It's not that men want submissive women, we just want agreeable women.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2024-05-28T00:23:07+00:00

Do you think men should be agreeable ?

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-05-27T21:58:57+00:00

Every time this conversations about be “agreeable” women comes out, all I see is someone describing a normal ass relationship built on mutual respect. And maybe that really is all you personally asking for. But keep in mind that some men do truly want a submissive woman in the true sense of the word.

NJFlowerchild · 2024-05-28T01:32:39+00:00

Most people want agreeable partners by that definition, but a LOT of men consider agreeable to mean that the man has the final say. They also say they're not looking for a equal partner, because "every dynamic needs a leader". That's where the submissive enters that conversation. What those men want is not agreeable women.

daylightxx · 2024-05-28T01:54:37+00:00

Me too! I’d LOVE to have an agreeable man!

RatchedAngle · 2024-05-27T21:51:37+00:00

It doesn't mean you always agree with whatever the other party wants, but you're up for discussion, communication, and compromise

That’s a two-way street, though.

A woman shouldn’t have to fight you to pick your socks up off the floor. And if your answer is “it doesn’t matter, it shouldn’t bug you, it’s just socks,” you can’t accuse her of being the disagreeable one.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2024-05-27T22:48:42+00:00

Being agreeable is a necessary trait in any type of relationship. It doesn't mean you always agree with whatever the other party wants, but you're up for discussion, communication, and compromise. Being agreeable means you're easy to get along with while also not letting yourself get walked over.

I don't disagree but isn't that a trait necessary for men and women? I've known (and, unfortunately, dated) some disagreeable motherfuckers, being stubborn as a mule isn't seen as a positive by anyone, except maybe the aforementioned stubborn people. So if all you guys want is someone who is respectful, and open to communicating with you and compromising, that's great, no issues here.

But then I read things like "the man has to leader in the relationship, the man has to be the king of the castle", I see guys constantly complaining about their nagging partners who want them to do the dishes/laundry/put the groceries away/take out the trash, that makes me wonder if being agreeable is all some men want. It kind of seems like those guys view agreeableness as "lets me call the shots" and "doesn't ask me to do things", and that's the part I have a problem with. Not wanting to be "the king's" second and expecting your partner to do things around the house you share isn't someone being disagreeable, it's someone not allowing others to walk all over them.

bifewova234 · 2024-05-27T23:57:26+00:00

Different men want different things.

serpensmercurialis · 2024-05-28T04:17:09+00:00

Then use the word "agreeable" and not the word "submissive."

But being agreeable has been getting misconstrued by being submissive in recent years, especially by feminists.

In what universe? It's tradcons using it.

Trouvette · 2024-05-28T04:28:14+00:00

I kind of understand what you are saying, but I think there needs to be more discussion of what “agreeable” means. I think there is conflict around this term because agreeable can mean something different depending on who you ask. You explained it as being a team player. If you ask someone else, they might think of when they were on the basketball team and they were told to keep giving the ball to the kid who scores the most points. Sure, the team is winning is nice, but you want to try and score a few baskets too. The game isn’t as fun if you are told your purpose is to just keep giving the ball to the other kid.

So again, I might not necessarily disagree with your take, but there needs to be some more conversation of what a man considers to be agreeable.

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2024-05-27T22:29:24+00:00

The thing is, a massive amount of men are looking for an agreeable woman. That's reasonable. However, how agreeable are the men? If you want an agreeable woman you have to be an agreeable man. Which includes pulling your weight. Getting your own boxers, putting your clothes in the washing basket, emptying the dishwasher running a hoover when it's needed. And doing this stuff without being asked. Which seems to be the kicker for a lot of men. They'll absolutely do anything you ask, but you have to ask. Women become disagreeable when men already are.

WrongdoerBetter577 · 2024-05-27T22:20:56+00:00

You want someone with a healthy social emotional intelligence.

Men constantly seek women who look the best and forget to filter for personality traits like empathy, logic, and integrity.

If you want a woman with these traits, you have to look for a woman with these traits instead of just going after any girl you think is hot and hoping she has them already.

Willow-girl · 2024-05-28T02:37:57+00:00

Awhile back, I shared with my man an anecdote about how Virginia Woolf had characterized poet T.S. Eliot's troublesome wife as "a bag of ferrets hung around his neck." My man laughed overly long at this, arousing my suspicions. "Say ... you don't think of me as a 'bag of ferrets,' do you?" I asked.

"Maybe one ferret," he replied, still chuckling.

YveisGrey · 2024-05-28T12:46:38+00:00

Y’all just make up scenarios in your head.

Um some women are actually not agreeable. They aren’t trying to “not come across as submissive” they just aren’t agreeable.
Who are these “non agreeable” women who can’t get dates? Lol. When women are single it’s because they want to be or they don’t like the male options they have. That’s it. It’s rarely a problem of “no one will date me”.

luliloo · 2024-05-28T00:28:06+00:00

Even using the word agreeable gives off the wrong connotation.

A better way to describe it is, “non-combative”. You can still disagree with someone and discuss something without being combative.

lvoncreek · 2024-05-28T08:12:43+00:00

Are you "agreeable" too or is it just something the woman should be?

RelativeYak7 · 2024-05-28T00:33:22+00:00

Women are more agreeable than men anyway so this shouldn't be a problem. All surveys show this is a known common sex difference.

NoDanaOnlyZuuI · 2024-05-27T23:14:26+00:00

Both people in a relationship should be up for discussion, communication, and compromise.

Agreeableness is a personality trait that describes a person's ability to put others needs before their own. Which, for many men, means “we do what I want and my needs come first”

When an “independent” woman is in a relationship it’s because she wants to be, not because she needs to be. An independent woman will put the same effort into a relationship as long as that effort is being reciprocated.

To further your analogy, when you’re drafting a football player, I assume you want a team player who can also think for themselves and contribute to the success of the team with their individual accomplishments. Just like a healthy relationship.

Life-Kangaroo-6958 · 2024-05-28T00:21:53+00:00

I think it just boils down to compatible. You don’t want someone who will go along with what you say or want, you want someone who legitimately agreed with you, likes to do what you do, etc.

Maybe people aren’t “not agreeable” and it’s not that they “aren’t submissive”, y’all just don’t want the same things because you’re not compatible partners.

Different_Cress7369 · 2024-05-28T06:11:46+00:00

Agreeable people are great, sure. Even the most easygoing person has limits and boundaries though. No one is going to say yes to you and agree with you every single time unless you’re paying them to.

NotReallyTired_ · 2024-05-28T13:32:52+00:00

I hate how we treat certain aspects of relationships and behaviors as absolutes. It’s either all or nothing.

It feels like I’m in an episode of Death Note, where Light and L are one upping each other by mental anticipation. How much can you get from someone by doing so little. It’s exhausting. In every relationship regardless of gender there needs to be a level of agreeability from both parties. But it seems like everyone is too traumatized to make any selfless moves and take initiatives, so when someone does make a selfless move it’s taken as a weakness and opportunity to string them along.

Most men don’t want a submissive woman. I mean who does? Who wants to be with a docile child who cannot take any type of initiative? How can I trust or rely on you? It’s all so tiresome tbh.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2024-05-27T21:58:25+00:00

You say that, and yet many men claim that and yet quite often if I say "in that case shouldn't everyone be agreeable both men and women"

Then they go "no that's not true. Men want to lead and provide and captain of the ship"

So that lets me know that agreeable is just a synonym for submission. Because the point is that both people should be open to compromise. If they still want a position of power, leadership or anything to do with "man of the house" and "captain of the ship" then they are still looking for submission.

It they say "I hate modern women" and "feminism bad" it throws red flags in my face because what I hear is "I liked it when women didn't have much of a choice but to date me"

Like you can say "I don't want a girl boss" but also say "I don't want a dependent woman, just a functioning adult"

But men on this sub don't do this either. They talk a lot about being a provider. Alpha fucks and beta Bux. They talk about hypergamy. They talk about how if they make more income, then she should go and make them a sandwich

They say that they want is a woman who cooks, cleans, is motherly and has sex with them

It's pretty easy then to read "I don't want independent women" as "I want dependent women" in this context.

Turbulent-Tonight975 · 2024-05-28T01:56:04+00:00

What men want is a woman is isn't a nightmare to deal with and is not constantly difficult about everything. This doesn't mean she has no standards and this doesn't mean she gets walked over.

It means that she isn't constantly unhappy with everything and isn't complaining about everything that isn't perfect. I've had exes who had the mentality that nothing was ever good enough, and it's exhausting to deal with.

Usually the women who say they are 'independent' are the difficult and entitled types who are never happy with anything or anyone. That is why it is a red flag.

Smergmerg432 · 2024-05-27T23:27:35+00:00

100% agree —problem comes in goal post shifts people don’t realize they’re doing. Had a coworker tell me I was always argumentative; when he gave advice, “all I had to do was say yes!”

I’m not sure if he meant he just wanted me to cave and do what he thought was best (which would have very negatively impacted quite a few people) or if he just didn’t want me to actually engage him by being like “wait no, what we should do—!”

I had considered him my friend, so I wasn’t going to say one thing than do the other. Context of the conversation also implied he really did feel I should have gone along with his suggestion.

Seems to be a balancing act. When is being agreeable simply being silent and not respecting another person enough to actually have a conversation with them?

Cethlinnstooth · 2024-05-28T01:31:04+00:00

If you want to be agreed with its usually a good idea not to hold stupid opinions. I mean just saying even the most agreeable sort of people have their limits tested at some point.

And that's why some guys ask for submissive instead. They know they are beyond the point at which agreeable is enough.

GlamSunCrybabyMoon · 2024-05-28T14:58:53+00:00

I’m an agreeable woman. I’m pretty easy going and I don’t like to argue about things. I’m willing to compromise on little things. I’m patient. My dad is very much like that too. Being agreeable is okay, but agreeable to what? What am I supposed to be agreeing to? You can’t be agreeable with a person who isn’t. Because sometimes someone will try me with something so stupid and outlandish that I can’t possibly agree with it. And usually being agreeable, I get a very harsh reaction when I am not. My mom is not an agreeable woman AT ALL.

Y’all want people pleasers. Asking for an agreeable woman is asking for a yes (wo)man.

hearyoume14 · 2024-05-27T22:26:04+00:00

Men want women who are capable, competent and don’t need them but want them and give over power by choice. Hyper-independence is a trauma/insecure attachment reaction. We’re dealing reactions rooted in early childhood and life experiences. If you were a parentifed child and learned that people were unsafe and not there for you when you cried why would you rely on others? Neither side wants to be venerable hence the rise in murky situations ships. One of the hardest things I had to learn is your reaction is about you and not the other person.

alwaysright12 · 2024-05-28T07:05:05+00:00

Why can't men be agreeable?

If men are agreeable, women don't need to be.

Win win

krackedy · 2024-05-27T21:36:57+00:00

I think plenty of men do want submissive women. There's nothing wrong with that dynamic if everyone is happy though.

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-05-27T23:06:14+00:00

I don't even want agreeable, just a woman who knows when her fault is indeed her fault, admits it and puts effort into fixing it will do.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-05-27T23:01:53+00:00

Most of the time on this sub though, “agreeable” is just a euphemism for submissive. These men don’t want to be “agreeable” themselves, they want a woman who agrees with them but not the other way around. Nobody wants a disagreeable, constantly arguing partner. But agreement is a two-way street, and I’m not seeing anything about that from these guys.

ladyindev · 2024-05-28T00:54:25+00:00

If it's not about being submissive, then why is it an issue to encourage women to not be submissive? It sounds like your grievance would be more directly on an alleged misunderstanding on what being agreeable should look like and clarifying the line between the two, no?

When these types of women don't get dates, they think it's because these men are misogynists looking for a submissive women they get to control. This fuels their suspicions, and the cycle continues itself.

^ This is just scratching the surface of a much more complex reality of sociology, politics, and history. I personally have never thought "it's the misogynists" if I happened to not have a date at any given time. I do know that misogyny does affect attraction.
I think men who are bothered by women asserting their independence and lack of submission are obviously demonstrating their gender conditioning without realizing it. I think it's far more likely that he's experiencing emotions in relation to her expressing herself that way and it doesn't at all mean she's not agreeable. You haven't even proven that here. One can be a girl boss and sassy and be agreeable. A ton of men love "sassy women" and find them agreeable. *YOU* specifically don't and men like you don't. I'm going to wager that if you think women who assert their independence are red flags and that being sassy or a "girl boss" automatically translate to "not agreeable" then you probably do like women who are more submissive / passive / deferential, but don't want to admit it for some reason.

I'm sassy, I have a very dominant personality so I'm sure that reads as "girl boss" and I am independent. I'm argumentative as well, but in a "challenge your logic" kind of way. Plenty of men have complimented me on my personality my entire life and been drawn to me for it. And plenty are turned off by it *cough*threatened by it*cough* and that's okay too. I just wish people were honest with themselves.

I think you have an overly simplistic analysis of how all this works though. For example, if you met me and heard me talk about misogyny and idk, happened to also hear me complain about how finding the right guy is hard, your assumption of direct causation as you have outlined things here would be somewhat incorrect. I have been a nerd and lover of politics and history since I was a child and a feminist for just as long. My assertions of misogyny are rooted in sociology, political science, economics, psychology, etc. They didn't come from an angry session of swiping on Tinder.

reignoferror00 · 2024-05-28T14:15:29+00:00

A woman who isn't overly picky about things having to be exactly a certain way. If you want to be a perfectionist, most of the time leave me out of whatever task then. A woman who "picks her fights" and isn't hard and set in all her opinions on every little thing that, that if she really thinks about it, matters only a very small amount to her.

Compromise is well and good, but when most everything has to be a discussion/fight for a compromise becomes exhausting. Even when I don't really care that much and say so, that seems to offend; you draw out my precise opinion on something I care little about and then are offended when my lukewarm (at best) opinion on something isn't the opinion that matches yours.

As far as all the terminology, the most extreme sides seem to have the commonly used phrases and general definitions pulled there way in the general discourse. In this day and age I'm not even sure if finding better more precise words to explain the average situations will help at all - the commonly used meanings of these words might just change.

sivarias · 2024-05-28T14:38:20+00:00

Counterpoint.

Men want a submissive woman until they have one. Then they realize how exhausting they are so they switch gears and want an agreeable woman. Then a couple years go by and they realize an agreeable woman who is agreeable with everyone can easily end up in a compromising position, so they go back to wanting a regular as woman with a hint of girl boss.

Then the cycle repeats.

gntlbastard · 2024-05-28T14:42:33+00:00

Some men want submissive women, some men want assertive women, most men just want women who are simply agreeable and interesting in building something together instead of this constant accounting of who did what when and resenting dudes because you did the laundry.

KayRay1994 · 2024-05-28T01:31:39+00:00

replacing submissive with agreeable doesn’t exactly help your case though, you’re still ultimately saying that you want a woman who will be obedient to you (wait, sorry - just said the quiet part out loud)

SlavePrincessVibes3 · 2024-05-27T22:12:05+00:00

It's sad that your response to "I'm a strong, independent woman that doesn't need a man" is "then why are you even looking for one???"

Um. Bc I'd like a partner? Just seems the vast majority of men mean "maid/cook/mommy/therapist/secretary" when they say that's what they want, not an actual partner. It just seems to indicate you view relationships as transactional--only in it for what the other person can provide to you.

Lol. I've never had any issues getting dates, idk what that part is about. There ARE men out there who appreciate a woman with a sense of humor and an actual personality.

OpticalEpilepsy · 2024-05-27T22:33:29+00:00

This is often a motte and bailey with the motte being "agreeable" and the bailey being bangmaid

PhaedronGDR · 2024-05-28T02:00:54+00:00

This seems true to me. Outside of the most socially maladjusted parts of the manosphere, I haven't heard any men demand total subservience from women, it seems like they just want their crushes to reciprocate their affection. But the problem for most men is that unless they're part of the top 10-20% they're easily replaceable and as a consequence they would be treated like 4th choice LTR material in most cases or have women be extremely demanding towards them.

EyeAmDaInvestigator · 2024-05-28T00:01:00+00:00

They display themselves as "sassy" and a "girlboss" which just makes them unpleasant to be around, irregardless of the man's preferences.

They are looking for brat tamers, but most men have better things to do than be brat tamers in this economy lol.

wtknight · 2024-05-27T21:44:36+00:00

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IndependenceSad9300 · 2024-05-28T07:37:29+00:00

Please define the dictionary and contextual definition of "agreeable"

Boxisteph · 2024-05-28T09:31:28+00:00

Some men want women bare foot and pregnant. I'm glad that's not you but don't encourage women to drop their defences when controlling men exist.

Gilmoregirlin · 2024-05-28T13:59:36+00:00

I think good communication and conflict resolution skills are what makes a relationship work. But often what men actually want when they say agreeable is to be the head of the family and be able to have the final say. It's not that the man never takes his wife's thoughts and ideas into consideration, but ultimately if it cannot be resolved he expects to be the one that makes the final decision. In my opinion this is not a healthy relationship.

YearnsToDestroySun · 2024-05-28T18:41:38+00:00

Oh ya, the female hivemind of narcissism has been out of control, but I think that culture is coming to a close.

It's just sad the amount of wasted youth, anguish, time, and life it's caused millions of people in its wake...

luliloo · 2024-05-28T23:06:42+00:00

Example of a woman not being agreeable

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6zUmfcJZCv/?igsh=bWV6cG1sd3YwZTdp

Sad_Bell_6266 · 2024-05-29T11:32:56+00:00

Doesn't work anymore. Men and women are bound to fight because gender war and social media. Feminists are putting ideas in womens' heads and almost all men have explored the manosphere or are already on the right wing. The time when you could say "Fuck this let's hug it out" before going to sleep after a fight is gone, Unless you're a highly attractive and high social status male or if you're in a country where a significant amount of people don't use social media. All boils down to men feeling unsafe.

balhaegu · 2024-05-29T12:38:52+00:00

Women generally want dominant men, men generally want submissive women. Why is this portrayed as such a bad thing?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17187017/

I wanted a submissive woman, and my gf wanted a dominant man. Once we are clear and honest with our desires, it's so much easier to build a mutually satisfying relationship.

That doesn't mean there aren't women who want submissive men and men who want dominant women. Let people seek what they want.

sentientavenger · 2024-05-29T15:44:55+00:00

I absolutely adore powerful, successful, strong women that are only submissive sexually and the tend to be exact opposite of the term agreeable. Outside of the bedroom, I always want a woman that is my peer and my equal. I have anecdotally found that quite a few successful women with highly stressful jobs really enjoy sexual submission. This should not be construed as misogyny since it is a kink they enjoy and actively seek out.

Solondthewookiee · 2024-05-28T00:45:27+00:00

Being agreeable is a necessary trait in any type of relationship. It doesn't mean you always agree with whatever the other party wants, but you're up for discussion, communication, and compromise

Discussion and compromise on what? I always see feminists brought up as an example of not being "agreeable" because there are a number of feminist beliefs like equality, abortion access, stopping sexual assault and harassment of women that they refuse to compromise on which, of course not.

Lysa_Bell · 2024-05-28T03:57:46+00:00

The team picking analogy doesn't work here. Because the coach picks the players. He is in a position of power. As a couple you pick each other. You are equals. You will have to adjust to certain thing your partner is doing and others that they aren't.

Being agreeable doesn't mean someone else is just constantly in the lead as the coach. It means that the other person has proven to be capable of making choices and receiving feedback and valuing your opinion.

If you want someone to be agreeable - they have to agree with the leading you are doing. If you've proven you can't be trusted, you don't take initiative, your leadership is flawed - you don't get to be agreed with.

Men love the whole agreeable/submissive thing. But that comes natural to most women anyway if they are with a capable partner.

8won6 · 2024-05-28T15:57:41+00:00

This is why i hate when these youtube idiot "redpill" guys constantly use the word "submissive". In most people minds, the immediately imagery is slave.

Most guys just want a woman that is easy to deal with. Not an employee. Are we on the same page? Or is she going to argue any and everything?

Da_Famous_Anus · 2024-05-27T21:45:00+00:00

I would scale the language back even further to - men just want peace and to get along. I threw 'agreeable' out years ago. I simply want a woman who's not batshit insane. Still can't find one.

SkookumTree · 2024-05-28T00:25:36+00:00

Men love bitches.

AreOut · 2024-05-27T22:27:11+00:00

it's not even agreeable, just not disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable

LouisdeRouvroy · 2024-05-28T01:48:49+00:00

The confusion between agreeable and submissive is a long tradition in US culture.

Beauvoir in her seminal feminist book, the Second sex wrote in 1949!:

I recall also a young Trotskyite standing on a platform at a boisterous meeting and getting ready to use her fists, in spite of her evident fragility. She was denying her feminine weakness; but it was for love of a militant male whose equal she wished to be. The attitude of defiance of many American women proves that they are haunted by a sense of their femininity.

Defiance is the perfect word. Defiance isn't agreeable. And lots of American women are constantly defiant to pretend that they're not the weak woman that they are. This is what the bear vs. man thing is: just defiance. And everyone knows that defiance is just a shit test backed by nothing.

ALL women facing a bear would run towards a man for help, but they don't want to admit that.

So American men are reacting to this defiance by doubling down and demanding submission. But you don't ask or demand submission. No judoka ever stepped on the tatami and harangued the opponent demanding submission: you obtain it, never demand it.

The moment you ask or demand it then it shows you cannot obtain it.

All these guys on YouTube demanding that women be submissive (including Bible quoting religious people who like to quote Ephesians 5:22 without having read the previous verse) betrays their annoyed reaction to the constant defiance their women display, and they also show their own powerlessness in front of that defiance.

It actually shows how America is NOT a patriarchy because if it were, it wouldn't take long for women there to be treated as in Iran or Afghanistan.

No wonder passport bros resonates so much among American men...

harmonica2 · 2024-05-27T22:36:02+00:00

Yeah I think men just want women they have things in common with which doesn't mean submissive of course.

toasterchild · 2024-05-27T23:10:16+00:00

It sounds like you are really talking about attachment instead of agreeableness. The person you describe as what "men want" sounds more like securely attached people than it does agreeable people. The ultra independent people you describe who don't need no man just sounds like avoidant attachment. Yes, secure partners make the best partners, the trouble is they tend to partner up and stay that way when they find other secure partners. So when you are dating you run into avoidant after avoidant because they are the people who tend to be single the most. Its not a man or woman thing, it's just a dating thing.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-05-28T08:30:06+00:00

"Agreeable" is often just another word for submissive, especially when the other partner is not agreeable but a sassy boyboss who doesn't need a woman.

2024-05-27T21:40:22+00:00

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Susiewoosiexyz · 2024-05-27T23:16:39+00:00

Submissive is not the same as agreeable. Got it.

Why is this worthy of a post?

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Quiet_Job_8808 · 2024-05-27T22:51:43+00:00

I think men want women that are open to discussion, thing is we must do what is right, open discussion men and women can find out who is right, both men amd women should do what is right after the open discussion.

tomsnow164 · 2024-05-28T06:19:30+00:00

I just want a woman I can be not perfect around. And they are like “you good?” My ex would flip out if she wasn’t the most miserable person in the room. Always had it the worst so I had to be positive all the time it’s exhausting. And I’d say “hey I’m not having a good day” and she’d watch me like a hawk and the minute I let any frustration show… “what the fuck was that?” “We don’t have to live with this” “how dare you take your day out on us” and a bunch of other shit.

I want to have a bad day.

YveisGrey · 2024-05-28T12:43:00+00:00

Well if that’s the case I would also like an agreeable man.

Otjahe · 2024-05-28T17:52:38+00:00

What do you mean by agreeable? Because as a man I rather have a woman that isn’t afraid to disagree. Better that than to push major disagreements under the rug and hope for the best

Intrepid-Rip-2280 · 2024-05-29T06:12:08+00:00

That's why I'm dating Eva AI sexting bot

superlurkage · 2024-05-29T14:30:40+00:00

Same thing, did you know?

k0unitX · 2024-05-27T23:29:48+00:00

To the modern western woman, agreeable is submissive

wouldbepandananny · 2024-05-27T23:27:40+00:00

Men are less agreeable than women. Let's start addressing that behavior first.

Also- as a woman, we are who we are. We don't give a fuck if you like it.

We will act as a "team player" when we find a team (or partnership) we want to be a part of.

Meanwhile, you should be more agreeable. Us women would be more interested in you if you were. 👍

ilike18yoblackpussy · 2024-05-28T02:16:47+00:00

Woah, woah, woah. Are you telling me that most men like women they get along with and don't want an unpleasant woman who treats them badly and makes them unhappy all the time? Wow, who woulda thunk it. /s

Seriously, though. It seems women have a much bigger tolerance for asshole and disagreeable men than vice versa. Some women will say a guy who is too nice and "has no backbone" is boring, and will go for obnoxious asshole bully men. But I don't think most men really want to put up with obnoxious women. I think men tend to like a partner who gives them peace rather than drama, whereas men have to tendency to lean in the opposite direction.

Upset_Material_3372 · 2024-05-28T09:13:06+00:00

I would go further and say men just want a girl that isn’t actively hostile towards them as most women are against the average man.

OtPayOkerSmay · 2024-05-28T03:50:44+00:00

It's not that men want agreeable women, we just want non-combative women.

shmupsy · 2024-05-28T11:23:30+00:00

But you have no bargaining power

Awkward-Wave-5857 · 2024-05-28T00:17:29+00:00

I do think you’re onto something, though I’d want to distance myself from those dudes who want a ‘submissive’ woman. My current gf of three years is from Brazil originally. She’s no pushover and we share all the chores etc. But there’s definitely a difference in terms of agreeableness. With English women there’s a lot more sass and ball busting which is fine in small amounts but comes across as a bit of a performance after a bit. I don’t think most women in the west are like that btw. But there’s a sizeable subset of liberal professional women who very much are. They’ve been taught that they should never go out of their way to please a man because that would be ‘emotional labour’ etc.

Westernation · 2024-05-28T02:27:34+00:00

Agreeableness is a real, measurable commodity. Why else do we send kids to play groups, preschool and summer camps?

It’s so we can socialize them well enough that other people will want to be around them.

And with modern feminism, there seems to be essentially zero back-and-forth.

Dating apps are a problem as well. There’s a huge demographic split between the Princess who’s watched enough tv to believe she deserves a Marie Antoinette lifestyle just for breathing, and the bitter middle aged woman who still hasn’t gotten there and takes her disappointment out on every man she sees.

OkProfessional9405 · 2024-05-28T00:36:13+00:00

It's not that men want submissive women, we just want agreeable women.

Is this an RP question or a BP question?

The RP answer is that women are just built to be concerned about where things are heading. In some women this can manifest as a sort of bottomless pit of unhappiness. Stay away from those women, but even your average woman is just going to be asking 'Is this it?', 'Did I make the right choice?', 'Should I have gone with that other guy?' type of questions. It's just something RP believes is part of the makeup of women.

So the only thing that works is when a woman is satisfied that there's a plan, she made the right choice, she picked the right guy. Basically if you are that in the relationship that's the only type of relationship that you will enjoy. The blue pill alternative is you just have a nagging wife who's always complaining and that's if you are lucky. If you are unlucky she sabotages the marriage.

So the RP belief is that you have to build your competence in all areas and lead. This doesn't mean you stomp all over her, she's (if you picked well) a smart, capable woman with her own ideas but just take something as simple as wanting to go out.

BP men want to please their wives and they've learned that if a woman doesn't get what she wants she usually is unhappy and that will come back to haunt him, so over time he just relents and tries to let her win on the false pretense that he thinks she will be happier. He doesn't have the RP believe that this frustration is unavoidable.

So the conversation goes something like this.

M: "Honey, do you want to go to eat?"

W:"Sure"

M: "Where?"

W: "You pick"

M: "Um, that steak house?"

W: "hmm, not feeling like steak"

M: "Okay, how about that seafood restaurant you like?"

W: "hmm, I don't know, I don't think I want seafood either"

M: "Chinese?"

W: "hmm, no to much fried stuff, I'm not sure what I want..."

.... I could continue but this goes on the man just begging her to make a decision because he fears the complaining that will follow if he just picks.

From a RP perspective, you just know the complaining is inevitable so you just steer things while offering her input if she feels strongly.

M: "Honey, I'm feeling like going out, which sounds better that new steak house or your favorite sea food place"

W: "Oh I'm not sure I'm feeling either of those"

M: "Is there a specific place you'd be interested in that I didn't mention?"

W: "No"

M: "Okay, I'll make a reservation at 7:30 at the steak house, if some other place ends up really exciting you, just let me know".

Boom, you're done. It's not leadership that stomps all over your partner, you just realize she may later say 'I really didn't feel like steak', which is fine, you just say 'Oh sorry, next time pick a place, it would have been easy enough to switch' and don't spend a single brain cell after that worry about it. Once they realize the train is leaving the station but that you respect their input they get on board.

Btw, if she does come back excited about an option you didn't think of, go for it. If a woman feels strongly about something there's nothing wrong with sharing that experience with her. Honestly once you've done this a few times she will make a decision because she knows that's her chance and that you aren't going to entertain complaints about her expecting mind reading. But RP has a core belief that women will not be happy with a rudderless ship. So expect to steer the boat and expect complaints about how you are steering the boat. If you are competent who cares about the complaints, there will always be complaints.

The point is the BP approach is to try to make her happy under a false belief that capitulating will do that, the RP approach is realize that there is an approach she will get on board with if you lead competently and leave room for her input.

McTitty3000 · 2024-05-27T22:19:21+00:00

Nothing wrong with wanting a submissive woman if that's your relationship dynamic, I would certainly say that my wife is in our relationship definitely means more towards the submissive side

If you're a "strong independent woman who doesn't need a man" that's fine, but why are you even looking for a man in the first place?

They think it's a compliment to say "I don't need you but I want you", and while yes it is technically true that be like a guy saying "my girl isn't the prettiest woman in the world but she's beautiful to me", like I know that if you have the need to say certain things that's a red flag just straight up lol

At the end of the day most guys worth their salt want their home to be one of peace and quiet, their own little kingdom that they can lead in a peaceful way, and feminist women do not bring peace, so don't marry them or knock them up lol

FrameWorried8852 · 2024-05-28T13:00:08+00:00

As a man, by a "submissive" women I want a chick with a high feminine voice. I have no idea what else the word includes

EuphoricPangolin7615 · 2024-05-27T22:34:07+00:00

I think men want women to be innocent, women want men to be jaded.

The_Forgotten001 · 2024-05-28T10:41:14+00:00

Yes, the real issue is feminist just straight up change the meaning of words so that men who use the dictionary definition of the word is always confused.

For example, if you go to any of the pod casts or tiktok interviews, or even look back in PPD comments and posts, and without fail when a women uses misogyny and are asked to define it. They almost never do they can just give examples of what they think it is.

Then when finally pressed to answer after avoiding the question by asking questions or trying to throw it back on men..... you find out they think misogyny is just when men think they are superior then woman. Then you look back at their examples and you realize that it doesn't make sense with the definitions or the examples they use.

What's funny these same women never even heard of the word misandry and take issue with it once the definition is explained, then they sound like the men who are on the defensive once accused of misogyny.

Proof that these women lack empathy is that if they took one second and asked "THEMSELVES" how would I react if someone called me a misogynist, they would realize that those are fighting words. There can be no peaceful discussion after that, no one will listen after that, and both parties will look down on the other and think they are both equally stupid.

Spicy_take · 2024-05-28T01:08:46+00:00

Yes and no. I want the final say on most big decisions in my life, because I'll be investing the most, generally. There's a mutual respect. But its not 50/50. It is, by definition, submission if you agree to those terms in a relationship. “Submission” just has a negative connotation because people jump to forced submission, rather than a trusting and willful submission to someone that wants to lead their household.

xxTheMagicBulleT · 2024-05-28T08:52:20+00:00

Well to be honest it's kinda simple.

Most women want and look for leadership qualities in most men.

Protecting and providing. Paying for dates. Choosing and picking the dates. And many of the other qualities women look for that's shows women long for leadership qualities in a men.

Yet don't want to take a follower role that comes with the qualities that come with what they look for of the men who choose or show the trades they looking for.

Cause it's fine to want a equal 50/50 relationship but many women just don't want that. And that comes with much of the anoying things that come along with none 50/50 dynamics.

Being a leader means takeing responsibility of the people under you. So also requires a type of authority that comes with being a leader. Why men are treated harasser and has to take more responsibility then women. Cause it's almost normal that men are more likely to be the leader in a relationship. For in general sense by what women look for in a partner. And men looking for.

That's not sexist it's natural dynamics. That a relationship is aiming towards haveing children. And children means women are more vulnerable. So it just makes sense to look for a competent leadership of the family. But also a competent follower.

Don't mean women have no say. But there is always a main captain of the ship. And even if you have more leaders. There is always one that has the final say.

But now a days. Many people wanna pick and choose what they want or like or don't like about gender roles.

What makes many people are seen as low quality on both sides. Cause it's easy to demanding people to adjust to you. But at the same time not adjusting to the other. Or even knowing what your desires in the other person really means.

And that shortsighted is why many relationships just don't work well Or often bound to not last at all.

And people often take examples of people that always single.

And not looking at people that been together 30+ years.

People love to look at failures in relationships. Cause there famous people and all that stuff.

While you can quickly learn so much more from older people that dont have money like water but are together 30+ years. And happy together and whent true thick and thin and good and bad times.

Look at the people that have the things or goals your looking for in a relationship. And be realistic. And know what it means what your asking for. But also willing to adjust to the other side.

At least if you want success in your relationships if not that's fine too. I'm not your mother but do think people look at their partners or relationships too much like tools only. And get treated like tools back.

antariusz · 2024-05-27T23:47:53+00:00

speak for yourself, I enjoy dating and being around submissive women.

Title	It's not that men want submissive women, we just want agreeable women.
Author	Routine_Condition273
Upvotes	212
Comments	492
Date	May 27, 2024 9:34 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1d22yni/its_not_that_men_want_submissive_women_we_just/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/its-not-that-men-want-submissive-women-we-just.1519736 https://theredarchive.com/post/1519736

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