Men are angry about the current dating dynamics because they don't want to feel cucked.

jamalzia · 2025-07-10T18:52:28+00:00

"Feel cucked" is the wrong framing, men want to be desired by their woman more than any other man. It's that simple.

So there is some truth to the annoyance/insecurity guys feel with certain women's approach to dating long term vs short term: some women will have casual sex with men they are attracted to in the short term but for a variety of reasons aren't interested in dating long term (or for some of these women they are interested and it's the guys who aren't).

They do this in the past, but when they come across you, they are sexually protective and are much slower to engage in that dynamic until the relationship gets going. I can totally understand the frustration guys feel about this, the whole "so you'll give sex to the random hook up at a party you barely know or don't really care about but you care about me so you don't want to have sex yet? Make it make sense ffs..."

There are so many stories of married men finding out that their wife was a party girl in her younger years, doing all kinds of crazy stuff that she would never do with him. This isn't the man feeling cucked, it's him feeling undesired. And it's true lol, she desired to do all that stuff with other men, she doesn't desire to do it with him.

Again, the reasons behind all these behaviors can get complex, but the point stands that men (who are not promiscuous themselves) are justified in being cautious about women who were promiscuous. Other than some chronically online red piller, most men aren't looking for virgins, they are looking for a woman who only has eyes for him. Not just eyes for him, eyes filled with immense desire and appreciation and respect that no other man can match, which is why they're together in the first place.

Now, in defense of those former hoes who truly love her husband, I can see why it's frustrating for her that men bring up her past, because in a way hooking up with random guys is superficial and meaningless, the love with her man that she experiences is profound and beautiful. And this quickly reveals the problem: that treating sex like a handshake, a simply fun activity that feels good, who cares if it's with a stranger you barely know, ends up calling into question your ability to profoundly connect with someone through sex, with love.

I much rather marry a woman who's had sex 500 times with 1 man that she genuinely loved than marry a woman who's had sex 1 time with 500 men each. And it's a bit sad that this is no longer obviously true to some people.

Desperate_Coat_5244 · 2025-07-10T18:44:01+00:00

Where exactly did you get the idea that men who hookup want a woman with low body count? I want someone with as much experience as I do so we can relate and share our crazy stories without the other feeling bad about it.

NoShortMen4Me · 2025-07-10T19:20:30+00:00

It’s the same as men choosing some women to hookup with and others to have a relationship with. Some to have a relationship with and others to marry.

TSquaredRecovers · 2025-07-10T20:18:23+00:00

All of the experienced men I’ve known have gone on to date and marry women who are also experienced. And these are desirable men who have their pick of women. This obsession with virgins and body counts is really not something that most normie men share.

WebNew9978 · 2025-07-10T19:22:51+00:00

I think me just want a more fair and realistic chance at dating and they want to be one of the top choices for a woman. That doesn’t mean he wants to the top choice but it also means he doesn’t want to be a woman’s 10th+ choice either.

At my age, I realize that if I ever get intimate with a woman, she’ll be the first woman I experience with while on the other side, she’ll already have experience of being with a man. I just don’t want to be that woman’s 10th+ man to experience it with. Quite frankly I don’t think I’m wrong for wanting that as well.

NothingOrAllLife · 2025-07-10T18:42:50+00:00

This always confuses me. It makes me think that men that think this way aren’t having the sex they want with their gf.

I feel like even if you have to wait for whatever reason, for sex and it’s good and she’s being an engaging partner physically and emotionally, the guy won’t be upset that she had whatever with some dude in the past.

However, if the woman is “making him wait”, doing little to help to help the relationship grow while also making her current partner feel unsure, then I’d see his point. But I don’t think a guy can be in a happy, healthy, satisfying relationship, find out his gf has a hookup in the past and then be mad he didn’t hookup on night one.

Flightlessbirbz · 2025-07-11T00:45:25+00:00

Being “cucked” is being cheated on. What you’re describing is called “retroactive jealousy.” And it can be normal in certain circumstances, to a degree. For example, you see a picture of their ex and they’re like… very noticeably more attractive than you, or if they make some cruel or thoughtless comment about their ex being better in some way.

But the level of fixation you’re describing isn’t as normal as you think. It’s also just inaccurate to assume that women always have this “feral attraction” to guys they’ve hooked up with, but are “meh” about guys they date seriously. It mostly has to do with timing, place, mood. (For hookups, often being: just broke up, bar/club, drunk.) Women are also generally FAR more likely to be open to trying kinky new stuff with a long-term partner vs a hookup. Hookups tend to be vanilla af since there’s no trust established and nobody knows what the other likes.

As someone who’s had a grand total of two hookups, I can tell you that one was the result of both of us being touch-starved and lonely after COVID lockdowns, and one was the result of a chance encounter with an online friend, while upset over an ex. Both involved alcohol, and both were completely unmemorable compared to the sex I’ve had with my husband. Both also wanted to date me, but I just wasn’t in the right mindset at the time. So as you can see, this idea that a woman’s hookups are these hot guys she’s having wild sex with and would marry if she could… just isn’t always (or even often) the case.

ta06012022 · 2025-07-10T19:33:22+00:00

As a guy who's had a lot of hookups, a few fwbs, and a handful of long term relationships, I don't really follow the logic of this post.

Most hookups don't turn into more than hookups, but all of my LTRs (outside of high school) started as hookups/sex on the first date and evolved into committed relationships over time. There's no reason for me to think that those women desired me less than the men they just hooked up with simply because they continued to sleep with me. It's weird logic.

Men just know if the guy was open to LTR then the girl would have absolutely chosen the other guy not him.

This is also a really weird assumption based on my experience. I had a couple girls who were fwbs/serial hookups who I wanted a relationship with, but for various reasons they didn't want a relationship with me. I also hooked up with a girl who had a boyfriend and she eventually cut it off and stuck with the boyfriend.

There were plenty of other cases where I would hook up with a girl I met at a party or otherwise, then when I would text her a few days later, I would get no response or a short response with no engagement. Then the next weekend or the following weekend I would get a late night text from her asking me to come over. We would hook up and the cycle would repeat for weeks sometimes before she would just fade away eventually.

I found that when I was younger (mostly college age), it wasn't that unusual to encounter that type of scenario. Beyond 22 or so, I found it far less common to fund women who weren't looking for commitment at all.

Superannuated_punk · 2025-07-10T18:51:06+00:00

You feel cucked by a 24 year old woman who’s had a grand total of two (2) hookups?

This isn’t a preference dude. This is something you need to get past.

TermAggravating8043 · 2025-07-10T19:36:47+00:00

That sounds awfully like main character syndrome

The big difference I’ve noticed between men and women in this sub, is men need to ensure their potential partner hasn’t “given” anyone anything she wouldn’t give him, their always threatened by the thought of another man in her life, you must be her best man ever and it must be instant or it can’t be real.

Whereas women have more of the mindset that she genuinely doesn’t care what you did or with who did it with, she’s only concerned with how you treat her.

I think women are doing it better. Hence why more men are angry and single

Icyfemboy · 2025-07-10T18:50:57+00:00

But how do you know if she barely knew the guy she hooked up with? Maybe they were long time friends and decided to have some fun? There can be more scenarios too but I can’t come up with any I’m sleepy 😴

Hard_Corsair · 2025-07-10T18:55:13+00:00

Sure, but this is an emotional reaction based on ignorance. The disgruntled men who feel cucked do so because they're attributing the past hookup to the man being attractive rather than the woman being less inhibited because sex was new and exciting, as it was for most of us when we were naive hormonal teenagers. Men are bitter that everyone grew up, then place that blame unfairly on women.

Major-Platypus2092 · 2025-07-10T18:38:55+00:00

Essentially it seems like what you're saying is men are angry about dating dynamics because they're insecure.

Thinking you're "below" a one night stand is sad. It's about what you value. I value my long-term relationship. I'd be really sad if all I got from her was one night of drunk sex, and I feel bad for any man experiencing the same.

I guess I'm not sure what the argument is here. I'm engaged, and she does have a "feral attraction" with me. But she also wanted more with me. What a bummer for the dudes who she only had a "feral attraction" with. That sucks for them.

leosandlattes · 2025-07-10T18:41:26+00:00

If men want to be the guy that bangs within the first few dates, then he needs to be the kind of guy that escalates and gets her horny enough to do that. I was making out with my bf on the first date, and slept with him on the second.

And you need to stop dating women who don't want to have sex with you within ~3 dates or whatever you limit is.

How hard is that?

Nobody is forcing you to continue seeing these women.

Velocirappthor · 2025-07-10T18:43:50+00:00

Sounds right. They imagined something, then felt insecure, then lashed out on women, and women are not able to convince them otherwise, all they say are brought to grotesque.

I would argue that the fact that men don’t think “i want to control women” doesn’t mean they don’t want that.

toasterchild · 2025-07-10T18:42:43+00:00

Women don't just get feral sexual energy by looking at a guy or by going on a date and taking about work and family. If you show up to a date with barely any sexual energy stop bitching that someone else got more once.

When 2 people get together the sexual energy is the combo of what they both bring. Since women tend to have more of a responsive sex drive what the man shows up with plays a major role on what response he gets.

Has she even complained about your sex life? Chances are she's fine with it even if she did have someone who was more exciting once. Like you said a meaningful relationship is often better. Youre cucking yourself over nothing.

Ok_Cartographer_7483 · 2025-07-10T19:08:37+00:00

This is an example of toxic male entitlement and resentment.

rosephase · 2025-07-10T18:37:24+00:00

You are right dudes who think that way are super angry.

I would add they also unhealthy and obsessive and that will make it extremely hard to ever have a happy mutual relationship.

Dudes who don’t think like that are much better at creating relationships. And there are a lot of them. I would say the majority of men aren’t so deeply insecure and obsessed.

Schleudergang1400 · 2025-07-10T20:01:36+00:00

"men" .. then you just talk about insecure men who have retroactive jealousy.

None of those thoughts ever crossed my mind. If i feel desired by a woman does not depend on her sexual past. Barely any woman has a notable past. Median lifetime sex partners is ~5. Go be with one of those women, who only had serious boyfriends before you (which where also better in bed than you, bigger dick, and she often thinks about them when you fuck her... see, your mind can craft any fear you want)

AllelWasHere · 2025-07-10T19:51:40+00:00

It's crazy to assume that the woman wanted and could not acquire an LTR with a guy she hooked up with instead of actually doing what she did, which is hooking up.

Repeating what everyone else has said. This is toxic insecurity on the side of the guy who imagines that women's 'default' is pristine purity, but she was driven wild by some uncontrollable overwhelming attraction that you fail to arouse in her. It's like you're incapable of seeing women as exploring sexuality, commitment, and inhibitions LIKE ALL HUMANS DO in their late teens/early adulthood. Just another symptom of not seeing women as people.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2025-07-10T18:40:22+00:00

Sounds like insecurity to me.

Weak men lash out in fear.

Whiskeymyers75 · 2025-07-11T05:56:33+00:00

Eventually you reach an age where you no longer give a shit about things like this.

klaire_bear_ · 2025-07-10T19:48:13+00:00

You arent entitled to women. FFS.

If who another person has slept with in the past feels like a personal attack on your self worth you need some introspection, reflection, and to challenge your own ideas of women.

Prior-Impression-871 · 2025-07-10T19:31:43+00:00

Men just know if the guy was open to LTR then the girl would have absolutely chosen the other guy not him.

It's not as apparent in real life even if the sentiment is the same to an extent, but the longer I think about it I genuinely think men largely don't get the way women think. And we don't think with our dicks

Epthewoodlandcritter · 2025-07-10T23:23:55+00:00

How irrational and silly. Men should try to be less emotional and more logical.

Nellylocheadbean · 2025-07-10T20:04:05+00:00

So just date women that desires you the way you want to be desired. Is that not the whole point of dating? To find someone you’re compatible with?

Confident_Counter471 · 2025-07-10T18:38:24+00:00

This just sounds like deep insecurity and that’s extremely unattractive…

Money_Sink_4126 · 2025-07-10T21:19:49+00:00

Eh men imo especially younger ones are told they have to wait while the women waste their best years on dudes who don't want them and then average Joe is supposed to be grateful she finally gives him a chance to finance her life, kids etc after she's declining in appearance and put in weight.

Avast_Lion · 2025-07-10T20:06:08+00:00

Women also want to feel desired. I think everyone’s ideal relationship is with someone who has only ever had eyes for them. I don’t see why men should be more angry about that than women are.

_weedkiller_ · 2025-07-11T11:39:30+00:00

Why are you assuming the guy in your hypothetical scenario doesn’t inspire the same “feral attraction” she had towards hookups?

You cannot blame things women did before they met you for your insecurity.

If you have such low self esteem that you feel threatened by past relationships then you are not ready for a relationship. You need therapy first so you can separate your self worth from the false concept of “masculinity”.

If this couple stay together he will be jealous and controlling.

Clownrisha · 2025-07-11T14:19:47+00:00

All of this writing you could've just genuinely asked women or the thousands of feminist and women studies philosophers who discuss this very phenomenon you're talking about. All of this complaining and you could've , idk, read a book on female sexuality? Read into the Madonna/Whore complex (which you are unconsciously playing into)

Women sleep with guys they don't like faster than guys they do like because guys don't like when you sleep with them. It's that simple. Start treating women who reward you with sex with respect and dignity and the women who desire dignity and respect from you will give you sex. Stop calling women whores or implying by sleeping with men it lowers their value(all things you're doing here) .

I can tell you from personal experience, as a women who intensely and deeply desires sex, my female and male friends all told me to STOP having sex with the guys I liked. As I was giving him "the wrong idea" and thus not seen as relationship material. The advice women get is not to have sex with the man they like lest they consider them a whore. So if you want that to change stop categorizing women as hoes.

So no, it's not about absolute Desire. It's about what the women have been saying, y'all not wanting a women whose a hoe, feeling like a hoe doesn't deserve the right to say no to you, and not really understanding the way they see and treat sexually promiscuous women with their friends is how most (misogynistic) men are. So no, even when you give the "nerd" some cookie on the first date cause you like his MTG cards he'll still think you're a ho.

Guys like you make no sense, it's like you're mad some women let men pipe but also mad they're not letting EVERYONE pipe?

ConfusedPuddle · 2025-07-11T20:27:28+00:00

Lmao, what a wild way to look at a relationship. We know that you are insecure about past relationships, thats the problem. Its not up to women to tip toe around your weird insecurities.

If you feel "cucked" because your partner has a past beyond you then you need some therapy or something brother.

Physical_Sherbet199 · 2025-07-10T19:48:37+00:00

Men here: how dare you say we hate women you bitter feminazi!

Also men here: if she ever has casual sex ever in her life before we even met then she is cucking me!

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-07-10T18:41:51+00:00

I’m told men get nothing at all, because women are too picky, demanding, and have tons of options

Realistic-Ad-1023 · 2025-07-10T20:13:50+00:00

Sex with a loving long term relationship is always greater than a one night stand and we all know it. It's not about being jealous that they can't get hookups. Men just know if the guy was open to LTR then the girl would have absolutely chosen the other guy not him.

No. Absolutely no. I dropped many hookups specifically because they tried to escalate to LTR and that’s not what they were good for. I did end up marrying a FWB, but because we were actually compatible. Not because I needed to settle down or because he couldn’t do better. We decided mutually amongst others that we were it.

More people should date that way. But dudes who aren’t good for hookups will never get hookups by shaming women who hookup. You can be insecure and not take it out on your partner. Wild, I know.

Also - most women aren’t hooking up with anyone. Assuming that a woman taking her time with you has some secret past she’s hiding from you is insane. This dichotomy of “whore who all of a sudden takes her time with me because I’m not good enough” doesn’t exist. It’s a rage bait fantasy. Maybe shot got drunk once and had a hookup and deeply regretted it. But the whole Chad widow who fucked dudes on a first date for a decade before meeting you and not sleeping with you for months - doesn’t exist. If it does, she isn’t into you. Period. Get out of your own head and maybe yall would actually find girlfriends. But you’re so busy being angry at made up scenarios you’re angry at women before you even meet them.

Sluts and party girls are rare. And we usually marry other sluts and fuck boys who also grew up. Don’t worry - we aren’t turning vanilla just to settle with some beta. I promise. The stories of a man finding out his wife has a “past” is like “I found out my wife begrudgingly put up with anal once from a man who badgered and threatened her for it when she was 19 and he got her drunk enough to say yes. Now she refuses to do it with me, so I want a divorce!” Again the whole slut to vanilla pipeline isn’t happening. Also slutty sex can be vanilla sex. Choosing sex with lots of partners can be just as vanilla as sex with your husband. You just choose one person you actually like now. But again - average sexual partners over a lifetime is 7. Fucking seven. Seven partners in a lifetime and you’re one does not a slut make.

SeveralSadEvenings · 2025-07-10T19:38:59+00:00

men of 2025; still doing the most to make sure their insecurities are some poor woman's problem.

cutegolpnik · 2025-07-10T18:55:12+00:00

Okay? And I want to marry a billionaire doctor. I don’t wanna be cucked by settling for someone poorer and dumber.

You’re just describing hypergamy.

throwaway164_3 · 2025-07-10T19:38:06+00:00

Why she didn't have the feral attraction towards me like she did have with others guy she barely knew and hooked up with them, was I not enough?

Yes. You were not hot enough

Next question please

JadeGrapes · 2025-07-10T21:36:10+00:00

I guess my thought is... she was a stranger before you met her, right?

So how is it comfortable to let a stranger's behavior control your self worth?

It literally had nothing to do with you, so how are you making it about you?

Think about how much you have change in the last 5-10 years as a person. Friendships, hobbies, jobs, pets, diet, exercise, grooming, music you listen to, communication skills, how much self control you have... you've grown as a person right?

Does how much you masturbated as a teen have anything to do with how frequent or infrequent it is now? Probably in highschool you had a billion embarrassing boners that didn't really mean anything.

Should your future wife look back at those teen years snd think, why isn't he having 20 boners for me now? How disrespectful!

Like what if she insisted on seeing your porn history for all of your highschool years, then hated herself for having the "wrong" hair-color now?

It's kinda like that.

Foyles_War · 2025-07-10T19:46:55+00:00

Why she didn't have the feral attraction towards me like she did have with others guy she barely knew and hooked up with

Dude, you do realize it almost certainly wasn't "feral attraction?" She was probably just fucking curious about fucking and a better than even chance there was alcohol involved.

No one in your scenario is "getting cucked." She didn't even know you, dude.

Here's a suggestion, don't ask the question. The only thing you need to know is if she has no experience (because that should effect your approach and the level of knowedgeable consent you need to be getting) or relative experience. Asking specifics is evidence of a strange obsession and likely hangups that you need to work on because they are about your insecurity.

You want someone who can commit to a monogamous relationship with you? Cool, ask THAT! That's very mature and not at all insulting or weird.

GridReXX · 2025-07-10T19:35:25+00:00

When I first joined PPD it was frequented by countless Red Pillers whose biggest clapbacks to whoever they deemed to be a woman or a non-TRPer were “facts over feelings” and “your fee fees don’t matter.”

Similar to those clapbacks, these men you’re talking about were not actually “cucked.” They simply weren’t.

Their feelings are based on their desire to have a woman who’s only ever been with him and no one else.

He needs to marry a virgin or collect a harem of virgins (sarcasm) or stay single or seek therapy to optimistically cope with not getting the “ideal” you want.

LimbBisquet · 2025-07-11T00:57:04+00:00

Just when I thought this sub couldn’t get more autistic and regarded.

Itsthethrowaway2 · 2025-07-10T18:48:19+00:00

If this is how you feel only person to be “angry” at is yourselves. The girl in your hypothetical scenario didn’t do anything wrong.

mar-uh-wah-nuh · 2025-07-10T18:53:55+00:00

Why would a man feel insecure about hookups? I've only ever hooked up with people who I have no interest in dating or likely even speaking to in the future. Viewing someone as more than a hookup is a compliment.

My partner of seven years does not care about my sexual history.

Edit: In fact, my partner wanted to wait to have sex longer than I did because he felt we had a strong connection. He didn't want to rush into things.

No-Hovercraft-455 · 2025-07-10T23:55:22+00:00

I think you summed up feelings that go to it rather well. And all of those are human emotions that make sense. Put like that I don't have much against the point. Of course in reality reasons why people do things at certain points of their lives can be more complex, and none of that does anything to justify treating ones partner like crap, but those emotions can exist without toxic fantasies contributing to it.

Maybe only very minor thing I don't like about post is the expression of give sex because it's not giving and that framing needs to go. That doesn't change overall point and it could as well say have sex and it would still convey what you mean about perceived eagerness and desire.

MidnightDefiant1575 · 2025-07-11T01:13:41+00:00

Interesting post OP, especially because it resulted in so many responses that revealed an immediate emotional reaction from commenters that revealed the tremendous diversity of standards/conduct out there. If it had been a different sub, there would be an even greater diversity of opinions. The majority of people on this string think that casual sex is a normal phase that everyone goes through and then grows up, is a healthy compliment to LTRs throughout life, or is not great but a normal reaction to boredom, lack of better alternatives, etc. Perhaps a more representative type of sample would be found in some of the strings on dating-related subs that I've seen that ask 'is sex on the first or second date advisable' and the responses (primarily from women) range from 'always a great idea' to 'maybe a good idea if the person is right' to 'it's always a terrible idea and I'm so sick of men trying to get sex from me right away that I'm giving up dating'. What I get from that is there is a lot of friction out there because there are so many different philosophies and codes of conduct.

Of course, what you have is one scenario, and not much context for the woman's behavior. In a lot of cases, a man would say 'wow, you've only had two sexual partners at your age?' or 'wow, you've only had two hookups?" Some men might say something like 'oh, you haven't had any LTRs?' (as in red flag for a guy that focuses on LTRs) or 'is that because you don't like sex much? (another type of flag for a guy that's sex-focused). And still others would say 'I know, it's a real bitch trying to meet anyone nowadays' or 'guess they were crappy hookups huh?' (more empathetic). And then there's the context. A man focused on LTRs (as in attractive and capable like maybe 20 or 25% of male population) might ask the question and then find out that the woman always wanted an LTR but was very ill for 5 years and as a result could only manage having two hookups, and then have tremendous sympathy for her. Or she might say something like 'I only go for really good-looking, rich Chads that get me wet right away, at least until my mother and sisters convinced me that I needed to get married', resulting in a very different reaction.

And who knows what she thinks about his prior conduct and philosophy - that could be cause for a whole different type of explosive outcome.

There are a lot of men and women out there that want to find someone that is compatible with them, and that compatibility includes a similar - and perhaps low - number of sexual partners, and there can be a lot of valid reasons for that desire. On the other hand, there are a lot of men and women that have been having sex with a lot of other people for many years, and they can't believe that any 'normal' person wouldn't have done the same thing. That's where the friction comes in. From what I can see, a lot of people are angry and frustrated and withdrawing from dating/sex/relationships because of it. While I'm lucky enough to be quite happy with my situation, I think it's a tragedy that there are so many unhappy people out there.

Powerful_Monitor3659 · 2025-07-11T10:49:26+00:00

It's so bizarre to me that people are discussing their sexual pasts with their partner, let alone ask about it.

I've never been asked about my sexual past and I've never asked a partner.

-Pixxell- · 2025-07-10T19:38:35+00:00

This is such a wild take hahah wtf. I can’t say I’ve ever ran into this issue with the men that I’ve dated.

I haven’t been with heaps of people or anything like that but all of the people that I have been in serious relationships with started out casually and then gradually evolved into something serious, so they did experience that ‘feral attraction’ hookup side first lol. I don’t think I’d ever pursue a serious relationship with someone without understanding whether we were sexually compatible first (among other levels of compatibility too of course like personality, humour, life values and goals).

Novadina · 2025-07-10T20:56:42+00:00

I’m so confused with your logic.

Are you saying if a woman sleeps with a man once that means she has “feral attraction” to a guy. But if she sleeps with him more times and wants to continue sleeping with him in the future and even falls in love with him and possibly wants to have his babies… that means she’s not attracted to him???

Have you ever been in love? Especially in the beginning, that is more likely to be the “feral attraction” where you can’t keep your hands off each other and just thinking about the person can get you worked up, and you can’t sleep thinking about them (or the sex you had with them), when you see them you just want to touch and kiss them everywhere. I remember after the first time I slept with my now husband I visited my mom and she told me I was glowing, she kept asking if something good happened to me.

Casual sex is usually because someone isn’t in a relationship at that time but is still horny and wants a fun night. And sometimes if the casual sex is good it may become more sex and evolve to a relationship.

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Xeltar · 2025-07-10T22:07:42+00:00

Why she didn't have the feral attraction towards me like she did have with others guy she barely knew and hooked up with them, was I not enough? I'll always be below the guy she chose to hookup with or I'm compensating for it by my personality and efforts

I don't know anybody who treats men differently like you suggest unless they themselves have changed and just wouldn't be having casual sex with anyone anymore. Clearly if they're not longer with those guys, that's evidence enough. When are you asking this question lol?

There are so many stories of married men finding out that their wife was a party girl in her younger years, doing all kinds of crazy stuff that she would never do with him. This isn't the man feeling cucked, it's him feeling undesired. And it's true lol, she desired to do all that stuff with other men, she doesn't desire to do it with him.

That is probably just a life stage thing, where you explore things that you like and don't like. And wholly irrational to be insecure over it. If she tells you she had tried sleeping with other women and decided it wasn't for her, would you feel undesired? What difference does it make if it's some other guys?

Again, the reasons behind all these behaviors can get complex, but the point stands that men (who are not promiscuous themselves) are justified in being cautious about women who were promiscuous. Other than some chronically online red piller, most men aren't looking for virgins, they are looking for a woman who only has eyes for him. Not just eyes for him, eyes filled with immense desire and appreciation and respect that no other man can match, which is why they're together in the first place.

Sure you are well within your rights to be selective about anything including promiscuity, I think it's a silly thing to care about for the reasons outlined above but you can have whatever preference you want.

I much rather marry a woman who's had sex 500 times with 1 man that she genuinely loved than marry a woman who's had sex 1 time with 500 men each. And it's a bit sad that this is no longer obviously true to some people.

Different people have different values and it's important to find a partner who is compatible with you in values.

Successful-Claim-473 · 2025-07-11T08:22:01+00:00

I don't get it, is this post saying anything new? The concept that sexual and romantic attraction are two different things is pretty well known.

Edit: that's not really "female nature", that's just part of being a human and the relationship between those two types of attraction is going to be different for different people, and I don't think there's a notable difference between men and women in that regard

Superb-Foundations · 2025-07-11T08:59:51+00:00

Maybe it has more to do with when you're young you do reckless things. Did I have a hot takeout session with a guy in a bar a decade ago? Yeah. When I was 21. Would i do it now? Nope. Now I think about consequences.

OndeVerge · 2025-07-11T11:55:14+00:00

I actually agree here

Fluffy-Pickle549 · 2025-07-11T15:13:38+00:00

If she has this attitude, it’s because some guys just flat out leave once you hook up with them. She wants to see if you’ll wait too and not be a jerk about it. Sure some guys aren’t, but some are. Also we’re judged for hooking up with even guys we care about too soon, or we’re worried from a girls perspective “will he assume I’m a slut? Too easy?” Even if we really like you. Or we’re told good luck having anything serious you hook up that fast. He won’t respect you! Be a high value woman as if having sex too soon makes you not have value?

Hard_Corsair · 2025-07-11T18:04:55+00:00

...if they're not hateful then nobody is applying that label. By definition, the label only refers to the hateful ones. The frustrated male virgin that keeps his frustration to himself and doesn't subscribe to grift content isn't an incel. There is more to the term that the most literal application of the words it derives from.

No. Nobody gets to have a chip on their shoulder without expecting derision in response. Exhibiting such behavior is uncouth.

You seem to be taking a stance that these men are fated to failure, rather than being a stone's throw from success if they could only get out of their own way. Even if the world is as gynocentric as you make it out to be, individual men can still adapt to be favored in a gynocentric world. They just have to be willing to pay the price of change.

Emergency-Sell-6713 · 2025-07-11T23:51:48+00:00

"Why she didn't have the feral attraction towards me like she did have with others guy she barely knew and hooked up with them, was I not enough? I'll always be below the guy she chose to hookup with or I'm compensating for it by my personality and efforts"

Matthew 7:12, quote : do to others what you want them to do to you

Women think that not getting feral over a man is a sign of respect, love, and actual desire, because that's how they'd take it if it were done to them. If what you're asking to be done to men, was done to women, they would actually take it as in "I have no value to him...? I am just a thing to be used and tossed away ??". Women think of men as other women and men think of women as other men.

EDIT that I added a minute after : So when women do that, they don't want to insult you, they want to make you feel appreciated but they think that everybody has the same mentality as a woman like them : Women don't want to start objectifying men, because they certainly would not like that done to themselves so they don't to it to men either. Still, it is what we need to do, objectify men, because they actually want it.

nr_guidelines · 2025-07-12T01:20:36+00:00

It's also different when she fucked a Chad you can't compete with whose sperm feels like penetrating the condom into corrupting her family line's genetic soul for 5 generations, and automatically gets her obsessed

versus when she fucked Billy Bibbit who stutters and slouches, who she pity-fucked

Terrible_Lift · 2025-07-12T04:22:47+00:00

So many of us men have high enough body counts that we would have to think back long and hard and still end up missing a few. Do you think I want to explain that? Fuck no. So I don’t even ask about body count

This is more true of the less experienced men I think

happybaby00 · 2025-07-10T19:00:57+00:00

Rule 6 pill been saying this haha

P.S mods if its against the rules to write this comment I apologise in advance and will promptly delete if told to do so 🙏🏿

Fun_Breakfast697 · 2025-07-10T19:21:59+00:00

I think it's incredibly misandrist to describe men as being universally this fucking pathetic when a lot of them are simply normal.

Ok_Use7 · 2025-07-10T20:39:23+00:00

Y’all are always mad at the girl, if anything you should be mad at yourselves.

You wanted to be that guy who she had feral attraction towards but you didn’t do anything on the first date. You didn’t flirt, you didn’t escalate, you didn’t do anything to get her going because you were likely scared (which is fine, we’ve all been there).

The other guy wasn’t.

Don’t be mad at her for falling for what you didn’t even attempt. You could have and she probably would have fucked you just like the other guy but you didn’t make your move that way.

A lot of you would be better off accepting your insecurity and being accountable for your own lack of action instead of making excuses and blaming others.

AnonPinkLady · 2025-07-10T21:11:43+00:00

Idk how many times I have to explain that hook ups are more often about loneliness, boredom or desperation than the so-called "feral attraction" that people on here think they are. Just a lot of men on here would probably take just about whatever they can get, when women hook up, it's more often just what is available as meaningless sex does not have to be anything special. The whole point of a hook up is to get the sexual urges out of your system and go about your life afterwards- a guy just has to be tolerable at that point tbh. This whole hook ups stem from wild feral attraction and unbearable lust is just porn logic.

DGenerationMC · 2025-07-10T22:15:45+00:00

So, in essence, the problem for/with these men (their feelings) is strictly internal, got it.

SteveSan82 · 2025-07-11T00:41:05+00:00

I have a pretty high notch count and I get hookups pretty easily and lots of “ what are we” moments. But I’d never LTR a hookup.

My girlfriend is 23 years younger than me and I took her virginity. She cooks, cleans, is feminine, wants kids and isn’t a pain in the ass except for the occasional shit test.

NoDanaOnlyZuuI · 2025-07-11T02:19:17+00:00

If your self worth hinges on whether she moaned louder for some guy at a frat party ten years ago, that’s not about her. That’s you cucking yourself by obsessing over a past you weren’t even part of. Don’t ask questions you can’t handle the answers to. Honestly, I’m beginning to think it’s a kink for some of you

kzgOmniFusion · 2025-07-11T05:37:06+00:00

Im not sure how we were intended to respond to this critique of female nature, however, I believe that most guys CAN have a woman be infatuated with him.. But what blocks them is all of this absolute mind fuckery I just read... Physical attraction matters to get you in the door, sure...

But you CAN still get in the door for relationships if you aren't super attractive. And once your in the door, as in, once your on a date with her or whatever else, whats gonna determine whether she wants to be riding you or not is how you show up as a man. Can you contain yourself? Can you contain your emotions, and attune to her expression while still being solid within your centre?...

Theres a big disparity between guys complaining, and failing to realise that the reason they get the blunt end of the stick is because they have not met themselves deeply enough. If you have done the work to be aware of your own insecurities, and to have real confidence, without being a weirdo, because real confidence is silent. You dont need to be validated... Anyways etc etc...

MY CONCLUSION IS...

TL;DR:

Your only insecure of your woman sucking tyrone's dick in the past and not sucking your dick properly now because you are insecure and dont know yourself, really. If you were she would wanna fuck you every second, not because of your physical attraction but how you carry yourself.

I will say though, "Hot" guys, its often easier for them to become that secure in themselves because they receive validation which kinda helps them be able to face themselves deeper, and so they can often contain women better because often they can contain themselves better...

For my contentionally "Unattractive" guys, this is my advice--Learn to meditate, pray, it will stop you wanting to be respected so badly, its your desperation and underlying insecurity from your past experiences of feeling inadequate that have compounded into an emotional undertone. Instead respect yourself so deeply that you can respect all other people, even women who have done hoe shit in the past. Sex, is not even all that, as a man... Honestly, guys who embody divine masculinity fuck women because the women want to fuck them, even their wives... And then the pleasure the man gets from fucking his wife is not in his orgasm, but the self-control and discipline he feels by being able to contain his ejaculation and witness his woman's pleasure.

If your not willing to do the work on yourself, dont complain. And if you have done the work on yourself you wouldnt be complaining. Not everyones path is the same, but walk yours fully. No one is a victim.

LittleTomatillo1111 · 2025-07-12T20:39:32+00:00

I can understand that they want to feel like the most special for their girl, but why does it only work one way? Is that girl the only person they'd hook up with? I doubt it. Girls want to feel like they're the most special also.

mikush85 · 2025-07-14T16:32:53+00:00

This doesn't hold up in observable measurable objective reality. None of it. It's just a bunch of nonsense.

Mindless_Junket_4292 · 2025-07-14T23:08:01+00:00

Where is all of this retroactive jealous coming from, anyways? Is this a talking point for a popular manosphere guy?

Everything you guys write all looks the same, so it's not like you all uniquely developed retroactive jealousy for your short term relationships.

ConTrikster · 2025-07-15T12:44:42+00:00

I think it’s more that men ultimately want to feel desired from women. There are so many benefits or things you can do with a woman (or things she would do to you) that comes with her having high desire

throwaway73737828 · 2025-07-11T06:10:14+00:00

The average men have to accept that they will get “if you are a good boy I will give you sex” treatment because in the first hand he is not attractive on the other hand he is being caring/nice towards her which will not result for the best result. Average men can only change this by not being nice and they have to put in the work to be attractive.

Men dont give af if you have slept with 1000 men or 1 men in the past if you are not getting married and just have a fwb or casual relationship. Problem starts when you take her seriously, and marry her. If she had her baddie years she will be a terrible mother and on some part of relationship divorce gonna happen. Men want virgins or women with low body count because of this. When a women sleeps with a lot of men she will miss some parts of them. She thinks, I missed going in jets with john, I missed sams 🍆, I missed jasons humor, I missed austins social life, I missed ralphs home etc. Thats why you stop marrying in this century all together.

Us redpill guys know marriage is done for. Only the bluepill or hopeful guys are looking for marriage, which will hit them in their relationship. Because women will always keep their body count a secret for the men she gonna marry. Thats why the best case scenario for guys is either fwb, hookups or STR. Marriage and LTR never worth it anymore.

GrouchNslouch777 · 2025-07-10T19:34:50+00:00

Nah.

The issue here is that in the past the women men had to choose from likely was attracted to him legitimately for many cultural reasons i.e. lower promiscuity, less degeneracy promoted/accessible, less access to men beyond their league.

The tier of woman that feels that way toward the average guy has noticeably dropped. So average men have to get that same dynamic from a markedly below average woman.

While women can punch up they can only punch up so far.

In short: hoeflation.

m0re-power · 2025-07-11T03:17:07+00:00

Men are angry about the current dating dynamic because they're mentally impaired. They're stupid as fuck, and because men are stupid as fuck, THEY'RE STILL ATTATCHED TO WOMEN.

if they were smart, they wouldnt care. The solution to women is APATHY. Just stop caring about them and treat them like sex objects. They're for fun and nothing else.

the_1st_inductionist · 2025-07-10T19:25:49+00:00

"Feel cucked" is the wrong framing, men want to be desired by their woman more than any other man. It's that simple.

Ok. Many women want this to. It’s a human thing.

But that’s not why reasonable men are angry. Sure, there are more men and women who are promiscuous than they should be, but it’s not really anything to get angry about. Maybe for a short while.

There are so many stories of married men finding out that their wife was a party girl in her younger years, doing all kinds of crazy stuff that she would never do with him.

So many stories on the internet you mean? How often do you think this happens? Particularly to reasonable men?

attendquoi · 2025-07-10T19:42:53+00:00

If you want to be the hookup guy, DON'T ASK FOR A RELATIONSHIP.

-Kalos · 2025-07-11T01:06:56+00:00

I don't think "feel cucked" is the correct description. More like she had feral desire for someone else that she didn't have for me. We all want to feel desired by our partner ladies. But yeah, it comes from an insecure place. I don't mind a woman with history as I have a bunch myself, but if I don't feel desired then what's the point?

KayRay1994 · 2025-07-11T08:29:24+00:00

Tbh if a guy feels like this, and I say this genuinely - grow up

-SidSilver- · 2025-07-11T09:00:25+00:00

This jumps to so many conclusions that reduces women to a monolith.

Men just know if the guy was open to LTR then the girl would have absolutely chosen the other guy not him.

You're assuming this is just the default scenario. You really think women don't sometimes just want the hookups? Or that they might not have found the right dude yet (that dude being you?) My ex went through a hookup phase, and when we eventually got together she admitted it's because she liked me and I'd been in a relationship at the time, so she just made a bunch of mistakes. Some of those guys definitely wanted a relationship with her, too, and it never happened.

Lots of people try to live in the moment, but here you're assuming that these women are ignoring a set-in-stone future for short-term gratification, while you're telling them that you're more interested in their past than their present, where hypothetically they've chosen you.

Maybe this is why you are struggling.

ASnowfallOfCherry · 2025-07-10T20:34:21+00:00

Feel cucked" is the wrong framing, men want to be desired by their woman more than any other man. It's that simple.

grow the f - up. This IS pure insecurity and infantile behavior.

firstly, it ignores that desire isn’t static. You think when I met my husband, he was the most desired man I’d ever had? No. And I wasn’t the woman he desired above all else either. But over time he became the most desired man to me. Hell I walked away from a bona fide Chad for him. We aren’t all most beautiful woman or man in the world. That’s life. And the most beautiful men and women get cheated on all the time.

secondly, desire changes. My first husband was pretty hot. 6/2 lean, blue eyed. Got that golden tan. But when our marriage was blowing up, I remember looking at him and thinking he was incredibly ugly. I was repulsed.

I can totally understand the frustration guys feel about this, the whole "so you'll give sex to the random hook up at a party you barely know or don't really care about but you care about me so you don't want to have sex yet? Make it make sense ffs..."

make it make sense? From a woman’s view. It’s called growing up and being a lot more careful of my sexual health. Stupid hook ups is a great way for diseases and babies.

And it sounds like the only way you are willing to accept that I care about you is whether I’m fucking you. If my only value is my vagina, bye. Because if you get bitchy because I’m exhausted after having a baby or I had a bad day at work because I’m not sucking your dick like I used to act at 20 with no responsibilities, you are a terrible long term match. Sex ebbs and flows.

There are so many stories of married men finding out that their wife was a party girl in her younger years, doing all kinds of crazy stuff that she would never do with him. This isn't the man feeling cucked, it's him feeling undesired.

I bet he still drinks and drives right? I bet he never hung up his motorcycle keys. I bet he still drinks til dawn like he did at 22 and shows up at work two hours later. Oh wait, he’s had to slow down? He isn’t out there getting trashed every Saturday night? I don’t do with my husband some of the crazy things I used to because, like getting shit faced, those things are actually toxic to a LTR and to me. He knows why.

And it's true lol, she desired to do all that stuff with other men, she doesn't desire to do it with him.

no it isn’t true. She just doesn’t desire to do it at all anymore. Again, I don’t get shitfaced or smoke MJ anymore either.

Again, the reasons behind all these behaviors can get complex, but the point stands that men (who are not promiscuous themselves)

but they wanted to be, so they can get off their high horse.

are justified in being cautious about women who were promiscuous.

not for the reasons you’ve discussed. All you’ve talked about is insecurity.

Other than some chronically online red piller, most men aren't looking for virgins, they are looking for a woman who only has eyes for him.

tough shit. That’s not reality. You think my husband never looks at a 23 year old red head in a bikini? You think he went blind the day he married me? You think he doesn’t reminisce about his stripper girlfriend? Do you think I care? He’s in my bed and he does me well.

Not just eyes for him, eyes filled with immense desire and appreciation and respect that no other man can match, which is why they're together in the first place.

And you think that is determined by how fast she fucks him? LMAO. If you are trying to build a LTR based on initial attraction, you have a house on a foundation of SAND. You think you are never going to age? You think you won’t go bald or have a beer belly or won’t go grey? You won’t be the hottest thing she sees. That devotion you want? That takes a long time to build and it isn’t built on your hairline. It’s how you treat each other, how you mesh. It’s the soup you give him when he’s sick, the note you wrote that you are thinking of her. It’s the stupid little clay heart I painted for my husband that he treasures. That is how you get long term devotion.

Now, in defense of those former hoes who truly love her husband, I can see why it's frustrating for her that men bring up her past ….

for me, it’s simple. It’s an instantaneous deal breaker. One word about my past, byeeee! Especially if it is just sour grapes that he didn’t get to fuck around but wanted to.

because in a way hooking up with random guys is superficial and meaningless, the love with her man that she experiences is profound and beautiful.

pass that on to men. Because they sure don’t care about any of that.

And this quickly reveals the problem: that treating sex like a handshake, a simply fun activity that feels good, who cares if it's with a stranger you barely know, ends up calling into question your ability to profoundly connect with someone through sex, with love.

seems most men don’t feel that way. So why is it that women need to? Why are you demanding something from women you don’t care about. Unless you will turn down casual? If so, go do your thing.

I much rather marry a woman who's had sex 500 times with 1 man that she genuinely loved than marry a woman who's had sex 1 time with 500 men each. And it's a bit sad that this is no longer obviously true to some people.

is this what you tell your men buddies. That they are wrong for casual sex? Because if not, you are a hypocrite.

torytho · 2025-07-10T20:58:09+00:00

What you’re describing is an insecure man. Your feelings are valid, but it can only be worked through internally bc that’s where the issue is. Women can’t fix your insecurities. Only you can do that.

Knight-Bishop · 2025-07-10T21:07:34+00:00

I have a 130+ body count, OP— the vast majority of them casual hookups.

You are spot on— these other dudes don’t know what they are talking about.

If you didn’t sleep with a woman the 1st date/1st hangout/same night one night stand, she is much more likely to NOT have genuine desire/legit sexual attraction towards you.

This is actually one of Rollo’s Iron Rules in his Rational Male book. But he states it differently & I learned this on my own through my own experiences.

Routine-Present-3676 · 2025-07-10T22:58:55+00:00

Lol if bro is whining about this insecure shit to his girl he's probably going to get to find out what it feels like to be actually cucked if she doesn't go ahead and outright dump him instead. This is wildly unattractive.

Title	Men are angry about the current dating dynamics because they don't want to feel cucked.
Author	BrightAutumn12
Upvotes	141
Comments	913
Date	July 10, 2025 6:32 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1lwkcxb/men_are_angry_about_the_current_dating_dynamics/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-are-angry-about-the-current-dating-dynamics.1556818 https://theredarchive.com/post/1556818

hypothetical scenario

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