The rapid societal decline in sex and relationships is solely due to women's lack of interest

Soft_Ad7060 · 2022-02-17T10:38:15+00:00

As a woman I can confirm that I am not that interested in relationship.

Clearhill · 2022-02-17T11:02:32+00:00

I think you're right in a sense - women are less interested - but you're missing the why. This is where the link is. A lot of women blame porn and video games, because men who play a lot of video games are often poorly socialized, and difficult to have a conversation with, and men who watch a lot of porn are often a chore to have sex with - they are more likely to hurt you during sex, take forever to come, and demand bizarre rituals from whatever weird porn rabbithole they are currently inhabiting - it's just not particularly fun if you're not into the same thing yourself. That's not a blanket statement, there are some women who will watch porn and be into things too, but for a lot of women they're not into it. I think excessive porn use makes sexual preferences more niche and then the odds of compatibility / overlap are lower.

So yes, women are less interested. But no, that is not unrelated to the video games and porn.

Of course that's not the full story, there are other reasons too. Women have more financial independence in the past, so more freedom to not have a man around. But a lot of men are making themselves less interesting to women through their habits.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2022-02-17T03:40:49+00:00

From what I can tell from my single female friends its essentially effort vs reward.

Essentially is going through the dating market and actively looking for a relationship worth the benefit of the relationship.

Most women I know are not adverse to relationships. It's not that women aren't interested. They're just not actively looking.

For a relationship to happen then being in a relationship must feel better than not being on a relationship. Essentially being in a relationship should give her a net benefit.

It's not that men suck as a whole per say. It's just that finding a boyfriend at that point in time wasn't worth the effort. An LTR means living with someone, having to deal with other people's flaws 24/7, compromising on food, cleaning, habits, your sex life, where to live, where to work etc.

And for lots of people, that's just not worth it. Or at least it's only worth it for very few men. I know 4 single women, 2 of whom are virgins who aren't looking and aren't interested in looking. 3 are mildly extroverted but just aren't interested in putting in the effort for very little reward. For some it's because the last few relationships were just meh (having issues with cleaning, dealing with someone else's space, rather incompatible life goals). For others, they just truthfully cannot be bothered at the moment. And also for some the effort to filter out men who are put for pump and dump vs relationships is too hard and annoying. Too bothersome. So the juice ain't worth the squeeze.

Now I understand not all men are feel the juice is worth the squeeze either. And that's fine. But they're likely just doing the female version MGTOW but with less anger and more shrug meh not worth it sort of attitude. Unless they're FDS. Then they're just weird

studiocel · 2022-02-17T03:09:46+00:00

Stop talking about useless demographics the problem must be anime

quiturbitchn · 2022-02-17T03:56:57+00:00

Women no longer have to trade sex/relationships for survival. This isn’t complicated. A lot of men only bring resources to the table and women can now acquire those themselves

Effective-Walrus1157 · 2022-02-17T04:11:43+00:00

I can agree to an extent. A lot of women prefer being single to being in a relationship these days. Men always think they're competing against other men; they don't get they're competing against the woman's life she has on her own.

The reasons vary. Some women don't want kids, some women have lived with guys and felt like all they did was clean up after them, some women find LTRs stifling.

Women usually have an easier time finding sex while not in a relationship, which I think factors in too - I was never lonely when I was single, while most single men I know are lonely.

I do think studies finding women do more housework and childcare even when they work full-time is a big part of this. No one wants to do most of the work at home after a long day at work. And a lot of single men I meet are frankly not appealing - they're not in shape, they seem set in their ways to the point I'm surprised they think they'd be good partners, or they're just boring, watching TV or gaming 24/7. (To be fair, this is plenty of women too! Not claiming all men are like this!)

Plus there's the orgasm gap - straight men and lesbians have more orgasms than straight women. Sex for a lot of guys seems to be "could you suck my dick before I fuck you?" Zero foreplay, mental play, etc. The number of men I've slept with who really seemed to get what women want is depressingly low. Even when you explain it to some guys it never quite clicks, so why would women be interested?

TheGweatandTewwible · 2022-02-17T05:02:19+00:00

Women are most definitely on the lookout for fun because it's easy. Men also look for it but most of them don't have the drive or the means to do so

That being said, in terms of serious relationships, both sides are pretty much giving up.

librarypunk1974 · 2022-02-17T11:04:56+00:00

You’re not wrong. I make 6 figures and have no one holding me accountable to them. I’ve had plenty of relationships but men simply exhaust me. Too emotionally draining and they basically just want to get their dick wet and split. Why bother?

Longjumping-Goat-348 · 2022-02-17T04:40:52+00:00

Males are becoming increasiongly disinteretsed too. I think this is for two main reasons.

1) Men are placating and quieting their sexual desires by engaging in readily avaiable, highly addictive hedonistic activities like gaming and porn. These types of activies are addicting and pleasurful to the point where many men simply don't see the benefits of putting in the effort required to make themselves sexually desireable.

2) The rapid and steep decline in testosterone over the past few decades has nuked a lot of dudes' sex drives. If you're critically deficient in testosterone then you're not gonna have the urge or desire to seek sex in the first place.

throwawaylessons103 · 2022-02-17T03:32:47+00:00

As a woman, it's not that I'm not interested in relationships or sex at all.

It's just that I want to be attracted to the person I'm fucking or dating.

I realize I might be a bit of an outlier, because I don't care what a man makes (beyond being able to afford his basic expenses), but I do care a lot about physical attraction. I workout, dress feminine, and put effort into my looks.

Most men I've seen on dating apps, at bars, at meetups, simply do not. I'm tired of seeing baggy t-shirts and beer guts. I understand women are also overweight, but men aren't any better and they don't prioritize being well-dressed.

I also don't want kids, so maybe that contributes to not feeling the pressure, but I have money, vibrators, great friends/family, and can go on dates for fun.

If I'm not enthusiastic about having sex with someone, I'm not dating or fucking them.

MarBitt · 2022-02-17T04:20:08+00:00

Statistically, women have weaker sexual desire than men. As power passes to women, sex between men and women begins to take place more according to the needs and desires of women. And just look at how it is with the frequency of sex among lesbians compared to sex between gays.

In earlier times, women needed to be in a relationship. For survival, then for economic security, or at least social pressure. In order to keep the man, the woman tried to satisfy him = she had sex more often than if the frequency were purely according to her. This pressure on women is disappearing, it's okay to be single. There is no pressure on women to have more sex, but there is pressure on men to pay more attention to consent, been more restrained in trying to get a woman. The result of female power in society.

So less frequent sex is understandable. And it has little to do with men's attractiveness, because even lesbian women don't have as much sex as gays have. Even with the fact that women do not reach orgasm so often when having sex with men, because men are better lovers than they were decades ago. In addition, men more than balance their technical shortcomings with enthusiasm for sex and an active approach. That's why heterosexual couples still have more sex than lesbians.

Some people expected sexual liberation to wake up the repressed female sexuality, and women would want so much sex that sexual gender inequality would disappear. It did not happen because women do not have such a high desire. Occasionally and with the right man yes, but it's not reliable. And accusing men of not caring for themselves in terms of attractiveness is more of an evasive maneuver. Defense so that women are not blamed for their weaker sexual desire.

Accepting a woman's level of sexual desire as a new standard, instead of conceiving it as a decline and lack of interest, will lead to less blaming of men by women. And calmer society. It will not increase the frequency of sex between women and men, but even blaming women or men will not increase it. So it is better to accept the new status quo, to adapt and to learn to live peacefully with it.

spacemanofthezone · 2022-02-17T11:33:24+00:00

The "feminine" things like caring for your appearance and creating mystery/romance have been taught mostly to women. But that's bullshit.

Men used to wear wigs and make-up. Some men have style, are extravagant and flamboyant and attract attention. This not only makes you look appealing to women, it makes you more of an object of desire and interest. Men want to be desired, yet they don't do the things that make a person - woman or man - desirable. They've been brainwashed by their bros that making that effort is gay, and instead they tried to force women into economic slavery, so that the men are survival instruments instead of objects of desire. Do you think David Bowie's gay? Do you think young Mick Jagger was gay with his full lips and big eyes? Women may want status and power, and if their only way to achieve it through hypnotizing a powerful man, they will do it. But they also want sex and romance with desirable partners. That's why we want financial freedom - so we can be able to choose or opt out, just like men.

Men complain about Beta Bucks. When they don't complain about Beta Bucks, they complain that women no longer need Beta Bucks, because they have money. Society needs men to be workbees and brainwashed you into thinking that it makes you desirable.

Men, free yourself from the malignant social conditioning and realize that you can be DESIRED, WANTED AND LOVED, but you need to perform for women just as women perform for men. It's effort, but it's fun and it will give you power. Personal style, grooming, fitness, (not big muscles, this is something men respect, not something women like. Women like swimmer bodies and are very lax in their standards as long as you don't look bad) SMILING and being fun to be around.

Creating the illusion that you are something exclusive and special and are only sexually and romantically interested in THAT PARTICULAR WOMAN, because she's so special. That's what women want. Women have performed the same act for centuries, because they had to. Now they put pressure on you. Because that's what we want, honest.

Your moms may have loved you for who you are, but no woman will want you sexually and romantically just for who you are. You need to put in effort, that's adult life. Then you'll stand out and choose the best woman from the interested parties and grow a relationship with her - she will want you at first, then grow to love you, then she start loving you for who you really are and develop friendship and loyalty for you, and she won't dump you if you get into a bad spot if you build these things. No guarantees, but that's how love works. She's not your mother. She's a woman with her own desires. She doesn't owe you love, you have to earn and build it.

With so low a competition, most men will win big utilizing so called "feminine" tactics. Only they are not feminine, but romantic and sexual tactics, and smart men who use them have a huge advantage. See where you've been misled in your ideas about what women want - stable powerful men - and realize that they don't want them, they put up with them. They want desirable men who make them feel special, like men do. Stop telling them that you are a fuck machine and want to fuck other women all the time, we want other men too, but pretend we don't, because we know you don't like it. Women don't like or respect gross men, only your bros high-five you for that. You don't want to sleep with your bros or cuddle with them though.

You want a woman, and a quality one at that. That's how you get her.

MyHeartIsABrehive · 2022-02-17T17:21:22+00:00

Except men aren't seeking love and romance. Men aren't pausing their video games to go show up at the Love-n-Romance-fest. They aren't downloading Tinder and Bumble for the love and romance.

Why do you think women aren't participating?

Men are looking for sex. The kind of sex porn sells them. Women want no part of that.

In a world where women can vote and go to college and take birth control... what use do they have for being sex objects or for being an accessory to the male experience/story/frame?

Men want sex. Male hormones and the male fantasy drive them to "Romance and Love" women with the express goal of fucking them, getting a wife, and churning out babies.

Women don't need or want that and it's all in bad faith anyway. The overwhelming vast majority of men ARE NOT PRINCE CHARMING and their fantasies and romances are not quite so innocent or virtuous.

Why would women care? Why should they want to participate? They don't need our love or validation.

AtTheEnd777 · 2022-02-17T06:25:55+00:00

Is it possible that women have simply become disinterested in sex and relationships with men because they've gotten sick of behaviors that men refuse to change, like excessive gaming and porn use?

Initial_Chemical7121 · 2022-02-17T03:18:21+00:00

From what I’ve heard from friends who don’t want families, the quality of men just isn’t there. They’re happier alone and working and casually seeing someone than committing. Each to their own I guess.

effeteintellectual · 2022-02-17T03:26:01+00:00

Btw a lot of guys aren’t actively looking for sex/relationships either. They’ll say they’ve tried everything but they barely go out of the house. To them “everything” means swiping right on every girl on tinder. The desire just isn’t there. They distract themselves by playing video games, watching porn, smoking weed, watching Netflix etc

FoxCQC · 2022-02-17T05:18:04+00:00

It's socioeconomic. We don't need marriage as much. Before it was to unit people and build stronger families. All you had was your family and close people before. Now society can support an individual. The need for family isn't as great.

MistressMisandry · 2022-02-17T13:26:58+00:00

Women would prioritize sex if men prioritized the female orgasm the way they do their own. There’s literally no interest in having sex with majority of men who have no interest in learning, or adequate knowledge, in providing genuine sexual pleasure to a female person. This is why.

bluestjuice · 2022-02-17T17:48:28+00:00

Dick is abundant and low-value.

Freak-O-Natcha · 2022-02-17T06:03:22+00:00

And why do you propose women aren't interested?

It really comes down to the fact that women are outperforming men in almost every way on average, at least in my age group (late 20s) and younger. Women go to college and get degrees in higher numbers, are earning more, and tend to take much better care of themselves in terms of appearance. Women are more "put together," while a lot of men are still asking their mom how to do their laundry and expecting a 1950s housewife after marriage, which is not something most modern women are interested in. Its a mismatch in what the sexes expect and are looking for in each other.

For a man to land a woman, he has to be a net positive to her life. He has to bring something tot he table that would improve her life over her being single and living her life on her own. Most men are simply incapable of doing that. A lot of the time the men are "man children" who can't cook, clean or maintain their own space and try to shove all the cleaning off on the woman. That just isn't going to fly in most modern relationships. Not saying thats all men of course, but speaking as an AFAB who has had multiples of these experiences its a significant factor in why I might drop a man. I want someone who is as responsible, capable and competent as myself, and most men just dont meet that bar. Also to note, I could care less about "traditional" gender roles or a man "providing." I make over 6 figures and I could care less what he's doing for his career. What women want is an equal partner, and most men just don't know what that means. Why would I be with someone who doesn't meet the standards I hold myself to?

It just doesn't make sense to saddle yourself with someone who thinks less of your capabilities, intelligence, input and ideas etc because of your sex, and in my experience the vast majority of men have this issue.

If you want a woman, you have to actually add value to her life without massively detracting, and thats just not something most men can or are willing to do.

OfCatandPagan · 2022-02-17T03:32:14+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ChibsFilipTelfordd · 2022-02-17T07:21:50+00:00

In aggregate, men are more professionally successful than women, spend more time at the gym, and put more effort into their game and social skills.

Source?

The average unmarried woman makes more than the average unmarried man.

Women are less overweight + obese than men (68% vs 70%).

rurunoa · 2022-02-17T08:00:06+00:00

i genuinely don’t see the problem with that?

Beltadowa · 2022-02-17T09:53:23+00:00

I think this is a bit oversimplified. To counter your argument about gaming, (which I love in moderation btw) perhaps a lot of these women who aren't seeking, previously had boyfriends, but after the novelty wore off he ignored her to do gaming. Perhaps he was copying porn in the bedroom putting her off sex. In this (common) scenario the obsessive gaming and general shittiness etc has led to fewer women in the dating pool.

SwimmingAd9458 · 2022-02-17T11:22:54+00:00

I don't fancy Jordan Peterson but he has this quite insightful speech about women being sexually pickier than men. Rightfully so.

Eventually, when having sex, women carry the major consequences by getting pregnant - which is a life altering physical and material consequence, it limits their future prospects in many ways!

Children need a huge effort and most of your free time! ofc money-wise having a baby affects a men too, but the women are the ones to carry and deliver the baby. And in case of divorce or breakup they end up to be single moms (please don't come with the bs about judges biasedly giving full custody to moms in divorces - most fathers don't even initiate to have full custody and are perfectly happy to be Sunday dads, tops)

So either women look for a LTR or a ONS, they will be damn picky, just to make sure that their hypothetical baby's father is a man of high quality, is nice looking, has a good job. (Remember, no contraceptive method is 100% successful)

t_minus_420 · 2022-02-17T13:39:47+00:00

The problem in your argument is what you think makes a man an attractive partner. You evaluate men on 3 categories: 1) "professionally successful", 2) "spend time in the gym", and 3) put "effort into their game and social skills".

By "professionally successful" I'm assuming you mean make more money. Making money, and success in a career generally, is incredibly important in life and does contribute to making a guy more attractive to make. However, men tend to wildly overvalue how important money and career are to a woman. Sure, some women are very shallow, and only care about money and success, this is well documented and understood across culture. But, most women don't. Most women want to see that a guy can take care of himself, has some ambition, direction, drive, and is competent; but it ends there. Sure, there is always the opportunity to be flashy and show off your wealth, but if that is the only value you bring to the table women will get bored very fast.
This one is very flawed. Simply put, "spending time in the gym" doesn't make you physically attractive. Like success, staying physically fit is a really important part of being attractive. But also like success, going to the gym is also wildly over valued by guys. If you think the fact that someone goes to the gym, and I'm assuming does a good job while they're there, takes care of everything a guy needs to do to look attractive, you are very very off track. What makes a guy physically attractive also has a lot to do with how he carries himself, how he grooms himself, what clothes and personal style he exudes, and many more. These factors put together will make a guy more attractive than going to the gym, every time. If I had to give one piece of advice to a guy on. how to be more attractive to women, it would be to learn how to dress well - not to go to the gym. ---- You argue that men "go to the gym more" and therefore put more effort into their appearance than women? This could not be farther from the truth. Women put so much effort into how they look, men could never compete. Not only do they work out at least as much as men (probably more), they obsess over their hair, make up, clothes, how they look in pictures... are men doing the same? Not even close. This is actually a really big point of contention with women.... how do men expect women to put in so much effort to look good on a daily basis... and men, what, show up in a hoody and cargo shorts and are supposed to be considered equally attractive? Because they go to the gym? Absurd.
"Putting effort into their social skills" is also something that is really great, and everyone should practice more. However, putting effort into something doesn't make you good at it, and at the end of the day you're not going to get a participation trophy because you tried really hard, but failed. You're going to be judged based on your social output rather than the amount of effort you put in. So keep putting in effort, but make sure it's the right kind of effort. Practicing "game" is exactly the wrong kind of effort. If you need some basic social tactics to get out there and talk to people, I think theres no shame in studying and learning some tricks. But, if you think for a second that you are tricking anyone with something you learned from a PUA, you are in for a rude awakening. Women can see right through this, women know what you are thinking. Only the dumbest of the dumbs are going to fall for "game", and by putting any time into this, you are automatically filtering out the most desirable women in the room. "Game" not only isn't effective - it's worse - it makes women think you don't see them as human, but rather as a prize that can be won through manipulation, and there is nothing less attractive than that. You are going to shoot yourself in the foot every time you think you can get away with this, and women are going to run away SO FAST.

So, to continue your analogy, there is a town with 100 job openings and 100 active job seekers. But, the jobs are looking for specific work skills, let's say coding. 100 openings for coders, and 100 job seekers applying for coding jobs, but they lack the skills necessary to be hired. They don't know how a computer works, have horrible understanding of STEM concepts in general, and have no communication skills necessary to work with other people in the office. Companies need GOOD employees. This is a much more accurate analogy than the one you're working with. Get the right skills for the job and you won't have a problem landing one.

rartedrandom · 2022-02-17T14:49:33+00:00

Counter point

It is porn and video games limiting men dating because women no longer find the porn addicted gamer attractive or relationships with them fulfilling. Women have realized they’re more fulfilled without men and are choosing to be single. Men simply aren’t that appealing anymore.

Elliejq88 · 2022-02-17T16:26:08+00:00

Also men replacing porn over female interaction and men being unwilling to commit.

aelinivanov · 2022-02-17T16:49:55+00:00

And it's a good thing. What a time to be alive

ProtocolPro22 · 2022-02-17T18:04:43+00:00

And men are fucking retarded and not worth the time.

Emergency-Regret6974 · 2022-02-17T03:29:22+00:00

Are you providing incentive for women to date, fuck or whatever it is you're complaining about? What do women get out of this?

250umdfail · 2022-02-17T05:53:27+00:00

Without porn and video games, men wouldn't prefer to be sexless. They'd just dumpster dive.

When I first started dating I was just excited to be with a real person than a pornstar. Once the newness wore off though, I realized as a short bald guy, I can either only attract overweight women, or low libido women. The juice just wasn't worth the squeeze.

So it's a combination of both. Women aren't interested in 80% of the men interested in them. And men are happy to bide their time with video games, and porn, until they can get someone who is as much into him, as he's into her. This set of mutual interest is rapidly shrinking thanks to all the digital distractions.

Drive-By-Cuckers · 2022-02-17T03:26:17+00:00

Idk I think plenty of women are still looking for men at least at my age. Most of my friends are

A lot of the parties i go to have more women than men or are about even but it depends what kind of party it is and who is working the door tbh

ChromaticVengeance · 2022-02-17T09:58:38+00:00

One of many reasons. So what? Do you need to strip them of freedom of choice to make men happy?

kayama57 · 2022-02-17T11:37:07+00:00

The problem is that all of us - men and women - are not willing to be good partners anymore. It’s a chore, but even more-so when the other person doesn’t want to give an inch. It’s not fair to blame society’snoroblems on just women or just men.

_-One4All-_ · 2022-02-17T15:07:05+00:00

And the decrease in woman’s interest has to do with a decrease in men’s interest in serious relationships.

Nicaddicted · 2022-02-17T18:11:57+00:00

You must be going out on very odd nights or the wrong place?

Of course if you go to some shit shack bar and grill with a smoke sesh open on a Wednesday night the place will be 10:1 men to woman.

Now if you go to a popular night club on a Friday or Saturday it’s going to be different.

ohdiddly · 2022-02-17T04:21:06+00:00

Y’all vehemently slut shame, belittle, and dehumanise women who seek out sexual relationships and you wonder why women aren’t as interested in seeking out sexual relationships as men are.

Loud_Bouya · 2022-02-17T03:47:30+00:00

Unfortunately the women less interested in dating and sex are the best women to have sex with and date.

faeryeve · 2022-02-17T16:31:11+00:00

perhaps modern men are not to blame, but i think it may have a lot to do with men in the past, or rather, simply how society functioned as a whole in the past.

women don’t have to be in relationships to survive anymore. we have all the means to do so on our own, we can have a job, we can own property, we can vote. we don’t need a man to do all that for us now.

women looking for relationships has declined because most women are only looking for love now, not looking for men because they literally have to. which i see as a good thing. probably leads to less loveless relationships and marriages when women’s intentions are not just ‘give me any man that’ll help me survive in this world’ but rather ‘i want a man who can make me happy, and in turn, i can do so for him’.

errrright · 2022-02-17T03:36:32+00:00

I read that 18% of young women reported no sex compared to 28% of young men. This statistic alone proves your point wrong - if you were right, a higher percentage of women would have reported no sex.

I think there are a few reasons why there is a decline in sex -

Young men’s participation in the workforce is on a downward trend. Women don’t usually seek out unemployed men.
A lot of young men (and women too) live with their parents, which can make bringing sexual partners home difficult.
Technology. Smart phones, video games, and evolving social media have given us limitless entertainment. Quiet, bored moments that used to present opportunities for sex have become virtually nonexistent.

RabbitNRaccoon · 2022-02-17T05:38:42+00:00

There was always less benefit for women. Duh.

That's the reason men literally forced women to depend on men for survival.

Now women can make the choice to date or not.

The outcome?

Less men are getting picked because women are choosing themselves and a quiet life and not a man.

There need to be less women Dating. More single, childfree women in the world.

It's not our responsibility to fulfill any man's needs. Ever.

icanchi · 2022-02-17T12:47:39+00:00

Yes it's true. I decline to have intercourse with a male because chances to get an orgasm with them it's 68%. The chances decrease even more if it's a casual encounter. Most males just don't give a fuck about our pleasure. Add this factor to the fact a huge amount of men around the world have poor hygiene, haven't tested for an std in ages, have shitty personality or are just misogynist. I'd prefer have 11 seconds of satysfier and continue with my day.

Watch_the_backflip · 2022-02-17T04:26:35+00:00

Who cares if they aren't interested?

Outside of procreation, what can a modern woman do for you that you can't do for yourself?

Focus on becoming the best man you can be and the women will happily wait at the finish line for you to claim with the other cash and prizes.

Letting sex be your focus is how trashy women make good men slaves.

Marketing_Baboon · 2022-02-17T03:59:09+00:00

I don’t know about that. Women are still in the game, they’re just passive. Nothing new there. Young men are checking out entirely.

midwestufohunter · 2022-02-17T06:20:01+00:00

Porn makes men less interesting.

Minute-Lie-2287 · 2022-02-17T06:55:44+00:00

For all the comments about work load.

Here it is , women don't NEED a man's money anymore...that's not to say they won't take full advantage if they can ( who wouldn't really)

Lifestyles have largely done away with " man chores" at home and men aren't picking up the the low physical demand (typically interior) work at home. In other words not picking up the slack modern lifestyles have created.

For some of us house repairs, car repairs, weed eating and mowing, garden tilling, tree cutting, wood splitting, fence repairs, furniture making, retaining wall building etc. Are actually still a thing but it's the exception not the rule. Men filled this extra time with video games instead of house chores.

In more and more potential pairings ( as women continue to make more and more money) the floor becomes higher and higher for a man to have utility. Less and less men make the 50 percent more than her that is considered to be attractive. If you can't split the bills, pay for your own interests and add vacations, security and better quality of life for the kids to her life then you're just there doing nothing monetarily. If you do add that value but still don't have the heavy domestic chores and can't pick up the lighter ones then that value still isn't really felt.

I am totally fine with women wanting utility from men, we evolved that way. If you've got little or no " man chores" then you'll have to suck it up and take on some traditionally feminine roles.

Simply put if women can't use you, you're useless. Where's the incentive?

sebwiers · 2022-02-17T11:19:39+00:00

There are way fewer young women than young men actively seeking sex and relationships.

In aggregate, men are more professionally successful than women

I don't think that's true for the demographic you originally addressed. Fewer men than women attend college now. The jobs young men traditionally could make good money in are rarer. Maybe your implication is that young women are looking at older men, but that doesn't seem part of your thesis.

Anyhow, the simple fact that young women are putting time towards closing that gap, is a big part of why they put less time towards dating.

juicyjuicery · 2022-02-17T15:32:44+00:00

“There’s no logical reason to make it about men’s behavior” L O L

hemaristhysbe · 2022-02-17T17:53:32+00:00

Anywhere you might go to meet people, whether dating apps, bars, Meetups, or singles events, is typically going to be a sausage fest. More men pausing their video games and showing up to these things would not, in the aggregate, result in any more sex being had or relationships being formed.

Because the women who go out to socialize, mingle, and dance, want to meet other men who socialize, mingle, and dance, not introverts who are role-playing as gregarious and fun in order to get female companionship. It's a trap.

300 aren't getting a job, period.

Because they aren't qualified for the job of dating an extrovert.

and put more effort into their game and social skills.

It's pretty hard to maintain a facade long term. Personalities are relatively static. Men who are practicing "game" and trying out social skills come across as unnatural and ill-at ease; out of their element. And no outgoing, sociable woman wants to get tricked into a relationship with a man who will revert and spend every weekend absorbed in video games instead of running around with friends.

I'm saying it in the most neutral way possible; the population-level trends we're seeing are simply a product of women not prioritizing sex and relationships like they did in decades past.

Men on this forum lean heavily on the claim that women are prioritizing sex and relationships with the same "Top 20%" of men. I disagree with that statement and your claim.

It's not complex and there's no logical reason to make it about men's behavior.

The glut of extra men in social spaces isn't due to a lack of women; it's due to men suddenly filling up social spaces in desperation once they realize they passed up every opportunity to grow and maintain a social circle of like-minded people in school and college. Introverted, introspective men filled the "friends" and "girlfriend" spaces with online conversations and porn, until the day they look around in their late twenties and decide they have no real social circle, no female friends, and no idea how to start over.

pkusan97 · 2022-02-17T18:45:23+00:00

As a woman I agree with some of this but I have to disagree and say a lot of it IS due to men’s behaviour and many woman not wanting a bar of it

markii300 · 2022-02-17T18:59:03+00:00

I think its both, I know a group of girl friends from hs who have never dated or dont have an interest, I also have a group of guy friends who are not interested either.

For me, I've been too burned out by failed relationships and the effort it takes to date so I just gave up.

Pretty sure both men and women are just tired too.

But I do agree with womens lack of interest having a larger affect than men losing interest

GlamSunCrybabyMoon · 2022-02-17T19:12:55+00:00

I don’t want sex or a relationship with men and I haven’t in years.

The men in my family and the boyfriends of my family members never do anything on their own. Their gfs or wives take care of them in one way or another. I already have a kid, I do not want to take care of anyone else right now. I’m happier by myself and no stressors.

Fun_Host7311 · 2022-02-17T19:39:49+00:00

I think people are full of shit nowadays. Posting this perfect little life on social media and then being slobs and miserable in person. See, social media has done the impossible: it makes you perfect. Bad lighting? Add a filter? Empty smile? Add a caption. Feels dull? Add a song. And then, with all these sprinkles and glitters, you come across that perfect person on the street and by God, they're fucking boring and normal! Where's the interest I have in that person? Gone! Social media sets expectations so high, that you have no way of actually making it in real life. You market yourself as this beautiful, finished and quality product that is actually really flawed and people don't want that, they want what they saw. Women want that perfect guy that came from a thousand miles away in a white horse carriage with all the luxuries they dreamt of. They don't fall in love with Charlie from high school and dream about building a life together anymore. I hear women say they want sugar daddies more then ever, along with all these other atrocities from being exposed to way too much tampered content on the web.

bythewatersofBabylon · 2022-02-17T20:18:11+00:00

Excuse me what? "Men are putting more effort into their social life?" The same men who only know how to wear dirty jeans and a t-shirt? Or have been wearing their hair the same way since they were 15 years old? Or the men who use a 3-to-1 soap for body and face? The men who haven't eaten a fruit or a vegetable since their mom used to cut them for them? The same men who are outperformed and outnumbered by young women in universities according to many studies? The same men who can't even bear the thought of treating their date a coffee let alone a dinner to show their appreciation because of EqUAliTy?

You are out of your mind if you actually think that the average man is better than the average woman of 2022. Women of 2022 are educated, earn a living on their own and renting out their apartments by themselves whilst decorating them according to their taste (instead of having just one bed and a TV and calling it a day), eat healthy by cooking for themselves, and actively care about their appearance and make an effort to add variety and character to it with different jewelry, clothing styles, colour, make up etc. All that whilst ALSO being the emotional laborers in the relationships like they always have been. The average man is below the average woman in 2022. And they are very much aware of it. And won't 'settle' for less like they used to even though they still DO want and ARE interested in relationships. They just want a fulfilling one.

sarkington · 2022-02-17T03:40:01+00:00

Plenty of men are only interested in fun and not relationships. Especially when they are young. I and all my friends encountered such

Let us not forget the “take their ball and go home” philosophy of MGTOW and other “the juice isn’t worth the squeeze” groups

Willow-girl · 2022-02-17T05:23:33+00:00

Cleaning up after a man is a lot of work! Can't blame city women who are busy with their careers and hobbies to think that men are more trouble than they're worth. (Not everyone has a herd of cows that need Daddy to take care of them!)

totally___bear · 2022-02-17T05:51:02+00:00

solution>>:

1.get job

2.move out from parents after saving up at least 50k from age 21-29

3.workout routine n diet

party in da club

shawty want a thug

chill

womandatory · 2022-02-17T12:18:56+00:00

It’s almost like there are not enough men competent enough as adults to make women interested in dating. 🤔

It must be women’s fault. 🙄

livs4dietdrpepper · 2022-02-17T03:23:31+00:00

I mean even if you’re scientifically correct, I dont actually know any single woman in my life that doesn’t want a relationship, and isn’t looking

Even if it may not be priority #1, all my girlies desire a relationship

kyle_fall · 2022-02-17T04:32:53+00:00

You're literally 100% wrong. As a young guy, basically, 100% of girls my age(20-30) are interested in sex/dating. If anything it's the men that aren't interested or willing to put the effort into making themselves dateable due to porn, video games, and the current stage of capitalism.

That last one is not talked about much but good luck making yourself economically abundant as a young male in modern western societies.

DreamsOfWishes · 2022-02-17T05:30:43+00:00

I know it's womens lack of interest. I'm one of the women who isn't participating.

Porn isn't the reason I'm not dating, porn is the reason I'm not having casual sex.

I anticipate some "women aren't interested because men suck so much" type comments

No. Women aren't interessted because we live in a digital world and the digital world doesn't provide us with the required information to be interessted.

For example, I'd love to be in a relationship with a STEM-guy, that has a simular background and upbringing as me, that likes to go out to eat as dates like once a month, that's ok with me being slightly workaholic, that is foodie enough to eat the food that I cook, that's a gamer actually and would be ok with me reading a book in the same room while he's gaming, that's sexually open, dark hair and glassess are a high preference, tattoos are a low preference but would make me go nuts, I would like him to love to debate me, ...

Yada yada yada. I can't search for that. I go on an endless amount of dates and spend time together with these dates and I have to find all this information the long ass way.

So I quit.

From what I hear, men fucking love this if they're able to do this. I hate it. I don't want it. Fuck that shit. Nope.

Like y'all keep saying that we're so lucky to have all these men trying to date us on apps and compared to mens side, you are right. I wouldn't want to be a man and have no matches either. Like, I wanna point out that I'm agreeing that your cards suck more then mine.

BUT! My cards suck enough to make me quit dating. I hate dating so much. I hate having endless matches. I want my one guy, not this. No, it ain't great to have so many matches. It really fucking sucks.

spicy_fairy · 2022-02-17T04:49:24+00:00

This take is so mf dumb lol jfc

Cupcakelover1985 · 2022-02-17T03:34:31+00:00

It’s two fold. It’s because both genders are disillusioned with each other and neither side wants to acquiesce to the other because they feel it’s a raw deal. Barring extreme circumstances most people would be able to find a decent partner if they did the self work but there’s a lot of people who overestimate how good of a catch they are. So they feel they don’t have to do any work and only the opposite sex should change. The people who actually are good catches though get paired up quickly or at the very least they’re not bitter about being single. Everyone else is in a sort of limbo waiting for the other side to make a move in their favor. Which it’s why you see a decline in sex and relationships.

hhhhhhhhhiii · 2022-02-17T07:02:58+00:00

I am not interested in dating. That’s not because I think “men suck” I am just more comfortable on my own, maybe one day I’ll meet a dude I like but it is not at all on my radar anymore. I am fully able to depend on myself for recourses, satisfaction, etc. It’s just not a priority for a lot of women anymore and that’s fine

ColdCalc · 2022-02-17T15:46:09+00:00

I respectfully disagree. I have a friend who is basically an incel and I've tried to give him advice.

First, just because you're not a player doesn't make you a nice guy. Many incels think they're nice simply because they're meek. Being a nice guy means treating women well: listening to them, communicating honestly, validating their feelings, etc. So many men think women are illogical because they don't repress their feelings as much. That's not being a nice guy.

Second, meet women on equal terms. My friend isn't just looking for a nice woman. He's looking for a hot woman who also loves Nintendo, anime, and the NHL. Meanwhile he's looking at becoming a 30 year old virgin soon. Yet, many men bemoan that girls are only into lame things and whine that they, the guy, are into cool things. But it's disrespectful to expect a woman to like all your tv shows, hobbies, opinions while disregarding theirs. But this happens all the time. Would it kill you to expose yourself to pop culture by and for women to learn a little bit about the opposite sex? God knows they expose themselves to male-centric pop culture all the time.

Third, prioritize the woman's experience in bed. I know this is jumping ahead a little but it's astonishing how badly many men treat women in the bedroom. Stop spitting in their mouths, choking them, and pounding them (unless of course there's real consent). Just because they suffer these behaviours doesn't mean they like it. I've had a few women tell me recently that I was the first partner they've had that cared about their experience during sex. That's really sad and shows how low the bar has been set.

MsGoogleEyes · 2022-02-17T03:24:16+00:00

way to go… way to not hold men accountable. the only reason there is a decline at all is because of male abusers.

RealNiceLady · 2022-02-17T04:26:45+00:00

No it's due to casual sex

Christian_Kong · 2022-02-17T04:41:59+00:00

Personal experience only but I have known plenty of women in my time and most can't go more than a few weeks without having a man in their life. Even when staying "single" they usually have one or more sex partners.

BasicallyYogurt · 2022-02-17T13:08:24+00:00

You predicted the "men suck" responses perfectly. Which is thoroughly dumb as you said.

Women do prioritize sex, just with very attractive individuals. Due to social media and dating apps it's much easier to find "chads" to bang to fulfill their desires. Ideally they lock them down, but until they get older, it's Chad or nothing.

Men's behavior had changed in response to trends, they are not the cause of them

Pola_Lita · 2022-02-17T05:36:27+00:00

I've literally never heard of a woman who has trouble attracting suitors that are at least comparable in terms of career, looks, and social adeptness.

In whose estimation though? The woman's or the man's?

I've heard lots and lots and lots of women complain that men are way mistaken about their own physical appeal, for starters.

Dogecoin_trader · 2022-02-17T10:26:47+00:00

The problem is that an average woman will see herself as being above average and then look at a guy who is also average and consider him beneath her, not just in terms looks but in general life success. She feels entitled to someone better than her, but doesnt actually offer anything special herself.

Just look at how entitled single mothers and/or middle aged women act on social media, they think they deserve the best and will try to gaslight anyone they can and abuse anyone they cant.

ogsimpology · 2022-02-17T10:59:47+00:00

Video games and porn are huge contributors. It makes men less likely to go and seek out women, or to even engage in other hobbies and be properly motivated on a regular basis.

From what I see in society, women don't waste nearly as much time on video games and pornography. I get it, watching TV shows is equally bad as playing vide games, but since women aren't in an active, pursuing role, they don't need to worry as much.

Therefore, men engaging in things that make them less likely to go after women, is the reason for the decline in sex.

Aswell as men actually having to have a personality now, whereas before women could choose between homelessness and a shitty husband.

BATTERY__AZIZ · 2022-02-17T12:43:11+00:00

Anywhere you might go to meet people, whether dating apps, bars, Meetups, or singles events, is typically going to be a sausage fest. More men pausing their video games and showing up to these things would not, in the aggregate, result in any more sex being had or relationships being formed. More women showing up would.

This is a great point.

Circ-Le-Jerk · 2022-02-17T12:57:45+00:00

I disssagree with you're last part. The population trend declining has nothing to do with women specifically. Back in the day, having a kid was literally considered a valuable asset. You made money by having a kid, because they would soon become a helping hand in the family. If a woman died during childbirth, the husband would immediately find another woman, say who's husband died in war or a factory, marry her, and have more kids. It was economically smart to have as many kids as possible for most people.

Now it's not. Kids no longer have an economical value for parents, and instead act as money sinks. It's a luxury to have kids now, not an asset.

LUCKYMAZE · 2022-02-17T12:58:13+00:00

Women are having sex more than ever! They just have it with the same top men. Dating apps make it so easy.

trudith · 2022-02-17T05:25:35+00:00

Women are not interested because of all those other factors you listed lmfao. Men aint shit these days. Bunch of porn sick limp dick disrespectful weirdos.

nemporisso · 2022-02-17T05:42:51+00:00

I love it when a man frames his worldview as neutral

AreOut · 2022-02-17T08:09:14+00:00

Boyfriends today have become a social accessory for women. The same way as a purse, cat or something else they want to show off.

AnonRb6 · 2022-02-17T11:53:56+00:00

Jordan Peterson did a WONDERFUL take on this topic, with actual stats explaining women in their 30s, 51% of them are childless.

Women literally got brainwashed by the media the past 2 decades and think they are smart. lmao.

Not_Navi_ · 2022-02-17T12:05:06+00:00

"sorry, i only date 9 feet guys"

Robotemist · 2022-02-17T15:59:51+00:00

Women still want relationships, that's the reason why there are numerous articles about them and how miserable women are.

The problem is that modern women are lazy and don't want to put in the work to get them. They want it to happen easily and naturally but most don't leave the couch..

You rarely ever see a woman who looks like she belongs on a runway talking about she doesn't want a relationship. That's because those women can get what they want easily.

Isolation_Man · 2022-02-17T06:30:28+00:00

You forgot the 20/80 rule my dude

DrBoby · 2022-02-17T09:03:07+00:00

There is no decline in casual sex. My grandpa never had sex before marriage. There is simply a decline in LTR which means a decline in sex because people have most sex in LTR.

Decline in LTR (and sex) is due to men's lack of interest in LTR given the conditions.

Men don't need a woman that will divorce in 5 years and make them pay child support. Men are not trying to marry anymore.

You are too young to see this but at around 30-35 you'll be swimming in desperate women. I'm even swimming in women that completely abandoned the idea of LTR and are now only seeking to have a kid alone so they are looking for anonymous men to nut inside them, I fucked 5 of those in 2 years. Single mothers by choice is skyrocketing.

nexLyfe_ · 2022-02-17T13:06:52+00:00

Maybe from an incel perspective this is the case but some of us genuinely occupy our time with more fruitful endeavors than chasing meat sleeves

boomershack · 2022-02-17T14:42:46+00:00

I'd argue against this and say there's no lack of interest. Instead they more prefer to monetise it and most dudes are broke.

Wildhouse83 · 2022-02-17T15:36:27+00:00

In a free dating market combined with the government or women themselves taking care of them, female hypergamy will naturally exclude the majority of men.

MuMuGorgeus · 2022-02-17T16:28:59+00:00

So according to the comments, women no longer wanna settle because now that they are independent they don't have to. Wow that does wonders for our male self worth. Men don't need women either, but at least we appreciate them LOL.

effeteintellectual · 2022-02-17T17:25:09+00:00

Studies show women are more depressed, more neurotic, more anxious, more bipolar, more BPD etc than men. I can’t take PPD women seriously when they claim all these single women are so happy and just waiting for a man that’s a net improvement. Women are not happy go lucky. I don’t know what reality you guys live in but every single woman over 30 seems bitter even if she’s not actively seeking a man.

John1The1Savage · 2022-02-17T18:56:02+00:00

I'm sad now because I agree with you. More evidence that I will never get what I need out of life in order to make life worth living.

Simple-Dimension3806 · 2022-02-17T20:09:39+00:00

Relationships aren't really all that fun and cute and butterflies as we'd want it to be. Real life gets in the way. Sex with women isn't all that hot either apparently. It's just the thought of looking at a really attractive woman and then imagining how amazing the sex would be with her when in reality most women don't really have that raw energy and playfulness. Not in a retarded cliche way that you read in an edgy article and think there's some mechanical process to it. But in an improvisational creative way that requires a very powerful imagination. I mean what are you gonna when all these women start having sex and everyone's collective sexual frustrations are alleviated. It's gonna be a 5 minute nut like you're at a dine and dash,then what? The people having hot sex all the time are the people in adult films. Lot of women in that stuff are actually nymphos who happen to love the easy money it gets them. Think clearly man. People idealizing sacrifice and hardcore romanticism is a thing of the past, at least it was only the men who liked that anyway. Times have changed. There's no going back. No expectations is the best attitude. Maybe. Maybe not.

kblkbl165 · 2022-02-17T04:13:04+00:00

Can't really disagree with it.

Perfectly fine argument that ends in the exact right point.

Bendetto4 · 2022-02-17T10:31:05+00:00

Honestly I have no idea what women do in their spare time?

Sure they shop, and they watch influences on Instagram and YouTube. But what else do they do?

Women: what do you do on say a Wednesday night after you've finished work? As a man, I will play video games, scroll reddit and maybe go on a jog if I feel like it.

LilliaStepOnMe · 2022-02-17T14:27:15+00:00

Wrong, it’s a combination of Chinese propaganda, fear porn politics pretending like climate change going to sink us in 10yrs bs, the fact that the best year for workers wage wise was 1968 and a factor of discrimination and bigotry becoming normalised against white people and soon to be Asian folks

As the lim x -> infinity, f(x) = cold culture war going hot

Ohmaygahh · 2022-02-17T14:55:39+00:00

...There are way fewer young women than young men actively seeking sex and relationships...

There are way fewer young attractive women, period. The 90s were awash with them, even if they were a little ugly in the face, they had banging bodies and were down to play/have fun.

You're onto to something but the truth is this is multifactorial. It's debatable what's moving the needle the most, but what we can all agree on is that the zeitgeist has changed. And it isn't going back to the way things were.

DiabloTheDreamer · 2022-02-17T15:38:59+00:00

I'm just waiting for the shitshow the real one to hit the fan, women will be sorry mark my words.Those men will be the downfall of society we will all see that happening in the years to come i don't care anymore

nothatyoucare · 2022-02-17T04:11:01+00:00

Lets talk about the rise of Karenism with women. The fact that society isn't talking more about women being out of control is telling.

Title	The rapid societal decline in sex and relationships is solely due to women's lack of interest
Author	SupermarketFun21
Upvotes	173
Comments	496
Date	February 17, 2022 3:06 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/suea9e/the_rapid_societal_decline_in_sex_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-rapid-societal-decline-in-sex-and.1101853 https://theredarchive.com/post/1101853

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