause on sex.

That's interesting, and also a difference between men and women. I may be wrong but I suspect for men self-care is the first to go, not sex, and the job/providing is going to be one of the last things to go.

It does match up a lot with all the women saying they're stressed and overworked. I hope it's not a thing in general, but with my mother in particular she'll be very stressed, while simultaneously believing she is not stressed, and won't ask for help, while also unconsciously expecting help. In my own relationship and from relationships of friends, it feels like women often get lost in their own stress and do things out of frustration like refusing men's help, that ends up leading to even more stress. Meanwhile men want to help reduce women's level of stress, but fail at it and get lambasted for trying and failing by the women who unconsciously or not thwart men's attempt at removing stress.

Not saying men are saints who never add stress to women, we absolutely can, just this pattern of women worsening their own stress is something I've noticed somewhat repeatedly, and also women's expectation (stated or unconscious) that men be their stable stoic emotional rock to manage all that for her so she can calm down.

It's a really complicated social dynamic, to have to work through all of that. Traditional marriages avoid a lot of that stress and frustration because the work has already been done and the roles are clearly defined.

[–]Aimeereddit1231 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BCRE8TVE2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well damn, I need to mark this day on the calendar! 3 days ago I figured out how women think, hallelujah! :p

I seriously did not expect you or anyone to agree with me, I was throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Side note - if a woman loses her libido over a full trash can, she never had much to begin with. That’s not quite the same as her feeling unsexy in her body…that’s more an excuse from a low libido woman looking for excuses

Or possibly a woman who is not attracted to the man, potentially because she doesn't understand how her own libido works and/or what she is actually attracted to.

But yeah good point. Still feels like women's libido is far easier to "lose" than for a guy. We tend to "lose" interest in it after we've climaxed, not before unless it's painful or more frustrating than arousing.

[–]Aimeereddit1231 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BCRE8TVE1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Completely agree with you on the favourite toy part, and the worst part is that this, like it or not, is emotional abuse. It's holding intimacy and arousal hostage. If it was the other way around and a man would refuse to kiss, cuddle, or hug a woman unless she did what he wanted, he'd be called horrible and an abuser in an instant, but for some reason we decided as a society that women can get away completely scott-free with this kind of emotional abuse and manipulation of men.

so in those wive’s heads - they win!

That's the problem. They think they're winning, because they're turning it into a competition between them, and treating their partner like an adversary.

There's nothing wrong with turning a man down because she just genuinely does not feel like having sex, but using it as a weapon against him is exactly that, using a weapon to harm their partner, the person they are supposed to protect and cherish above all.

These women tend to have a low estimation of sex in the first place, so it’s their first to shut down when mad at hubs.

And yet, for some reason, society lets women get away with this, but if a man withdraws sex from his wife, then he's a terrible husband.

I hate those double standards.

I hear you on the low libido thing, but the sad truth is also that men's libido tends to remain consistent throughout the relationship, and it's women who tend to lose interest in sex over time.

[–]Aimeereddit1231 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BCRE8TVE1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

, maybe those women that pull sex is because the sex card is literally the only negotiating card they have?

If they truly think that is the only negotiating card they have, then they never had the trust of their partner and never tried to find anything beyond that.

It's the equivalent of a husband saying that if he can't get his wife to agree with him verbally, then the only resort he has is to beat her up.

It's laziness, short-sighted, and causes harm to the relationship and makes everything worse.

I’m sure there are women that look around hopeless and think, ‘this is literally all I’ve got that I can control, and that he actually cares about.’

That's true, but if sex is the only thing the husband cares about, and the woman has literally no other choices, the relationship is over already and they should have been divorced long ago.

Once sex is a weapon or a negotiation tool, the marriage is dead anyway.

Completely agree.

And yet, women are often quick to use sex as a negotiation tool, and it's seen as perfectly normal and acceptable in society. This is killing marriages, but for some reason nobody cares or notices, and when men complain about it they get berated and told to just man up and deal with it.

[–]Aimeereddit1231 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BCRE8TVE1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you honestly. It feels incredibly validating to have someone agree, and makes me feel like I'm not crazy haha. I'm kind of always putting myself in debate with people who have the opposing view, but when someone agrees it's like a breath of fresh air.

If anyone is deliberately withholding anything from their partner, that's manipulation at best and abuse at worst. Man or woman, we ought to be working together with our partner so both have their desires satisfied as best they can. There's a ton of things I know men do that they absolutely do not care about or actively dislike, but they do it anyways because they know it makes her happy.

I hope I'm not just too trapped in my own echo chamber, but I'm honestly kind of struggling to find anything like that, that women do for men. I think it would be too much to tell women to "just have sex with him if it makes him happy" but honestly if we could push women along those lines more (as a reward to good partners, not bad partners), I think it would do a world of good.

[–]Aimeereddit1231 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BCRE8TVE1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I absolutely agree that hate should be doled out sparingly. If anything hate should be doled out towards hateful behaviour and the people who behave that way at that time, rather than hating indiscriminately every member of a group.

Love and love making should be given easily and freely.

I agree. It's unfortunate however that for men and women both, there are many who would just take and take love without giving any in return. That's a common struggle we should use to unite the good men and women against the bad men and women, not to divide men vs women however.

I understand the orgasm gap between men and women, and what that entails, but women need to speak up and show their partners exactly what they need to fill the gap - not just shut down sexually.

Completely agree. I'm not going to say the orgasm gap is women's fault, because that is just reducing it way too much to be accurate, but women are not powerless to address the orgasm gap.

I may be wrong, but it seems men are far more willing to be sexually adventurous, to try things out, and to teach women what they like, than women do. The impression I get is that women just expect men to be good, and would rather more to the next man in the hope the next guy is better, or just suffer unsatisfying sex without actually addressing the situation properly.

Not all women of course, and many women could have issues doing that because they don't understand their own sexuality and what actually is attractive/makes them feel desired and desireable, but still, it's not some intractable problem where men just need to "step up and do better".

Love should be doled out easily indeed. It just feels frustrating that the reality sounds like men have to work to earn that love, all the while being told they're not entitled to it, facing an almost aggressively uncaring attitude from women as a whole, being basically emotionally starved their whole life, then gaslit into believing they already get more than enough love from women already and to just be grateful women aren't openly hateful.

It's very frustrating.

[–]PrinceoftheRoses 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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Women pay taxes too. Women work too (some of it paid, some of it unpaid labor).

Dating isn't a possession. Dating involves another consenting person.

Houses are object with no feelings.

Healthcare already has (though eroding) bodily autonomy built into it as well. You do have to render aid, you don't have to use your own body to do so (or shouldn't).

Dating isn't necessary to live a fulfilling, healthy happy life.

98% of people date well before retirement age (US), most of them in long-term relationships at various points in their lives, some marriage, or live-in bf/gf.

You could socialize sex to an extent (not-for-profit, unionized brothels with government regulation and good pay and benefits)... but ultimately it still takes two consenting adults to agree to it. You can't socialize love, romance, desire, feelings...and if you could that would be draconian nonsense.

[–]caption291 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Exchanging possessions involves another consenting person too???

Hah, I wish, we'd have a lot less wealth disparity.

If you're talking about housing though, something like government housing would be owned by people as a whole.

And a mutually-beneficial societal service is not a person's body or dating interest.

Trying to get people to date who they don't want is a societal detriment not a societal advancement.... and even if it were proven to be so, their right to not participate in an optional romantic or sexual connection is paramount. Not sure how to be more clear here that the right to communal property doesn't make a human property.

I'm pretty sure the people who own houses have feelings and threatening to take their houses away from them might have very real consequences on their bodies.

Who said anything about taking someone's house that they live in... housing in this sense would refer to houses that don't belong to anyone yet, or houses that are purchased with consent from the previous owner who consents to give them up for a monetary contract agreeable to them.

Have you seriously seen in an argument about housing that it means kicking people out of the house they live in? No it's about building more properties owned by the people as a whole to house the unhoused. Or buying unused properties from other people and then the new ownership is a program to house people.

Do you feel the draft is draconian nonsense?

Absolutely. (Why do they always send the poor et cetera)

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Housing is necessary to survive and is an inanimate object.

A house isn't a person and doesn't need to consent.

Education as a concept and a system isn't a person.

Healthcare is also about bodily autonomy. A dad can't be forced to donate marrow to their dying toddler, even if that's the only way that toddler will survive.

Dating isn't a right or necessary for a happy, healthy, enriching life... most of those other things are.

One person's freedom and rights ends where another begins.

You can smoke a cigarette which destroys your lungs and causes cancer, that freedom stops where someone else's lungs begin (hence second-hand smoking laws, smoking being outlawed in certain spaces).

You can't socialize dating because desire and autonomy exist and are important.

However, if you can't get laid, you must be an antisocial incel?

Getting laid involves another person... Not everyone who doesn't have sex is antisocial (actually antisocial personality isn't that common). Not everyone who doesn't have sex is an incel (even if you're looking at the original definition of the term).

Having reliable housing isn't inevitable. Dating, statistically for those who want it.. is, eventually.

Another person isn't a housing unit. 98% of people (US) date, have sex, and have the type of relationship they want (some choose to just be perpetual bachelors/bachelorettes without a long-term companion, some choose to just have the occasional live-in bf/gf but not marry, some choose to marry, et cetera) by the time they are a couple decades out from retirement age.

If 98% had enough housing to survive and live a happy healthy life until a few decades for retirement age and then had an unnecessary to life and health but still fun and wonderful add ons to that home or got to move into a bigger home with more luxurious amenities it still wouldn't be a great analogy since a relationship isn't a possession or something you own... it's a collaboration between consenting parties.

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I am a natural introvert, shy, quiet, probably on the spectrum. So to be blunt interacting with women is a nightmare for me, especially since my natural personally type simply isn't allowed when you look like me. Quite guy only works for tall and handsome.

So to get any women to spend time with me, I have to override my natural personality type, while at the same time remaining interesting enough to hold her attention and not step over the creep line. Which is set very high for me because with my face and looks. Women want me to f**k up socially and give them an excuse to walk away, without feeling shallow.

Women call me socially inept but I would love to see them attempt to do what I have to do. It is like giving a one man standup show, to the world's most hostile audience, while having to adhere to harsh censorship rules. When you have no real comic talent and would prefer to frankly do anything else.

I doubt most women, living life on the easy setting, would be able to do it.

[–]ChiBron86 41 points42 points43 points 3 years ago* (45 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheOffice_AccountTilting at windmills 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's crazy to me that dating apps seem to be the only way some people try to find partners anymore. Do people not have social groups anymore??

As someone in the dating market who doesn't use apps, I can tell you that things are much tougher in the social scene. I have many women friends who date exclusively online because they understand the rules of the game there, and can get their friends to vet their text replies (or heck, sometimes write it for them). And if things don't work out, whoopsies, I'll just pick one of the 50 others in my inbox. IRL, many young women don't really know how to respond when a guy flirts with them, or tries to engage socially. Lol, it's funny but also kinda sad.

So women have it easier in terms of way more options online, but at the same time, they are also more dissatisfied with these options. The guys they meet online - those dudes are held to a far higher standard, and the tiniest error on their part is a signal of "Oh, when someone shows you who they are, believe them!!". He was late for a date by 5 minutes, that means he doesn't prioritize you at all, so ghost him and move on to the next one.

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It's crazy to me that dating apps seem to be the only way some people try to find partners anymore.

They're not the only one they are just the #1 source of relationships and becoming even more common. For example in the US still 1 out of 4 relationships will begin through friends/family social connections and 1 out of 4 relationships will begin through academic/professional social connections at least until the end of the decade.

Online dating isn't for everyone, but it is for some people and considering most people get into relationships eventually and it's the #1 source for these, it's working for quite a few.

It's no different than the dance halls of old where it was considered inappropriate for a woman to approach a man so all she saw was his face and maybe heard one rumor about his personality (whether good or not) from a random school girl/school boy before putting his name down on her dance card. Before that people would send portraits, or be married off to some family before even seeing their face much less learning their personality.

I definitely am able to learn more about someone's personality through four minutes of reading a profile that is even partially filled out than 5 minutes of small talk at a loud bar.

But again just because online dating works for a lot of people and is the primary source for relationships doesn't mean it's the only way. Plenty of people still meet through friends, family, school, and work.

And you don't have to choose one or the other. If both work for you, use both. If only online dating works for you, do online dating primarily. If only organic meeting of dates works for you, do primarily organic dating.

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Haven't men's struggles on dating apps completely debunked the "bad personality" myth?

I mean you really don't even need any dating app data or anything. It's just that women are people just like men and have the same desires and capacity for "shallowness" in dating.

Like if what the liberal dating advice says about women is true then there would never be any woman getting with any man who has a bad personality. These "blue pill" people will say that women just know your true personality and reject you because of it then also say that women get with abusive men because abusers are good actors. But this is contradictory as we can all see women do not have psychic powers to see the "real" person on the inside and just see that the men they reject are all bad people.

For some reason these types think its the end of the world if we admit that women are humans who want to fuck hot people and most people are attracted to conventionally attractive people. It's really not that complicated but for some reason they think admitting women care just as much about looks would make them bad people or something and we can't ever have women be bad people.

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Personally…I think its economics and social policy.

More women graduating college than men means a group of women who will disdain the majority of men their age for their lack of formal education. Also you will never hear the politicians/reporters say “we need to get more men into college” its always “these young men are stupid, lazy, need to try harder!”.

The inflationary nature of our economy means that many people will have to work twice as hard as their ancestors did in order to earn half as much, nevermind retirement. It takes longer and longer to establish yourself as an independent man/woman with their own place, career, some spending cash.

And then there’s our labor policy which is tailor made to keep wages down and create competition for jobs. Outsourcing, offshoring, guest worker programs. The youth are getting shafted left and right.

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I agree with you, but it's also a cultural effect as well.

Men had to change how they view women and to stop putting barriers and doubting them from getting higher education and careers, and viewing all of it as normal and attractive.

Women haven't had to change at all, one bit. Largely they still expect their man to be the bread winner (or largely be within a few thousand if what she makes), they still expect men to be the ambitious one and have motivation and drive.

Largely women still expect men to be just as good as they were 20-50 years ago, relative to how women were that long ago, yet women now out pace men in the education system among many others.

Like, it's just a simple case of women wanting the cake and eat it too.

The sex inequality in higher education is worse now with women being ahead than it was in the 70s with men being ahead. They literally has government mandates do to how bad it was back then, but I haven't seen anything today.

[–]samantha802 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]anonymousUser1SHIFT 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

Why wouldn't a woman want her man to have ambition, motivation, and drive, if the woman possess those qualities?

Because lots of women don't possess those qualities and still waiting a man to. A hell of a lot of people (not just woman) well seek out people who have qualities they don't have and want.

If I have a well paying job, I expect my man to as well.

And this ideal is shared by many women, the issue is that there are only so many well paying jobs, or even the fact that men don't hold this ideal (of restricting a potential relationalship behind monetary).

The question is were does this notion come from. Like men don't really have it so how did women come up with the notion "well I did it so why can't they?(read is a Karrens voice)".

I am not expecting him to support me. I am expecting him to be an equal partner.

What this comment actually says to me is "I can't stomach the idea that I would have to provide even just a small fraction of financial support to my partner".

Like there is a different between having to support (pay for your partner) and them being completely financial independent but still just making less. Yet you wouldn't even accept the second guy.

You are acting like expecting men to be on the same level earnings wise and with life goals is this unreasonable expectation

If the goal is to have a healthy long term relationship, then yes having the expectations that your partner is earning a lot, as a position with high status, is 6 feet tall, has savings, sweeps you off your feet, owns property, has a higher level of education than you, is your physical type, is your mental type, is your emotional type. Even though probably don't have many, if any of these requirements, you probably have oh so many more of your own.

Your seemingly forgetting all the other requirements that you probably have for your partner, which adds up.

So I will ask you a few very seriously question.

I am not expecting him to support me. I am expecting him to be an equal partner.

If you are to be equals, does that mean your okay with him leaving you if you ever make less than "good money"?

You refuse to even consider the idea of having a partner that may need some financial support, so what about if you were to ever get pregnant and have a child. Would you be okay with your partner saying "you need to cover your own stuff, and if you need money you should go back to work as soon as possible"?

Like I'm fully aware if how incel like this sounds, which is why I'm saying it. It's the same notion that I get from you just with the sexs reversed.

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Women tend to be concerned with both looks and achievement and are pretty intractable on both. I've seen guys absolutely fawn over absolute whales of women but I've never seen that happen with women to men. "Attractive" is a factor for men but it's a lot more flexible than it is for women. On dating apps if you give women a height filter they filter out over 90% of the population by default. Plus they have stringent financial requirements. It's not enough to be stable and self sufficient, if you earn less than she does it's a point against you. I make 70k in a small town and live in luxury, but a woman making 80k in LA where she can't even afford a house would look at me and turn up her nose.

Meanwhile I'd be perfectly happy dating a woman that makes 45k in my area as long as she wasn't in massive debt.

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[–]JonMyMon 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends on what you mean by “socially inept”.

They might actually be introspective and interesting in an introverted way. But if they don’t have apparent, activating charisma, their style of socializing is going to handicap them. They’re casting a much much smaller net. I think men with natural social skills can absolutely do great with women. It’s a HUGE advantage. It’s just hard to get everyone on the same page about what “socially inept” actually means. Some people are going to interpret that as a pathetic, braindead, ghost of a man, and some people are going to grant that being social in the ways which attract women is actually a skill, a skill that can actually be quite difficult to develop. Women’s dating opportunities are not nearly as reliant on their social skills, so it’s easy for them to be dismissive of how difficult it can be if you don’t fit into the classic charisma mold.

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Not really. Because some women are attractive but the man might just not be in love with her. It doesn’t equate to her being out of his league per ce.

Besides a woman who jumps in the sack quickly obviously feels something for the guy. If she didn’t she wouldn’t have had sex with him. Men tend to play women and even lie to them so they don’t know any different than what they’re being shown.

If an attractive women is used to being pursued by top tier men even if it’s just ultimately for sex in the end, she won’t know different until because most of the men going for her and her suitors are attractive so she assumes that IS her league. And it probably is form a looks only stand point because men who have options don’t pursue average or ugly women. So she probably is in their league from a looks standpoint but maybe not in personality and character as much. Or plot twist, maybe she is in their league but the guy isn’t done “being a boy” or doesn’t love her even if he likes her. Too many variables.

We can’t blame the men either, I get you. But blaming the women won’t make them want you more, 🤡🤡

[–]AlastorSitri -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Men tend to play women and even lie to them so they don’t know any different than what they’re being shown.

So do women suddenly take none of the blame in being naive? This use to be solved in the past by people waiting till marriage to jump in the sack. Well I wouldn't advocate for that, the general purpose still applies in that the longer you wait, the less likely you are of being played, not repeating the same action of jumping in the sack immediately after meeting a top man.

As the saying goes "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

And it's no different for men when it comes to routing out gold diggers in search of a real relationship.

men who have options don’t pursue average or ugly women.

But blaming the women won’t make them want you more

I fucked women with bachelor degrees to literal crackheads. When it comes to sex, men don't care about financial status, they care about looks. Playing white knight won't make women want to fuck men either 😉

Even in terms of looking for a relationship, one of my favorite relationships involved me dating down and waiting 6 months for sex. This is imo how it should be done if you are going to go the route of dating a higher tier man.

[–]skon71 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I absolutely do think women should take the blame for being naive or just charge it to the game and level up. My point is really that men who don’t get women and are frustrated by this should also spend less time blaming the women and realize too that it’s not just their fault Either, Men have a Stake in this too.

my point is that these women technically are in the top man’s league because they’re physically attractive and men value that and place more value on that when ultimately they should place value on other things also. Plus a top man has too many options, so if a girl wants him and he wants her, she might end up sharing him or even worst loosing him to another girl who is trying to Get his attention. So the reality is, she is discarded and a newer women replaces her or she leaves the guy for cheating etc. Because of this……. She was never really out of his league, it’s just that man has options and she wants him all to herself.

Also you didn’t even address the very point you were trying to rebuttal about blaming women and how that won’t make them want to fuck you or be with you. Playing white knight has nothing to do with it, I’m not saying not to spit game. You can do all that but at the same time not lead them on. I realize sometimes you have to play a women because being honest won’t work, but I never said you had to play white knight either lol

Well if men care about looks then that crackhead was obviously hot to you. How does socio economic status and education have to do with looks? You were trying to rebuttal me on men not dating down in looks. I think men will “sleep with” most women and I think they will put some low level Effort into getting them into the sack but I don’t think they will actively Pursue a ugly Women with rigor especially if she isn’t all they keen on sleeping with him. if the man doesn’t find them that hot and has the option to pick and choose, he will prob give up and move to someone more attractive if she isn’t easy enough lol

[–]AlastorSitri1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Again, why? Women are the gatekeepers to sex, that is already well established. Women are the ones ultimately making the decision to have sex without taking the proper steps in finding out if the feelings are genuine or not.

Again, you wouldn't blame the 3rd party for cheating nearly as much as the spouse that made the stupid decision. Making bad decisions has forever been the fault of the decision maker, relationships are no different.

That still sounds like a her problem and you are making an excuse for the behaviour. If a woman feels she needs to share "her" man in order to "keep" him, then she isn't in his league to begin with, and the whole story is just a cope to justify this behaviour. High value women don't put up with that sort of shit, and likewise lower value men wouldn't request it.

Blaming women is, I'm sorry, absolutely what needs to happen if they are constantly getting burned by top tier men. Nobody has any problems blaming men for their flaws, yet women's modern day decision making in the dating market is a line that shouldn't be crossed? Give me a break. Women need to be taught to date within their league if they want to avoid being played and a happier life. Likewise if a woman is constantly being played after exclusively pursuing top tier men, maybe she should stop and ask themselves "Am I the problem? Maybe I should lower my standards"

if the man doesn’t find them that hot and has the option to pick and choose, he will prob give up and move to someone more attractive

So the solution is for ugly women to just open their legs and get played? I have fucked a few ugly women in my time cause it was worth the effort involved. How is that my fault?

But you are absolutely right, if I only seen her for sex (I did) and she had waited, I would have moved on and she would have hopefully found herself someone to be happy with in her own crackhead league, which is EXACTLY how it should be.

Likewise, the dream girl I dated down for was absolutely, to me, worth the 6 month wait for sex, which again is exactly how it should be.

[–]skon71 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I agree that HVW don’t tolerating men cheating and don’t like sharing men but that’s exactly what the red pill preaches: so I’m going off that.

I think you’re spinning everything Im saying because Im actually agreeing with you. Typically when I encounter somebody of this caliber on Reddit it means they’re looking for anything and anyone to argue with because they’re bored and pathetic,

Im not saying to blame the men at all, it’s just a factor in how some women mate and they don’t always know better. Until they do. Yes if it happens more often then the women should really evaluate her dating life and herself. But men and women are inter dynamic so if the men are not settling down either are the women. And once you unlock one stage of the dating game as a woman you aren’t going to lower the bar and date a man who is less experienced than you

Literally nowhere did I say or even imply that ugly women should be easy and open their legs, that was all you who spin that

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I fully agree with that, if by 'good' or 'bad' you mean morally good or bad.

I mean it in every sense of good and bad other than them being traits that women find attractive and unattractive.

Yes, because such traits in women are seen as highly unattractive. What men want in women and what women want in men is very different and sometimes diametrically opposite. The traits I mentioned are attractive in men, not women.

Yes, it's based on arbitrary personal preferences of what women find unattractive and attractive like facial beauty might be. But if you try to say that those personality traits are more than just arbitrary dating preferences, if you're going to say that it affects someone's worth, character or value, then anything you say about those traits would apply to women twofold.

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Holy shit, give me a break. "Men finally have to add value outside of having a job." "They can't handle doing the things women have always done for their partners/families" What kind of broken/dysfunctional homes did most of you people come from?

Men were always expected to be more than breadwinners. Men are usually expected to take on roles that require leadership, handiness, and protection even to this day. A healthy relationship and marriage is one where the man and woman complement each other's abilities and roles, they both recognize and respect each other's personalities. If the woman is good at something the family turns to her and if the man is good at something the family turns to him. When crises arise both people pull each other depending on their unique skills.

Just because women today are equals in terms of education, income, and assets it doesn't mean they're special. Relationships are about building and maintaining a foundation NOT checking off a list of "values" to be considered worthy in the presence of a woman.

[–]concretecannonball 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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Men were expected to be the breadwinners because for the vast majority of human history, women were not allowed in professional and leadership roles. You know who set that system up? Men.

Nope. The system was setup by a minority of powerful men on the top of hierarchy. Throughout the vast majority of the human history, the average man was expected to throw their lives away to fight wars and battles instigated by those at the top. If you go further back if you came from a poor family, you were sent to the frontlines as cannon fodder.

The protection argument is obsolete and utter bullshit. Men trying to justify systemically and socially confining women into roles of servitude in exchange for “protection” is based on some bizarre caveman hero fantasy. Protect women against what? Men. Women are more likely to be killed by their partner than a random person. Men don’t protect anyone, they add risk.

What are you talking about? The only men who were systemically and socially confining women into roles of servitude where those in position of power. In the ancient world, if you're a farmer or working class both gender were slaving away for those on the top. Men as a collective being able to protect doesn't just come from the individual or physical level, but also systematically. Men make up the majority of those who enforces laws and institutions, because FORCE is required to hold up those ideals. If you drive a car, you're more likely to be killed in a automobile accident. If you own a gun, you're more likely to be killed by that gun in your home. What am I suppose to take away from "women more likely to be killed by their partners than strangers" alone? If men were to disappear from the face of the Earth tomorrow, violence and war would still exist.

You’re projecting lol. I never said anything about checking boxes or “values.” So many of you creeps are so lost in the misogynist sauce you regurgitate counter arguments to things people aren’t even saying.

You literally said "Women no longer need a partner to survive so men finally have to add value outside of having a job and they can’t handle doing the things women have always done for their partners and families." If you meant something else, I'm open to clarification because I don't rely on buzzwords or insults to explain my opinions.

Edit: added an extra sentence on second paragraph.

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I love how men interpret western women finally having the legal autonomy to house, educate, and fund themselves as “getting to be pickier than ever.”

I love how you interpret anything as "but think of how the woman are suffering by this oppression"...

You and I both know thats not what we are talking about.

There is a massive difference between having a good career and owning property than refusing to date anyone that less than your work position and makes less than you.

Women are well known for rejecting men for what ever reason without saying anything and calling it the "ick".

I don't know about you but I can't say that I believe you in that this is oppressive to women when they reject guys for shit like: the way he pronounces a single word, a band he likes, that he uses a pink pen, etc (the list goes on for miles on random shallow as it get things that women reject men for).

Women are as picky as every.

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Ok but you can be a quiet or shy person while also being a great fighter, for fucks sake I'm one of those guys. I can put my foot down no problem and tell off some creepy guy but that doesn't change the fact that I'm just a quiet person and have some social anxiety. You can be confident in one situation and anxious in another, the brain is weird where I can be supremely confident in a fight and a bit anxious meeting new people. But I've also been training for like 15 years at this point and these are two very different situations

Whats funny tho is you are actively seeking out the guys who are the craziest and/or the worst fighters. Good fighters with a well adjusted brain generally don't peacock about how tough they are and act all cocky and shit. The guys who go around acting like they're the baddest dude around are generally not good fighters and use this character they've built to ward off any potential threats. If you want a guy who can protect you look for someone who actually trains, don't get with some arrogant meat head because he talks a big game. Like do you really think Georges St Pierre wouldn't stand up for his partner just because he's a polite kinda reserved guy?

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[–]bottleblankConscientious Objector 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Something I always said about not being able to believe I could ever have a job, as an abused autistic man, is that the application and interview process does not represent the job itself.

Which has proven to be 100% true, because now I do have a job, and none of the fear and social difficulty I had in trying to comprehend making it through the process of getting a job applies. I'm perfectly happy with my ability to perform the roles required of me, I'm getting the work done, sometimes even being explicitly praised for particular pieces of work which other coworkers could not achieve. I'm capable of being social with said coworkers, I'm capable of communicating my needs, requirements, progress, and concerns, and collaboratively contributing to decisions and productivity.

The skillset required to do my job, although it requires communication (voice and text), is not the same as being a someone who can confidently promote themselves. I'm not a public speaker, I'm not a marketing person, I'm not a manager, I'm a code monkey and button-pusher, I don't have to be (and shouldn't have to be) a highly bold, charismatic, outgoing, shameless self-promoter in order to do that. I spent my skill points where they matter for this job: in technology. That makes me a good technical employee.

But I was not confident in my ability to present myself in a desirable way. I'm not the flashy guy in a suit who can just beam charisma and charm from his shiny white perfect teeth. I'm not the egotistical guy who can talk all day about achievements and experiences and how goddamn awesome he is at everything. I was highly anxious, I was depressed, I had little to show for many years of adulthood. I was miserable, hopeless, and had dire self-esteem issues. Yet still, every day, I could get up and do technical things for myself, I could work on projects, I could learn, I could do all of the things important for the actual job that comes after the interview.

Likewise, the fact that I can't go to a nightclub, flash my abs, grind on a woman, buy her a drink, and be in bed with her in half an hour doesn't mean that I can't be a caring, considerate, accommodating, encouraging, emotionally available, supportive, and contributing partner.

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I know this may be controversial. But men should stay off online dating and approach women in real life and strike up a friendly conversation, build report, and drumroll please, ask a women out, shoot your shot (respectfully of course). Have b*lls. Stay off online dating and I understand not remaining friends with an ex girlfriend or someone whom you have unrequited feelings for…that’s torture to men. However, it would be worthwhile for any man who struggles to actually have a least one or two female friends (ones they are not sexually interested in). Because you need a woman’s perspective on things. Not just men who give you advice and are equally unsuccessful with women too. Talk to old married men (who are happily married). Any advice from a man or woman that is not in a successful relationship should be taken with a grain of salt

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even in professional environments they don't make basic eye contact,

Basic eye contact isn't indicative of being a good communicator. In fact, it can be considered rude in some professional and other spaces.

Also, one word answers are not necessarily bad communication either. Neither is speaking with an indoor voice.

Your examples of bad communication don't seem to be universally bad communication. Plenty of great communicators speak with indoor voices and don't need a lot of words to hold a conversation. Brevity can sometimes be the soul of wit.

That being said, maybe you are surrounded by women who are poor communicators even though the descriptions you used aren't necessarily indicators of it.

That doesn't mean that's reflective of most women.

I'd actually argue though that probably about half the population is poor communicators, regardless of gender, but that's a whole other conversation.

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I mean the social inept part was just the fact that they were lying to him as to the reason why they rejected him, and paying an node to the previous comment.

The actual point is, eventhough he isn't NBA level right now and is more of a local level. The Local team (the level he is at) rejects him because he isn't visibly going to be NBA level.

It basically ends up in this compound chicken and the egg problem. Some how he needs to get a local position to be able to maybe move up to NBA level, but local team won't take him unless he can maybe move up to NBA level.

This is reflected in modern day dating as most people are looking for their perfect partner (or close to). They want a well oiled healthy relationship just for them straight out the gate, and the moment there date shows they have a defect they are out.

No one list looking to build a relationship, they just want one from the start.

Don't get me wrong as this behaviour is not unique to women. However women do have so much more power and control in the dating world so it's done way more often by women than men.

Ie. Generally speaking Men are told to better/improve themselves. Where women are told to find better men.

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He used himself as an example of what he thinks is fact and what I think is conjecture.

I used myself and anecdotal evidence so it not just what someone says. Here is an idea don't just disregard what people say because they have experience with it...

Men on this sub tend to think women get handed things on platters just for being women.

Not handed but it actually been shown in studies that men have a harder time making, developing, and maintaining social group because of how much is expected out of men and not because they are social inept.

Women tend to value self deprecation in order to maintain a friend group over calling out bad behaviours that would get her out casted from the group.

In the guy's example about his gf getting invited to more parties, it could be because she has spent more time strengthening social bonds with those acquaintances and is more enjoyable at parties, not solely because she a woman

It absolutely could be, but you haven't provided any evidence or even and argument as to why this would be a case over the other.

You literally just said "nope, your wrong and just because you experienced it means your the only one, and you wrong just because I say so".

You bash me for added a hit of evidence and then refuse to add any like your ideal is fact....

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[–]OpiumTraitor2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You didn't point to any science. When I asked what expectations people have of men in social groups, it was because you had said:

Not handed but it actually been shown in studies that men have a harder time making, developing, and maintaining social group because of how much is expected out of men and not because they are social inept.

So where's your proof that it's harder for you to get something like party invites while it might come easier to your gf specifically because she's a woman?

I'm still have an infinite more evidence than you though, who has yet to post anything that isn't you saying your opinion as it is fact.

You said yourself you only have anecdotal evidence so now you're just saying that your anecdotes beat my anecdotes because...why exactly?

I also have never said my opinion is fact. I have said that there are a million reasons why a woman may get more invites than a guy, including your reasoning that it's due to her gender. I just happen to think that it's not a likely reason by itself

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Who gives a fuck about Reddit? I’m talking about real life. Red pillers and black pillers like lying and say that there’s no messaging that women don’t talk about looks when that’s horseshit. They’re just blaming women for their ineptitude and autism, who many have admitted to having. They mention this “women say they don’t care about looks” from their real life experiences.

Women tell me and my friends how good looking we are. And when they talk about their bfs they ALWAYS mention his looks, even if he looks like a troglodyte they find him very attractive to them in their eyes.

My ex used to go on about how attractive I was

I’ve heard some girl a few days ago talking about some guy she’s speaking to whilst in town and the other girls first question was “well is he cute”?

A woman has told me once in relation to tinder “well I thought you were attractive but your texts got me really hooked”

Women tell me how much they like my physique and check me out and my friends.

Women telling you that looks aren’t the only thing that matters=/=looks don’t matter at all.

When I’m watching love island U.K. women always swoon and appreciates the man’s good looks and physique.

Your own intuition should be telling you that looks matter unless you’re on the spectrum. Majority of people know how important attractiveness is.

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Having a nice personality and having game/confidence are two different things.

I'm not great looking and I've had girlfriends way out of my league. I've known plenty of short, bald, chubby dudes that are better at seduction than 90% of people I know.

Even if it were literally impossible for an ugly dude to pull, what's your solution? Enslave women and force them to fuck Sloth from the goonies?

Ugly dudes obviously don't want to fuck ugly girls or they would. If you are ugly you need something else to bring the the table or settle for someone that matches your attractiveness, and most incels I know think they can substitute good looks for being an overly nice, spineless simp. When that fails they usually result to insulting women or "negging" them which only works if they are already into you.

BTW being an asshole doesn't mean you lack social awareness

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Wise losers tend to accept their station with time. There are few lifetime failures at twenty. MOST of us were filled with potential, promise, and great expectations. Anyone could turn out to be president of the U.S. or at least of a company. Few were bald, fat was still being passed off as muscle, and every man you knew was going to make it someday.

So where did we failures go? I contend that there are just as many men now as there were when we were, say, twenty-three. We just don't recognize ourselves. Society doesn't recognize us because some of us are fat and some are bald and only a handful made it much of anywhere. We are no longer "suitable," or as suitable as we looked to be at twenty. Our lives are no longer ahead of us, instead, we are smack in the middle of what our lives turned out to be, and that isn't much. Poor guys. There are plenty of failures at forty and fifty.

Addiction, isolation, gaming, daydreaming, rising health issues, education dropouts, job failures, missed opportunities, thwarted ambitions--that's what omega males our age are made of.

But it is liberating. We are invisible. We can do anything and go anywhere and no one cares so long as we don't bother them. No responsibilities. The world is our monastery.

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Well, I do feel bad for the truly good men that are still out there, caring considerate respectful and hardworking. Unfortunately they didn’t get the shaft from women, albeit I know they feel that way and blame women. Really you need to blame other men who behaved so badly to the women you want to date. Hence, that’s why our guard is up with you, that’s why we are jaded, and irritated and short fused. In the same vein, women need to stop lowering their standards and accepting bad behavior and these jerks will straighten out if we were more cutthroat and implemented zero tolerance for cheating, lying, abuse, disrespect etc. so men and women need to hold ourselves to account. What we allow, we teach. I worked in a male dominated manufacturing plant for 5 years and I’d say the issue is the good men say and do nothing when the bad men behave atrociously. We have a crisis of boys and men, google Richard reeves and google 7 million men not work between the age of 25-54. We have a failure of male leadership and mentorship. Single mom’s aren’t going to fill the void on what it is to be a good man, men have to step up and step in and break their boots off in these young men’s *sses. Plain and simple. Men have to own that.

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I don’t follow, who is telling you that you “must” accept x, y, z? I’m lost. All I said is if women had poor encounters with some men, their guard might be up. I have no idea what you’re getting at but let me give you the law of the jungle because even though we are human, we are still animals. And you have to get right with the truth. All women are prey and some men are predators. Again all women are prey. All, period full stop. I’m sure the women Ted bundy killed thought he was a fine young gentleman. All women have to do is have one close call and the light bulb moment is “oh sh*t”. So the good men need to realize we can’t tell a book by it’s cover. This isn’t bigotry or prejudice. This is survival. My whole family is cops, I don’t care what pampered world you live in or gated community, but facts don’t care about your feelings.

[–]Subject-Purp 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I don’t follow, who is telling you that you “must” accept x, y, z?

Bruh you are saying that right now. You're saying that I need to accept bad treatment from women because some other man or men treated her poorly. And come on don't be a liar now you said way more than just "if women had poor encounters with some men, their guard might be up." In fact this is what you said if you need a refresher

that’s why our guard is up with you, that’s why we are jaded, and irritated and short fused.

That's a lot more than just having your guard up. I don't see why I should be treated like a piece of shit just because of my gender. I would be more than willing to put a mf in the ground if he's being a piece of shit, but that's probably why people don't act like that around me. I don't even get the chance to correct anyone's behavior and yet I'm somehow responsible for how they act when I'm not around? Come on you have to know that doesn't really make any sense.

All women are prey and some men are predators. Again all women are prey.

How are all women prey when men are much more likely to be attacked then women are? Yall are so much safer than men yet you're more of a victim and in more danger? The data does not agree with you on this one.

All women have to do is have one close call and the light bulb moment is “oh sh*t”

And you think that's unique to women?

So the good men need to realize we can’t tell a book by it’s cover. This isn’t bigotry or prejudice. This is survival.

Judging a book by its cover is textbook bigotry. Treating someone differently based on their gender is bigotry. What do you think bigotry is if not that?

My whole family is cops, I don’t care what pampered world you live in or gated community, but facts don’t care about your feelings.

Oh that makes sense, you're a terrified bigot because you have cop brain. Just make sure not to shoot any unarmed black kids. I know they can be real scary just standing there doing nothing but I have hope that you can make it through

[–]AcrobaticRhubarb21471 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I never said men must accept it, wtf? just because I explain why some women might have their guard up, be jaded, etc. no one should treat anyone like a POS. you are reading way way too much into things, whatever it is has you triggered big time. Dude, I'm a rando on the internet, calm the eff down. geez. no need to go to war and put a MFer in the ground. you need a xanax. Threatening much? you must be a real charmer with the ladies. wow

men are more likely to be attacked....drumroll please...by other men. when men say women need a protector, who you protecting us from....drumroll please....other men. the fact is if I'm walking down the street late at night and I see 4 men walking my direction, I'm crossing the street, better safe then sorry. I see 4 women, I'm not crossing the street (and neither are you). if that makes me a "bigot" then fine, but at least I will be an alive bigot, because why take unnecessary chances with your safety. How do you know I'm not black, you make a lot of assumptions. And I like how you jump from sexism to racism, bizarre and weird AF. Women are scared of men, period full stop. And for valid reasons. the 3 most trafficked things are women (sexual slavery), guns, and drugs. who is trafficking grown men in the numbers they are trafficking girls and women? If you want to live under a rock and deny reality, sir, I can't help you. let's put you in general population at rikers island and let's see if those men scare you

[–]Subject-Purp1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are actually that men need to accept it because you are justifying and defending the behavior. When have you ever explicitly said its wrong for women to act like this and that they should stop?

And what now that I agree with you that we should violently oppose creepy men suddenly that's a problem? Jesus christ what do you want? It's wrong for me to do nothing and it's wrong for me to do something, so just be clear on what you actually want. Cut out the flip flopping and be an adult. Or are you just here to be sexist and talk shit?

men are more likely to be attacked....drumroll please...by other men

I just love this irrelevant point always being brought up by cowardly sexist women like you. Yes men are more likely to be assaulted by other and we don't act like simmering little children afraid of their own shadow. Your extreme fear and paranoia is not supported by the data and does not actually keep you safe, it just makes you look like an easy victim. The real thing is that America is a very safe country and you are just not likely to be attacked on the street even if you belong to every group that is most likely to be attacked on the street. Again get some help for your severe mental issues and bigotry.

if that makes me a "bigot" then fine, but at least I will be an alive bigot, because why take unnecessary chances with your safety.

It literally does make you a bigot in the most basic definition of the word. Do you cross the street when you see black people too? Looking at the stats they commit a lot of crime, better safe than sorry right? Hell why even leave your house at all? You get hit by a car and die. Better safe than sorry right?

who is trafficking grown men in the numbers they are trafficking girls and women

Yeah and you aren't being trafficked in America unless you're a native woman on the rez, which you aren't. So again you're just a cowardly bigot. The stats don't even support your beliefs.

let's put you in general population at rikers island and let's see if those men scare you

Yeah and what are they gonna do beat me up? Lol good luck with that I'm a natural light heavyweight (mma standards) with 15 years of training. A couple leg kicks would cripple them, then I just slam them on their head and then snap their arm in half. And now I'm on top of them while they have one working arm, one working leg, and a concussion. What are they gonna do then? Why would I fear anyone who I can fuck up that badly in under a minute?

Here's the real shit, most people are horrible fighters because they've never trained in their life. Bigotry won't keep you safe when someone decides to fuck with you, mma and/or parkour will. Like what do you plan to do if a man follows you across the street and decides to fuck with you? Crossing the street doesn't stop someone from assaulting when they can just cross the street too. (Also this is you justifying the bigotry and poor treatment that you claim to not defend or justify)

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Why do you think a white tank top on a man is called a wife beater? Just look at the news, Chad Doerman shot his wife through the hand and then killed their 3 boys before Father’s Day this year. One son ran away and he hunted him down and brought him back and killed him and laid him down next to the other 2. His dad said he snapped, but the evidence is showing he planned it. Google “family annihilators”. Steven crowder is on video verbally abusing his very pregnant wife, Steven crowder also admitted that he told her he would “F her up”. Unless you live under a rock, I honestly don’t know what to tell you. If you want to know crime statistics, they are easy enough for you to google yourself. But I get the vibe that you don’t want the truth to be what it is. The 3 top things that are trafficked are women, arms (guns), and drugs. Women are sold into sexual slavery every day, kidnapped, etc. Chris watts killed his very pregnant wife and 2 little girls, ditto Scott Peterson. I think you’d have to be pretty dense to just choose to stick your head in the sand and not see things for what they are. Are you one of those men that doesn’t believe rape is real. Let’s put you in general population at rikers island and you’ll experience how real rape is,

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Really you need to blame other men who behaved so badly to the women you want to date.

Women wanted sexual liberation, they got it it but the problem is they didn't realize it would also liberate men. Did you think you could offer yourself to the best men then he'd become your boyfriend right after. A lot of women use this guilt strategy of quickly having sex with a man then guilting him into a relationship. It is more proof that women have no game and don't know how to be feminine or really women at all. Stop picking men out of your league. Stop shaming men for being inexperienced. How do men gain experience anyway by using and tossing women away. Men don't step in when men behave atrociously because women choose those men, they like those men, they like that behavior, they fuck those men and want relationships with them.

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[–]Billsandasonom1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If you're ugly, that's gonna hurt your chances a lot, but that's not why the vast majority of men who struggle in dating are struggling. That's where all the comments about being socially inept come in. The incels are a perfect example, many of them are autistic and lack any social networks or support, and may come from broken families. They also have super toxic attitudes and fixate on things like looks and the blackpill, so you know they are putting effort into looking good or normal. I've also just seen this IRL a lot. Goodlooking men who just creep women out and drive them away b/c their vibes and speech are just offputting and weird. You absolutely do need to get your foot in the door with qualifying things like looking presentable and good (enough)...but from what I've seen that's not a high bar.

[–]desperateDaydream1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheMilkmanShallRise1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It’s not women’s fault that now that they have options, they found that the vast majority of men they encounter are less appealing than ending up single.

I agree it's not womens fault. But it's not men's fault either. Society is currently pushing the "most men are socially awkward, toxic, misogynistic, etc. and that's why record high numbers of women are single". Most polls show that almost two-thirds of men (a little over 60%, I believe) have completely stopped approaching women, using dating apps, going on dates, trying to get into relationships, etc. and that these numbers are only going to keep rising. There's clearly other factors at play here besides "all of those men are socially awkward weirdos". That's the point being made here. It's time to stop blaming men for this. Also, women always say they're happy being single when they're in their 20's and they're still being flooded with constant attention and validation from men. It's a lot different when you're in your mid-30's or 40's and men aren't telling you you're beautiful on a daily basis anymore.

Plenty of obese, autistic, and ugly women out there too so if MEN are supposedly the ones mainly suffering from loneliness, why aren’t MEN lowering their standards to go after those women instead of complaining that women they’re actually attracted to should change their own standards?

Men HAVE lowered their standards. By a large margin, too. On dating apps, men pretty much swipe right on anyone (and women shame men for this too saying men will fuck anything that moves, so we can't do anything right, I guess). The problem? Because of the constant, non-stop attention and validation those women get on social media (fat women are constantly told they're beautiful no matter what, for example), those morbidly obese, autistic, ugly women literally think they deserve a man who's tall, successful, in shape, muscular, intelligent, confident, dominant, ambitious, etc. These women would turn their nose up at the average man. That's the problem. Even those women wouldn't be willing to date the guys that are struggling lol. But women don't understand this. Most women have no idea how hard it is to get laid as a man because they're able to sit back and have men come to them with no effort on their part, so it's understandable that they aren't able to comprehend this.

Seriously, what do men want from women when they keep bringing this topic up?

Empathy. A sign that you actually understand the struggle that men go through without being combative and arguing just to argue. These men want women to try to understand what it's like to not get things handed to you just because you exist. That's all they want.

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Well certainly some men and some women are socially inept, but there are also people who 'lack meaningful connection' or 'lack emotional intelligence'.

Although I think there is a lot of overlap between 'socially inept' and '[lacking] in emotional intelligence'.

Women get to be pickier than ever

Anyone can consent to whomever they want, regardless of gender

but they are not picking personality

Most people do need to have someone who has a compatible personality who they have chemistry with in addition to them feeling attracted to them generally; this isn't a gendered thing. There are some people who will date someone with no personality but most people need compatible ones in order to enjoy each others' company.

Yes for an optional sexual and/or romantic relationship, regardless of gender, generally most people need to be physically attracted to each other....

The numbers of lonely young men are simply too big to be blamed on shitty personality traits or autism.

There are lonely people of every gender. Some of the loneliest are in marriages and long-term relationships. Most people who have experience in at least one long-term relationship will tell you the loneliest they ever were romantically where when he/she was laying beside them and weren't connecting, or their connection had come undone.

Most young men are having sex. Most will have live-in relationships or marriages by some time in their thirties (US).

I just wish "psychologists" writing these articles would admit that.

Why are you putting that in quotes? Either they are psychologists or they aren't.

Women are picking looks over all else

Plenty of women might swipe right on 10 guys they find attractive and then unmatch with them because they realize a lifestyle incompatibility... but yes, most men and most women aren't trying to match with someone they find to be unattractive to them.

Forcing yourself to date someone you're not attracted to is an unhealthy dynamic for any relationship.

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Here's a take I'm surprised I haven't been seeing more: the US population after boomers has a significant male surplus, whereas boomers have long had a significant female surplus. What changed? The Vietnam draft culled a lot of young men from the generation, which was the norm for previous generations. Our sustained relative peace has had the unpleasant side effect of increasing the competition among young men to find a partner.

That said, the completely deranged conclusion to take away from this would be that we need to send more men off to war so those of us lucky enough to stay alive have an easier time getting with women. We should be grateful overall while still recognizing that solving one problem often comes with new smaller problems.

There are also many other factors reinforcing our newer problem like viagra making older men sexually viable and birth control ironically reducing the sex drives of many women.

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Title	This sub really needs to stop calling men who struggle in dating "socially inept"
Author	Johnny_Autism
Upvotes	373
Comments	671
Date	July 2, 2023 3:40 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14orcgc/this_sub_really_needs_to_stop_calling_men_who/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/this-sub-really-needs-to-stop-calling-men-who.1224294 https://theredarchive.com/post/1224294

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