Men on this sub are probably below average which is why they are struggling

Honestly_RedditSucks · 2024-02-02T14:44:57+00:00

See, this is the problem. People don't understand what "Average" is.

It's like a 35 year old dude in the mid-west saying "I just want an average girl that isn't overweight and doesn't have kids"

That person doesn't understand that that criteria just eliminated 90% of all women in his area.

Aafan_Barbarro · 2024-02-02T10:51:04+00:00

You can have some friends and still no single women in your life.

Frdxhds · 2024-02-02T11:23:39+00:00

I believe you have a mistaken thinking.

You provided for each of the categories the average, but the combination of being at least average in EACH of those categories is imo rarer than you think.

Like if 50% of people are above 5''11 and 50% have above 80k income, the percentage of men who have both is much lower.

ComfortableJeans · 2024-02-02T10:51:40+00:00

I hate how much of the standard men must live up to comes down to "has money."

Every bloke I know, coming from a working class background, is currently working themselves to death only to struggle to keep their heads above water. I know boys working 13 days every two weeks, up at 4AM, in work by 6AM, then getting home at 6PM. These fuckers are working HARD jobs. Giving it their all and STILL coming up short.

They don't have time or money for a social circle, or vacations, or the gym.

The only people I know, both boys and girls, with the spare money and time to do anything are still living with their parents. And I'm 29 now.

Those people who went off to buy a home will be struggling to pay it off until their fucking 60s. These are people who went to school and got official educations, not people working part time at McDonalds.

I have no idea where you all are from, but this feels so disconnected to my reality.

If having all that makes you avarage, then easily 95% of people I've met are below avarage.

All this shit felt like such an uphill battle that I ended up giving up on it all and dedicating my time to animal charities. I have nothing, I'm not going to have anything and I gave up wanting shit a long time ago.

... But weirdly enough, girls have always seemed to love my animal work.

I know it has to be different for some of you, but constantly hearing over and over how your value as a human comes down to how much money you have is so depressing.

mhaom · 2024-02-02T10:49:46+00:00

You’ve chosen to define average based on what you consider dateable rather than statistics.

Do you have any data to back your claim?

It's perfectly fine, if what you define is what you consider worthy of love. But if you are going to use the term average, you should at least back it up with some data. Even if every one of your bullet points are straight in the middle of a bell curve (unlikely), the intersection between them is likely to be far off average.

MikeArrow · 2024-02-02T11:19:19+00:00

I meet most of those criteria, but I'm very much below average due to my weight and my lack of a social circle. I live a very isolated lifestyle. When I did have friends though, it did nothing for my social life. We didn't do stuff like go to Ibiza, that's totally bizarre to me.

Secret_Sorbet_9674 · 2024-02-02T10:45:35+00:00

What seems reasonable and healthy or what you think would be better for men to be has nothing to do with what's average. I'd like for the vast majority of women to weight 10 stone or less, but it's definitely not remotely average in this day and age. Unless you have stats to go with your wishlist, that's all it is and not a benchmark of anything.

In particular, your rental property/mortgage stuff is a dead letter now: a very large proportion of young people in North America, Australia, the UK and Ireland certainly cannot afford and may never be able to afford to rent, let alone buy and are going to live at home for the foreseeable future.

DumbWordsmith · 2024-02-02T13:21:55+00:00

Average height or tall

I love how the "average" guy can be above the average height but not below the average height. That doesn't make sense. LOL.

Has a job or at least a career

I think you meant to write, "has a career or at least a job."

I'd say most "average" people are actually above average in some categories and below average in others.

Chongsu1496 · 2024-02-02T10:54:11+00:00

You have a very skewed perception of what actually average is . Your criterias are all subjective, and being average is something that differs from a country to another

snappy033 · 2024-02-02T13:32:16+00:00

Your criteria is completely arbitrary and not objective at all. Your take is very centered on a middle career IT guy with a desk job and maybe a bachelors degree who works 40 hrs and has time and money to go to the gym and have hobbies or trips. * The average guy is not in the gym every other day 😂 *The average American is more than a little pudgy. Only 30% of Americans are a healthy weight, 70% are overweight or obese with 40% being obese. Those people are not at the gym 4 days a week. * Average guy is borderline not steadily employed or comfortable. Esp in this economy. Look at how many 30-something people who work as Uber drivers or Doordashers. * Median income for men is under $60k a year * Only 30ish% of men have a college degree and most men work in blue collar jobs known to be less career-oriented, long hours, lower pay, harder work * Most Americans are not going to Ibiza or any sort of international vacations. Usually not even Vegas.

GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B · 2024-02-02T10:35:16+00:00

To me this is the average man who is above the age of 30

Average height or tall

If you're not tall, you're automatically below average in the eyes of most women.

social circle of friends they see on weekends and friends they can speak to

Yeah, that's hard for many men.

Facebook/Instagram

That's a no for me. I don't do social media like that.

Has a job or at least a career, perhaps not mega high earners

Six figures is poor now.

Has a mortgage or rented place and their own car

I get that.

Average body or maybe hits the gym every other day

Check the stats. The average person is overweight and does not work out. Women are on average fat and don't work out.

If your definition of average is all of these point combined, a majority will be filtered out.

Fearless_Method_1682 · 2024-02-02T11:32:50+00:00

The average man is not in the gym every other day, we'd need a fuck of a lot more gym space if he was. A gym regular Ibiza party guy with a big social circle and a house and a car is doing good, he's above average. You even start by telling us his height is average or better.

Doesthisevenmatter7 · 2024-02-02T12:37:21+00:00

Crazy that the man you described is almost assuredly not average in todays society. Tough world we live in.

Shebalied · 2024-02-02T15:39:40+00:00

OP most people lose their friend groups because they are starting families and don't do single stuff anymore.

That does not make you below average lmao.

LoFiPanda14 · 2024-02-02T14:19:49+00:00

Going to Ibiza with the bros is a new PPD meme.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-02-02T12:39:06+00:00

Average height or tall

Well that’s above average by definition

purplish_possum · 2024-02-02T15:39:19+00:00

Only about 10% of all thirty something guys are going to hit all those bullet points.

This is classic female math. Women don't notice 80% of guys. It follows that they see the mid point of the remainder as "average." Thus, "average" is 90th percentile.

Triglycerine · 2024-02-02T11:04:01+00:00

This was average when Netflix still rented out DVDs.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2024-02-02T13:21:52+00:00

So as a guy who meets or exceeds all of those criteria - over 30, over 6’ tall, social circle, vacations in Europe, 6 figure job, rocking a DILF bod (not ripped, but no big gut hanging over my belt) let me break it down for you:

We live in a world in which women think 80% of men are “below average.” Never mind that that is statistically impossible, it doesn’t bode well for anyone dating prospects. I don’t use Tinder, but for what I understand women basically swipe right on the top 5 to 10%, message the top 2% and then date the top one percent. And that is the problem for the average guy.

Have this sort of fantasy dream life of how they think it is for the top 20%. Except it’s not the top 20%, it’s the top 1%. You don’t hit six figures in salary and seven figures in assets and suddenly get invited onto yacht parties with Russian and Brazilian 22-year-old supermodels. You have to be a celebrity for that, rockstar or A-list actor, or you have to be the guy who owns the boat or maybe his childhood friend. There are some guys around the margins who might get into some clubs somewhere a few times, and think he’s the shit, but you get what I mean. We’re not talking about the guys who made the right connections, we’re talking about the average guy.

Unless you’re at that level you’re going to think that you’re struggling. I think that things are harder for me than they “should be“ but then I think about the 30% of guys who get absolutely zero pussy. Sure, I have to put in the work, but I also get to reap the rewards. I think for most guys, the situation is pretty bleak. Sure, you can fight your way out of that to some extent, but most guys are going to revert to the mean.

throwawayofc1112 · 2024-02-02T11:22:19+00:00

I’ve got all those things except I’ve never really gone on a “boys trip” with friends, would be fun though.

TomKikkert · 2024-02-02T13:45:42+00:00

You could make the same argument with women * under 60 kg * etc etc

The dating scene for men after 30 seems to be over ripe fruit and empty egg cartons

princedune · 2024-02-02T11:12:52+00:00

Average isnt a list of arbitrary traits you choose, its the average amongst all men. The person you described is above average.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-02-02T14:47:17+00:00

I think a lot of guys here probably are below average, but you described a slightly above average man, not an average one. For example, the average guy is either somewhat short, dead average, or somewhat tall. Not “average height or tall.” Has some friends, but probably doesn’t have enough money to go on a lot of vacations with them. Has a job that pays the bills but probably struggling a little like most people in this economy, etc.

Southern_Fall983 · 2024-02-02T15:32:30+00:00

“Average” people in general do not have a “social circle” they see regularly after 30+. No idea what you’re talking about

Ian_Campbell · 2024-02-02T18:56:19+00:00

Average comes from data, not from an imaginary middle position

apc4455 · 2024-02-02T10:37:14+00:00

> It isn't normal to not have a social circle of friends and acquaintances

For me it's this that makes me "below average" at this moment in time.

It started with the covid lockdowns, moving to a small town and working from home.

Before, I never had issues getting attention from women even tough I am only average at best in the looks department.

I think being disconnected from a social circle gets reflected on your general vibe.

It's not that you are necessarily full-on depressed or desperate, simply there's just a strange "vibe" around you, like something's off or tense, that women can subconsciously pick up on.

People are social animals and social interaction and being part of a social circle is essential. If you happen to be in a situation where you don't have this in your life you will have a hard time dating - and not just because of lack of options; there's just going to be a weird vibe around you that subconsciously pushes women away.

One should work on this first before trying to date.

Friedrich_Friedson · 2024-02-02T11:18:31+00:00

Average height or tall

Tall by definition ain't average. Not to mention extreme differences in height play a big part in influencing the "average" height.

Also short people are Bellow Average just for .... existing? Lmao

Has a social circle of friends they see on weekends and friends they can speak to if needed

Ok yeah i agree on this

Does stuff with said friends like going on vacation together or going the beach and has pictures of themselves doing stuff on Facebook/Instagram (going to Ibiza with the bros etc)

Guys if you ain't social media addicted you are bellow average/s

Has a job or at least a career, perhaps not mega high earners but earns enough to be comfortable

Capitalism: Am i a joke to you?

Has a mortgage or rented place and their own car

Capitalism: Am i a joke to you?

Also some people don't want to have a career or don't need to. My parents could easily afford one, never did

Average body or maybe hits the gym every other day but doesn't take it seriously so potentially a bit pudgy body (dadbod)

What does the average body entails?

Not to mention that this list doesn't take into account stuff like charm, education,witt, humour, hobbies etc.

ShelterNo2786 · 2024-02-02T12:37:28+00:00

Op is delusional:

the average height for adult males in the United States is approximately 5 feet 9 inches
Having an intimate group of friends like that seems to be a rare thing for men these days. In fact, according to a recent American Survey report, men have fewer social ties overall than they used to, with only 27% of men in 2021 saying they had at least six close friends compared to 55% in 1990. https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/why_friendships_among_men_are_so_important#:~:text=Having%20an%20intimate%20group%20of,compared%20to%2055%25%20in%201990.
Women vacation every 10 months, while men vacation every 12 months, according to an annual survey of travelers by SpringHill Suites hotels. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2013/04/25/vacation-travel-study/2110505/#:~:text=Women%20vacation%20every%2010%20months%2C%20while%20men%20vacation%20every%2012,travelers%20by%20SpringHill%20Suites%20hotels.
Average Salary in the USD $ 38,461 USD (2019)
the average weight of adult men in the United States is approximately 197.9 pounds (89.8 kilograms), WHICH IS CONSIDERED overweight

caption291 · 2024-02-02T11:19:08+00:00

Being average doesn't mean you are average or better at everything.

That's an above average person. Average people are bellow average in certain things and above average in others...

Also, it feels like you believe someone isn't average just because you don't consider what they are doing "normal". Average is average, it doesn't matter if you feel like it's normal or not.

jhunter2015 · 2024-02-02T13:54:42+00:00

Where are you guys meeting these friends that magically introduce you to women+love to go places? Most dudes don't have a secret list of hot chicks they can introduce you to.

Also making friends from mid 20s onward in a new town is extremely difficult due to social atomization. 30+ is almost impossible because most of your friends would have to be younger than you.

I agree with you mostly, I feel your being disingenuous about having social circle though, this doesn't magically help you meet women.

It sucks we have to do all this work meanwhile my 6'5 friend makes 36k and still slays

Agile-Explanation263 · 2024-02-02T12:01:46+00:00

What a privileged post lol.

Women don't give that much of a fuck about your job/economic status. The only thing that makes men below average is if you're physically attractive lol

How you look changes how certain factors in your life are percieved as well as opportunities. An attractive man making 6 figures is viewed as a full package. An ugly to average man making 6 figures is still only possibly good enough to settle for and will definitely be considered boring. Your ambition doesn't matter neither does your choices. Women will fling themselves at a pretty guy who struggles to work a minimum wage job. He's identified as "STRUGGLING" An ugly man in the same situation is viewed as lazy.

You can be funny and still have no social circle outside of work. Someone quiet but funny is a shock to womens system because it shows you can gain a social circle whenever you decide to while most people cling and can only live through said social circle.

SteakMitKetchup · 2024-02-02T12:56:15+00:00

Can confirm. I fulfill all these criteria except I'm 5'2" and ugly as fuck so I struggle. Getting maybe one date per year if I'm lucky.

tadL · 2024-02-02T10:33:44+00:00

As usual on the internet the ones that have problems go online to complain. That thing that bothers me is if people that have zero issues give advice ... downvotes , attacks and so on are the responses. Not every advice works for everyone. If you are fat and short. Well you won't be able to do what I did. So I don't post them like the truth. But many do.

But I enjoy this sub as an older person because young ♂️ and ♀️ need help as too many grew up without a father that should teach them the basics.

For example I am a single parent father of two young kids. I am banned from any sub in my native language that has topics like that.

Even my ama got me a ban.

That's why I like this sub. The mods are amazing.

Schmurby · 2024-02-02T10:36:50+00:00

Yeah, you are probably right. But if a man does not meet any of the criteria you mentioned (other than height), why would anyone want to date him?

Sounds like a lack of ambition and interest in life.

DarayRaven · 2024-02-02T11:11:57+00:00

Does stuff with said friends like going on vacation together or going the beach and has pictures of themselves doing stuff on Facebook/Instagram (going to Ibiza with the bros etc)

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-02-02T13:55:48+00:00

From the demo polls taken here: the average PPD male is 18-22, white, suburban and living in the USA.

Hoopy223 · 2024-02-02T16:27:56+00:00

OP a single guy who checks all those boxes will be top 1-3% statistically. The economics part is the toughest one, most working men cannot set aside the time or money to cultivate that rich social life.

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-02-02T12:37:05+00:00

They struggle because they’re not desirable to anyone. It’s really simple.

Crafty_Note397 · 2024-02-02T11:20:41+00:00

I would consider this pretty much the bare minimum except:

Vacations with friends-just have friends at least and see them in person sometimes. Having a car- if in a big city like London, NYC, Paris not an issue. Height-I don’t think tall is necessary but at least 5’7ish.

Breaker1617554 · 2024-02-02T11:30:10+00:00

I’m not struggling, I don’t try. I have seen the horrors that can arise from relationships, no thank you.

SecondEldenLord · 2024-02-02T12:52:14+00:00

Just because you don't have a circle of friends it doesn't mean you are not average. Some people moved for example at a later age and when you are older, ity is harder to make friends. I moved away from my country at 27 and in england, people are not easy to trust other people, especially foreigners. And I know a bunch of men with tons of friends and still 0 women in their life. Your circle of friends doesn't defy you at all. You can hang outwith a bunch of other nerds like yourself who play DND everyday.

enbaelien · 2024-02-02T14:01:26+00:00

It isn't normal to not have a stable career at 30+ and not have your own place (rented/mortgage) and a car.

Okay, Little Miss Classism, go off on your ignorance toward how fucked up the economy is right now.

JohnGoodman_69 · 2024-02-02T14:36:33+00:00

To me this is the average man who is above the age of 30

Average height or tall

How is the average man tall?

captainhowdy82 · 2024-02-02T18:01:47+00:00

I think the whole approach of listing a person’s pro’s and con’s to determine if they are “average” is misguided. No woman is choosing men based on a rubric. Attraction doesn’t work like that. The men on this sub evidently have terrible personalities and misogynistic opinions, so of course they don’t do well with normal women.

hongsta2285 · 2024-02-02T20:03:11+00:00

Doesn't matter at the end of the day u get what u deserve and the bill is always due.

MailenJokerbell · 2024-02-02T11:34:17+00:00

The men saying this is already above average have already proven OP's point about the kind of people in this subreddit.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-02-02T10:55:53+00:00

Sounds spot on. Also, Reddit attracts complainers in the first place.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-02-02T13:06:45+00:00

The hilarious part of this is that the comments complaining that these aren’t actually “average” characteristics are the same guys who consider “average” women to be the “average” of the women who they are attracted to aka 18-24, 19-21 bmi but with magically large natural breasts and ass (but no cellulite of course), long lustrous hair, pretty face, etc etc etc. 🤣

Expensive-Tea455 · 2024-02-02T13:44:38+00:00

There’s a lot of men on this sub with over inflated egos that won’t allow themselves to admit they’re not as great as they think they are….

Safinated · 2024-02-02T15:02:20+00:00

Judging from the answers, you are right

People here are more delusional about themselves than I thought, sad to see

CountMandrake · 2024-02-02T11:34:48+00:00

Average height or tall Has a social circle of friends they see on weekends and friends they can speak to if needed Does stuff with said friends like going on vacation together or going the beach and has pictures of themselves doing stuff on Facebook/Instagram (going to Ibiza with the bros etc) Has a job or at least a career, perhaps not mega high earners but earns enough to be comfortable Has a mortgage or rented place and their own car Average body or maybe hits the gym every other day but doesn't take it seriously so potentially a bit pudgy body (dadbod)

If a man meets all this criteria, he's not average but only in height.

Unless I mean, he's like +30 years old, and even then...

By the way, this is very true in Latin America, less true in the US, and somewhat true in Europe. European have a high quality of life, cars are cheap and Ibiza is basically a block away... But even then the average single man doesn't own a place.

And of course, european women expect way more than your average when it comes to dating.

Your average 27 years old guy doesn't have a car, his own place and money to party at top locations man.

BTW, I'm 6.3', 200 lbs jacked, I have a pleasant face, blue eyes, black hair and beard, tatts and a good sense of style.

Plus I've traveled around a lot (19 countries, including the Americas from top to bottom) I play three musical instruments, speak four languages fluently and I'm very educated culturally speaking.

And if that wasn't enough, I own not one but two cars, and a bike, I have my own house, three bussineses and I'm in the top 5-3% earners in my country.

Quite high N-count BTW, currently dating three gals (open relationships) so it's not like I'm struggling but...

Yeah, on my daily life, I come across more women that think I'm absolutely average that women who think I'm outstanding.

In fact, even when I get approached quite a lot, I get told way more times that I'm lacking in some way, shape or form, or that sone woman wouldn't date me because X, or that I think I'm way better than I'm actually are because Y, than the times a woman tells me I'm exceptional in some aspect or area in my life, which I do not require people to do it, but it's perfectly reassonable when they do.

Because lets be honest, I'm fucking awesome and I know it.

No way their average sorry asses can tell me otherwise unless they actually BELIEVE IT.

So yeah, I feel sorry for average dudes out there.

Lots of delusional and entitled ugly bitches walking the streets out there. There are only a few good ones and I'm already dating them all.

SnooCupcakes9990 · 2024-02-02T11:59:55+00:00

Damn since I am short, I guess I am automatically below average. Doesn't matter if I work out or have everything else, lol

A bit far fetched but alright...

jaybalvinman · 2024-02-02T12:54:15+00:00

How does your theoretical "average man" look in the face? You left out about 70% of the measurement women use to determine how average you are. Most of the things you mentioned doesnt matter to women.

Citadelnib · 2024-02-02T12:55:44+00:00

This is a forum about modern dating, it’s not a dating site. I’m so tired of this condescending idea that men have to be partnered to have value.

campskills21 · 2024-02-02T14:52:37+00:00

The sad thing about your list is it’s indicative that you are at least in top 1/3 of men and that’s not good enough for dating. You need to be in the top 5% of men in your age bracket to control the action with cute girls.

Unless your social circle is cool and hot doing top tier activities, no girl is going to care, you’re overrating friends.

kendrac83 · 2024-02-02T15:21:04+00:00

Well you are average for your age because that's what happens to bachelor men in their late 30s typically. You may still talk to friends on the phone or online gaming, but you only see them maybe a few times a year. That's why men age out of "dating for fun" at that time too. Because it's less exciting for a woman if a man has no social life. So then a man has to treat women as more serious prospects....she becomes the friend he sees all the time.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2024-02-02T15:35:27+00:00

Has a mortgage or rented place and their own car

Average

Op is delusional.

WowYouMustBeJoking · 2024-02-02T15:41:28+00:00

LOL what a horrible take. Teachers who are low paid just aren't teaching hard enough. People who can't afford housing probably just have bottom percentile jobs. Never mind that half of the US tenants can't really afford rent. No one in this sub is talking about their personal experience, what's being discussed is how it is for many if not most men.

Also, you're absolutely delusional if this is how you define average.

Average height or tall

Average height is average. Tall is above average. If you want to have a range, then you need to add some of the below height as well, so it's symmetric around average. If average is 5'9", you can't say that "for you" average is 5'9"-6'. If you want to allow for a deviation of 3", then it should be on each side and would be 5'6"-6' in this example.

Does stuff with said friends like going on vacation together or going the beach and has pictures of themselves doing stuff on Facebook/Instagram (going to Ibiza with the bros etc)

Average man is going to Ibiza in this economy? Delusional.

Has a job or at least a career, perhaps not mega high earners but earns enough to be comfortable

Again, in this economy? Average salary in the US is 42k a year. That's pretty far from being comfortable.

Has a mortgage or rented place and their own car

For reals? Have you seen the numbers? Average person? Assuming you mean the car is paid off and if they rent then it's without roommate. That's what you meant right? How new/expensive of a car did you imagine?

Average body or maybe hits the gym every other day but doesn't take it seriously so potentially a bit pudgy body (dadbod)

Average body is more pudgy than just a bit.

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2024-02-02T12:48:19+00:00

i'm above average in most of the metrics you mentioned and while the odds are good, the goods are odd. i don't think it's only below average guys struggling with dating, depending on what you define as struggling of course.

Preme2 · 2024-02-02T13:16:07+00:00

Too many people in here are arguing about being average. Thats fine with me. If I’m below average then where are all the below average women at?

pessimisticwoman · 2024-02-02T14:02:03+00:00

Just observing how the men on this sub about talk about themselves is so clear they have a horrible entitlement + a victim and superiority complex working in tandem to delude them into believing the big bad evil women 👿 are out to get them and depriving them of their hard earned pussy. It’s so incredibly insufferable. I hope they don’t act this pathetic in real life.

No-Lynx657 · 2024-02-02T14:35:05+00:00

It sounds very obvious to me, above average men dont complain

Natural-Tear-2899 · 2024-02-02T19:59:28+00:00

Seeing the comments, it seems most men are below average, according to statistics. Also, coming from a woman, I think it would've been important to mention charismatic on your list. I know guys that are fine, tall, make good money & have a lot less luck w women than the man who can talk. Making a woman laugh, smile, think & feel heard is what a lot of us look for. You can always work on charisma & attitude as well as maintain a decent job

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Intelligent_Mango713 · 2024-02-02T10:50:56+00:00

Average in America is overweight. No wonder women are choosing to be single and men are passport bros.

zoxzoxzo · 2024-02-02T11:24:34+00:00

I agree that these points should define an average man.
However, I believe that in this day and age with this economy, shift in how we date, socialize and spend time alone, food industry and all the rest, there is not a huge percentage of men that check all of these boxes, thus being slightly below average becomes the new average.

Werkgxj · 2024-02-02T13:02:46+00:00

Do you have a boyfriend/ husband that fits those criterias?

sooperflooede · 2024-02-02T13:21:22+00:00

Why would the average man more likely be tall than short?

Crushed_95 · 2024-02-02T13:26:03+00:00

What average man goes to the beach with their friends and takes pictures with them?

TheFutureIsNow1990 · 2024-02-02T13:41:42+00:00

You have a decent enough understanding of an average guy. Couple of points you're getting wrong:

"having to rely 100% on dating apps because there are no women in your life" ... This is nonsense. Relying on approaching the occasional single attractive girl who shows up in your personal friend circle imposes a freakish level of scarcity. Dating apps are an amazing gift. Since you don't recognize that, your profile is probably shit. Don't attempt to "show girls the real you". Instead, treat your profile like an opportunity to do sales, where you're the product: showcase all the cool things going on in your life, so that a woman would be excited to become a part of it. If cool things are not happening, your product needs improvement. Engineer a life full of cool things. Also, don't be fat.
Also you're apparently confused by the unusual ease of college and post-college social life where you fall over new friends every semester. That's not "normal". Instead, "normal" means joining groups of like-minded mixed-gender activities in real life, or even initiating your own groups on discord or Meetup, like sports, arts, interests, and meeting friends there. Go where the girls are that you're interested in. Activities full of cocks are not helpful, e.g. tabletop games. (Conversely, activities full of cocks are great for lonely girls who want better social circles, e.g. tabletop games. But beware, here there be neckbeards.)
Fundamentally, you don't seem to be treating your dating life as an engineering problem. You make no suggestion that you're in shape, or have interesting sports or hobbies that girls would like. Dating is an engineering problem. Write things down, make plans, execute the plans, and just do the work. Definitely don't expect girls to dig you if you can't be bothered to engineer a social life, engineer a fitter body, and generally just be leaderly with yourself and not be a slob.

reddit_is_geh · 2024-02-02T13:42:59+00:00

They did a poll in this sub, it's OVERWHELMINGLY very young people, like sub 23, virgins, or men who've only been with like 1-2 women. By that age I'd already been with like 20 chicks, so I can see how some of these men think everything is awful.

But honestly, I just think this is the new normal. These guys aren't any less than they were in my generation, just that dating apps created way way way more options for women as well as men being way way way less social so they aren't interacting with as many women.

TRTGymBro · 2024-02-02T13:46:28+00:00

It's so funny to me. The number one dating advice women tell men is "just be confident". Have you ever stopped to think what this means? Let me reveal it to you.

It means "if you like yourself and consider yourself my equal, I will like you and co softer you my equal as well and I may even date you".

Here is another truth for you. Men say women are attracted to status first and foremost. Have you considered that status changes culture by culture? For example, in Europe a footballer would be treated like a god. I've read stories even here on PPD where a famous player left the club with 10 of the hottest women! In the same night!

Now if this footballer comes over to the US, where nobody watches soccer, he probably wouldn't even be able to get a number. Same with American football players. In the US they'd get hot cheerleaders. If they went to Europe, every woman would think they look like fat bloated American tourists.

You think a tall, white man is super high status. But put him in the Amazon jungle and the indigenous people would probably think he is just sickly, pale weakling.

See, status is subjective and totally dependent not only on the larger culture but even on the specific context. A boss in a company may have a fan base of women who work there, but outside of his job, no other women lay him attention. A guy may be a DJ at a specific club and have girls throwing themselves at him every night when he spins, but outside of the club nobody knows or cares about who he is.

But...there is one thing that always informs women about whether a man is a high status or not. And that's how this man feels about himself. So...if you perceive yourself as an average or below average male, with nothing to offer, who is a loser and so on and so forth, what do you think women will perceive you as? You guessed it! An average or below average loser with nothing going on for him.

I have a lot of the attributes that women supposedly simp over. In relatively tall, I'm well built, I dress well, I have a six figure job, have interesting hobbies (guitar), Im well traveled, etc. But the one thing that has been consistent over my life has been that if I don't feel good about myself, women treat me like I'm invisible. And when I do feel good about myself, I can't keep them off of me. And the same has been true when I was earning much less, was a skinny twig with no muscle and didn't have nearly the same experience I have now.

Everything comes down to how you treat yourself and how you feel about yourself. At the end that's the only thing that makes a real difference. When guys say that they went to the gym and got jacked and all of a sudden women started showing them interest, it isn't necessarily because they got jacked, but because their perception of themselves changed. All of a sudden they started telling themselves in the mirror "damn man, you are looking good, I'm so proud of myself to have the discipline to achieve my fitness goals".

These things change you on a deeper level. Your identity and self perception changes when you challenge yourself and start respecting yourself more. But by the same token, you can look at yourself and think "I'm just average, why would any body want old me, I'm frumpy and fat, I'm not interesting, blah blah blah" and then they wonder why women treat them like they don't exist.

TheGreatBeefSupreme · 2024-02-02T13:54:12+00:00

Why would an average man be average height or taller? That’s an above average man.

henrycatalina · 2024-02-02T14:07:33+00:00

You can not use the word average to describe the complexities of people. Physical differences of height and weight are objective, so there are averages. Beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder. Social circles depend on many different personality traits and one's present situation. Introverts and extroverts and other types of people create too many variablities.

There is a YouTuber (hoe math) that has videos that I think are the absolute genius analysis of relationships and differences between men and women. I believe it is timesless in how the two sexes view each other. It explains how today's environment has distorted the environment for relationships.

Why are you here...

I think it is the observation of the distortion in the dating market and the effects of changing long-standing moral codes combined with technology that allows communication without face to face and in person presence. Today, you can be a hermit with a job, a place to live, entertainment, and obtain what you need to sustain life, but never touch a human.

EdwardTheeMasterful · 2024-02-02T14:26:37+00:00

There was a post approximately a week or two ago explaining how an above average Chad light was still struggling in this world of delusional thinking 💭 women. To think men don’t struggle with romance is akin to thinking like flat earther.

StopTheIncels · 2024-02-02T14:27:04+00:00

I'm gonna correct you on your stupid definitions:

Average height or tall

This is 5'9" in the US.

Has a social circle of friends they see on weekends and friends they can speak to if needed

This is would imply more than one close friend. 2+ at least. Average man has ~1 close friend.

Does stuff with said friends like going on vacation together or going the beach and has pictures of themselves doing stuff on Facebook/Instagram (going to Ibiza with the bros etc)

This is your only normal take

Has a job or at least a career, perhaps not mega high earners but earns enough to be comfortable

Average man is ~45k/year in the US (this is a big deal breaker to most women if you're college educated)

Has a mortgage or rented place and their own car

LOL. I have two friends who have mortgage and they ware SWEs. Most people rent, and larger portion of sub 30 live at home/ with parents. Average is something like renting ~1500+ for 1br in decently sized city.

Average body or maybe hits the gym every other day but doesn't take it seriously so potentially a bit pudgy body (dadbod)

Average man is ~200lbs CDC in the US. Granted 5'9" at 200lbs is not as bad as 5'3" ~170lbs (CDC average woman)

Purple_Kangaroo8549 · 2024-02-02T14:27:15+00:00

Does stuff with said friends like going on vacation together or going the beach and has pictures of themselves doing stuff on Facebook/Instagram (going to Ibiza with the bros etc)

Yeah no.

Altruistic_Talk_828 · 2024-02-02T14:31:14+00:00

So now we know you have no fucking clue what the average man is like. Great.

Also "going to Ibiza with the bros"? Lolwut? Dude, if I was traveling, it'd be to pick up chicks. Fuck the bros.

ThelastguyonMars · 2024-02-02T15:03:26+00:00

you need a big D today too-I sleep with women w my 5.7 in and boi they run fast afterwards. its so sucky today.....

Zombombaby · 2024-02-02T15:10:07+00:00

I honestly somewhat agree but not in the same way that you might think.

I think a lot of men aren't taught the social and emotional skills to process the work that goes into those areas. Being emotionally intelligent is a lot of work.

I'm working on an autism diagnosis for myself but I'm one of those people who struggles maintaining relationships. I get burnt out easily, I shut down, I feel overwhelmed, and it can happen mid conversation. I like friends I don't have to hang out with every day. I struggle with making sure I am making the right facial responses. I struggle to make sure they're enjoying themselves as much as I am. With conversation flow. Eye contact. Reading emotions. It's like doing complicated math problems and feeling drained afterwards if you want a comparison.

So I surround myself with friends who understand I will be there for them in a heartbeat bur I can't do constant maintenance. I need to unwind and process and have my own space. So a lot of my friends do the same and I have built some really strong friendships with people I only talk to intermediataly. Who fit my lifestyle, etc. And it's easier to connect with other neuro-divergents and largely women (formally men though prior to my husband. I was a virgin with a lot of guys friends for a long time).

I do not doubt for a second that a lot of men feel the exact same way about relationships. Their friendships fit their lifestyles and don't seem like work because you can easily agree on things.

I have a neuro-typical husband and we had to go to couples counselling to figure out how to talk to each other after 14 years. And we are in a much better place now and we genuinely love each other but it took REAL WORK to get here. And it'll take a lot more to keep going.

You're right. It is work. And average means doing that work to improve for ourselves. We both go to therapy. We both work on providing our own happiness so we can bring the best out in each other. I had to do a lot of self reflection and worm through a lot of issues as much as my husband did. But relationships are work.

Yes, we know that there are huge benefits to being in each other's lives. We have similar values, parenting styles, financial ambitions, political leanings, taste in music, we like each others friends and families, we value health and fitness, we both have traumatic backgrounds, we work construction, etc. He makes my life easier and balances domestic duties with me, etc. And I do the same.

We can recognize where our relationship needs work together. That's what makes it average. I don't need a mansion, 10 vacations a year and designer brands. I just want someone who loves me and can struggle with me during the bad times and can celebrate the good times. My victory should be his and his victory should be mine.

That's why people are more than happy with average. You don't need to have the job, the car, the haircut or the girl. But you need to show you are able to grow with someone.

Satan_and_Communism · 2024-02-02T15:31:02+00:00

This guy really said “average” and then just, chose things.

It’s fine to set lines for things but then just labeling it average is silly.

Also go make some friends dude?

sixsevenrice · 2024-02-02T15:33:11+00:00

Meanwhile a 300 pound grandma will absolutely slay on tinder.

Makes sense.

Quad-Banned120 · 2024-02-02T15:41:50+00:00

I feel like I sit within your parameters and have personally never experienced most of the situations that people here seem to consider an inherent part of being a man.
I think it's a social skills thing though, definitely. When I was single and had nothing to do on a night off I'd head down to our entertainment district and find something to do. Generally I'd wander around by myself, talk to people sometimes become absorbed into someone else's group on their outing- it was fun. I'd chat up whomever without expectations and it would catch people off guard fairly often. I wasn't looking to take anyone home; was there to vibe and dance like an idiot but still got propositioned enough that I've never even tried OLD. It just straight up seems more difficult than just going out and doing stuff.

Awkward-Manager5939 · 2024-02-02T15:46:34+00:00

The correct answer is the guys in this sub have social adaptability problems.

AuraCore-main · 2024-02-02T15:50:00+00:00

Why do you care or this sub for that matter

SoPolitico · 2024-02-02T16:05:19+00:00

If you pay attention at all to statistics, then almost none of these things are average

Jehshehabah · 2024-02-02T16:06:24+00:00

for fun I wanna see where I'm at based on your criteria

6'1 so no issue there
I hang with most of my friends online, we game on weekends. Most of my hs pals went to a different college which means we can only really do stuff online. Covid pretty much torpedoed my chances of building long-term friendships in college cause I didn't rush greek life in 2020.
I've only been on vacation once in the past 4 years for study abroad, and that was for a week. I have a total of 3 photos on my instagram, one with my family, one with a group of friends and one of me on my study abroad trip.
Corporate job and nice car (not mega high earner but well above avg)
no mortgage cause I'm renting
161lbs abs / toned not built like a monster but the lean gains type look

oh, and black + facially unattractive, which pretty much negates everything else.

thoughtcrime84 · 2024-02-02T16:25:35+00:00

TIL that I’m below average because I don’t go on vacations with my bros and post pics on social media.

Just seems like a strange bar but I get that some women put a lot of stock in outward appearances. Personally I don’t have time to for most of that stuff, and I would strongly prefer going on vacation solo over “partying in Ibiza with the boys.”

TophetLoader · 2024-02-02T16:36:33+00:00

To me this is the average man who is above the age of 30 (...) Average height or tall (...) Average body or maybe hits the gym every other day (...) To me this is an average man."

To me this is the average number between 1 and 100: - 50 or higher. In each single aspect. To me this is the average number between 1 and 100! 😀

raldabos · 2024-02-02T16:37:43+00:00

Yeah, the average person is going to Europe every year wooohw.

Rockkk333 · 2024-02-02T16:42:45+00:00

Hm, so your average man
is 'average height or tall' (this alone makes him above average, doesn't it)
'goes to Ibiza with the bros'

biscuitcatapult · 2024-02-02T16:44:51+00:00

So what happens if we meet or exceed all those benchmarks and we still struggle? Do our opinions actually matter then?

izzzy12k · 2024-02-02T16:45:32+00:00

A social circle would only bring people around you of your same age group.. and like you mentioned, your friends got married and started families.

In such a situation (myself included in this scenario), you'd be around a bunch of married people who seem to never have any single friends.. specifically single women friends.

I think the reason is because, no wife is going to bring such threats (women generally are very jealous) around her guy.. Lol!

So ending up as a lone wolf, is inevitable.

Hecatehel · 2024-02-02T16:46:32+00:00

Huh, that’s weird, I guess I’ve just gotten lucky cause I don’t check off any of those and I’m 33 years old now and haven’t been single for more than 4 months since like 13 🤔

this is probably applicable if you’re interested in super normal girls though.

PMmeareasontolive · 2024-02-02T16:54:35+00:00

But my social circle dried up years ago when my friends moved away, started their own family/bought a house and focused on that etc. Since then my social life has basically been non existent and my 30s has been pretty bad.

This is pretty average too though. I'm on my fourth city now and once you're into your 30's hanging out at bars and partying can feel tedious.

I also think your budgeting is off. Meaning, if you live in a big city, you are likely to have a roommate or 2 or 3. If you have your own place it's likely you are on a budget that precludes a lot of travel and luxury spending. Not many trips to Ibeza. Also I question your assumption that guys are thinking foremost about online self promotion with group photos when they are out doing stuff. They should but that isn't average.

And if you're younger, how are you going to afford a place by yourself? That's nuts.

In short, I don't think you are describing a real person at all, unless it's someone who stayed in the same small town they grew up in, or someone who was lucky enough to land a very good job out of college.

RecreationalPorpoise · 2024-02-02T16:54:39+00:00

I’m above average in many regards (like height, handsomeness, career success), but that only gets me attraction from women, not effort. I’ve gone through hundreds of matches and many dates, as well as some hookups, but almost never has a woman put effort into starting a real relationship.

redback-spider · 2024-02-02T16:58:38+00:00

Average body or maybe hits the gym every other day but doesn't take it seriously so potentially a bit pudgy body (dadbod), that is not what >50% men do.

GetStickBugged1337 · 2024-02-02T17:12:12+00:00

This is a delusion

madd_sunshine · 2024-02-02T17:34:40+00:00

To all the comments attacking this, I hear you, but really all OP is saying is that the average man has something going on in his life, or seeks out things to improve or challenge or benefit himself. And that others notice this. If they’re a people person, they like to surround themselves with good people. They don’t need to rely on someone else having a life to jump onto or to criticize.

karmaBerserk · 2024-02-02T17:55:48+00:00

Ibiza... Average, the deletion...

Zabadoodude · 2024-02-02T18:04:31+00:00

For each category you describe the average, then also the above average. The average man will be above average in some and below average in others. For example a man that is tall, and has a good career will still be average if he doesn't have much of a social life.

sweetestpineapple · 2024-02-02T18:09:25+00:00

I noticed this too. Most redditors are not normal people, no offense. They’re more introverted, chronically online and anxious than normies. The guys that struggle THIS hard to get a relationship…there’s a reason. Either a personality/mental thing or a hygiene/grooming related looks thing. Average guys have a few medium to long term relationships, maybe a hookup here and there, and get married at some point before middle age. Average is a pretty large and generous range.

Kagenikakushiteru · 2024-02-02T18:11:18+00:00

Most guys who are scoring women aren’t spending time wailing about the stuff you’re saying. And sometimes they live in a shared house and don’t have muscles either

Mr_Vaynewoode · 2024-02-02T18:20:03+00:00

Frame of reference issue. Check the stats.

Also remember that unemployment stats screen out for long-term unemployed, so the numbers are worse than you think.

Cablepussy · 2024-02-02T18:21:08+00:00

My god you are out of touch.

favabeansandwine · 2024-02-02T18:23:59+00:00

Nope. They're probably AVERAGE. Average men struggle today. Below average men, they have no hope.

Average women today get above average men.

A man today needs to be the best at everything just to "qualify" for an ordinary woman. She has a degree. She has a "job that she loves". LOL. So fucking what? That's all she brings to the table? In most cases, yes. That's all she brings.

Oh, and there are lots of social circles that are completely devoid of single women. And more yet that DO have single women, but they prefer online/OLD means of meeting people and people IRL are just NPCs or a source of entertainment for them.

I've literally had women suggest I get in line in her phone for the privilege of getting to know her.

"In person" means almost nothing now. Women use phones to meet and vet men. They are phone addicts.

Leaving-trunk2 · 2024-02-02T18:27:56+00:00

I just want to point out that there are people here who can get laid and have had multiple meaningful relationships. Sometimes people have had no lack of success or opportunity. Sometimes the people here are jaded because they have had success or have had long term relationships.

BraSpider · 2024-02-02T18:29:01+00:00

How is the average person of average height or taller, but not shorter?

waditdo · 2024-02-02T19:05:48+00:00

I'm with you. I'm also in IT. It's a good career. But my friends are gone long ago mostly. And lucky for me I was usually a loner (immigrated here and never fully fit in). So I don't mind it.

But it's true that for some women or people they might see you as "below average" as you put it. But I don't think you should see yourself that way. You are you. Some people are sociable and make friends easily and just are magnets, some are not. That doesn't make them any less. Plenty of introverts who are cool people but just don't feel the need to have a big social circle. It can be exhausting interacting with people, they can drain your energy

There's introverted women out there too, or women who don't mind you don't have a big social circle, they may just see you as a person and your substance and that can be enough. Same might be true when they're looking at your employment status or Height (that one's much tougher) or penis size or your body/physique

RidingRedHare · 2024-02-02T19:26:39+00:00

That's a weird definition of "average".

Average height or tall

"Tall" is above average. Average height of American men is 5'9".

earns enough to be comfortable

That's well above average. Many people are living paycheck to paycheck and are struggling to pay the rent.

It isn't normal to not have a stable career at 30+

The bulk of men on this subreddit are younger than 30. It is perfectly normal to not have a stable career at age 20 or 25.

AidsVictim · 2024-02-02T19:29:12+00:00

Mortgage, good career, large social circle at 30, can afford vacations to Ibiza basically describes someone in the top 20% without even bringing looks into it yet.

I mean take myself for example. I thought I was average. I have a career in IT which pays me comfortably. I have a car and rent my own place. But my social circle dried up years ago when my friends moved away, started their own family/bought a house and focused on that etc. Since then my social life has basically been non existent and my 30s has been pretty bad. I would say I am below average for this reason because an average man would have access to a social circle, which would give them access to single women.

Honestly sounds like you're buying into social media selling you what's average, not what actually is.

No_Constant7907 · 2024-02-02T19:37:42+00:00

Men on this sub are probably below average which is why they are struggling

Yeah thats true. Based on my experience, if you're above average as a man you can expect to get a ton of play. But that doesn't fix dating issues in the slightest btw.

For example, I work at a gym as a personal trainer. One of our front desk workers is a young man, 21 years old and is very happy. He's good looking, about 5'9 150lbs, and 14% bf. He's a bit autistic, but he has a girlfriend. She's a very pretty goth girl. I've on several occasions seen our female members walk into the the gym and hit on him really hard.

I have another buddy who's a competitive athlete. 5'11, 205lbs at 15% bf. He's fucking a new girl pretty much whenever he wants. He always comes into work super tired because he stayed up all night having sex.

I even have a shorter co worker who's about 5'5 and 30lbs overweight. He's married with a child.

Another one who's 5'7, 150lbs and about 15% bf as well. He is also married and has had tons of girlfriends over the years.

And myself, I've had several members in our gym hit on me and multiple of my female co workers. And last week I had a lesbian woman ask me to sleep with her and her wife.

If you are friendly, you're not fat, (anything above 17% bodyfat is fat by the way) and you're not a creep then women will want to be with you and make it very known. I think there's a severe lack of men who look for LTR in the US and that many of the men who get no play are read very quickly as someone who's just trying to get easy casual sex and will offer no commitment. Women are good at reading that. Most men don't even know when they're acting this way, it's just natural.

puddingbike · 2024-02-02T19:43:29+00:00

The idiocy of this post begins in the very first sentence:

To me this is the average man who is above the age of 30: Average height or tall

So, let's see here...average height means that a man is either average height or tall. Never mind that "tall" by definition is not average because if it were average it wouldn't be tall.

iassureyouimreal · 2024-02-02T19:52:05+00:00

You’re right

darkwindhowls · 2024-02-02T20:16:15+00:00

Your list is false in that many of the listed traits are above average and that regardless of covariance the traits listed occurring together would make a man much above average.

Your general argument is brain dead. It's the age old assumption that the status quo can only be complained about by its most extreme malcontents.

Come back when you learn basic Macro level thinking devoid of spurious fallacies.

breezy-shorts · 2024-02-02T20:33:59+00:00

My social circle is just a bunch of a couples who want to go to breweries or drink at home. They don’t bring new people in to the group. There is no meeting new people it’s really dull

pronouns-king-lord · 2024-02-02T21:04:10+00:00

Anyone posting on reddit has the time to workout and have a social life, your priorities are just wrong.

ComfortableOk5003 · 2024-02-02T21:42:41+00:00

Your definition of average is not the actual average, purely by looking at social statistics.

Lonely-Illustrator64 · 2024-02-02T21:49:24+00:00

In the states almost 50% of the adult population is obese. Not just over weight- obese. Only 5% of people world wide have been on a plane. So the idea that the average 30 year old male is in the gym every other day or flying to Ibiza to have photoshoots with friends is quite absurd. Hell the median savings for Americans under 35 is $3,240. Lots of people are struggling just to put food on the table and pay rent. What you listed is not average. Myself id say I fair pretty well, likely better than a lot of men in this sub. Yet even I don’t meet your list of requirements because I don’t own a car. Also if we’re talking about this in terms of dating I know men who have maybe one or two things listed here and still get dates. I know men with all who get none. You don’t have to be your idea of “average” to get women. You have to have charisma and unfortunately that’s something many lack.

ro_man_charity · 2024-02-02T22:02:20+00:00

I don't know about their looks or incomes, but demonstrated attitudes definitely make them hopelessly undatable. Feels like I observe collective mass grave digging effort.

CryptoThroway8205 · 2024-02-02T22:33:20+00:00

"Yeah that's true for the other guys on this sub, but not me" - Every guy on the sub right now

Proudvow · 2024-02-02T23:07:01+00:00

https://igotstandardsbro.com/

The amount of American men age 21 to 50 who are at least 5'9 tall and aren't obese and make at least $40k a year is a whopping 15.8%.

And note that this doesn't consider all the other traits that could render a man below average, like being just kinda fat or too thin, being facially ugly, having a social impairment, being disabled in some fashion, etc.

A man who is not below average in any area is literally a top 10% male.

CompetitiveFortune55 · 2024-02-02T23:16:41+00:00

It is simple, men want women to lower their standards because they view the goal post has moved. "I'm average! I jerk it to porn 6 hours a day, play video games all night, and work 20 hours a week. Why don't women want to fuck me?? They just want gigachads with 100k salaries! I give up!! Stupid whores."

What used to be attainable by 30 (rent/own home, car, full-time job, etc) is definitely becoming less of the norm at least in the US, so men are just lazily calling themselves average and whining when they can't get a date. Women have become less accommodating to men in general because of the lack of effort, lack of ambition, general laziness we see men BLAMING US FOR. The point is, aim for accomplishments for yourself first, become self-aware, self-sufficient, first.

dirty_cheeser · 2024-02-02T23:17:30+00:00

Conditional probabilities come by multiplying the probabilities assuming no colinearity. So being in the top 50% to be at or above the average of the height, fitness, career, and social categories is .5 * .5 * .5 * .5 or 6.25%.

Then your assumption of average is way off:

The median salary at age 30 in the USA is 50k, good luck taking regular trips to Ibiza with that. I just spent ~2k on a snow trip for this coming weekend with my gf, i could not do that if I only made 50k. I live in the suburbs, not a big city, and it still would be hard to do the 4-5 vacations we do per year with less than 100k or so. That would put the requirement in the top 15.5%.

According to pew, the median person reports 4 "close" friends but then men are more likely than not to not talk about vulnerable topics like physical and mental health issues to their friends. This questions the definition of "close friend" they use when responding to this question, i would not consider someone I could not talk to about this to be anything more than an acquaintance. So 4 is probably way overstating the number of actual close friends people have. My friends and I are super open about physical and mental health issues but apparently, that is rare. Both men and women usually also have more same-gender friends so having friends won't save most men from needing to rely on dating apps. Based on the 4 "friends" of very questionable quality with ~70% of them being other men, most don't have a good enough social life to date through friends. I would guess only ~20% of men have the healthy social lives you describe.

So if you want someone with disposable income for regular international trips with friends, a close friend circle good enough to not rely on dating apps, average or better height and fitness all combined. That's probably more like .155 * .2 *.5 * .5 = 0.00775 = 0.775% of men.

pternal · 2024-02-02T23:31:39+00:00

Average American female is 5’4 and 170 lbs

EntireVacation7000 · 2024-02-03T00:00:44+00:00

To me this is the average man who is above the age of 30

Average height or tall

Not to be dismissive, but I stopped reading there. The average man is average height. There's some fundamental problems with stats literacy here.

The-cake-is-a-Lie- · 2024-02-03T01:56:22+00:00

Why are you trying to trigger people

all-sharp-edges · 2024-02-03T02:02:49+00:00

yeah no shit - I stumbled in here maybe 90 seconds ago and you guys are off the reservation. That's not an insult; it just is. The ideas being floated wrt what women want by men who only see trees operating under a misguided philosophy that will never work.

We're not putty that can be made into something else entirely. This weird game of min/max'ing outward behavior is just a lie and will never come off as genuine.

Confidence, intelligence, a sense of humor, and strength of character. Dress well enough, exercise a bit, brush your teeth and improve yourself continuously. Admit when you're wrong to yourself first so there can be growth. don't be an asshole. Learn a thing. Learn how to handle emotions and resolve conflict. don't be a static moron wondering why that +12 to whatever stupid BS you think is important isn't helping.

Confidence is the big one and you can't fake it. Unfortunately, you can't lie to yourself. Well, most of us can't. Your lack of confidence almost certainly comes from your lack of having earned it. Stop wasting time pretending and go earn it, or don't and at least be honest as to why.

Just be a real person who acts according to a set of values at all times and get a haircut. smile and make eye contact. Don't overcomplicate it so much. actually care for the other person, not how they make you feel.

And with that stream of consciousness having exited, for better or worse, I'm out, never to return.

p.s. The blue/red/purple shit is cringe. You wouldn't want them to find out about this place.

eliza_frodo · 2024-02-03T02:05:42+00:00

Shots fired 💀💀💀

Solid-City-3798 · 2024-02-03T02:18:23+00:00

Honestly, men need to stop thinking women really care that much about their bodies, cars, and friends. Its hard to find a man who you can trust. Like a decent human being. Its easy to find a hot, shady, successful man. Women deal with immeasurable cruelty from men and most just want to date someone with a kind heart. Its almost impossible to find that. Most men just want to use you for whatever they need you for. And couldnt care less about your feelings.

The men on here can't find enough dates because they are ugly on the inside.

Radiant_Specific6542 · 2024-02-03T04:44:32+00:00

People underestimate the power of social circles in life, and in the dating game. Even more valuable is a female friend that you treat only as a friend. Pick a social female who likes to play match maker. Here's the thing, NEVER engage in any romantic activity. She's primarily a plug for women 🤣 You need to ev a real friend to her though.

The woman who introduced me to my wife sent 20+ women my way. My wife she sent me a picture and asked if I thought she was hot. Of course I said yes. She sent me a photo of a clearly busty, but modest redhead (redheads are my weakness and she knew that). I told her yes, I think she's hot and she responded "Great. Here's her number. Ask her out on a date".

It was that easy, and it wasn't the first time she did that for me.

HamzaAghaEfukt · 2024-02-03T07:08:21+00:00

You don’t talk about the most important thing: FACE

If you’re a woman or a blue pilled you most likely picturing a guy with a handsome face. Not an average face.

HamzaAghaEfukt · 2024-02-03T07:09:22+00:00

Men who are all of the above are beggars in the dating world. Women are incredibly shallow and elitist

Faykenews · 2024-02-03T14:18:03+00:00

....And they hated him because he told the truth

Men on this sub are probably below average which is why they are struggling

Comments

"Men on this sub are probably below average which is why they are struggling."

Title	Men on this sub are probably below average which is why they are struggling
Author	Ok_Cycle225
Upvotes	79
Comments	484
Date	February 2, 2024 10:25 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ah0lt1/men_on_this_sub_are_probably_below_average_which/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-on-this-sub-are-probably-below-average-which.1244408 https://theredarchive.com/post/1244408